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Heineken Cup Final - Dublin 2013 [NO TICKET SALES HERE!!!]

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12467…19

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    #92
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Rightwing wrote: »
    A few posts back.

    Which post was that now? Genuinely curious about this


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    #93
    Bogota
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Bogota


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    I don't think we're punching above our weight, Ireland has some bloody good sides. The English have declined, there's no doubt about that. However Leicester have had zero luck in some of the pools they've drawn in the last few seasons. They got Ulster & Clermont last season and then Ospreys and Toulouse this season.

    Next season I think the Irish and French sides will do well in the Heineken Cup, the draws will suit them.

    Have they declined? Of the 3 finals Leinster won, 2 of them contained English sides. Similarly, on the route to those wins, Leinster knocked out a number of English sides in the knock out stages

    Have English sides declined or has it just been a case that for the last 4 years, Leinster have been too good? Take Leinster out of the equation and suddenly you'd have a number of English winners.


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    #94
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    You don't think Toulon haven't been a top French team?



    Well let's look at their league finishes over the past few seasons:
    • 12/13: 1st or 2nd in league, will be semi-finalist at least. Will be HEC finalist at least.
    • 11/12: 3rd in league, playoff finalist. Amlin finalist.
    • 10/11: 8th in league, HEC quarter-finalist. Got out of extremely difficult pool with Munster, Ospreys and London Irish.
    • 09/10: 2nd in league, lost semi-final in extra time to Clermont. Amlin CC finalist.
    • 08/09: Avoided relegation following promotion in the previous year.
    Since 09/10 they've done pretty well, they are definitely in the top 4 of French teams of the last while. The rise of Castres, Montpellier and Racing Metro has been more recent. In that time Perpignan and Stade Francais have regressed.

    So in 09, they avoided relegation. That's my point, they've come from nowhere.


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    #95
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Rightwing wrote: »
    So in 09, they avoided relegation. That's my point, they've come from nowhere.

    But you said they weren't a top team, they have been for 3-4 years. Whether they appeared from nowhere or not isn't relevant.


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    #96
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Bogota wrote: »
    Have they declined? Of the 3 finals Leinster won, 2 of them contained English sides. Similarly, on the route to those wins, Leinster knocked out a number of English sides in the knock out stages

    Have English sides declined or has it just been a case that for the last 4 years, Leinster have been too good? Take Leinster out of the equation and suddenly you'd have a number of English winners.

    You wouldn't, because they'd probably have lost the finals anyway.


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    #97
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    But you said they weren't a top team, they have been for 3-4 years. Whether they appeared from nowhere or not isn't relevant.

    I wouldn't necessarily call an 8th place finish in the league a top team and that's only 2 years ago...and 4 years ago they avoided relegation.


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    #98
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I wouldn't necessarily call an 8th place finish in the league a top team and that's only 2 years ago...and 4 years ago they avoided relegation.

    So who has been better than them? Castres narrowly avoided relegation in 2008/2009 and have done nothing at European level. Montpellier were a mid-table side until 10/11 and did little in Europe until getting to the QF this year. Racing Métro got promoted the year after Toulon and have done nothing at European level.

    Only Clermont and Toulouse have achieved more since 09/10 inclusive than Toulon. Perpignan have regressed for the last two/three seasons, Stade Francais worse so.

    Do you still think Toulon have not been in at least the Top4 of French clubs over those four seasons: 09/10 to 12/13? Being in the Top 4 would be my definition of a "top French team".


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    #99
    Fits Morris
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 243 ✭✭Fits Morris


    What kind of a crowd are we expecting? It's not an attractive game for the neutral and travelling support will be much less than expected with two French teams involved. The 2003 final in Dublin which was also an all-French affair was poorly attended. I think they'll be doing well to break 35-40,000.


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    #100
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Fits Morris wrote: »
    What kind of a crowd are we expecting? It's not an attractive game for the neutral and travelling support will be much less than expected with two French teams involved. The 2003 final in Dublin which was also an all-French affair was poorly attended. I think they'll be doing well to break 35-40,000.

    They'll sell it out, but put it this way, touts will be stuck with their tickets.


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    #101
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    So who has been better than them? Castres narrowly avoided relegation in 2008/2009 and have done nothing at European level. Montpellier were a mid-table side until 10/11 and did little in Europe until getting to the QF this year. Racing Métro got promoted the year after Toulon and have done nothing at European level.

    Only Clermont and Toulouse have achieved more since 09/10 inclusive than Toulon. Perpignan have regressed for the last two/three seasons, Stade Francais worse so.

