Built like a Badass

Dathai

Just on the topic of yogurt. If you're near a Lidl or Aldi have a look for Landliebe yogurt. It's basically crack in a jar, for about 2 quid.

dario28

Week 8

Barbell Push-ups,

descending sets (“18 down to 1”): Perform 18 barbell push-ups,
then 17, then 16, then 15, etc. Rest the least amount of time between sets while still
enabling yourself enough recovery time to complete all the reps in each set.


Lethal !!!!!!!!!

nilster

Even though I've completed BLAB and moved on to 5/3/1, I've kept these push-up ladders in my programming because they're such killers.

the drifter

nilster wrote: »

Even though I've completed BLAB and moved on to 5/3/1, I've kept these push-up ladders in my programming because they're such killers.

move away again quickly...

nilster

move away again quickly...

Meaning? You have a bad experience on Wendler?

Hanley

nilster wrote: »

Meaning? You have a bad experience on Wendler?

YEah... he's such a selfish lover

No one hear who's done 5/3/1, save maybe 1 person has had a good exp on it.

the drifter

Hanley wrote: »

YEah... he's such a selfish lover

No one hear who's done 5/3/1, save maybe 1 person has had a good exp on it.

Pretty much....I think i lasted 5 weeks before i got weaker...henners lasted a year and he is emotionally destroyed for life

nilster

Wow, I'll have to see if I can find those discussions. I've slowly been working my way chronologically through the main thread of 5/3/1 discussion on the T-Nation forums. At the point I've read, no one has been on the program for more than 8-12 cycles, but most of those folks seemed satisfied with the results (except bench seems to stall out early for a lot of folks).

The reason I chose it was because the % progression model worked so well for me on BLAB, but I missed the heavy presses and pulls I was able to incorporate alongside squats on WS4SB.

Thanks for the heads-up, though.

d'Oracle

the drifter wrote: »

Pretty much....I think i lasted 5 weeks before i got weaker...

That's hardly a fair crack for a programme which unashamedly bases itself on slow steady progress.

nilster

Just curious, if you found 5/3/1 a let-down, what is it you like about BLAB? I ask as it's got a similar % structure for the main lifts.

Hanley

nilster wrote: »

Wow, I'll have to see if I can find those discussions. I've slowly been working my way chronologically through the main thread of 5/3/1 discussion on the T-Nation forums. At the point I've read, no one has been on the program for more than 8-12 cycles, but most of those folks seemed satisfied with the results (except bench seems to stall out early for a lot of folks).

The reason I chose it was because the % progression model worked so well for me on BLAB, but I missed the heavy presses and pulls I was able to incorporate alongside squats on WS4SB.

Thanks for the heads-up, though.

It becomes quite individual specific, and also will be effected by HOW you apply the program. So there's definitely the potential to make gains, but if you're educated enough in the lifting game, there's better options.

I know "educated" is a loaded word, but i'm talking about folks with multi year strength training exp who know how they react to things. As a template 5/3/1 makes a lot of sense:
-big lifts
-planned overload
-assistance lifts targeted to help main lifts

^^That's the basics of any good program right there.

Hanley

d'Oracle wrote: »

That's hardly a fair crack for a programme which unashamedly bases itself on slow steady progress.

You would hardly expect any program to make you weaker in the short term and stronger in the long term? Unless there's planned overreaching involved in the initial stages, which isn't the case with 5/3/1.

Inspector Coptoor

It was 14 months that I'll never get back!

5/3/1 is good in theory, & is good in practice for lifters with chemical help but for natural lifters, it just doesn't seem to work long term.

A lifter would appear to get stronger (ie hit rep pr's in the 70-85% range) but there's not much carryover to actual 1RMs in competition or otherwise.

d'Oracle

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

It was 14 months that I'll never get back!

5/3/1 is good in theory, & is good in practice for lifters with chemical help but for natural lifters, it just doesn't seem to work long term.

A lifter would appear to get stronger (ie hit rep pr's in the 70-85% range) but there's not much carryover to actual 1RMs in competition or otherwise.

Were you doing any actual singles in and around 1RM as part of your training?

the drifter

d'Oracle wrote: »

That's hardly a fair crack for a programme which unashamedly bases itself on slow steady progress.

i think its very fair...i knew it was going to be useless after three weeks but gave him the benifit of the doubt

Inspector Coptoor

d'Oracle wrote: »

Were you doing any actual singles in and around 1RM as part of your training?

After 5-6 cycles of adding 5kg to DL & squat & 2.5kg to press & bench, yes, yes I was.

So much so, that at one point my 1+ lifts were more than I'd ever lifted before & after failing to hit the required reps on 5+ days, 3+ days & even missing a rep on the day I had to get 1, I tested 1RMs and reset my training maxes.

