Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

British poppy: should the Irish commemorate people who fought for the British Empire?

Options
1…2223252728…46

Comments

  • Options
    #722
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Sharrow wrote: »
    Fratton Fred & slapbangwallop how do you feel about the wearing of the easter lily as a symbol on par with the poppy?

    If people want to wear the Lily then good luck to them, it is a different symbol to the Poppy, because it doesn't (or at least shouldn't) represent anyone in an ongoing conflict. I would respect the right of anyone to remember those who dies for Irish independence.

    However, the lily that has been hijacked by the republican movement has the blood of innocent people on it. Anyone who berates the poppy, but wears the SF/IRA poppy is a hypocrite.


  • Options
    #723
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    He's only annoyed because Sandhurst head-hunters didn't try to recruit him.

    All those years being buggered at boarding school completely wasted!


  • Options
    #724
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,010 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    All those years being buggered at boarding school completely wasted!

    It gives them more incentive to head for the front and not look back.


  • Options
    #725
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    the lily that has been hijacked by the republican movement has the blood of innocent people on it. Anyone who berates the poppy, but wears the SF/IRA poppy is a hypocrite.

    The poppy commemorates the British Army, including those who occuppied this country and have Irish blood on their hands. What makes you think any self respecting Irish person should commemorate the forces that occuppied their own country and murdered their own fellow country men ? Would you ?

    The Easter Lily commemorates those who rose up against and fought those forces.


  • Options
    #726
    FetchTheGin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭FetchTheGin


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    If people want to wear the Lily then good luck to them, it is a different symbol to the Poppy, because it doesn't (or at least shouldn't) represent anyone in an ongoing conflict. I would respect the right of anyone to remember those who dies for Irish independence.

    However, the lily that has been hijacked by the republican movement has the blood of innocent people on it. Anyone who berates the poppy, but wears the SF/IRA poppy is a hypocrite.

    Hypocrisy is an ugly thing.

    The B.A. is responsible for the oppression and destruction of not just Irish, but many people over the world. So the blood of many innocents is in their hands.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #727
    slapbangwallop
    Registered Users Posts: 684 ✭✭✭slapbangwallop


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    If people want to wear the Lily then good luck to them, it is a different symbol to the Poppy, because it doesn't (or at least shouldn't) represent anyone in an ongoing conflict. I would respect the right of anyone to remember those who dies for Irish independence.

    However, the lily that has been hijacked by the republican movement has the blood of innocent people on it. Anyone who berates the poppy, but wears the SF/IRA poppy is a hypocrite.

    The Easter Lily commemorates those that were killed or executed during the 1916 Rising.

    Somehow we have come to a scenario in Ireland where is it more acceptable to wear a Poppy commemorate those that came to Ireland occupy te country and kill Irishmen then it is to wear an icon commemorating those that tried to free Ireland. Simplistic yes, but its not feasible write a thesis here, but it does sound bizarre doesnt it.

    I agree the Lily has been hijacked by some but to the same degree the Poppy in Ireland has been hijacked by Unionists and Loyalist.

    I havent an issue with British people like Fred wearing a Poppy, my issue is with Irish people wearing the Poppy when they are ignorant of what the symbol means or supports and simply stupidly state "My grandfather fought in WWI".


  • Options
    #728
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    FetchTheGin wrote: »
    Hypocrisy is an ugly thing.

    The B.A. is responsible for the oppression and destruction of not just Irish, but many people over the world. So the blood of many innocents is in their hands.

    The IRA killed a few in Europe as well!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Options
    #729
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Morlar wrote: »
    The poppy commemorates the British Army, including those who occuppied this country and have Irish blood on their hands. What makes you think any self respecting Irish person should commemorate the forces that occuppied their own country and murdered their own fellow country men ? Would you ?

    The Easter Lily commemorates those who rose up against and fought those forces.

    I know you can read, as I have read a lot of your posts, so how come you have had a mental block here?


  • Options
    #730
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I know you can read, as I have read a lot of your posts, so how come you have had a mental block here?

    Answer the question. You are a patriotic British person. Would you reasonably expect your fellow British Citizens to commemorate an army which occuppied your country and enforced an oppresive regime that murdered countless of your own fellow country men ? Would you commemorate that ?


  • Options
    #731
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    No (I'm Irish)
    May I suggest that any of the poppy 'nay sayers' living on the South side of Dublin to take a trip to 'Christ Church Bray' sometime this week. Currently there is a massive World War I & World War II exhibition/ Flower festival running daily leading up to Sunday the 13th. The Church is full of the names of those young lads (primarily from Bray) who perished in the Geat War & WWII. If you are peckish there is soup & sanwiches/ teas coffee too.

