Heineken Cup - General Discussion Thread

[Jackass]

My favourite French team and team I want to see win the Amlin in action tonight.

Stade Francais Paris

15 Djibril Camara 14 Paul Sackey 13 Morgan Turinui 12 Paul Williams 11 Julien Arias 10 Felipe Contepomi 9 Julien Dupuy 1 Rodrigo Roncero 2 Dimitri Szarzewski 3 Rabah Slimani 4 Anton van Zyl 5 Pascal Pape 6 George Smith 7 Antoine Burban 8 Sergio Parisse (capt)

16 Laurent Sempere 17 Olivier Milloud 18 Stan Wright 19 Alexandre Flanquart 20 David Lyons 21 Pierre Rabadan 22 Jerome Fillol 23 Hugo Bonneval

Exeter Chiefs

15 Phil Dollman 14 Gonzalo Camacho 13 Bryan Rennie 12 Jason Shoemark 11 Matt Jess 10 Ignacio Mieres 9 Haydn Thomas 1 Hoani Tui 2 Chris Whitehead 3 Craig Mitchell 4 Tom Hayes (capt) 5 James Hanks 6 Tom Johnson 7 James Scaysbrook 8 Richard Baxter

16 Neil Clark 17 Ben Moon 18 Chris Budgen 19 Alastair Muldowney 20 Ben White 21 Kevin Barrett 22 Gareth Steenson 23 Sireli Naqelevuki


Should be a decent game, I'd expect Stade to prevail. Interestingly Exeter look like they could well be in Heineken Cup next season, wouldn't be the worst English team to get in your group!

Amazotheamazing

JustinDee wrote: »

Hard to say. I watched analysis of Donncha O'Callaghan's games and he scored well in almost every facet required of him. His experience is also vital. I've seen people lambast his performances yet unable or unwilling to actually pinpoint with a time, this littany of disastrous errors.

Would probably have selected Dan Tuohy ahead of Mike McCarthy in retrospect.

DOC has just become one of those players (perhaps like d'Arcy though I'm guilty myself) who people want to blame for things. As ever he's a workhorse who's usually there or thereabouts in the stats, second to arrive etc.

skregs

I think everyone is forgetting that gypsy curse Kidney has that means if he picks anyone under the age of 25 from Leinster or Ulster, he'll die.

That's why Simon Zebo is more likely to get picked at Scrum Half for Ireland than Paul Marshall

leftleg

JustinDee wrote: »

Hard to say. I watched analysis of Donncha O'Callaghan's games and he scored well in almost every facet required of him. His experience is also vital. I've seen people lambast his performances yet unable or unwilling to actually pinpoint with a time, this littany of disastrous errors.

Would probably have selected Dan Tuohy ahead of Mike McCarthy in retrospect.

Were those analysis tapes from 2006 or 2008 because since then hes been pretty crap;

His clearing of rucks is laughably underpowered
He cant last longer than 45/50 minutes
He cant carry
His tackle count is miniscule

Will I keep going; hes been a deccie favourite since he was u19

Hagz

Dan Tuohy is 26yrs old and has been in ferocious form this season with Ulster.

It's not about whether DOC was playing to an acceptable level during the 6N, it's that a younger more in form player was forced to sit in his shadow. Not even that but he was snubbed for Mike McCarthy.

A second-row partnership of O'Connell and Ryan with Tuohy on the bench is what we should have seen.

Riskymove

MikeCork2009 wrote: »

I know ERC says tickets for semis will go on sale to clubs this weekend and then it's expected extra will be made available to public. Just wondering if anyone would know, from experience, when tickets may be available through ticketmaster?

which semi?

Teferi

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

DOC has just become one of those players (perhaps like d'Arcy though I'm guilty myself) who people want to blame for things. As ever he's a workhorse who's usually there or thereabouts in the stats, second to arrive etc.

I actually seen very little blame laid at DOC's feet. From the coherent posters it was more a case of "You can never doubt his commitment to the jersey and he will always put in the work for you but there is a least one person more in form than him at the moment".

It wasn't a case of looking at the stats and ticking the boxes, it was a case of actually helping the team progress.

totallegend

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

DOC has just become one of those players (perhaps like d'Arcy though I'm guilty myself) who people want to blame for things. As ever he's a workhorse who's usually there or thereabouts in the stats, second to arrive etc.

I think in the past, DOC has shipped a lot of flak for conceding penalties and to his credit, he's cleaned up that aspect of his game immensely, so I don't think it's valid any more.

My problem with DOC is that he 'does the job', 'he doesn't let anyone down'. That is NOT enough for an international team with genuine ambitions of winning the 6N and doing well at the World Cup. Particularly when you have Donnacha Ryan displacing him at club level and then coming on for DOC at 50-60 minutes and tearing around the pitch, showing what a weapon a strong, mobile second-row can be.

D'Arcy has probably been lucky in that McFadden hasn't been given the chance to show what he can do in the 12 jersey like Ryan has, when D'Arcy's been hauled off it's been for the ROG-Sexton axis which is no solution to the 12 jersey issue and IMO did not even work well in the games in which it was tried.

