Heineken Cup - General Discussion Thread

Morf

Morf wrote: »

Going to watch the 2nd half now myself.

I was at a low ebb when Hartley scored the try. I could have watched the celebrations after for about another hour or two though. Great stuff.

clsmooth

Around 58 mins in when Nacewa took a great high ball outside the 22, then Healy took it on breaking a few tackles, the SOB making about 30 metres getting dragged on by a few of the pack right into their 22. Magical piece of play

leftleg

Warning Farrelly Alert;

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/hugh-farrelly-ulster-victory-would-be-bad-for-ireland-3072155.html

Good auld Hugh is at it again;


For, while it has been good to see the spark returning to Ravenhill over the past two seasons, there is no escaping the fact that the spine of the team is non-Irish qualified and affecting the touring prospects of Ulster's Ireland hopefuls.

John Afoa -- We saw in Twickenham what the New Zealander's presence is doing for Tom Court's chances of coping at tight-head.

Johann Muller -- Second-row status means one of either Lewis Stevenson (increasingly impressive) or Dan Tuohy will be on the bench.

Pedrie Wannenberg -- Will keep Willie Faloon out of the side and Chris Henry out of position if Stephen Ferris is cleared to play.

Ruan Pienaar -- forcing Paul Marshall to make his name as an impact sub.


As if Dan, Chris and Paul will ever actually get game time under Kidney anyway;

What a silly article; typical Hugh

JustinDee

leftleg wrote: »

As if Dan, Chris and Paul will ever actually get game time under Kidney anyway;
What a silly article; typical Hugh

He makes a fair point. Hardly "silly".
Four overseas players are keeping Irish qualified players out of their provincial side. Nobody outside the management has any idea what plans are made for the players by the Irish selectors.

.ak

JustinDee wrote: »

He makes a fair point. Hardly "silly".
Four overseas players are keeping Irish qualified players out of their provincial side. Nobody outside the management has any idea what plans are made for the players by the Irish selectors.

Nobody knows for certain, but they have a fair idea.

DK and the Irish setup is hardly like the Irish weather... you generally know what's going to happen, long before it happens.

ktulu123

[Jackass] wrote: »

No question, THE moment of the final for me was when Leinster were 22 - 20 down and pulverised the Northampton scrum just inside their half, resulting in a penalty for Leinster to take the lead.

THAT was the moment I knew we had won. The comeback was complete, we were taking the lead, and we just took their greatest weapon, and shoved it up their arse.

Northampton were in the dressing room after that scrum and it was game over, even though we went on to score 13 points after it, they were beaten there and then with 25 minutes left to play.

That was the moment I fell onto two kids in front of me in the stand. I was standing & cheering/shouting with the crowd behind me because of what just happened & lost my footing. What a day!!

.ak

Kids generally make good cushions for over-excited adults.

leftleg

JustinDee wrote: »

He makes a fair point. Hardly "silly".
Four overseas players are keeping Irish qualified players out of their provincial side. Nobody outside the management has any idea what plans are made for the players by the Irish selectors.

No he makes the point that 4 overseas players are keeping four Irish players from getting game time with Ireland; My point is even if they were playing well for their province which Marshall, Thouhy and Henry have been, they still end up holding tackle bags for Ireland.

So yeah his article isn't fair, its silly and one eyed.

But of course according to Hugh, its Ulster ruining Ireland not Declan.

leftleg

JustinDee wrote: »

He makes a fair point. Hardly "silly".
Four overseas players are keeping Irish qualified players out of their provincial side. Nobody outside the management has any idea what plans are made for the players by the Irish selectors.

Healy, Best, Ross, DOC, POC, Ferris, SOB, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Trimble, Darcy, BOD, Earls, Kearney,

Cronin, Court, POM, Ryan, Radge, Reddan

That's just a guess though; I have no idea what the Irish Management will do though

totallegend

leftleg wrote: »

Healy, Best, Ross, DOC, POC, Ferris, SOB, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Trimble, Darcy, BOD, Earls, Kearney,

Cronin, Court, POM, Ryan, Radge, Reddan

That's just a guess though; I have no idea what the Irish Management will do though

I'm with JustinDee on this one, leftleg.

I am 100% convinced that the only thing keeping Lewis Stevenson out of the Ireland set-up is Johann Muller, Kidney has been busting a gut to get young Ulster guys into his team for the last 2-3 years and I'm disgusted that Muller's presence is holding him back. You only have to look at all the caps that Dan Tuohy has won for proof of Kidney's intent on trying things in the second row.

Likewise, Kidney has tried everything in his power not to pick sub-standard Munster scrum-halves but there's no way you can pick Marshall when he's not first-choice at his province, particularly when O'Leary has proven quality and is undisputed #1 for Munster.