    Do you still think Toulon have not been in at least the Top4 of French clubs over those four seasons: 09/10 to 12/13? Being in the Top 4 would be my definition of a "top French team".

    What about 1 of my favourite clubs biarritz, how have they done?

    The Top 14 is a bit like the Spanish league, take away Barca & Real, and it's a free for all.


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    #102
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Rightwing wrote: »
    What about 1 of my favourite clubs biarritz, how have they done?

    The Top 14 is a bit like the Spanish league, take away Barca & Real, and it's a free for all.

    5 different winners in 7 seasons would suggest that's absolute horse****


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    #103
    Liveforrugby
    Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭Liveforrugby


    Fits Morris wrote: »
    What kind of a crowd are we expecting? It's not an attractive game for the neutral and travelling support will be much less than expected with two French teams involved. The 2003 final in Dublin which was also an all-French affair was poorly attended. I think they'll be doing well to break 35-40,000.

    This. So disappointing that a final of the most prestigious competition in europe doesn't have a full attendance. Can you imagine if the super bowl attendance was like this or even soccer, so sad :(


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    #104
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Rightwing wrote: »
    What about 1 of my favourite clubs biarritz, how have they done?

    The Top 14 is a bit like the Spanish league, take away Barca & Real, and it's a free for all.



    Biarritz have had little success in the league:
    • 09/10: 7th
    • 10/11: 6th, lost playoff QF
    • 11/12: 9th
    • 12:13: Can finish as high as 8th or as low as 12th.
    They've had a decent run in Europe but that was helped by having an Italian side in their pool for most of those years. They won't be in the Heineken Cup next year and have definitely fallen behind the pack of 'top' teams.

    Bolded point is just not true at all, you're pulling these statements from nowhere, I'm trying to back up mine with facts. Look the league tables at lnr.fr under "classement". Toulouse and Clermont are not Barca and Real, only in 2011/12 have they comfortably finished higher in the league than another team.


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    #105
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Biarritz have had little success in the league:
    • 09/10: 7th
    • 10/11: 6th, lost playoff QF
    • 11/12: 9th
    • 12:13: Can finish as high as 8th or as low as 12th.
    They've had a decent run in Europe but that was helped by having an Italian side in their pool for most of those years. They won't be in the Heineken Cup next year and have definitely fallen behind the pack of 'top' teams.

    Bolded point is just not true at all, you're pulling these statements from nowhere, I'm trying to back up mine with facts. Look the league tables at lnr.fr under "classement". Toulouse and Clermont are not Barca and Real, only in 2011/12 have they comfortably finished higher in the league than another team.

    Consistency, Toulouse are up there year in, year out, and Clermont have joined them. The others like Biarritz, Stade, Perp, good 1 year, poor the next.


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    #106
    mystic86
    Registered Users Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭mystic86


    oh man, the bickering in here is unbearable!

    Heineken cup final, the pinnacle of European club rugby, will be held in Dublin in under 3 weeks time - yay, let's be a bit more positive :):p


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    #107
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Liveforrugby wrote: »
    This. So disappointing that a final of the most prestigious competition in europe doesn't have a full attendance. Can you imagine if the super bowl attendance was like this or even soccer, so sad :(

    There are meant to be 24 planes coming from Clermont for this. Add to that the Toulon fans and the neutrals (there's always plenty of neutrals at the finals) plus the fact that it's in such a small stadium and I don't doubt it'll be full. Plenty of Leinster fans will have bought tickets and a lot will still go, both for the occasion and to cheer on Clermont. I'll be there in my blue beret singing my lungs out for them anyway.


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    #108
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Consistency, Toulouse are up there year in, year out, and Clermont have joined them. The others like Biarritz, Stade, Perp, good 1 year, poor the next.

    But it's not like Barca and Real....

    So what you said before is completely wrong. Did you even bother to look at the tables over the last four seasons? In only one did Toulouse and Clermont finish comfortably above the other teams. Barca and Real have consistently finished first and second over the past seasons. So they are not comparable at all.


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    #109
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    But it's not like Barca and Real....

    So what you said before is completely wrong. Did you even bother to look at the tables over the last four seasons?

    It's very much like it, because check the tables and you will see Toulouse and Clermont have been up there over the last 5 years.

    On the other hand, what I had to disagree with is 'Toulon being a top team for the last 5 years', when in fact for some of that they were winning promotion and avoiding relegation.


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    #110
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Rightwing wrote: »
    It's very much like it, because check the tables and you will see Toulouse and Clermont have been up there over the last 5 years.