It's not enough to just tog out and not mess up, you have to make a positive contribution and show that you're the BEST option, not just a good option.

It should not take a meltdown of 'TOL vs France' proportions before we look at new players, but unfortunately that seems to be the situation.

justsomebloke

MikeCork2009 wrote: »

I know ERC says tickets for semis will go on sale to clubs this weekend and then it's expected extra will be made available to public. Just wondering if anyone would know, from experience, when tickets may be available through ticketmaster?

I'd say it will be this weekend/Monday morning, The public ticket sale for HEC semi finals are generally a cluster **** with tickets going on sale generally before Sunday QF away supporters would of had a chance to get home.

JustinDee

leftleg wrote: »

Were those analysis tapes from 2006 or 2008 because since then hes been pretty crap;

His clearing of rucks is laughably underpowered
He cant last longer than 45/50 minutes
He cant carry
His tackle count is miniscule

Will I keep going; hes been a deccie favourite since he was u19

He marshals rucks pretty very actually.
Let me know your tallies of his tackle count and tackle assists per game. Make sure you're not using ESPN's website now, as tends to be inaccurate and actually very often unreliable.

The analyses I referred to were of the Six Nations and RWC games.

Otacon

JustinDee wrote: »

Hard to say. I watched analysis of Donncha O'Callaghan's games and he scored well in almost every facet required of him. His experience is also vital. I've seen people lambast his performances yet unable or unwilling to actually pinpoint with a time, this littany of disastrous errors.

Would probably have selected Dan Tuohy ahead of Mike McCarthy in retrospect.

Genuinely, thanks for the reply. I didn't think you would [or more accurately, could].

While I have always liked DOC, his workrate appears to be diminishing in the final acts of the game. I could be wrong but anytime I was watching the Ireland games this year, from the start of the second half, I just did not notice DOC put his hand up to carry, or compete at ruck time.

This is also true of his form at Munster, whenever he has started. If he was going to get picked, I would have had him on the bench, with that 'first half performance' coming on with 20-25 minutes left.

JustinDee wrote: »

He marshals rucks pretty very actually.
Let me know your tallies of his tackle count and tackle assists per game. Make sure you're not using ESPN's website now, as tends to be inaccurate and actually very often unreliable.

The analyses I referred to were of the Six Nations and RWC games.

Do you have links to these stats? Would be interesting reading.

leftleg

JustinDee wrote: »

He marshals rucks pretty very actually.
Let me know your tallies of his tackle count and tackle assists per game. Make sure you're not using ESPN's website now, as tends to be inaccurate and actually very often unreliable.

The analyses I referred to were of the Six Nations and RWC games.

Put them up so; They should prove me wrong and that hes a tackling carrying machine and that everyone including the coaches are wrong to take him off early in every single match.

I don't have stats, in DOCs case i usually don't need them. care to refresh my memory on how much of a machine he actually is.

Hagz

It's a bit rich to ask for evidence from people to back up their point without doing the same for your points.

He scored well where? I'd imagine his meters made with ball in hand would have barely reach 10 meters. His tackle count I'd imagine was solid, not as high as Ferris or O'Brien, but maybe in and around the same as Heaslip's and O'Connell's. He wasn't impressive in the line-outs, I don't recall him stealing a single ball whereas Ryan stole several.

What exactly is required of him? It seems like all he has to do is bring along his experience and do the infamous grunt work. I don't buy it. It's not a valid reason for him to be picked ahead of Ryan, who showed buckets more grunt than he did in his short cameos and was much more impressive in the line-out.

CIARAN_BOYLE

JustinDee wrote: »

He marshals rucks pretty very actually.
Let me know your tallies of his tackle count and tackle assists per game. Make sure you're not using ESPN's website now, as tends to be inaccurate and actually very often unreliable.

The analyses I referred to were of the Six Nations and RWC games.

I've found espn pretty good for first man into tackles but in a choke tackle situation or a double tackle it only counts the first tackler which is harsh on DOC who tends to be the second or third man in a lot of the time.

He hasn't been bad for Ireland but solid (which is how I classify him) isn't good enough to start at international level. He gets a lot of stick because there is better options not because he is bad imo.

I'd have Ryan starting alongside POC and Touhy on the bench.

MikeCork2009

Riskymove wrote: »

which semi?

The semi in Aviva, Munster/Ulster vs Edinburgh/Toulouse.

MikeCork2009

justsomebloke wrote: »

I'd say it will be this weekend/Monday morning, The public ticket sale for HEC semi finals are generally a cluster **** with tickets going on sale generally before Sunday QF away supporters would of had a chance to get home.

Thanks. Remember I was lucky enough to get 2 tickets for the Munster v Leinster semi (or being a Munster supporter could say unlucky ) in Croke Park in 2009 on ticketmaster but cannot remember now when they went on sale.

leftleg

JustinDee wrote: »

Hard to say. I watched analysis of Donncha O'Callaghan's games and he scored well in almost every facet required of him. His experience is also vital. I've seen people lambast his performances yet unable or unwilling to actually pinpoint with a time, this littany of disastrous errors.