And poor Chris Henry, being forced to play at #7 by nasty Pedrie Wannenburg. And even though he was one of Ulster's standout players in the pool games, my heart goes out to him because Ireland are just overloaded with guys who have demonstrated ability at HEC level in the #7 jersey, Kidney did his best to give them all a go but there are only so many games, despite Deccie's crazy experimental selections.

Frankly, I don't see how anyone could blame Kidney. Well done Hugh.

bamboozle

totallegend wrote: »

I'm with JustinDee on this one, leftleg.

I am 100% convinced that the only thing keeping Lewis Stevenson out of the Ireland set-up is Johann Muller, Kidney has been busting a gut to get young Ulster guys into his team for the last 2-3 years and I'm disgusted that Muller's presence is holding him back. You only have to look at all the caps that Dan Tuohy has won for proof of Kidney's intent on trying things in the second row.

Likewise, Kidney has tried everything in his power not to pick sub-standard Munster scrum-halves but there's no way you can pick Marshall when he's not first-choice at his province, particularly when O'Leary has proven quality and is undisputed #1 for Munster.

And poor Chris Henry, being forced to play at #7 by nasty Pedrie Wannenburg. And even though he was one of Ulster's standout players in the pool games, my heart goes out to him because Ireland are just overloaded with guys who have demonstrated ability at HEC level in the #7 jersey, Kidney did his best to give them all a go but there are only so many games, despite Deccie's crazy experimental selections.

Frankly, I don't see how anyone could blame Kidney. Well done Hugh.

agreed, i can only imagine how poorly the national team would have performed in the 6n's had kidney not made the logical & obvious decisions to reinvigorate the squad following the world cup with the introduction of younger and better performing players such as Touhy, Henry, Marshall, McFadden

vienne86

Just heard on RTE radio news that if Clermont win on Sunday, they will play their semi final in Bordeaux. Anyone know if this is accurate? I would have expected the match to be in St Etienne.

jacothelad

JustinDee wrote: »

He makes a fair point. Hardly "silly".
Four overseas players are keeping Irish qualified players out of their provincial side. Nobody outside the management has any idea what plans are made for the players by the Irish selectors.

There are times Justin when your position perhaps means that you perhaps, shouldn't respond. Farrelly is spouting arrant nonsense and it does you little credit to agree.

Dan Tuohy for example is showing week in and out that he is performing better than DOC. Muller isn't keeping him out of the Ireland side, Kidney is.

Wannenberg, an 8 /6, isn't keeping Faloon a 7, out of the Ulster and Ireland side no matter what Rugby Expert ( lol ) Farrelly spews out. Henry is a far superior player to Faloon in every aspect of the game. Do you think Faloon has gone to Connacht because he is a better 7 than Henry? No. Thought not. If Mickey and Minnie Mouse were playing 6 and 8 for Ulster, Henry would still be at 7 and Faloon would be on the bench. Birch is a better 7 than Faloon.

Then we have the wonder gem. Terblanche, a full back, is keeping Whitten, a 12, out of the Ireland side. I mean I've read some tripe in my time but even the incredulous Hugh has surpassed his quota of excrement with this bilge.

So in effect by agreeing that he has a point that if Ulster win on Sunday it is bad for Ireland, you must also agree with the corollory of that which is therefore that if Munster win with Du Preez, Botha, Mafi and Tukalo it's good for Ireland.

Munster imports = good, Ulster imports = bad.

Why not just go the whole hog and bin the whole Ulster side and divvy up the players left to Munster and Leinster.

What Farrelly is really saying is that if Ulster win it will be bad for his pals in Munster and make Kidney look like a tube for his selections. It's just another pile of steaming manure to add to the anti-Ulster fertiliser he generates like a volcano of diarrhoea.

Podge_irl

vienne86 wrote: »

Just heard on RTE radio news that if Clermont win on Sunday, they will play their semi final in Bordeaux. Anyone know if this is accurate? I would have expected the match to be in St Etienne.

So did I. I have ****ing flights to Lyon booked

GerM

jacothelad wrote: »

Why not just go the whole hog and bin the whole Ulster side and divvy up the players left to Munster and Leinster.

Dibs on Fez and Chewy.

GerM

vienne86 wrote: »

Just heard on RTE radio news that if Clermont win on Sunday, they will play their semi final in Bordeaux. Anyone know if this is accurate? I would have expected the match to be in St Etienne.

