Gay Pride - Embarrassing or Empowering?

sock puppet

Daroxtar wrote: »

But I reckon if you were a straight fella on your way home from work and you had to cross the road just as the parade was being filmed by RTE cameras then it could be fairly embarassing

Especially it was Hotpants Saturday at work.

prinz

Johnnymcg wrote: »

Every day is a straight pride parade
Then - you can have a straight pride parade

Either every day is a straight pride parade or it isn't... the usual nonsense. I don't walk to the shops every day while 'celebrating pride in my sexuality', I'd imagine most homosexual people don't spend 365 days a year thinking about how proud they are to be gay either.

This 'every day is a straight pride parade' is a massive load of twaddle that gets peddled with regularity.

The pride parade is an irrelevant excuse for some people to do a whole lot of nothing. Counter-productive tbh, and again am friends with gay people who wouldn't go anywhere near it, because they are too busy you know, living their life.

Sleepy

diddlybit wrote: »

That's a little difficult, especially if you are one of the people that happens to be a "source of embarressment". You also cannot disentangle Pride form politics, as you said so yourself, it's necessary because we still haven't achieved full equality.

*leaves to find smallest pair of shiny hotpants imaginable and get my rainbow on*

Here's the crux of the matter though: shrill, camp behaviour , while more commonly associated with the gay community, is just that: behaviour. Others are fully entitled to judge you for your actions. In fact, if we could get society to realise that it's the only thing a person should be judged on, there'd be no need for Pride.

I couldn't give 2 figs who anyone sleeps with but shrieking like a drama queen or bitching like a primadonna I can't stand in anyone: man, woman, child or dog and I'd make no apologies for that.

I presume it's a failing of society at large that a large portion of gay men feel compelled to act in this fashion in order to live up to a stereotype (in the same way that it's a failing of Irish society that so many women in this country can delude themselves that orange skin is attractive).

Annasopra

sock puppet wrote: »

Especially it was Hotpants Saturday at work.

Do you wear hotpants to work every Saturday?

Aishae

diddlybit wrote: »

*leaves to find smallest pair of shiny hotpants imaginable and get my rainbow on*

i am so stealing 'get my rainbow on'!

as for the parade - it seems that most folks assume pride is about being proud to be gay. thats incorrect. its primarily about highlighting that they are there and want / need equal status.
but of course some dress up for the pride parade (and the media focuses on this) <- the vast majority do not dress up in pink sparkly tutus and hotpants. theyre in normal clothes. but its the latter which is focused on. you cant really say they are eg giving pride a bad name. that is who they are. who is anyone to tell them not to be who they are?

i do think that pride falls short of teaching people what it is for and what its sought by the people marching. unless spectators go and google it to learn more.

however that doesnt mean i think pride has no use and should be done away with. it shouldnt. gay folks and other members of the LGBT community do not have equal status and it shouldnt be brushed under the carpet. but a revision on educating people as to the purpose of pride might be called for

diddlybit

Sleepy wrote: »

I presume it's a failing of society at large that a large portion of gay men feel compelled to act in this fashion in order to live up to a stereotype (in the same way that it's a failing of Irish society that so many women in this country can delude themselves that orange skin is attractive).

Really? That many? We are obviously living in different countries.

alex73

Gay Pride... Gays fight for equal rights for Jobs, legal entitlements (as well they should have).. They they parade once a year to show how different they are from the rest of us. Being gay is no crime or a sin. But why do some people want to make their sexuality define their life.

Azureus

The idea of Pride doesnt bother me-in fact most people I know going to it are straight and my gay friends tend to avoid it like the plague as it lumps them intob a stereotype that they are trying to get away from.

I dont think that gay people can complain about stereotypes and straight peoples perceptions of them if they act like queens and make a point of differenciating themselves for a parade, but sure more power to them-its fun to watch and doesnt bother me personally!

Chorcai

I think it's a bit out dated now and can't achive much in this day and age. So what if you're camp/ straight acting/ bi/ etc Marching around the country saying we a gay when 99% of Ireland accepts and know of gay people isn't going to get much.

A differant way of doing things are needed.

Chuck Stone

Duddy wrote: »

I remember at that huge civil marriage march a few years back, guest speaker Brendan Courtney stands up (after some moving speeches by gay couples and activists) and says "WHO'S GETTING THEIR HOLE TONIGHT?!!?"

If I were gay I think that would really piss me off.

Johnnymcg wrote: »

"Nancy queers dressed like morons giving the rest of us a bad name" - his words. He despises the Louis Spence's of the world because they're an embarrassment to what he is.

This is homophobic

Could you explain to me how this is homopohobic?

I find it confusing how being a gay man seems to be somehow coupled with some men acting like a caricature of drama queen or female prostitute.

Isn't that more like effenimophobia rather than homophobia?

