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Donedeal and the likes
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OP if you are still looking to get a Bichon then i would recommend you do a lot of research (obviously your threads here have been a great start!) to familiarise youself with what a bichon should look like - it may seem obvious but there is seems to be a huge difference in a lot of the bichons i see, there is the long legs/long backs/long snouts - if you look at the breed standard you will get an idea of things like the equilateral spacing between the eyes and nose and the importantance of pigment. Steer clear off puppies with obvious tear stains - most bichons will suffer with staining but it usually starts with teething.
With dondeal I would immediately cross out the dogs that are advertised with bows tied around them and also the ads that cant even spell Bichon Frise :rolleyes: Also if you google Bichon Frise and familiarise yourself with the top images you will be surprised how often those photos will be used on ads (there was one stage that the same photo was being used over and over again by different "breeders" when i checked it was one of the first photos that showed up on google - yes i did report each and every one to donedeal :mad:)
Just to let you know i got my girl from a byb in the local free ads paper and she is a very healthy happy perfectly formed with lovely dark pigment and no tear stains - BUT my other dog that i got the same day from the same byb has been so unhealthy and badly bred i would never ever go down that route again - yes i saved an initial €300 but the vet has recouped that saving over and over again
not to mention the heartbreak of having a sick dog.
good luck with your search
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Honestly, I have no idea why these threads are tolerated here (while admitting that in the past I've participated in them). Not the OP's original enquiry, which was reasonable but the polarizing debate it's become. I appreciate that several of the mods for this (and other) of the forums have strong views on this but the threads always degenerate into these 'pedigree versus everything else' debates which anyone who owns an 'everything else' ends up taking personally since sweeping generalisations (without factual but with anecdotal evidence) get made which hurt feelings. The pedigree faction on the other hand feel that the expenses incurred in ethically breeding a 'pb' dog is warranted and the only way puppies should be produced. In the end this isn't the purpose of the OP's question and it isn't the purpose of the vast majority of the threads.
These threads would be much shorter if people (on both sides) restricted themselves to provable facts (with references) rather then emotion or opinion. It would also be much more pertinent to the OP's query.
To close off - here are our two dogs, one a 'cross/mongrel/whatever' and the other is a pure breed - both are wonderful, willful and entertaining mutts without whom our lives would be poorer
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Em, last time i looked this was a Discussions board, not a facts board so there is nothing wrong with people giving their thoughts and opinions on things, theres no law against it so i dont see what the problem is by doing this.
This thread is not Pedigree v's Mongrels at all so not sure how you are getting that idea from it??
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Join Date:Posts: 10008
Mate--you have me lost-totally lost.Ive read your posts a few times and Im confused with what they have to do with this thread.
The thread is about whether or not to purchase a dog from an advertising website.Whether thats a pedigree or not is not the issue.
This thread is not about pedigree versus mongrel.
The pedigree versus mongrel is another thread for a different days discussion.Honestly, I have no idea why these threads are tolerated here (while admitting that in the past I've participated in them). Not the OP's original enquiry, which was reasonable but the polarizing debate it's become. I appreciate that several of the mods for this (and other) of the forums have strong views on this but the threads always degenerate into these 'pedigree versus everything else' debates which anyone who owns an 'everything else' ends up taking personally since sweeping generalisations (without factual but with anecdotal evidence) get made which hurt feelings. The pedigree faction on the other hand feel that the expenses incurred in ethically breeding a 'pb' dog is warranted and the only way puppies should be produced. In the end this isn't the purpose of the OP's question and it isn't the purpose of the vast majority of the threads.
These threads would be much shorter if people (on both sides) restricted themselves to provable facts (with references) rather then emotion or opinion. It would also be much more pertinent to the OP's query.
To close off - here are our two dogs, one a 'cross/mongrel/whatever' and the other is a pure breed - both are wonderful, willful and entertaining mutts without whom our lives would be poorerHrm - don't want to get into specifics but...
A variety of the people posting in this thread have made references to things being facts (please feel free to go back through for instances of this), when, in fact, the statements being made are opinions or beliefs, abet with anecdotal evidence but no statistical proof. Beliefs are subject to personal bias, facts (within certain constraints) are not. Beliefs general 'discussions' which escalate, facts are static regardless of whether we like them or not. Basically, many of the posts state "X is a fact, which cannot be denied" when X is the posters belief, not a fact. So, either post things as opinions and have debate or just post facts I guess is my point, don't play mix and match with the two. Many of the forums here remove any post which says 'X is a fact' unless the poster can actually back that up with references, a very responsible attitude and one which I'd love to see adopted here.