Indeed, that has been gathering pace for a month or so. Can't recall where it was first mentioned but seems to be the frontrunner at this point. Absolute madness from a Clermont perspective. Don't think they'll be in the QF but insanity if they make it. 370km away and a city that has direct flights from Dublin (if Leinster qualify). Can't see the stadium being more than 3/4 full and about 5,000 of those would be Leinster fans.

justsomebloke

vienne86 wrote: »

Just heard on RTE radio news that if Clermont win on Sunday, they will play their semi final in Bordeaux. Anyone know if this is accurate? I would have expected the match to be in St Etienne.

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/news/16382.php

HEINEKEN CUP SEMI-FINALS
Saturday, 28 April
Munster Rugby or Ulster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby or Toulouse - Aviva Stadium, Dublin (capacity: 50,000)

Sunday, 29 April
Saracens or ASM Clermont Auvergne v Leinster Rugby or Cardiff Blues - Twickenham Stadium (capacity: 82,000) or Stade Chaban Delmas, Bordeaux (capacity: 34,000)

Heineken Cup final- Twickenham Stadium, Saturday 19 May (5.00pm)

AMLIN CHALLENGE CUP SEMI-FINALS
Friday, 27 April
Toulon or Harlequins v Stade Francais Paris or Exeter Chiefs

Saturday, 28 April / Sunday, 29 April
London Wasps or Biarritz Olympique v Brive or Scarlets

Amlin Challenge Cup final - Twickenham Stoop, Friday 18 May (8.00pm)

vienne86

GerM wrote: »

Indeed, that has been gathering pace for a month or so. Can't recall where it was first mentioned but seems to be the frontrunner at this point. Absolute madness from a Clermont perspective. Don't think they'll be in the QF but insanity if they make it. 370km away and a city that has direct flights from Dublin (if Leinster qualify). Can't see the stadium being more than 3/4 full and about 5,000 of those would be Leinster fans.

I'm amazed by this choice on the part of Clermont. I would still prefer our chances against Sarries, but having the match in Bordeaux won't be good for Clermont. Bordeaux is a lovely city and would be a great place to go for a weekend.

JustinDee

jacothelad wrote: »

There are times Justin when your position perhaps means that you perhaps, shouldn't respond. Farrelly is spouting arrant nonsense and it does you little credit to agree

Don't you worry about when I post an view on something and when I don't, William. Thanks anyway.

jacothelad wrote: »

Dan Tuohy for example is showing week in and out that he is performing better than DOC . . .etc

In your opinion, the selectors get it wrong by picking Donncha O'Callaghan. Which performance in particular during the Six Nations showed a Donncha O'Callaghan unable to handle the international pace and not play the role of lock forward? The fact that another coach doesn't deem him a starter?
Regarding what you appear to insinuate (Ulster being unfairly targetted re. non-Irish qualified players), I honestly don't care which province is being discussed so the "Munster imports = good, Ulster imports = bad" line is not really doing you any favours on the point. In my honest opinion. It is not even what the pundit himself would appear to be getting at.

Enjoy the game on Sunday, by the way.

Clegg

DOC didn't have a good 6 nations. He started matches brightly but then faded after the 50 min mark. Ryan actually had a very good 6 Nations, in comparison. And that is only after getting the opportunity through POCs injury.

DOC really doesn't bring much at test level anymore. Ryan has already usurped him at Munster and its only Kidneys one-eyedness that is keeping him from a starting place with Ireland.

I'm rather concerned about DOCs form at Munster too. He's had some very anonymous games this season.

smurphy29

JustinDee wrote: »

Don't you worry about when I post an view on something and when I don't, William. Thanks anyway.


In your opinion, the selectors get it wrong by picking Donncha O'Callaghan. Which performance in particular during the Six Nations showed a Donncha O'Callaghan unable to handle the international pace and not play the role of lock forward? The fact that another coach doesn't deem him a starter?
Regarding what you appear to insinuate (Ulster being unfairly targetted re. non-Irish qualified players), I honestly don't care which province is being discussed so the "Munster imports = good, Ulster imports = bad" line is not really doing you any favours on the point. In my honest opinion. It is not even what the pundit himself would appear to be getting at.

Enjoy the game on Sunday, by the way.

Well, the headline of the piece says that an Ulster win would be bad for Irish rugby, so I think it's pretty fair to say Ulster are being unfairly targeted. Farrelly basically states that Ulster are a bunch of dirty foreign mercenaries acting contrary to the needs of Irish rugby, while Munster are proud flag-flyers for home grown local talent. It's a shameful piece of writing, even by the standards of Farrelly, who cannot help but wield his tired agendas in every piece.

ambid

GerM wrote: »

Dibs on Fez and Chewy.

Chewy?