El Horseboxo

I've 2 gay mates and they hate the parades. They said it's the only time of the year that they actually get any shít about their sexuality. Mainly due to all the marketing and promotion of it portraying the stereotypical homosexual.

tim_holsters

Gays have had to deal with so much bigoted prejudice down the years that having a festival once every year is the least they deserve. To think decriminalization in this country happened less than 20 years ago. Fúcking retarded.

philologos

OP: I don't really care and I don't see much point of a parade on the basis of sexuality. It would be an absurdity if there was a parade for heterosexuality, perhaps it would be even deemed inappropriate. For me sexuality isn't an identity, it's just something as to whom you are attracted to on a sexual level. Ultimately it is up to the city council and the Government to decide what they think should or shouldn't be held.

Dudess

Some gay people do make too much of a song and dance (more than likely a Kylie one :pac:) of the fact that they're gay despite most people not giving a sh1t, but I hate the way that's then used to dismiss genuine grievances held by gay people - they do not have equal rights in all senses. No amount of "I'm not homophobic but gay people are accepted in society now and should keep quiet about being gay" changes that. Plus, in many parts of the world, gay people still face terrible prejudice - not just in places like Uganda, but right here on this island. Just because Dublin is an ok place to live if you're gay, doesn't mean Listowel is. And I don't particularly buy into "Oh Ireland, 'tis terrible repressed still" stuff.

Seachmall

tim_holsters wrote: »

Gays have had to deal with so much bigoted prejudice down the years that having a festival once every year is the least they deserve.

To be honest; that's bull****.

Those who were persecuted deserve some sort of reimbursement (although I can't of anything that would qualify as reimbursement to someone who was punished for being themselves) but not everyone who is gay does. You can't just group all gay people together and say they were all victimized, to me that demeans what the actual victims went through.

Being gay doesn't make you a victim-by-proxy. As far as I'm concerned being gay says absolutely nothing about you nor anything about what you do and don't deserve. Saying someone deserves something because of their sexuality is the labeling and grouping that causes these problems in the first place.

Sleepy

diddlybit wrote: »

Really? That many? We are obviously living in different countries.

Perhaps "significant minority" may have been a better choice of words? There's certainly enough gay guys acting in an annoyingly camp fashion that it's become an unfortunate (and inaccurate) stereotype for all gay men.

Would you even debate the point with me that the majority of Irish women wearing fake tan?

A protest about discrimination should be about that discrimination; a demand for it to be ended. A public display of the stereotypes held about the group being discriminated against serves no other purpose than to reinforce those stereotypes.

tim_holsters

Seachmall wrote: »

To be honest; that's bull****.

Those who were persecuted deserve some sort of reimbursement (although I can't of anything that would qualify as reimbursement to someone who was punished for being themselves) but not everyone who is gay does. You can't just group all gay people together and say they were all victimized, to me that demeans what the actual victims went through.

Being gay doesn't make you a victim-by-proxy. As far as I'm concerned being gay says absolutely nothing about you nor anything about what you do and don't deserve. Saying someone deserves something because of their sexuality is the labeling and grouping that causes these problems in the first place.

Yeah well, to this day Gays in this country don't have equality. That's bullshít.

philologos

Dudess wrote: »

Some gay people do make too much of a song and dance (more than likely a Kylie one :pac:) of the fact that they're gay despite most people not giving a sh1t, but I hate the way that's then used to dismiss genuine grievances held by gay people - they do not have equal rights in all senses. No amount of "I'm not homophobic but gay people are accepted in society now and should keep quiet about being gay" changes that. Plus, in many parts of the world, gay people still face terrible prejudice - not just in places like Uganda, but right here on this island. Just because Dublin is an ok place to live if you're gay, doesn't mean Listowel is. And I don't particularly buy into "Oh Ireland, 'tis terrible repressed still" stuff.

Nobody is saying that LGBT people shouldn't organise politically and lobby the State as other interest groups in society do. What one could question is how the Pride parade actually furthers this in a tangible sense.

diddlybit

Sleepy wrote: »

Would you even debate the point with me that the majority of Irish women wearing fake tan?

Nope, wouldn't debate this. But would debate that the majority use so much as to make themselves "orange".

A protest about discrimination should be about that discrimination; a demand for it to be ended. A public display of the stereotypes held about the group being discriminated against serves no other purpose than to reinforce those stereotypes.

Last years theme was "We are Family Too" examining the lack of LGBT rights affording to families. 22,000 people attending of which I can guarentee included teachers, civil servants, old people, young people, students, families, business people and the unemployed. They all dressed up in miniscule clothing and covered themselves in body glitter. The women all had fo-hawks and the men, even if they did not have one before, adopted a lisp for the day. None of them normally dress/act like that but sure, if you didn't look like a sterotype, how the hell would all the confused straight people looking at the parade know that you were gay. Sometimes a rainbow scarf just ain't enough. :eek:

You should have seen it, a sight to behold 22,000 sterotypes walking through the streets of Dublin. They were cleaning up the glitter for days.

efb

Right as a gay man I feel that Gay Pride is a good thing and an important thing for me and Gay people to be Proud of and to celebrate.

