Shannon airport

Londoncalling

- 2 take offs - you are forgetting the point here, there is a requirement for a hub airport, that requirement doesnt go away, not every airport can be connected to every location
- landing charges - i doubt your argument, every airline accounts for every cost
- london labour costs are significantly higher
- we agree on something - range isnt the issue a hub is a point of connectivity

infrastructure planning is all about the future, it is speculative but 10 years ago who ever would have thought of stopping in Dubai. It will probably need an airline like ryanair to make it work just like Delta did with Atlanta or emirates with Dubai. It has the potential to create tens of thousands of jobs, the benefit to the country would be enormous. Exploring it further cant hurt.

roundymac

Shannon as a hub, 50-60 years ago, yes, today no. Passengers want to fly direct to their destinations, not stopping off in some god forsaken place like Shannon, it's the same as asking people flying from Dub/Snn to JFK to transit through Gander. You know the answer you'd get to that idea.

Londoncalling

you are ignoring the fact that Heathrow has 20m+ passangers who use it as transit only, that means flying in, getting off the plane and getting on another plane. people go to heathrow because it is connected to other airports.

its an expensive hub, it has 45 min queing times to land and the airport is not efficient enough ofr transit passangers. 50 60 years ago the concept of hub airport didnt exist.

roundymac

Which one would you rather go to, I know I would go to LHR.

drdeadlift

Londoncalling wrote: »

you are ignoring the fact that Heathrow has 20m+ passangers who use it as transit only, that means flying in, getting off the plane and getting on another plane. people go to heathrow because it is connected to other airports.

its an expensive hub, it has 45 min queing times to land and the airport is not efficient enough ofr transit passangers. 50 60 years ago the concept of hub airport didnt exist.

That 20M figure is there as they are flying along with the rest of the people going to london which all together makes sense and profit for airports and airlines.

MRG77

"the fact that an airport would be built would massively increase the population base in that region"

Please explain this statement.

How would building an airport "massively increase the population base"??

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Londoncalling wrote: »

you are ignoring the fact that Heathrow has 20m+ passangers who use it as transit only, that means flying in, getting off the plane and getting on another plane.

And you are ignoring the fact that those 20m+ passengers are sharing planes with the other 50m who are starting or ending their journey in LHR. The reason (as people are trying to patiently explain to you) that the 20m+ go to LHR is because there are services there for 70m passengers.

That why Dublin could have some potential as a mini-hub. Because 18-20m people want to travel to and from Dublin, a person arriving there will find services available to a lot of UK and European destinations.

The other fact you're ignoring is that you are effectively just repeating the same unrealistic aspirations for Shannon that have dogged the country since the 1950s. Only, instead of building the aspiration around freight or terminating passengers, you are asserting that planes will flock there just because its a quiet airport.

There's no shortage of quiet airports.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castell%C3%B3n-Costa_Azahar_Airport

Londoncalling wrote: »

Dublin doesnt have the capacity to grow, nor does it have all of the benefits above.

That's just pure nonsense. Sure, we know that we can fit another 4 million passengers through the terminal - and that was even before T2.

highlydebased

irishbloke77 wrote: »

Hate to reopen an old wound, BUT, is Aer lingus getting rid of the Shannon-heathrow route again next summer? The site shows flights from LHR to Dublin, cork and Belfast, but no Shannon. Heard they had a tender in to operate heathrow-Edinburgh, could they be waiting to see if they can operate this route using the Shannon slots for heathrow?

They are changing the schedule- the route is not going anywhere

CelticRambler

roundymac wrote: »

Passengers want to fly direct to their destinations ...

This is the most overused nonsensical argument in the aviation industry. Yes, passengers want to fly direct - but they don't because the airlines don't let them. Instead - like was pointed out earlier in this thread - they use other forms of transport to travel overland for anything up to three hours, and that's considred reasonable.

Londoncalling's suggestion is the most commercially viable suggestion that's been put foward on this thread so far. Any British people I know hate trekking up to Heathrow for their t/a flights; any French people I know hate hauling themselves to CdG. Offer these passengers a 1h30-2h good value flight to SNN from their regional airport, customs pre-clearance and a well managed transfer experience and SNN's passenger numbers could easily be doubled.

Oh, and as for Gander? Watch that space ...

Tenger

I would agree that a decent offering could double the pax numbers at SNN. but londoncalling is looking for 20M pax within 10 years. Doesn't seem viable.

I do think that SNN as a hub could be viable with a very large network like Ryanair feeding into it. Look at EI,they have spent the last 2-3 years growing DUB as a hub,I'm not sure of their figures (I think their last results showed approx 35% of their T/A pax were transfers) but they are building transfer numbers on top of their existing point to point traffic. Londoncalling doesn't seem to realise that a hub usually requires a certain level of P2P traffic to give a base level of infrastructure which the transfer market builds onto.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

CelticRambler wrote: »

Londoncalling's suggestion is the most commercially viable suggestion that's been put foward on this thread so far.

