Heineken Cup - General Discussion Thread

[Jackass]

I wouldn't say that. I know they lost their 2 away games in Europe, but who do you think has been better in Europe so far this season? Leinster? Munster? Tolouse? I don't think any of them have been. They've been tearing it up in the T14 too (all be it, Tolouse have too), but in terms of going away to anyone, Clermont have the best home record of anybody in Europe.

No hyperbole here!

Tox56

[Jackass] wrote: »

I wouldn't say that. I know they lost their 2 away games in Europe, but who do you think has been better in Europe so far this season? Leinster? Munster? Tolouse? I don't think any of them have been. They've been tearing it up in the T14 too (all be it, Tolouse have too), but in terms of going away to anyone, Clermont have the best home record of anybody in Europe.

No hyperbole here!

If you're going to count home form only, I would say Leinster have been just as good, and in terms of pure results, Munster too.

If you count all form, Clermont have lost twice away from home, where Leinster and Munster are both unbeaten home and away.

I would say in terms of performances Leinster have been most impressive, but you cannot ignore the 100% record that Munster have.

molloyjh

Tox56 wrote: »

If you're going to count home form only, I would say Leinster have been just as good, and in terms of pure results, Munster too.

If you count all form, Clermont have lost twice away from home, where Leinster and Munster are both unbeaten home and away.

I would say in terms of performances Leinster have been most impressive, but you cannot ignore the 100% record that Munster have.

Yeah the away form of both themselves and Toulouse in the HEC hasn't been awe inspiring. Both are certainly class outfits and incredibly dangerous in their own back yard, but with Clermont facing Sarries in London I'd say that would be a fairly tight affair.

I know who I'm cheering for anyway. London is far cheaper and easier to get to!

tolosenc

[Jackass] wrote: »

I wouldn't say that. I know they lost their 2 away games in Europe, but who do you think has been better in Europe so far this season? Leinster? Munster? Tolouse? I don't think any of them have been. They've been tearing it up in the T14 too (all be it, Tolouse have too), but in terms of going away to anyone, Clermont have the best home record of anybody in Europe.

No hyperbole here!

Well, Leinster are unbeaten in 6 months now...

irishbucsfan

tolosenc wrote: »

Well, Leinster are unbeaten in 6 months now...

Actually in Europe Leinster haven't lost since 2010!

durkadurka

And it was clermont who beat us

Podge_irl

durkadurka wrote: »

And it was clermont who beat us

I'm still annoyed about that Reddan try that wasn't given in that game!

funky penguin

To be honest, they way it panned out that game was as good as a victory (kinda).

Bonus point, really sticking it to Clermont in their own back yard, and the trust Schmidt put in McFadden and EOM being repaid.

The last time we were convincingly beaten was Toulouse in the semis in 2010, and we've certainly sorted out the scrum problem that cost us that game. Goddamn it I can't wait for the QF.

thomond2006

Jesus the quarters can't come quick enough now.

Tox56

Indeed. WELCOME BACK!!

We missed you.

.ak

I vote that the mods close all Six Nations related threads until next year!

irishbucsfan

Any word on Mike Ross?

Clegg

I worry for the Irish players coming back to their provinces. Morale must be extremely low after the 6 Nations. They'll also need all the crap Kidneyball coached out of them by the QF. The remaining Welsh and English sides in the HEC will be on a high after the 6N.

Fireball07

thomond2006 wrote: »

Jesus the quarters can't come quick enough now.

Ah now, thomond, don't be hasty.

We have POC and Murray out injured, I'd prefer the quarters take ages to come so that they recover

durkadurka

Clegg wrote: »

I worry for the Irish players coming back to their provinces. Morale must be extremely low after the 6 Nations. They'll also need all the crap Kidneyball coached out of them by the QF. The remaining Welsh and English sides in the HEC will be on a high after the 6N.

Don't worry. They get converted back into excellent players just as quickly as they get converted into clumsy oafs under deccies tutelage.

Clegg

durkadurka wrote: »

Don't worry. They get converted back into excellent players just as quickly as they get converted into clumsy oafs under deccies tutelage.

I think Leinster will be ok. Schmidt is a quality coach and there will also be the BOD and Thorn factor.

I worry for Munster and Ulster though.

Fireball07

Clegg wrote: »

I think Leinster will be ok. Schmidt is a quality coach and there will also be the BOD and Thorn factor.

I worry for Munster and Ulster though.

I wouldn't be too worried for Munster apart from the injuries thing.

Earls & Ryan were 2 of Ireland's best performers, I think both came out of the game today with some credit. DOC won't start for a full-strength Munster side. POM always gives 100% and despite the poor results should be buzzing after getting his first caps for his country. And ROG always does the business.

TOL is a slight worry, but hopefully Murray will be back. We've got Wallace coming back from injury which is a big boost, and if POC comes back from injury, that'll be another massive boost.

justsomebloke

.ak wrote: »

I vote that the mods close all Six Nations related threads until next year!

I wish we bloodie could!!!!!

thomond2006

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17418512

Sam Warburton is potentially out for the rest of the season, doesn't look like he will be fit to play Leinster in the quarters.

