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Donedeal and the likes

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    #32
    andreac
    Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    ppink wrote: »
    What does the IKC cert actually tell people. It is not a record of a healthy dog is it? or do IKC registered breeders have to have these tests done to be registered in the firat place?

    IKC certs, literally only have the pedigree of the dog on it and who bred it, date of birth of the dog etc. Its no indication of anything else but lineage and breeder details and dogs details.

    Breeders do not have to have any tests done be registered, they just must microchip the pups, thats all.


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    #33
    Shammy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Shammy


    ppink wrote: »
    What does the IKC cert actually tell people. It is not a record of a healthy dog is it? or do IKC registered breeders have to have these tests done to be registered in the firat place?

    Nothing , imo if the ikc had laws instead of a silly code of ethics it would stop alot . The ikc doesnt even follow its own code of ethics .
    Money money and more money.


    I got a female gsd from donedeal a few years back , both parents health checked , hip/elbow scored . The father was sg at that years irish sieger and the mother was a vice world sieger daughter .

    While I wouldn't reccommend buying from donedeal , not all pups for sale are bad , you just need to be experienced to spot a good breeder from a bad one. :)


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    #34
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    andreac wrote: »
    Sorry but that is not enough, far from it....


    ...A byb doesnt do this or try to ensure any of this, they just breed their pet because they are a pedigree dog and can make money from them, no other reasons.
    ...and while this is true, it doesn't mean the pups produced are disasters.

    The OP is looking for a family pet. Assuming they have no intention to breed that pet, then , more than liikely that's all they'll need to do. They're not looking to show the dog; they're not looking for the "perfect" specimen of breed according to whomever. It a family pet, a companion they're looking for, and it's a pet/compainion they'll get!

    Listen, I knew what I was saying wouldn't be popular, but OP if you're still reading it all depends on what you want. Just don't buy from someone who'll "meet you halfway" or who can't show you the bitch because she's "resting" or who's hitting you up with excuses.


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    #35
    Killme00
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    The inferior breed dog will probably end up costing you more in medical bills in the long run. Better to pay the premium for a good quality IKC pup. Wait and get the quality or pick another breed closer to your budget. Maybe the breed have a rescue society with good quality dogs looking for a home.

    I will say IKC does not guarantee quality but it should.

    Horse**** of the highest order.

    "The inferior breed dog will probably end up costing you more in medical bills in the long run."

    LOL. Scare tactics and nonsense.

    andreac wrote: »
    Sorry, but they are cheap for a reason...

    The reason they are cheap is because they are badly bred, bred with little or no thought put into health testing the sire and dam and so on.

    A good breeder charges more as they are good pedigrees, good examples of the breed, health tested etc and this all costs money to carry out, hence why most so called breeders charge less, because they do none of this and just churn out puppies and try and make as much money as possible with as little over heads as possible.

    Just because a good breeder charges more, doesnt mean all the pups are for show homes. It means they are bred very well, healthy etc..
    Also, just to note, not all puppies in a little would be show quality anyway and most breeders will only usually have a small percentage in a litter which would be suitable for showing so they rest go to good pet homes that wont be showing.
    The majority of puppies for sale online are from back yard breeders and puppies farmers so i really would steer clear. If you arent prepared to pay for a well bred pup, then i suggest you look into rescuing a dog as buying cheap is a recipe for disaster....

    Elitest bull**** attitude as i'd expect from this board. Just because a puppy doesnt come form the IKC doesnt mean they are badly bred. Also just because a puppy comes from the IKC doesnt mean its a good dog.

    The attitude in thsi thread stinks. For the record, I absolutely abhore the industry of puppy farming. Someone already mentioned on this thread that going to see where a puppy was born, the sire and the dam is enough. It might not be in your eyes, but it's a pretty dam good step.

    IKC does not guarantee excellence and in several cases results in niave people overpaying by humdreds of euros for an animal.


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    #36
    Killme00
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    andreac wrote: »
    A good breeder will health test their dogs first and ensure the dog they are breeding from are suitable and a good example of the breed that have little or no faults that should stop them from being bred from. They will show or work their dogs and prove them worthy dogs to be bred from.