    On the other hand, what I had to disagree with is 'Toulon being a top team for the last 5 years', when in fact for some of that they were winning promotion and avoiding relegation.

    It's absolutely nothing like La Liga, where no one bar Barca or Madrid has won the cup for around ten years

    There have been 5 different winners of the top 14 in the last 7 years

    Your comparison is ridiculous


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    #111
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Rightwing wrote: »
    It's very much like it, because check the tables and you will see Toulouse and Clermont have been up there over the last 5 years.

    On the other hand, what I had to disagree with is 'Toulon being a top team for the last 5 years', when in fact for some of that they were winning promotion and avoiding relegation.

    Point 1: It's not like it. Real and Barca have consistently been first and second in La Liga, Toulon and Clermont have not in the Top14. Fact. Look up the tables and you'll see that. If you are comparing La Liga to Top14 then you can't exactly talk about the playoffs since they don't exist in La Liga. Even if you compared using the Top14 playoffs: Perpignan, Montpellier and Toulon have been in the final during that period.

    Point 2: I've been talking from 09/10 to 12/13*. So promotion and relegation aren't counted. In your opinion, have Toulon been in the Top 4 of French clubs in terms of league/european achievements in that time period? None of Perpignan, Castres, Stade Francais or Montpellier have made the same impact in Europe over that time period.

    *I mentioned Castres nearly being relegated in 08/09, so discount that obviously.


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    #112
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    trouttrout wrote: »
    It's absolutely nothing like La Liga, where no one bar Barca or Madrid has won the cup for around ten years

    There have been 5 different winners of the top 14 in the last 7 years

    Your comparison is ridiculous

    Playoffs directs your argument toward the dustbin.


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    #113
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Point 1: It's not like it. Real and Barca have consistently been first and second in La Liga, Toulon and Clermont have not in the Top14. Fact. Look up the tables and you'll see that.

    Point 2: I've been talking from 09/10 to 12/13*. So promotion and relegation aren't counted. In your opinion, have Toulon been in the Top 4 of French clubs in terms of league/european achievements in that time period? None of Perpignan, Castres, Stade Francais or Montpellier have made the same impact in Europe over that time period.

    *I mentioned Castres nearly being relegated in 08/09, so discount that obviously.

    troutytrout was saying 'Toulon have been top team for 5 years', I ridiculed that. Now, for the last 3 years, yes Toulon would be a top team, and they'll get stronger, hence my initial point, they've come from nowhere.


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    #114
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Rightwing wrote: »
    troutytrout was saying 'Toulon have been top team for 5 years', I ridiculed that. Now, for the last 3 years, yes Toulon would be a top team, and they'll get stronger, hence my initial point, they've come from nowhere.

    5 years is arguable, 3 years isn't. So we agree on something. I'll leave it there.

    Hopefully you'll see that your La Liga comparison doesn't really stack up to the facts I've presented here.


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    #115
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    5 years is arguable, 3 years isn't. So we agree. I'll leave it there.

    Hopefully you'll see that your La Liga comparison doesn't really stack up to the facts I've presented here.

    Had the initial point been 3 years, I would have been in complete agreement.

    B Laporte was saying they've reached the final in their 2nd year of competing in it, (is the correct?,,,must be 3,,,I remember then beating Munster 2 yrs ago) that's massive by any standards.


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    #116
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Rightwing wrote: »
    B Laporte was saying they've reached the final in their 2nd year of competing in it, (is the correct?,,,must be 3,,,I remember then beating Munster 2 yrs ago) that's massive by any standards.

    This is their second year in the Heineken Cup. Last season they were in the Amlin.


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    #117
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    This is their second year in the Heineken Cup. Last season they were in the Amlin.

    Thanks, so he was right.
    That's some achievement then in fairness to them. If they win it, will be galling for Clermont with all the effort and hard luck they've had over the years.


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    #118
    danny29
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭danny29


    Heineken Cup Final tickets on sale now at ticketmaster.ie


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    #119
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    danny29 wrote: »
    Heineken Cup Final tickets on sale now at ticketmaster.ie

    Can't see there being any great demand for them now. Gutted Munster didn't make it, or indeed Ulster/Leinster.


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    #120
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Can't see there being any great demand for them now. Gutted Munster didn't make it, or indeed Ulster/Leinster.

    The Clermont fans will travel.


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    #121
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    .ak wrote: »
    The Clermont fans will travel.

    No doubt, but no one travels like the Irish fans, so Clermont maybe 20,000 max. Toulon, would they get 5,000 or 6,000,,I know very little about them.


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