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Heineken Cup - General Discussion Thread

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    #2342
    Taco Corp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭Taco Corp


    liam12989 wrote: »
    when is the draw taking place??
    June 12 at 11am. Live on ERC site


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    #2343
    ormond lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭ormond lad


    liam12989 wrote: »
    when is the draw taking place??
    next tuesday 11am


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    #2344
    [Jackass]
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,193 ✭✭✭[Jackass]


    I'd have Clermont as favourites right now, as it's pre-draw, and Leinster as it stands have lost Thorn with no assured replacement of that quality, Fitz might be gone etc.

    If those are sorted and Leinster get a decent draw, I'd bump us back up to slight favourites, mainly as the final would be at "home" if we got there.

    My dark horse for the tournament from this far out, is Toulon, you heard it here first. ;) Almost want to avoid them as much as I want to avoid Clermont.


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    #2345
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    [Jackass] wrote: »
    I'd have Clermont as favourites right now, as it's pre-draw, and Leinster as it stands have lost Thorn with no assured replacement of that quality, Fitz might be gone etc.

    how many HEC games did these two play in the last two wins?


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    #2346
    justsomebloke
    Registered Users Posts: 10,407 ✭✭✭✭justsomebloke


    Riskymove wrote: »
    how many HEC games did these two play in the last two wins?

    You could argue that Fitz's rule is less important due to the standard of players just behind him, But Thorn and Hines had a massive influence in us winning the last 2 HEC and I'd say if we hadn't of had them we mightn't be talking about 3 in 4.


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    #2347
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Thorn, and Hines before him, are massive losses but there is simply no way I would put Clermont as favourites ahead of Leinster unless we get an unbelievably crappy draw. Their record in Europe simply doesn't warrant it.


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    #2348
    [Jackass]
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,193 ✭✭✭[Jackass]


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Thorn, and Hines before him, are massive losses but there is simply no way I would put Clermont as favourites ahead of Leinster unless we get an unbelievably crappy draw. Their record in Europe simply doesn't warrant it.

    I think quality and priority far outweigh recent record, even though I don't think you give Clermont much credit.

    This season they were one missed gym session away from knocking Leinster out and more than likely lifting the cup, the first season they ever really expressed an interest in the Heineken Cup as a main priority, and they can feel slightly aggrieved, certainly unlucky not to have won it this season.

    09/10 they could again feel desperately unlucky not to have progressed to at least the semi-finals only for Brock James' Contepomi-vs-Munster-esq performance in the RDS. They could well have gone all the way that season too.

    They're also a whisker off being a top seeded team, so there's few teams who have a better recent record than them in all of Europe, particularly teams on the decline (in terms of ranking points and due to lose large points soon without replacing them with large points in recent seasons) ahead of them, such as Leicester, Cardiff and Munster, perhaps over a shorter time frame would not be ranked above them, and over the next couple of seasons you could safely bet wont be, so they are in fact one of the most consistant European teams as well as not being 100% in it prior to winning the Top14...

    It does all depend on the draw of course, but I think with the squads exactly as they are now, if we played Clermont 10 times on a neutral ground they'd win 6 imho.

    And in terms of squad, at this exact moment in time, I think Clermont have the best squad in Europe. That's why I'd have them as slight favourites right now. Obviously draw and later signings may change this.


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    #2349
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    [Jackass] wrote: »

    It does all depend on the draw of course, but I think with the squads exactly as they are now, if we played Clermont 10 times on a neutral ground they'd win 6 imho.

    Fair enough, I don't agree. This season on "neutral" ground (that was in fact far more in their favour) we won. Last season we narrowly lost at the SMM and hammered them in Dublin.

    I think they probably have the best squad too - but only 15 players can take their place on the pitch at any one time.


    I give Clermont a HUGE amount of credit, and would have them as second favourites but that's it. For a year in which they supposedly took the HEC seriously they still managed to lose to Ulster and (a less then impressive at the time) Leicester.

    Yes, they came close to doing well in the HEC several times, but they always fell short. They also fell short in France time and again. There is no denying that there is a certain mental fragility there.


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