    A byb doesnt do this or try to ensure any of this, they just breed their pet because they are a pedigree dog and can make money from them, no other reasons.

    And how can you tell a good breeder form bad? It cant be based on some bull**** membership of an assosciation of arseholes


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    #37
    star-pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,429 ✭✭✭✭star-pants


    Killme00 wrote: »
    And how can you tell a good breeder form bad? It cant be based on some bull**** membership of an assosciation of arseholes

    Killme00 if you could please tone down your language a little, you're coming across rather aggressive, whilst there isn't a rule against bad language it is asked that it's not used excessively. You can get your point across just as well without it.


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    #38
    Killme00
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    star-pants wrote: »
    Killme00 if you could please tone down your language a little, you're coming across rather aggressive, whilst there isn't a rule against bad language it is asked that it's not used excessively. You can get your point across just as well without it.

    No, i'll respond in any manner i see fit as long as it's within the rules. My tone is fine.


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    #39
    andreac
    Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    Killme00 wrote: »
    And how can you tell a good breeder form bad? It cant be based on some bull**** membership of an assosciation of arseholes

    :rolleyes:

    If you havent the decency to reply properly and in a nice manner then im not wasting my time commenting on your posts...


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    #40
    ISDW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭ISDW


    Killme00 wrote: »
    And how can you tell a good breeder form bad? It cant be based on some bull**** membership of an assosciation of arseholes

    Can you please show me where anybody on this forum has ever said that having a pup that is IKC registered, or from a breeder that is a member of an association guarantees a healthy, well adjusted pup?

    I know you won't be able to show me, because nobody has ever said it, unfortunately you and other people see what they want in posts on here.

    Nobody is elitist, how on earth is it elitist to promote healthy, well adjusted animals to be pets, show or working dogs? If people were elitist, they would say buy an IKC registered dog, don't buy anything else, that is not what most of the advice given on here is. Its about buying from a responsible, reputable breeder. I get so fed up repeating this on here, nobody is saying that just because someone has a champion dog, or belongs to an association that they are reputable. But, someone who properly health tests their breeding stock, ensures that the puppies are healthy and very well looked after, socialises them properly and offers a contract for the whole of the dog's life - is a reputable breeder, regardless of whether or not their dog is a champion or not.

    Unless you do your research properly, how do you know that the adult dogs that you are seeing with a litter of pups actually are the sire and dam? Actually, nobody ever knows, unless they do dna testing that the sire is the sire, you just have to find someone that you trust that this is the case, and that trust is usually built up by spending time researching your breed, not just a week on the internet, but going to shows or working trials etc, getting to know people, see how they treat their dogs, and getting a real feel for someone.

    But hey, thats fairly hard work, so its just easier to look on the internet and buy a pup from someone that looks the part.


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    #41
    andreac
    Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    Zulu wrote: »
    ...and while this is true, it doesn't mean the pups produced are disasters.

    The OP is looking for a family pet. Assuming they have no intention to breed that pet, then , more than liikely that's all they'll need to do. They're not looking to show the dog; they're not looking for the "perfect" specimen of breed according to whomever. It a family pet, a companion they're looking for, and it's a pet/compainion they'll get!

    Listen, I knew what I was saying wouldn't be popular, but OP if you're still reading it all depends on what you want. Just don't buy from someone who'll "meet you halfway" or who can't show you the bitch because she's "resting" or who's hitting you up with excuses.

    Zulu, but it doesnt matter if they want a pet instead of a show dog, thats not going to stop the puppy getting Hip Dysplacia and so on if the parents arent health tested.
    A family pet should be bred with the same care and attention to health testing as any puppy, whether it be for show or whatever, it still needs to bred by healthy, disease free parents, thats what im trying to say.


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    #42
    star-pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,429 ✭✭✭✭star-pants


    Killme00 wrote: »
    No, i'll respond in any manner i see fit as long as it's within the rules. My tone is fine.

    It is actually in our charter that rudeness/abuse/swearing will not be tolerated. So I shall say it now to make it clear - it won't be tolerated in this thread or in this forum.


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    #43
    Killme00
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    ISDW wrote: »
    If people were elitist, they would say buy an IKC registered dog, don't buy anything else, that is not what most of the advice given on here is...