Clegg

Tuohy

[Jackass]

justsomebloke wrote: »

Sunday, 29 April
Saracens or ASM Clermont Auvergne v Leinster Rugby or Cardiff Blues - Twickenham Stadium (capacity: 82,000) or Stade Chaban Delmas, Bordeaux (capacity: 34,000)

Interesting that Saracens couldn't get their preferred option either with Wembley in use that day. Kind of a sh*t one our game falls on a Sunday though.

leftleg

JustinDee wrote: »

Which performance in particular during the Six Nations showed a Donncha O'Callaghan unable to handle the international pace and not play the role of lock forward?

It is not even what the pundit himself would appear to be getting at.

All of them, he got subbed early in all of them; why?? because hes not a force on the international scene and there are better alternatives

What was the "pundit" getting at with his article in the indo btw??

Otacon

JustinDee wrote: »

Which performance in particular during the Six Nations showed a Donncha O'Callaghan unable to handle the international pace and not play the role of lock forward?

Almost all of them? DOC became anonymous after 40-50 minutes and cannot handle the pace at international level anymore.

As for playing the role at lock forward, no-one would say he cannot do that. However, most feel Dan Tuohy has been consistantly doing this far better than DOC has.

I understand if you do not want to or cannot answer this question Justin, but who do you think should have been picked for the squad: DOC or Tuohy?

GerM

Of mild interest that one of the potential finalists may play their semi final in the same venue. Won’t give a significant advantage but it does allow a side 80 minutes of play and kicking on the pitch that the opposition won’t have.

thomond2006

Toulon:
15 Benjamin Lapeyre, 14 Alexis Palisson, 13 Mathieu Bastareaud, 12 Matt Giteau, 11 David Smith, 10 Jonny Wilkinson, 9 Sébastien Tillous-Borde,
8 Joe van Niekerk (capt), 7 Steffon Armitage, 6 Pierrick Gunther, 5 Dean Schofield, 4 Christophe Samson, 3 Carl Hayman, 2 Sebastien Bruno, 1 Eifion Lewis-Roberts.

Replacements: 16 Jean-Charles Orioli, 17 Romain Frou, 18 Davit Kubriashvili, 19 Joe El Abd, 20 Gabi Lovobalavu, 21 Luke Rooney, 22 Fabien Cibray, 23 Jocelino Suta.

Harlequins:
15 Mike Brown, 14 Tom Williams, 13 Matt Hopper, 12 Jordan Turner-Hall, 11 Ugo Monye, 10 Rory Clegg, 9 Karl Dickson,
8 Nick Easter, 7 Luke Wallace, 6 Tom Guest, 5 George Robson (capt), 4 Tomas Vallejos, 3 James Johnston, 2 Rob Buchanan, 1 Mark Lambert.

Replacements: 16 Aston Croall, 17 Joe Marler, 18 Will Collier, 19 Peter Browne, 20 Maurie Fa'asavalu, 21 Danny Care, 22 Benjamin Urdapilleta, 23 George Lowe

Date: Friday, April 6
Kick-off: 20:45 (19:45 BST)
Venue: Stade Félix Mayol
Referee: George Clancy (Ireland)
Assistant referees: Dudley Phillips (Ireland), Carlo Damasco (Italy)

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_7651951,00.html

This should be a cracking match, both sides are in good form domestically. Toulon are taking this match very seriously, their side (minus 1 or 2) is full strength. Crazy depth at tighthead with Hayman and Kubri, both are in the top tightheads in Europe at the very least. Plus they will have both Sheridan and Jenkins for loosehead next season!

Unfortunately Nick Evans is injured which does take away from the tie, his duel with Wilkinson and Giteau would have been interesting. However Clegg is a decent player, he was brilliant against Munster last year in Thomond.

The battle between the opensides will be good, Wallace is a young player who is hotly tipped to be capped in a few years. Steffon Armitage has been in great form for Toulon since signing from London Irish. Rumour has it he will joined by his other brothers Delon and Guy next season.

Anyway, love them or hate them, Toulon will have the Stade Mayol roaring. Allez Toulon!!!!

MikeCork2009

I know ERC says tickets for semis will go on sale to clubs this weekend and then it's expected extra will be made available to public. Just wondering if anyone would know, from experience, when tickets may be available through ticketmaster?

JustinDee

Otacon wrote: »

I understand if you do not want to or cannot answer this question Justin, but who do you think should have been picked for the squad: DOC or Tuohy?

Hard to say. I watched analysis of Donncha O'Callaghan's games and he scored well in almost every facet required of him. His experience is also vital. I've seen people lambast his performances yet unable or unwilling to actually pinpoint with a time, this littany of disastrous errors.

Would probably have selected Dan Tuohy ahead of Mike McCarthy in retrospect.