Confederate Flag

steddyeddy · 22-07-2011 9:09pm

Layne Numerous Gun wrote: »

Seen this is a chipper in Athlone. Wonder would some people from the states find this offensive here?

Yes lived in the states and its really asociated with hilly billys and american unionists (yes they do exist) its also asociated with the white supremacists. I have seen some people here who shall remain nameless using it as his avater.

By the way like a lot of things like this the people who use this flag to express hate have little idea of the real meaning.

Mr. Denton · 22-07-2011 9:16pm

pablomakaveli wrote: »

This is the Confederate flag that was actually used by the Confederacy. The version we're all familiar with wasn't used.

Actually they had a variety of flags (ranging from "The Stars and Bars" to the "Bloodstained Banner" and several iterations inbetween). The one you show there was only adopted near the end of the American Civil War.

But yes there never was a full 'X' flag in use either.

Adamisconfused · 22-07-2011 9:21pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

The flag is a white supremacist flag.

Its not even a valid flag of anywhere anymore.

And remember the question wasnt whether irish people with no knowledge of US history would be offended, the question was whether any Americans would find it offensive.

But anyway I originally answered that it depended on the context but probably not, They'd be curious certainly.

The flag is almost that of the Confederate States of America and not some racist, supremacist rag. Nothing more than that. The descendants of those who fought for State's rights can no more prevent supremacists from claiming it as we can stop the IRA using the tricolour or the Brits stop Loyalists using the Union Flag.

If they find it offensive, they're idiots with a very simplistic view of their own history. As for it being a flag of nowhere, check out Mississippi.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Flag_of_Mississippi.svg

steddyeddy · 22-07-2011 9:23pm

Adamisconfused wrote: »

The flag is almost that of the confederate states and not some racist, supremacist rag. Nothing more than that. The descendants of those who fought for State's rights can no more prevent supremacists from claiming it as we can stop the IRA using the tricolour or the Brits stop Loyalists using the Union Flag.

If they find it offensive, they're idiots with a very simplistic view of their own history. As for it being a flag of nowhere, check out Mississippi.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Flag_of_Mississippi.svg

I think their more offended by the underlying psychology of the people who mean it to represent something racist.

Son Of A Vidic · 22-07-2011 9:24pm

Superbus wrote: »

Why would people from the states be in a chipper in Athlone?

Possibly due to a wonderful concept called air travel.

byhookorbycrook · 22-07-2011 9:26pm

The flag is used by Cork GAA fans, every so often someone in the media tries to make an issue out of it.

InTheTrees · 22-07-2011 9:36pm

Adamisconfused wrote: »

The flag is almost that of the Confederate States of America and not some racist, supremacist rag.

The confederacy allowed slave ownership and trading.

Racist, supremacist.

pablomakaveli · 22-07-2011 9:40pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

The confederacy allowed slave ownership and trading.

Racist, supremacist.

To be fair a lot of Western European countries did as well.

B0X · 22-07-2011 9:43pm

I really like the design of the confederate flag, think it's more interesting than most. Unfortunate that it was used by a bunch of racist bigots though.

InTheTrees · 22-07-2011 9:47pm

pablomakaveli wrote: »

To be fair a lot of Western European countries did as well.

Into the mid 19th century? I dont think so.

I didnt think there was slavery in Europe after about 1500? I could be wrong.

pablomakaveli · 22-07-2011 9:53pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

Into the mid 19th century? I dont think so.

I didnt think there was slavery in Europe after about 1500? I could be wrong.

A lot of them still captured and sold slaves well after the 1500's
. Does giving up slavery before the 19th century mean that those countries weren't as bad as the Confederacy in their use of slaves?

SEPT 23 1989 · 22-07-2011 9:54pm

KeithAFC · 22-07-2011 10:00pm

Always mystify, mislead, and surprise the enemy, if possible; and when you strike and overcome him, never let up in the pursuit so long as your men have strength to follow; for an army routed, if hotly pursued, becomes panic-stricken, and can then be destroyed by half their number - General Stonewall Jackson.

Dudess · 22-07-2011 10:19pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

Well put it this way. It would be the equivalent of you walking into a bar in Boston and finding it decorated with Unionist banners, and banners proclaiming the superiority of protestants.

It most definitely would not.

southsiderosie · 22-07-2011 10:44pm

Dudess wrote: »

It most definitely would not.

LOL, you would be hard pressed to find loyalist paraphernalia in a bar in Boston!

It would be like walking into a chipper called "For Cod and Ulster" in the middle of Kansas, and them handing you your grub in a box with a big red hand on it. Most people wouldn't really get it, and the ones who did would be more "WTF" than anything else.

W.Shakes-Beer · 22-07-2011 11:40pm

My amp has a confederate flag draped across the front of it.

Mainly because some of the greatest music ever came from down south. YEEEEE HAAAAAAW!

Hotblack Desiato · 22-07-2011 11:52pm

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

wth is unionist food?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/05/nominations_close.html wrote:

I wasn't there, but my spies report a DUP strategy meeting at Wards Cafe in Bangor with Messrs Morrow, Poots and McCrea talking tactics over tray bakes. Where would unionists be without tray bakes?

.

jam_mac_jam · 22-07-2011 11:55pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

Into the mid 19th century? I dont think so.

I didnt think there was slavery in Europe after about 1500? I could be wrong.

Who do you think sold them all the slaves? Do you think that they moved there by themselves. Slavery was outlawed by Britain in 1807. 1500? I dont think so.