    That's exactly what several posters like Andrac are saying on this thread.

    What we're seeing form this thread is IKC good, donedeal and everything else bad.
    ISDW wrote: »
    But hey, thats fairly hard work, so its just easier to look on the internet and buy a pup from someone that looks the part.

    What? No-one suggested doing that. Sensible people are suggesting visiting the home where the pup was born, checking out the sire and the dam and the condition of the pup. Who buys a pup off the internet anyway? No-one is suggesting that.

    Since when does an IKC cert guarantee anything anyway?


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    #44
    Vel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭Vel


    Shammy wrote: »

    I got a female gsd from donedeal a few years back , both parents health checked , hip/elbow scored . The father was sg at that years irish sieger and the mother was a vice world sieger daughter .

    Just a question in relation to this. From the threads I have read on this matter, if a breeder is considered good and are breeding for the right reasons, with all the associated health checks then they would not need to advertise any litters on DD as they would generally have a waiting list of people waiting for their pups.

    So, while I'm not questioning whether they are a good breeder or not I am wondering why you think someone like them would even need to advertise on DD?


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    #45
    ISDW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭ISDW


    Killme00 wrote: »
    That's exactly what several posters like Andrac are saying on this thread.

    What we're seeing form this thread is IKC good, donedeal and everything else bad.



    What? No-one suggested doing that. Sensible people are suggesting visiting the home where the pup was born, checking out the sire and the dam and the condition of the pup. Who buys a pup off the internet anyway? No-one is suggesting that.

    Since when does an IKC cert guarantee anything anyway?

    No, what they're saying is an IKC registered, health tested, well socialised pup.

    Don't like to point out the obvious, but donedeal is an internet site. Can you please tell me how I would know that the adult dogs that are being shown to people in a home are the sire and dam.

    Again, can you please show me where anybody has ever said that an IKC cert guarantees anything?


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    #46
    andreac
    Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    Killme00 wrote: »
    That's exactly what several posters like Andrac are saying on this thread.

    What we're seeing form this thread is IKC good, donedeal and everything else bad.



    What? No-one suggested doing that. Sensible people are suggesting visiting the home where the pup was born, checking out the sire and the dam and the condition of the pup. Who buys a pup off the internet anyway? No-one is suggesting that.

    Since when does an IKC cert guarantee anything anyway?

    Have you even read the whole thread?? Where on earth did i say IKC guarantees a health dog, please show me.

    IKC isnt the issue, someone asked what IKC is and we told them, we never even mentioned it guarantees a healthy dog, really think you need to read this thread properly first.


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    #47
    Killme00
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    star-pants wrote: »
    It is actually in our charter that rudeness/abuse/swearing will not be tolerated. So I shall say it now to make it clear - it won't be tolerated in this thread or in this forum.

    Calm yourself down there. Show me where i've abused anyone or sworn or been rude for that matter? Thats right, you cant. If you dont like the tone of my debating style, dont read it or at very least dont let it get to you. If you dont like the style of a post, then that's your problem. Go ahead and contact a cmod for a reality check. Maybe untwist your knickers while you're at it.

    Oh and look, no abuse, rudeness or swearing!!!


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    #48
    Killme00
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    ISDW wrote: »
    No, what they're saying is an IKC registered, health tested, well socialised pup.

    Don't like to point out the obvious, but donedeal is an internet site. Can you please tell me how I would know that the adult dogs that are being shown to people in a home are the sire and dam.

    Again, can you please show me where anybody has ever said that an IKC cert guarantees anything?

    And how does an IKC cert guarantee that's the dog you're actaully getting. IKC certification is just another form of cronyism and pushing up prices.

    Only an idiot would belive that a higher price guarantees quality.

    Oh and i hate to point out the obvious, but you dont buy from donedeal. It's not EBAY for dogs, but simply a middle man for putting a seller and buyer together. The buyer can still back out when they meet the seller.


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    #49
    Killme00
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    andreac wrote: »
    Have you even read the whole thread?? Where on earth did i say IKC guarantees a health dog, please show me.