    Write up in today's Irish Independent (page 2/3).

    PS: Wrap up well, the church is deliberately cold in oder to preserve the thousands of poppies/flowers in the exhibition.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #732
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    LordSutch wrote: »
    May I suggest that any of the poppy 'nay sayers' living on the South side of Dublin to take a trip to 'Christ Church Bray' sometime this week. Currently there is a massive World War I & World War II exhibition/ Flower festival running daily leading up to Sunday the 13th. The Church is full of the names of those young lads (primarily from Bray) who perished in the Geat War & WWII. If you are peckish there is soup & sanwiches/ teas coffee too.

    Write up in today's Irish Independent (page 2/3).

    PS: Wap up well, the church is deliberately cold in oder to preserve the thousands of poppies/flowers in the exhibition.

    I have been to that in previous years.

    You absolutely 100% categorically DO NOT need a poppy to either go there, have an interest in WWI or to commemorate Irish who died in WWI.

    Back to you Fred.


  • Options
    #733
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    slapbangwallop wrote: »
    The Easter Lily commemorates those that were killed or executed during the 1916 Rising.

    Somehow we have come to a scenario in Ireland where is it more acceptable to wear a Poppy commemorate those that came to Ireland occupy te country and kill Irishmen then it is to wear an icon commemorating those that tried to free Ireland. Simplistic yes, but its not feasible write a thesis here, but it does sound bizarre doesnt it.

    I agree the Lily has been hijacked by some but to the same degree the Poppy in Ireland has been hijacked by Unionists and Loyalist.

    I havent an issue with British people like Fred wearing a Poppy, my issue is with Irish people wearing the Poppy when they are ignorant of what the symbol means or supports and simply stupidly state "My grandfather fought in WWI".

    I think you have hit on a couple of valid points there.

    There are two Poppies, as there are two Lilies. One that is a flower and is used as a symbol of remembrance. The other is a manufactured item that is sold for fund raising, be that for the RBL or the dependents of republican prisoners.

    I don't think anyone could have an issue with the former, but the latter is always going to be contentious.

    And I agree with you, the Poppy means something very different in Britain. We had conscription, which meant that the majority of those killed in WWI and WWII were not gung ho young men seeking a life of adventure, they were ordinary joe soaps forced into the army.


  • Options
    #734
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    The majority of Easter Lilys are sold by the NGA, the national graves association. The funds go towards looking after the graves of Irish patriots, they fixed up Wolfe Tones over the summer for example.


  • Options
    #735
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    No (I'm Irish)
    FetchTheGin wrote: »
    Hypocrisy is an ugly thing.

    The B.A. is responsible for the oppression and destruction of not just Irish, but many people over the world. So the blood of many innocents is in their hands.

    so are the french,germans, Portuguese,spanish what's your point?


  • Options
    #736
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    No (I'm Irish)
    Morlar wrote: »
    I have been to that in previous years.

    You absolutely 100% categorically DO NOT need a poppy to either go there, have an interest in WWI or to commemorate Irish who died in WWI.

    Back to you Fred.

    This is the 1st year that the poppy/flower festival has run in conjunction with the Geat War exhibition, there is little resemblance to previous years!

    And by the way, Morlar is 100% corect, you DO NOT need to wear a poppy.


  • Options
    #737
    FetchTheGin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭FetchTheGin


    pmcmahon wrote: »
    so are the french,germans, Portuguese,spanish what's your point?

    Great comparison. :rolleyes:

    You don't see anyone walking around with commemorative swastikas in memory of fallen Nazi soldiers.


  • Options
    #738
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Morlar wrote: »
    Answer the question. You are a patriotic British person. Would you reasonably expect your fellow British Citizens to commemorate an army which occuppied your country and enforced an oppresive regime that murdered countless of your own fellow country men ? Would you commemorate that ?

    Oh please, enough of the "Feel sorry for my forefathers" routine.

    I don't expect British people to commemorate the German's that died in WWII (they were fighting for an oppressive regime and did try to invade my country) but I have no problem with people who wish to do that. I think it is right to acknowledge all casualties of war.

    But then, I don't wallow in self pity.


  • Options
    #739
    FetchTheGin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭FetchTheGin


    K-9 wrote: »
    The IRA killed a few in Europe as well!

    WTF has this got to do with anything?!