Gyalist · 23-07-2011 12:31am

In 1990 I drove from Dublin, with a group of friends from college, to a 21st birthday party in Ballinasloe. En route we stopped in Athlone to stretch our legs and we went into this fast food place (could well have been the same place mentioned in this post) that was decorated with the Confederate flag.

I found the whole thing incongruous, especially the fact that they were also playing country music.

Dionysus · 23-07-2011 12:28pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Who do you think sold them all the slaves? Do you think that they moved there by themselves. Slavery was outlawed by Britain in 1807. 1500? I dont think so.

Good point although technically it was the slave trade which was outlawed in the British parliament in 1807 (three further acts, in 1824, 1843 and 1873, had to be passed to strengthen this ban); slavery itself wasn't outlawed until the Slavery Abolition Act 1833. Even then in practical terms it was really only slaves below the age of six who were freed; slaves above that age were redesignated as "apprentices", a point which is often overlooked.

Furthermore, even in 1833 parts of the British Empire were excluded from this abolition, most noticeably (and unsurprisingly) slavery was permitted to continue after 1833 in all possessions and territories ruled by the British East India Company (i.e. slavery was permitted in the massive Indian subcontinent after 1833)

In other words, what was going on in the Southern states when the US Civil War began in 1861 wasn't the great aberration which was centuries behind the "civilised" world that some revisionists would like to portray it as.

Mike 1972 · 23-07-2011 12:59pm

B0X wrote: »

I really like the design of the confederate flag, think it's more interesting than most. Unfortunate that it was used by a bunch of racist bigots though.

How are you with this ?

hatz7 · 23-07-2011 1:12pm

Layne Numerous Gun wrote: »

Seen this is a chipper in Athlone. Wonder would some people from the states find this offensive here?

No they wouldn't be offended, at all, whatsoever,

Teyla Emmagan · 23-07-2011 1:26pm

They use the same boxes in my local chipper in Dublin.

I was in there with a friend from Texas a while back who seemed horrified, but not offended. I don't think he found their chicken recipe very 'authentic'

Hotblack Desiato · 24-07-2011 1:16pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

How are you with this ?

The Swastika Laundry was around well before the Nazi Party was founded.

The Finnish Air Force used a swastika as a symbol between 1918 (again, before the Nazis existed) and 1945 when the Allies forced them to change it.

Before that, it was used as a good luck symbol for thousands of years.

Mike 1972 · 24-07-2011 1:31pm

ninja900 wrote: »

The Swastika Laundry was around well before the Nazi Party was founded.

I am well aware of that.

Nonetheless In this day and age if one displays a Swastika in public 98 out of 100 people arent going to think of the Finnish Air Force (There are several European countries where doing so is likely to gety one arrested)

mikemac · 24-07-2011 1:40pm

If any poor lambs are bothered by it then stay away from Páirc Uí Chaoimh when Cork are playing a big game

Killer Wench · 24-07-2011 7:50pm

im invisible wrote: »

the question is, would a black americian find it offensive?

im sure there'd be some conflicted feelings going on anyway...

I would, yes.

First, that is the Confederate Battle Flag which is different from the Confederate Flag. Secondly, in the South, the Battle Flag represents the Southern identity and blah blah blah, outside of the South, the Battle Flag is used by the KKK and other White Supremacist groups.

Growing up in the Midwest, you would see plenty of pick-up trucks with the Battle Flag in the window; I drove past a house with the Battle Flag waving and a bunch of skin heads sitting on the porch.

I would find it offensive because the Fried Chicken we know today is the product of slavery. Scottish immigrants brought over the concept of frying foods, and slaves went about adapting chicken and seasonings to make it into a staple of their diets. Over time, it became something associated with the South.

Fried Chicken created by slaves; the Battle Flag a representation of slavery.

pablomakaveli · 24-07-2011 7:57pm

Killer Wench wrote: »

I would, yes.

First, that is the Confederate Battle Flag which is different from the Confederate Flag. Secondly, in the South, the Battle Flag represents the Southern identity and blah blah blah, outside of the South, the Battle Flag is used by the KKK and other White Supremacist groups.

Growing up in the Midwest, you would see plenty of pick-up trucks with the Battle Flag in the window; I drove past a house with the Battle Flag waving and a bunch of skin heads sitting on the porch.

I would find it offensive because the Fried Chicken we know today is the product of slavery. Scottish immigrants brought over the concept of frying foods, and slaves went about adapting chicken and seasonings to make it into a staple of their diets. Over time, it became something associated with the South.

Fried Chicken created by slaves; the Battle Flag a representation of slavery.

Isn't fried chicken popular with black people in america?

Killer Wench · 24-07-2011 8:10pm

It is definitely a stereotype with a strong element of truth to it and that is due to its history. But, yes, it is certainly popular within my family and those that I know. You can go to just about any Black family reunion or event, and you will have Fried Chicken as an option.

Killer Wench · 24-07-2011 8:16pm

ninja900 wrote: »

The Swastika Laundry was around well before the Nazi Party was founded.

The Finnish Air Force used a swastika as a symbol between 1918 (again, before the Nazis existed) and 1945 when the Allies forced them to change it.

Before that, it was used as a good luck symbol for thousands of years.

It depends on the angle of the cross. The Nazis took the symbol and turned it 45 degrees; thus, if the symbol is perfectly aligned at the right angle, then that holds the traditional meaning. In inverted symbol is the Nazi symbol.

I found it humorous walking around Belfast and seeing the traditional good luck sign next to the BNP tags.

Confederate Flag

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