Ah, be fair. The thread isn't that bad.

CelticRambler wrote: »

Any British people I know hate trekking up to Heathrow for their t/a flights; any French people I know hate hauling themselves to CdG. Offer these passengers a 1h30-2h good value flight to SNN from their regional airport, customs pre-clearance and a well managed transfer experience and SNN's passenger numbers could easily be doubled.

Sorry, but this is just the usual "I like Shannon because of the short queues" nonsense. The reason the queue are short is because there's no reason for most people to use it. It's a dead horse we've been flogging since 1959. Maybe its time to just pass on, and leave this kind of discussion behind.

Nothing to see here.

CelticRambler wrote: »

Oh, and as for Gander? Watch that space ...

What, this space?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gander_International_Airport#Future_growth

Officials at Gander International Airport have stated that the future for the airport is grim unless the federal government provides funding to cover costs. Currently over 50% of all aircraft operating from the air field are military, and do not pay landing fees. However, domestic passenger traffic increased by over seven percent in 2006, while weekly cargo flights from Iceland show some promise of expansion.

How long should we watch for?

urajoke

@Londoncalling do you not think that EVERY other airport in Europe with a long runway or any form of runway is trying very hard to be the Next big airport ? That is your competition right there.

CBP is not going to attract airlines on its own, in fact they're changing their shift patterns and BA is now considering going elsewhere as the CBP will be closed for BAW3 when it gets there. It suits BA to fly via Shannon at the moment as the pax can do something useful when the aircraft is being fuelled but if you take away that usefulness then BA will look at other options mainly based on costs. They will probably stay as BAW1 can still use the CBP so it will be cheaper to keep both in Shannon.

TPMP

A few days old but thought I'd post it. It seems Shannon is doing quite well on transatlantic routes this year.

Shannon Airport has welcomed today's Aer Lingus announcement that it is to increase it's existing Boston and New York flights to daily services next year as a significant early boost for 2014.
The Boston service will go daily from January 6, with New York from end of March.
Welcoming the announcement, SAA plc Chief Executive Neil Pakey said the decision confirms the very strong market there is for transatlantic services at Shannon.
"2013 is proving a very good year on transatlantic already at Shannon as summer services will see an increase of up to 25% in passenger numbers. To have Aer Lingus make this early commitment for 2014 is another hugely positive development for Shannon and, particularly, for passengers seeking access on transatlantic services.
"Shannon Airport, which is one of only two airports in the country with flights to and from the US and Canada, services a region from Cork right up to the North West so this is a very significant announcement. It will see Aer Lingus carry up to 50,000 additional passengers on transatlantic in 2014 so we thank them very much for this commitment," said Mr Pakey.

kub

That statement by Mr Pakey as above mentions Cork, it makes me wonder just how many passengers are coming up from there for t/a flights. Would that number justify a 757 service ex Cork t/a?

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Londoncalling wrote: »

The idea of a hub <...>
Dublin doesnt have the capacity<..>

Its a real case of an old thread made irrelevant by the passage of time. Ironically, I'd just opened the following thread today, because of recent announcements about DUB:

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

It seems to me a feasible strategy - using DUB as a hub for Trans-Atlantic services. <...>

A319er

I miss stopover city , being snared by the local FF council enrute to NYC , still time marches on.....

TPMP

Great news!

Shannon Airport's passenger numbers increased by 8% during June

18 July 2013

Shannon Airport’s passenger numbers have turned a significant corner, with figures for June showing an 8% increase on the same month last year.

The hugely positive development has seen month-over-month passenger numbers grow for the first time in five years at the airport and comes just six months after Shannon set out on life as an independent entity.

The increase has been most pronounced in US passenger numbers, which have shown a massive 38% hike on the same month last year, largely due to the commencement of a new Philadelphia service with US Airways on May 22nd and United Airlines Chicago service on June 6th.

It is the latest in a series of positive developments on transatlantic operations this year at Shannon. It follows the announcement two weeks ago by Aer Lingus that it is to increase frequency on its existing Boston and JFK New York flights next year, resulting in a 25% increase (50,000 passengers) on its transatlantic passengers at Shannon in 2014.

Overall, passenger numbers grew to 160,573 in June, from 148,531 last year. European services also contributed significantly to the increase, up by 18% on the same month last year. Major contributing factors here were the return of the popular Ryanair Alicante service, the airline’s additional frequencies on Palma and the commencement of Aer Lingus flights to Faro in the Algarve.

Meanwhile, 2012 Red C market research illustrates Shannon’s importance in terms of delivering US tourists, and, therefore, spend in counties from the West down to the South West and even up as far as the capital.