There was very little overall increase, maybe 2.5kg on DL, 5kg on press, simply because I had never really pressed consistently before that, bench went down & squat stated the same

Hanley

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

After 5-6 cycles of adding 5kg to DL & squat & 2.5kg to press & bench, yes, yes I was.

So much so, that at one point my 1+ lifts were more than I'd ever lifted before & after failing to hit the required reps on 5+ days, 3+ days & even missing a rep on the day I had to get 1, I tested 1RMs and reset my training maxes.

There was very little overall increase, maybe 2.5kg on DL, 5kg on press, simply because I had never really pressed consistently before that, bench went down & squat stated the same

In the interests of full disclosure, what did your bodyweight do?

I dieted on 5/3/1 and went backwards, but didn't lose a significant amount of weight that shoudl have been a causative factor.

d'Oracle

the drifter wrote: »

i think its very fair...i knew it was going to be useless after three weeks but gave him the benifit of the doubt

But you didn't really do the programme like.
You basically did 3x5 working up to 72%, then 3x3 at 75% and the a couple of reps at 85% of your 1rm, then deloaded, then worked up to like 73% and stopped using it. That isn't doing a programme, thats doing a wave and then deciding not to do it anymore.

Common sense dictates that taking that much weight off the bar is going to have an immediate effect on 1rm at least. Its pretty clear in the book actually.

No offense like, I just don't think you can really judge the programme.
Liam now, he can give a valid appraisal.

the drifter

d'Oracle wrote: »

But you didn't really do the programme like.
You basically did 3x5 working up to 72%, then 3x3 at 75% and the a couple of reps at 85% of your 1rm, then deloaded, then worked up to like 73% and stopped using it. That isn't doing a programme, thats doing a wave and then deciding not to do it anymore.

Common sense dictates that taking that much weight off the bar is going to have an immediate effect on 1rm at least. Its pretty clear in the book actually.

No offense like, I just don't think you can really judge the programme.
Liam now, he can give a valid appraisal.

Common sense told me Smolov was better....Common sense told me that for someone who was competing 5/3/1 as a between comp cycle was a stupid idea.For someone starting....maybe...but not as a betweek comp cycle...well maybe if your happy hitting 2.5kg pr's but I wasnt...

Inspector Coptoor

Hanley wrote: »

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

After 5-6 cycles of adding 5kg to DL & squat & 2.5kg to press & bench, yes, yes I was.

So much so, that at one point my 1+ lifts were more than I'd ever lifted before & after failing to hit the required reps on 5+ days, 3+ days & even missing a rep on the day I had to get 1, I tested 1RMs and reset my training maxes.

There was very little overall increase, maybe 2.5kg on DL, 5kg on press, simply because I had never really pressed consistently before that, bench went down & squat stated the same

In the interests of full disclosure, what did your bodyweight do?

I dieted on 5/3/1 and went backwards, but didn't lose a significant amount of weight that shoudl have been a causative factor.

In the course of 5/3/1, my bw went from
-100kg in June 2009 to 119.1kg (huge bulk on over 6000 cals per day, lifting 4x per week with no conditioning) in Dec 2009
*I realize this was a clusterf*ck now, I didn't then)

-109.7kg in Late Feb 2010 (dropped 10kg leading into 1st PL comp)

- 108kg in Aug 2010 when I stopped 5/3/1 & started IP programming to a 10 year low of 95.7kg in March 2011 & I was 96.5kg on July 24 2011 for GPC nationals

Currently floating between 99-101kg

d'Oracle

the drifter wrote: »

Common sense told me Smolov was better....Common sense told me that for someone who was competing 5/3/1 as a between comp cycle was a stupid idea.For someone starting....maybe...but not as a betweek comp cycle...well maybe if your happy hitting 2.5kg pr's but I wasnt...

Erm.....So why the fúck did you do it in the first place then?
I mean if it was common sense that this would not prepare you adequately for your sport why waste 4 weeks not doing it?

If common sense told you to do Smolov, why the hell did you do 5/3/1?

the drifter

d'Oracle wrote: »

Erm.....So why the fúck did you do it then?

I made a mistake!

nilster

It was 14 months that I'll never get back!

Did you keep a log here or anyone else that I can read? I have a lot of questions I'd ask, but I'll spare you if you've already written it down elsewhere.

Thanks!

Inspector Coptoor

nilster wrote: »

It was 14 months that I'll never get back!

Did you keep a log here or anyone else that I can read? I have a lot of questions I'd ask, but I'll spare you if you've already written it down elsewhere.

Thanks!

I did keep a log here and on another site til recently.

I only had a log here for about 18 months so not a huge amount of 5/3/1 in it but it's still here somewhere if you search my posts for it.