It was the Stonewall riots that sparked the Gay Rights movement and it was the Drag Queens and the rent boys that stood up for them. While the closet cases skulked back to their wives.

This started off the civil rights movement that began to gain gay people rights and society's acceptance of homosexuality, so I will be in my civvies marching on Saturday but I'm damn proud to march with the Drag Queens and the Twinks.

There are lots of groups whose behaviours upset me in society, like car enthusiasts for example. I can say well I'm ok with the guy who meticulously polishes his classic each Saturday but I don't like boy racers cars and their dress (I don't) but I acknowledge that they are entitled to dress that way and make their 1l cars look hideous. Once they are not infringing on my rights I can't feel like I can impose a certain lifestyle on them.

And it's great to hear that so many people have no issue with gay people, and for younger gays, the struggle is made easier, but still lives are being made difficult in work and elsewhere by people who don't agree with homosexuality and older people who are gay can't come out by the obstacles put in their place by people who, are in powerful positions, and don't agree with homosexuality.

The fight for equality is far from over, and I will keep marching while the inequality still exists.

philologos

efb wrote: »

The fight for equality is far from over, and I will keep marching while the inequality still exists.

How do you feel the Pride parade furthers that aim though?

epgc3fyqirnbsx

I've always thought them to be counter-productive as they highlight differences rather than strive for equality

I would imagine that if I was gay I would tell you that it is just one aspect of my personality, ie I am a man who happens to be gay, not a "gay man"

That said they look like they're having good craic and aren't hurting anyone, but I reckon it would irritate the hell outta me if I was gay

prinz

Shiloh Putrid Cocaine wrote: »

I've always thought them to be counter-productive as they highlight differences rather than strive for equality..

This. It reinforces the notion of defining yourself by your sexuality.

Mike 1972

Chorcai wrote: »

Marching around the country saying we a gay when 99% of Ireland accepts and know of gay people isn't going to get much.

When that day comes I might agree with you

Sleepy

diddlybit wrote: »

Nope, wouldn't debate this. But would debate that the majority use so much as to make themselves "orange".



Last years theme was "We are Family Too" examining the lack of LGBT rights affording to families. 22,000 people attending of which I can guarentee included teachers, civil servants, old people, young people, students, families, business people and the unemployed. They all dressed up in miniscule clothing and covered themselves in body glitter. The women all had fo-hawks and the men, even if they did not have one before, adopted a lisp for the day. None of them normally dress/act like that but sure, if you didn't look like a sterotype, how the hell would all the confused straight people looking at the parade know that you were gay. Sometimes a rainbow scarf just ain't enough. :eek:

You should have seen it, a sight to behold 22,000 sterotypes walking through the streets of Dublin. They were cleaning up the glitter for days.

I'd have gone for banners myself but hey, maybe I'm just a traditionalist. To me, a protest march is about proving the numbers that agree with your demand for political change, not about proving what a nuisance you can be to the street sweepers.

The attention whoring does more to detract from the serious issues than to promote them, imho.

Sleepy

efb wrote: »

The fight for equality is far from over, and I will keep marching while the inequality still exists.

Why not do it in a fashion more likely to persuade than annoy?

efb

philologos wrote: »

How do you feel the Pride parade furthers that aim though?

Like all marches and mass movement of people do to highlight and further their cause. it raises their voice, makes them heard as a collective.

People power can move mountains. This is why people march, to instigate change.

Pride, again is a celebration of what we have achieved, and a push for equality.

It reinforces the notion of defining yourself by your sexuality.

We are denied rights because of our sexuality, we march to say their is nothing wrong with our sexuality, and we our proud of it and we wont hide or pretend there is something wrong with that.

Women marched because of their gender, they were being discriminated against, Black people their race, and single fathers, because of their marital status. These things denied them equal rights, they march and to protest against the discrimination and to say their is nothing wrong with who they are, because of their gender, race or marital status.

efb

Sleepy wrote: »

Why not do it in a fashion more likely to persuade than annoy?

annoy whom?

Dudess

Well if it's too OTT it can come across as attention-seeking, and perhaps is less likely to be taken seriously. I would apply that to any march, not just a Pride one. E.g. I condemn Israeli occupation fully, but there's still something that kinda bugs me about a lot of the protestors when the Palestine solidarity movement holds marches on a Saturday. Bit too full of self righteousness IMO.

man.about.town

rochey84 wrote: »

Its about achieving equal status, as it stands, gay people cannot get Married, or adopt children in the eyes of the state, Gay Pride is initally about that! When straight people are treated like second class citizens then maybe there will be a straight pride parade

it looks fun and theres nothing wrong with that but if thats the reason its not a very good parade. from what i see it would have a negative effect on trying to show maturity in having a child or getting married.