    IKC isnt the issue, someone asked what IKC is and we told them, we never even mentioned it guarantees a healthy dog, really think you need to read this thread properly first.


    Typing quickly before she of the twisted knickers bans me, but you need to go back and read your own commebst in the thread. You are suggesting to the OP that if they cant afford to buy from an IKC registered breeder that it's not worth it.


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    #50
    star-pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,429 ✭✭✭✭star-pants


    Killme00 wrote: »
    Horse**** of the highest order.
    ...
    Elitest bull**** attitude as i'd expect from this board.
    Killme00 wrote: »
    And how can you tell a good breeder form bad? It cant be based on some bull**** membership of an assosciation of arseholes

    Killme00 wrote: »
    Calm yourself down there. Show me where i've abused anyone or sworn or been rude for that matter? Thats right, you cant. If you dont like the tone of my debating style, dont read it or at very least dont let it get to you. If you dont like the style of a post, then that's your problem. Go ahead and contact a cmod for a reality check. Maybe untwist your knickers while you're at it.

    Oh and look, no abuse, rudeness or swearing!!!

    I've highlighted above where you swore just to make it clear for you.
    Your posts were also reported for being rude / aggressive. I'm a mod of this forum so I'm required to read all posts and to respond to reported posts. And as for 'not being rude' I'll politely agree to disagree regarding your last few comments to me and also insulting people on this forum in general with your sweeping statements. If you wish to discuss this further do so by PM and not on thread so as not to derail this topic any further. Or maybe I can get a CMod to contact you if you'd prefer. Let me know by PM.


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    #51
    Killme00
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    andreac wrote: »
    Sorry, but they are cheap for a reason...

    The reason they are cheap is because they are badly bred, bred with little or no thought put into health testing the sire and dam and so on.

    Here's you saying it.

    andreac wrote: »
    The majority of puppies for sale online are from back yard breeders and puppies farmers so i really would steer clear.

    Do you have evidence to back up this nonsense?


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    #52
    ISDW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭ISDW


    Killme00 wrote: »
    And how does an IKC cert guarantee that's the dog you're actaully getting. IKC certification is just another form of cronyism and pushing up prices.

    Only an idiot would belive that a higher price guarantees quality.

    Oh and i hate to point out the obvious, but you dont buy from donedeal. It's not EBAY for dogs, but simply a middle man for putting a seller and buyer together. The buyer can still back out when they meet the seller.

    Is there any chance that you will actually go and read people's posts, or are you just going to keep on trolling?

    No, the IKC certificate guarantees absolutely nothing, it doesn't guarantee that the parents are the parents, or that the dog is the breed it says, nowhere have I EVER said that it does.

    Donedeal is an internet site that negates the need for people to do proper research on a breeder. Look it up on line, go and meet the breeder, come home with a puppy.

    If I wanted to buy a siberian husky now, there is only one kennel on the island of Ireland that I would go to. This I have learnt from lots of research and getting to know lots of people, not just looking on the internet and seeing that someone has pups that are IKC registered available and there are champions in the bloodline. I know who the parents would be, I would know what their working pedigree is, and that of their parents, and their parents, because I trust the breeders and I know that they just breed for themselves, but very seldom will you get a litter of 1 or 2 dogs. I also know that I am very, very lucky that they would consider me good enough for one of their pups. That to me is a proper, good, reputable breeder.


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    #53
    Killme00
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    star-pants wrote: »
    I've highlighted above where you swore just to make it clear for you.
    Your posts were also reported for being rude / aggressive. I'm a mod of this forum so I'm required to read all posts and to respond to reported posts. And as for 'not being rude' I'll politely agree to disagree regarding your last few comments to me and also insulting people on this forum in general with your sweeping statements. If you wish to discuss this further do so by PM and not on thread so as not to derail this topic any further. Or maybe I can get a CMod to contact you if you'd prefer. Let me know by PM.

    You really need to look into the meaning of swearing. Bull**** or horse**** isnt swearing, it's similar to manure or perhaps you are being willfully obtuse. I'd also like to point out that i havent insulted anyone of your forum. And another thing, aggression is interpreted, not intended. Hopefully you can undertsand that. If not, then you really shouldnt be a mod.