  • Options
    #740
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    FetchTheGin wrote: »
    Hypocrisy is an ugly thing.

    The B.A. is responsible for the oppression and destruction of not just Irish, but many people over the world. So the blood of many innocents is in their hands.

    Name a country that doesn't.


  • Options
    #741
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    No (I'm Irish)
    FetchTheGin wrote: »
    Great comparison. :rolleyes:

    You don't see anyone walking around with commemorative swastikas in memory of fallen Nazi soldiers.

    in certain places you would,however they're just your typical scummy holocaust sympathiser.

    However you may want to note there were and are German armies other than the one from 1939-1945 :rolleyes:


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #742
    FetchTheGin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭FetchTheGin


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Name a country that doesn't.

    Jesus Christ.

    You go on and on and on and on and on and on about the IRA being a bunch of murderous thugs, yet anytime someone criticises the B.A. for their invasion and destruction of many countries, the best you have to offer in way of debate is "shure all countries have their demons".

    Like I said, Hypocritical and pointless.


  • Options
    #743
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    No (I'm Irish)
    There is no reason for an Irish person to Flaunt a poppy around Dublin,I have my poppy hung up out of general view from the outside but noticeable on the inside of my car,there's no need to shove your opinion down peoples throats in public,however there is no reason not to donate to the poppy appeal if that way inclined.


  • Options
    #744
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    FetchTheGin wrote: »
    Jesus Christ.

    You go on and on and on and on and on and on about the IRA being a bunch of murderous thugs, yet anytime someone criticises the B.A. for their invasion and destruction of many countries, the best you have to offer in way of debate is "shure all countries have their demons".

    Like I said, Hypocritical and pointless.

    What have the IRA got to do with this?

    Are you telling me I shouldn't remember them men and women that died in WWI and II because Britain had an empire?

    What a load of ****e.


  • Options
    #745
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    No (I'm Irish)
    FetchTheGin wrote: »
    Jesus Christ.

    You go on and on and on and on and on and on about the IRA being a bunch of murderous thugs, yet anytime someone criticises the B.A. for their invasion and destruction of many countries, the best you have to offer in way of debate is "shure all countries have their demons".

    Like I said, Hypocritical and pointless.

    There was nothing in most of the countries to be Destroyed to be honest,if anything it brought the countries up.


  • Options
    #746
    FetchTheGin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭FetchTheGin


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    What have the IRA got to do with this?


    You seem to casually include them in every thread including this one, so I could ask you the same thing.
    pmcmahon wrote: »
    There was nothing in most of the countries to be Destroyed to be honest,if anything it brought the countries up.

    Oh dear lord.


  • Options
    #747
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Oh please, enough of the "Feel sorry for my forefathers" routine.

    I don't expect British people to commemorate the German's that died in WWII (they were fighting for an oppressive regime and did try to invade my country) but I have no problem with people who wish to do that. I think it is right to acknowledge all casualties of war.

    But then, I don't wallow in self pity.

    So that would be a no then.

    No, you would not expect British people to commemorate an army if that army had occuppied your country and murdered your fellow countrymen.

    You can dismiss that as 'Self pity' all you like, it's just your way of trying to sidestep the facts of this situation.

    The fact is you on here expecting Irish people to do what you yourself acknowledge British people would never in a million years do.


  • Options
    #748
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Morlar wrote: »
    The fact is you on here expecting Irish people to do what you yourself acknowledge British people would never in a million years do.

    This is why I question your reading ability. Not once have I said that I expect Irish people to wear the Poppy and twice (now three times) I have pointed this out.

    Rabble rabble 800 years rabble famine rabble.


  • Options
    #749
    FetchTheGin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭FetchTheGin


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Rabble rabble 800 years rabble famine rabble.

    Wouldn't expect any less from you other than this BS.

    I'm out.


  • Options
    #750
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    No (I'm Irish)
    FetchTheGin wrote: »
    Wouldn't expect any less from you other than this BS.

    I'm out.

    but that is the exact reaction every republican presents to argue a case,no view of the future but only a deluded tunnel vision view of the past.Typical.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #751
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    pmcmahon wrote: »
    but that is the exact reaction every republican presents to argue a case,no view of the future but only a deluded tunnel vision view of the past.Typical.

    I think if anyone on this thread has a 'deluded tunnel vision of the past' it's those arguing in favour of Irish people wearing a British Legion Poppy.


    To me that would be the epitomy of a 'Deluded tunnel vision view of the Past'.


Advertisement