Tox56

Don't like to "celebrate" an injury, but that is really good news for Leinster.

.ak

Teams in the knock out stages of the H-Cup are allowed to register up to 3 additional players. Here's a list to all the teams new players. Players of note: Brad Thorn, Mark Flanagan and David Wallace.

Additions to European club squads

GerM

Clegg wrote: »

I think Leinster will be ok. Schmidt is a quality coach and there will also be the BOD and Thorn factor.

I worry for Munster and Ulster though.

I wouldn't. I'd be surprised if the winner of their match isn't in the final. Munster will have Murray and POC back in the side, at home in the QF after the ideal warm up the week before. They're deservedly tipped to win. Conversely, Ulster have had a squad minimally disrupted by call ups and are in decent form, chugging along under the radar. They've nothing to lose and will give it their all.

Toulouse are the likely visitors and, like all French sides, are a different animal on the road. Gloucester showed their beatable and Thomond and Ravenhill are exceptionally hard places to get a result. In fact, I don't take it as a given that Toulouse will win the QF. At this moment in time, with an away trip to Saracens or Clermont facing Leinster, I would say Munster are the favourite Irish side to be in Twickenham.

Quint2010

GerM wrote: »

I wouldn't. I'd be surprised if the winner of their match isn't in the final. Munster will have Murray and POC back in the side, at home in the QF after the ideal warm up the week before. They're deservedly tipped to win. Conversely, Ulster have had a squad minimally disrupted by call ups and are in decent form, chugging along under the radar. They've nothing to lose and will give it their all.

Toulouse are the likely visitors and, like all French sides, are a different animal on the road. Gloucester showed their beatable and Thomond and Ravenhill are exceptionally hard places to get a result. In fact, I don't take it as a given that Toulouse will win the QF. At this moment in time, with an away trip to Saracens or Clermont facing Leinster, I would say Munster are the favourite Irish side to be in Twickenham.

The bookies would disagree with you..

Tox56

I think if Ulster win against Munster, they will lose to Toulouse, and if Munster win they will beat Toulouse (obviously assuming Toulouse go through).

I will almost certainly be wrong though.

GerM

Quint2010 wrote: »

The bookies would disagree with you..

Bookies odds are driven by money too, not necessarily by the likelihood of who will win. If a competitor is the most heavily backed in a competition, they will have the shortest odds. Leinster are current holders and were cruising in the pool stages. They'll have the shortest odds regardless of their draw as the bookies try to minimise their exposure; Munster's draw is far better. A favourite winning is the worst result possible for a bookie.

Quint2010

GerM wrote: »

Bookies odds are driven by money too, not necessarily by the likelihood of who will win. If a competitor is the most heavily backed in a competition, they will have the shortest odds. Leinster are current holders and were cruising in the pool stages. They'll have the shortest odds regardless of their draw as the bookies try to minimise their exposure; Munster's draw is far better. A favourite winning is the worst result possible for a bookie.

Yes and Leinster are still favourites despite (in theory) having a tougher draw. And the bookies don't want you to back them because in spite of their (in theory) tougher draw-they still think they have a greater chance of winning the HC than any other team left in the competition.

GerM

Quint2010 wrote: »

And the bookies don't want you to back them because in spite of their (in theory) tougher draw-they still think they have a greater chance of winning the HC than any other team left in the competition.

You're disregarding the supply/demand aspect of betting which is a driving factor in the setting of odds. The money riding on Leinster is a factor in them having the shortest odds marginally at this point. They're not setting Leinster against Munster, they set them against the money they'll have to pay out. If there was no money on Leinster, the odds on them would be longer regardless of whether they think Leinster would be most likely to win or not.

GerM

GerM wrote: »

You're disregarding the supply/demand aspect of betting which is a driving factor in the setting of odds. The money riding on Leinster is a factor in them having the shortest odds marginally at this point. They're not setting Leinster against Munster, they set them against the money they'll have to pay out. If there was no money on Leinster, the odds on them would be longer regardless of whether they think Leinster would be most likely to win or not.

it's not.

That's not how fixed odds betting works.

(That's Tote betting)

tolosenc

GerM wrote: »

I wouldn't. I'd be surprised if the winner of their match isn't in the final. Munster will have Murray and POC back in the side, at home in the QF after the ideal warm up the week before. They're deservedly tipped to win. Conversely, Ulster have had a squad minimally disrupted by call ups and are in decent form, chugging along under the radar. They've nothing to lose and will give it their all.

Toulouse are the likely visitors and, like all French sides, are a different animal on the road. Gloucester showed their beatable and Thomond and Ravenhill are exceptionally hard places to get a result. In fact, I don't take it as a given that Toulouse will win the QF. At this moment in time, with an away trip to Saracens or Clermont facing Leinster, I would say Munster are the favourite Irish side to be in Twickenham.

Well, lucky for Toulouse/Embra that they won't be going to either of those for the semi!

Tox56

Refs for the Quarter-Finals: http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/news/16262.php

Leinster got Pearson, Munster/Ulster got Poite.