The research shows that of the US transatlantic passengers who arrived through Shannon last year, 46% holidayed in Clare, 43% in Kerry, 30% in Galway, 26% in Dublin, 24% in Cork and 17% in Limerick.

Welcoming the June passenger numbers increase, Shannon Airport Chief Executive Neil Pakey said: “We are very encouraged by this increase. It is down in no small way down to the hard work of our team in securing a range of new services and is a really good start to life as an independent airport.

“The growth in US passenger numbers is particularly encouraging for the regions we provide services for as tourism estimates are that US visitors spend, on average, 60% more than other tourists in Ireland.

“Our catchment includes some of Ireland’s leading tourism counties, so having a significantly improved range of services this year, especially on transatlantic routes, is extremely important to these counties.

“We are also encouraged by the number of Shannon passengers now visiting Dublin. The regions we serve offer a distinct Irish holiday experience but the quality of our road and public transport network now also enables visitors to easily access Dublin for one or two-night stays while basing themselves here.”

GCU Flexible Demeanour

TPMP wrote: »

Great news!

It is great news. I'd just wonder if he's picking the right vibe when he says

<...>the quality of our road and public transport network now also enables visitors to easily access Dublin<...>

But we'll see, over time, if Shannon gains more than it loses by stressing the accessibility of Dublin.

Franticfrank

I guess the emphasis on the connection to Dublin is good news for any Americans holidaying in Clare/Limerick/Galway who fancy a quick spin to the capital. You can drive from Limerick to Dublin in 2 hours now, no problem for Americans with a hired car. It isn't necessarily a bad thing. Better fly into Shannon for a 2 week holiday in Clare with a weekend in Dublin.

relaxed

Franticfrank wrote: »

I guess the emphasis on the connection to Dublin is good news for any Americans holidaying in Clare/Limerick/Galway who fancy a quick spin to the capital. You can drive from Limerick to Dublin in 2 hours now, no problem for Americans with a hired car. It isn't necessarily a bad thing. Better fly into Shannon for a 2 week holiday in Clare with a weekend in Dublin.

Indeed, most far away cities are worth visiting once or twice in a lifetime and spending 2-3 days is usually plenty, whereas you could visit the west of Ireland every few years (from North America) for a couple of weeks and even tag on a city break from Shannon to London or wherever, flying back from there.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Franticfrank wrote: »

It isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Oh, I'm not saying it is. It's just that landing at Shannon Airport isn't necessary if someone is really intent on spending two weeks in the West of Ireland (which, as we know, is a pattern of tourism that's been in decline for quite a while). Nearly 70% of West of Ireland tourists enter the country through an East coast gateway. Tbh, that's the reality that's lurking behind the announcement above.

Now, like I said, only time will tell if they've picked the right strategy to deal with that. I just wonder if, when you say that to an airline, they won't just say "why don't I just fly to Dubin, then, and maybe get year-round traffic."

Comhrá

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151488502025146&set=pb.369603635145.-2207520000.1374848431.&type=3&theater

crazygeryy

anyone know what the 4 prop airplane flying around the shannon Limerick area around 1ish today. look like it was training.

TPMP

crazygeryy wrote: »

anyone know what the 4 prop airplane flying around the shannon Limerick area around 1ish today. look like it was training.

I remember it flying over Limerick. I'm pretty sure it was a US airforce plane...probably a Hercules.

Shannonsider

Obviously flat out in work in Shannon :P but noticed a Monarch plane taking off every 10-15 minutes or so for the last 2-3 hours (think I noticed it going around on 2 occasions - that's why I think it's the same plane).

Presume its part of a maintenance check rather than a repeat emergency landing/take-off? Seems strange that a plane would get runway access for maintenance checks? Anyone shed any light or have any theory on this?

smcgiff

Shannonsider wrote: »

Obviously flat out in work in Shannon :P but noticed a Monarch plane taking off every 10-15 minutes or so for the last 2-3 hours (think I noticed it going around on 2 occasions - that's why I think it's the same plane).

Presume its part of a maintenance check rather than a repeat emergency landing/take-off? Seems strange that a plane would get runway access for maintenance checks? Anyone shed any light or have any theory on this?

Do they use the Monarch for training Touch and Gos?

Blue Punto

G-OZBU Airbus A321 training I believe

Jack1985

Some lucky lad carrying out touch and goes/MAPs before he get's his wings!

davo2001

Jack1985 wrote: »

Some lucky lad carrying out touch and goes/MAPs before he get's his wings!

Can see him from outside my office window in Shannon, he's taking off and banking hard left, if it was a passenger plane people would be vomiting all over the place, looks like hes having fun though.
Its a regular thing here and see planes doing it often enough.

Shannonsider

Thanks for the replies folks - twas like deja vu every few minutes!

I suppose Shannon accommodates training fairly well as it's not as busy as other airports. Do they block out a few hours of airspace or is the training usually done in between cemmercial flights carrying passengers?