Would probably have selected Dan Tuohy ahead of Mike McCarthy in retrospect.

Look were not out to get him; we dont hate him; we rate him but he is like Radge and D'arcy imo; amazing internationals yesterday but not quite up to it today and in most internationals found a little short; theres better players on the bench. play them.

Riskymove

MikeCork2009 wrote: »

Thanks. Remember I was lucky enough to get 2 tickets for the Munster v Leinster semi (or being a Munster supporter could say unlucky ) in Croke Park in 2009 on ticketmaster but cannot remember now when they went on sale.

given that was munster vs leinster, the demand was high

I personally dont think it will be a problemn getting tickets to Twickenham if thats where that one is

for the Munster or Ulster game, the home team will have an alloction of 20,000, but so will the away team....I dont see Toulouse or edinburgh bringing 20,000 fans so i think there will be returns

obviously there will be demand but the chances are a lot better than 2009

Quint2010

"Ian Whitten and a group of talented Academy backs that were seen fleetingly in the RDS a few months ago are missing out due to the ageing Springbok."

So Tereblanche is keeping an entire three-quarter line on the bench?..

ed7890

skregs wrote: »

I think everyone is forgetting that gypsy curse Kidney has that means if he picks anyone under the age of 25 from Leinster or Ulster, he'll die.

That's why Simon Zebo is more likely to get picked at Scrum Half for Ireland than Paul Marshall

Paul Marshall is 26 though, so it can't be the gypsy curse :pac:

leftleg

Quint2010 wrote: »

"Ian Whitten and a group of talented Academy backs that were seen fleetingly in the RDS a few months ago are missing out due to the ageing Springbok."

So Tereblanche is keeping an entire three-quarter line on the bench?..

Yes and the talented backs are so quick they were only seen fleetingly as well

MikeCork2009

Riskymove wrote: »

given that was munster vs leinster, the demand was high

I personally dont think it will be a problemn getting tickets to Twickenham if thats where that one is

for the Munster or Ulster game, the home team will have an alloction of 20,000, but so will the away team....I dont see Toulouse or edinburgh bringing 20,000 fans so i think there will be returns

obviously there will be demand but the chances are a lot better than 2009

Cool, so if home get 20k and away get 20k does that mean that 10k will go on general sale, before returns, given that the Aviva has a 50k capacity?

Riskymove

MikeCork2009 wrote: »

Cool, so if home get 20k and away get 20k does that mean that 10k will go on general sale, before returns, given that the Aviva has a 50k capacity?

basically yes, although the ERC would have a proportion for sponsirs etc.

tbh that is why the public sale goes so quick, its only a small proportion of the overall tickets

JustinDee

leftleg wrote: »

Put them up so; They should prove me wrong and that hes a tackling carrying machine and that everyone including the coaches are wrong to take him off early in every single match.

I don't have stats, in DOCs case i usually don't need them. care to refresh my memory on how much of a machine he actually is.

You're asking me for stats yet I've to go by your word...
I'm just yapping about rugby on an internet forum. You don't HAVE to believe me, 'leftleg'. You don't even have to read what I post or reply to it.
This isn't an Inquiry lol

Hagz

Sergio Parrise, Rodrigo Roncero, Felipe Contepomi. No doubt if Stade lose this, it will be anyone's fault but their own.

Big Nelly

Hagz wrote: »

Sergio Parrise, Rodrigo Roncero, Felipe Contepomi. No doubt if Stade lose this, it will be anyone's fault but their own.

Poor match, did I hear in first half that the Bull Hayes brother is playing for Exeter?

Hagz

Big Nelly wrote: »

Poor match, did I hear in first half that the Bull Hayes brother is playing for Exeter?

Yeh man, he's been playing with them for a while now. Think he's their captain.

Big Nelly

Hagz wrote: »

Yeh man, he's been playing with them for a while now. Think he's their captain.

Dont think I have ever watched an Exeter match before in my life so never knew he played. I don't think I will ever watch one again. Game is brutal. At last Stade are starting to play.

Exeter are a poor team and starting to get sick of the Sky commentators, they might as well just have Exeter jerseys on.......very poor commentators to start with but they are only interested in Exeter winning

Hagz

Big Nelly wrote: »

Dont think I have ever watched an Exeter match before in my life so never knew he played. I don't think I will ever watch one again. Game is brutal. At last Stade are starting to play.

Exeter are a poor team and starting to get sick of the Sky commentators, they might as well just have Exeter jerseys on.......very poor commentators to start with but they are only interested in Exeter winning

In fairness to Exeter though, they just got promoted to Premiership rugby last year from the championship and surprised everyone by finishing around mid table. This year their battling for a play off spot in the Premiership, in the QF of the Amlin and are almost guarenteed Heineken Cup rugby. They're quite an inspirational team considering the limited talent they have had their disposal.

CatFromHue

In fairness to Exeter they should/deserved a try in the first half. They're full of running and were by far the better team in the first half.

Edit: unlucky again for them.