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    #54
    Killme00
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    ISDW wrote: »
    If I wanted to buy a siberian husky now, there is only one kennel on the island of Ireland that I would go to. This I have learnt from lots of research and getting to know lots of people, not just looking on the internet and seeing that someone has pups that are IKC registered available and there are champions in the bloodline. I know who the parents would be, I would know what their working pedigree is, and that of their parents, and their parents, because I trust the breeders and I know that they just breed for themselves, but very seldom will you get a litter of 1 or 2 dogs. I also know that I am very, very lucky that they would consider me good enough for one of their pups. That to me is a proper, good, reputable breeder.

    That YOU would go to. What gives you the right or the IKC or Andreac the right to say who is and who isnot a reptable breeder? Nothing, it's your own preconcived notions of price deciding quality. You must only buy brand names because evrything else is ****.


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    #55
    ISDW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭ISDW


    Killme00 wrote: »
    That YOU would go to. What gives you the right or the IKC or Andreac the right to say who is and who isnot a reptable breeder? Nothing, it's your own preconcived notions of price deciding quality. You must only buy brand names because evrything else is ****.

    Now you're just losing the plot altogether, your trolling skills are slipping.

    Puppy farmers would charge more than these breeders, because these breeders don't breed for a profit, they breed, as I've already explained, for themselves, but very seldom will a bitch have a litter of 1 or 2, so they find good homes for the other pups. I have known them to give pups away to the right homes, just because they know that the dogs will have a fantastic life. But that doesn't fit in with your little scenario does it, so no doubt you will have witty reply for us all now that will make no sense whatsoever.

    You still haven't answered the question as to how people know the parents they see with a litter of pups are actually the parents.


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    #56
    g'em
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,819 ✭✭✭✭g'em


    Killme00 has been banned from the forum for a month for... well for being a dick. Let's get back on topic now please folks and not respond to his posts any further :)


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    #57
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    andreac wrote: »
    Zulu, but it doesnt matter if they want a pet instead of a show dog, thats not going to stop the puppy getting Hip Dysplacia and so on if the parents arent health tested.
    A family pet should be bred with the same care and attention to health testing as any puppy, whether it be for show or whatever, it still needs to bred by healthy, disease free parents, thats what im trying to say.
    I absolutely accept all that! :o

    All I'm saying is, that you can get all that without paying a large premium from a byb. Just because the hips haven't been scored (for example seeing as you mentioned it) doesn't mean the dog will have hip problems.
    Chances are it won't.

    It's like buying a car second hand. Go to a dealer, pay a premium & get a guarantee. Doesn't mean you're guaranteed a lemon from a private sale.


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    #58
    CardinalJ
    Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭CardinalJ


    g'em wrote: »
    Killme00 has been banned from the forum for a month for... well for being a dick. Let's get back on topic now please folks and not respond to his posts any further :)

    Funniest ban reason ive seen in a while.


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    #59
    andreac
    Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    Zulu wrote: »
    I absolutely accept all that! :o

    All I'm saying is, that you can get all that without paying a large premium from a byb. Just because the hips haven't been scored (for example seeing as you mentioned it) doesn't mean the dog will have hip problems.
    Chances are it won't.

    It's like buying a car second hand. Go to a dealer, pay a premium & get a guarantee. Doesn't mean you're guaranteed a lemon from a private sale.

    Bu wouldnt it be better for the dogs and the potential puppies to have less of a chance of suffering from these conditions if they are health tested? The risk is higher if these tests arent done and i wouldnt be willing to take the chance. If i can try and reduce a dogs potential suffering by ensuring i buy health tested dogs then i think thats thinking of the dogs welfare which can only be a good thing.


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    #60
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Of course it would! But alas we dont live in a perfect world...


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    #61
    ISDW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭ISDW


    Zulu wrote: »
    Of course it would! But alas we dont live in a perfect world...

    Do you vaccinate your dogs? If you do, why do you? Why don't you just let them take their chance that they won't develop a life threatening illness?

    I'm not attacking you, just hoping to continue the debate and discuss it, as to me, trying to buy a healthy pup, and keeping a dog healthy for its life are the same thing, so interested in why people would see it as being different, if they do.


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