The other site was shut down and over 4 years of logging was lost. Sad face

Any questions, fire away here or by pm or just search for 5/3/1 threads.

deadlybuzzman

Hanley wrote: »

YEah... he's such a selfish lover

No one hear who's done 5/3/1, save maybe 1 person has had a good exp on it.

now I feel special
As much as I like it I believe it to be just a programme to make good progress at increasing a persons overall level of strength in the 5-10rep range. Its definitely not something Id think would be suited to helping someones 1rm coming up to a competition.
Ill vary it and every few weeks do a few singles just to let my body get used to lifting the heavier weight and to see how it translates from a 5rm but thats only for the craic, the rep range for progress comes for me anyway at 5-9 reps. Hence it put it alongside starting strength as opposed to an actual powerlifting programme.
1 key thing though regardless of the programme is to buy into it, if you dont have confidence in it and dont think it will work then it wont-same as walking up to the bar for a 1rm and thinking youre not going to get it

blah88

Hanley wrote: »

In the interests of full disclosure, what did your bodyweight do?

I dieted on 5/3/1 and went backwards, but didn't lose a significant amount of weight that shoudl have been a causative factor.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/lmhmn/my_epic_fail_with_leangainsif/

I think you'll find that interesting. Apparently 5/3/1 isn't a good cutting routine. The first response is from Martin Berkhan. Makes sense. From all the reading I'v done and from personal experience the key to maintaining muscle/strength whilst dieting is to keep the intensity high, volume low. On 5/3/1 there are some weeks where you lift as little as 60% of your 1 rep max. This just gives your muscles a reason to disappear.

According to Lyle McDonald you could maintain strength/ size in any specific bodypart with as little as 1 set, once a week, as long as the intensity is high. I think 4-8 reps would be the best range to stay in.

nilster

Any questions, fire away

From the 5/3/1 discussions I've read so far (2008-2009), I feel like there are some common misconceptions/errors people make when starting the program. So my first question would be, do you feel like you succumbed to any of the following?

Going all out on all final works sets, every session, every week
Often skipping the deload week
Not starting as light as recommended
Starting light but adding more weight between cycles than called for
Doing more assistance volume than called for
Often making several large changes to the program rather than plugging away at one incarnation for awhile

Because it sounds like you're a competitive lifter (I am not), have you gone back and looked at 5/3/1 for Powerlifting too see if it offered any additional insight that might have helped you out?

I believe it to be just a programme to make good progress at increasing a persons overall level of strength in the 5-10rep range.

This wouldn't surprise me or necessarily bum me out.

Hanley

blah88 wrote: »

http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/lmhmn/my_epic_fail_with_leangainsif/

I think you'll find that interesting. Apparently 5/3/1 isn't a good cutting routine. The first response is from Martin Berkhan. Makes sense. From all the reading I'v done and from personal experience the key to maintaining muscle/strength whilst dieting is to keep the intensity high, volume low. On 5/3/1 there are some weeks where you lift as little as 60% of your 1 rep max. This just gives your muscles a reason to disappear.

According to Lyle McDonald you could maintain strength/ size in any specific bodypart with as little as 1 set, once a week, as long as the intensity is high. I think 4-8 reps would be the best range to stay in.

Well Wendler originally pimped it as the program he used while dieting and do tonnes of hill sprints to get in shape...

I disagree with Lyle on his assertation to the extent that in a highly trained person it's just not possible to lose mass and maintain 100% strength. Now you won't lose EVERYTHING and high intensity is probably the best way to maximise retention, but it's alwyas hard to interpret what Lyle's saying unless oyu know his context.

deadlybuzzman

nilster wrote: »

This wouldn't surprise me or necessarily bum me out.

doesnt bum me out at all-quite the opposite, its great when you can see progress from week to week. A PR is a PR

Inspector Coptoor

nilster wrote: »

. So my first question would be, do you feel like you succumbed to any of the following?

Going all out on all final works sets, every session, every week

I would have been guilty of this for the simple reason that changes hadnt been made by Wendler at that time.

nilster wrote: »

Often skipping the deload week

Never skipped the deload week

nilster wrote: »

Not starting as light as recommended

No, I always started with a training max of 90% of what was then my current 1RM

nilster wrote: »

Starting light but adding more weight between cycles than called for

No.

nilster wrote: »

Doing more assistance volume than called for

No

nilster wrote: »

Often making several large changes to the program rather than plugging away at one incarnation for awhile

No, I stuck at it for 14 months without deviating.

nilster wrote: »

Because it sounds like you're a competitive lifter (I am not), have you gone back and looked at 5/3/1 for Powerlifting too see if it offered any additional insight that might have helped you out?

I have competed three times and I wouldnt be competing at a very high standard.
best lifts at 100kg are 155kg/107.5kg/215kg

and yes, I have gone back and looked at 5/3/1 for powerlifting but I wont be running it ever again myself.
Ive been there, done that, gone to a 5/3/1 seminar, met and chatted with Wendler, got a signed 5/3/1 book, got the ebook.
I really couldnt have tried it out any more.

I stand by my point that its a programme built either for natural people who are into GPP or lifters with chemical help looking to compete.

I dont think it can work for a raw competitive lifter.