Mongrel versus pb - many of the posts refer to pedigree, a history of the dogs lineage, maintained in Ireland by one of two registries. Neither registry recognise mongrels so by inference I can determine that if someone is referring to a dog with pedigree they are excluding dogs without that recorded ancestry. When a whole bunch of the posts previously made in this thread have pedigree as a condition of the dog being discussed and non-pedigree being implied to be an undesirable trait I arrive at the conclusion that we're talking about pure breed v mongrel - not unreasonable I would have said.0 -
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The two part second post where I say in my third post - my bad on the pb thing, not going to post examples of the first paragraph because it came to my attention that it was the same 2-3 people who kept making statements I felt were either misleading, wrong, unsubstantiated or a case of someone feeling so strongly about a subject that they've presented their beliefs as fait acompli facts and then based their argument on them?
Aye, that's the one, and I'm still not going to post them because now it would seem even more like I was attempting to target specific posters 0 -
The two part second post where I say in my third post - my bad on the pb thing, not going to post examples of the first paragraph because it came to my attention that it was the same 2-3 people who kept making statements I felt were either misleading, wrong, unsubstantiated or a case of someone feeling so strongly about a subject that they've presented their beliefs as fait acompli facts and then based their argument on them?
Aye, that's the one, and I'm still not going to post them because now it would seem even more like I was attempting to target specific posters
If you quote the posts you have a problem with maybe the poster can clarify their post for you, you could maybe even discusss them. Other than that I don't see why you are bringing the posts up.0 -
The two part second post where I say in my third post - my bad on the pb thing, not going to post examples of the first paragraph because it came to my attention that it was the same 2-3 people who kept making statements I felt were either misleading, wrong, unsubstantiated or a case of someone feeling so strongly about a subject that they've presented their beliefs as fait acompli facts and then based their argument on them?
Aye, that's the one, and I'm still not going to post them because now it would seem even more like I was attempting to target specific posters
What does the bit in bold even mean
Please quote the posts so we can see what you are on about, im completely lost If you arent prepared to do this then we havent a clue who or what you are on about... 0 -
Join Date:Posts: 10008
Please quote the posts so we can see what you are on about, im completely lost If you arent prepared to do this then we havent a clue who or what you are on about...
Please do as Im completely lost aswell.Maybe with some quotes your posts will have meaning but until then myself and Id say most of the posters here are completely stumped.0 -
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Explained I hope?
Each of the posts up until now was, genuinely, if mistakenly in the case of half of the first post, actually trying to reduce the amount of hyperbole being introduced here Irush, at this point I seem to actually stimulating it - the exact opposite of my original aim. By delving into particulars I feel I'd only contribute further so with respect, no. If you're curious please go through a second time (as I did), perhaps you'll view things with a more critical (in terms of provenance) eye or perhaps you'll feel I've misunderstood, or even that I'm just a loon. In any case it's in your hands.
Huh???? 0 -
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This seems to be turning into two different things - one of which is a case where I seem to have prodded the sleeping bear >.<
However, as instructed by HR and feeling that it's unlikely that Andreac will take it the wrong way, the examples I PM'd to the interested were:
Poster1: If you buy from an amature breeder/byb it doesn't automatically mean you'll have health problems futher down the line.
Poster2: But the chances are very high the dog will or could be sick no reference for this as proof
Poster2 later: I've seen the results several times over of pups and dogs that were bought from byb's and puppy farmers anedotal, not imperical
Poster2 again: Of course, anything is possible. I never said all litters. Its not scaremongering, its reality, end of. the thrust of of the discussion at this point was that it was unlikely in the poster opinion to get a healthy dog from the likes of Donedeal etc, once again, based on their personal experience not on any published references. While it may well be true, it's not proven until it's proven
No link or other actual evidence produced to support any of these views. I appreciate that people are very committed to this subject, I get that it's very emotive but opinion != fact. This isn't intended as an attack on anyone or directed at any particular poster - these were the first examples I found dipping in at around page 9 to look for examples to PM.
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On the second matter I'm not going to debate it further HR, I didn't intend to troll and if you felt I was, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. Any of the old folks on the site who know me in RL will tell you that generally I don't indulge in that type of behaviour - it's fattening and while I enjoy it sometimes I couldn't do it all the time 0 -
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