Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Cork GAA Discussion Thread
Options
Comments
-
CCRI have huge work put in and for a school team its beyond comprehension
Only day they were not available over xmas was xmas day. weekend away in training camp and all. serious stuff0 -
CCRI have huge work put in and for a school team its beyond comprehension
Only day they were not available over xmas was xmas day. weekend away in training camp and all. serious stuff
There better prepared than the cork minor footballers,i watched them train twice and play last night had a look for the 1st 20,not impressed at all .
Hamiltion in the hurling are just as prepared in the hurling.You cant beat top class coaching.Hamilton were better prepared than the limerick senior hurlers in truth.0 -
half time in ET Dingle 0-10 CCRI 1-50
-
-
Dingle through. 1 all cork semi and 1 all kerry semi0
-
Advertisement
-
Dingle 0-12 CCRI 1-60
-
-
De La Salle team from today attached. Let me know if you need help with the clubs.
Macroom always looked in control on a miserable day in Rathmore.0 -
Dan Collins(Hazlewood) who as a ref for a number of years passed away today. Lot of people from North Cork and Avondhu would know him well I say.
Very nice man and good Ref.
RIP.0 -
The_Kew_Tour wrote: »Dan Collins(Hazlewood) who as a ref for a number of years passed away today. Lot of people from North Cork and Avondhu would know him well I say.
Very nice man and good Ref.
RIP.[/quot
Jesus awful to hear ,i know of him.
A huge huge loss.
May he rest in peace.0 -
Advertisement
-
-
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »The_Kew_Tour wrote: »Dan Collins(Hazlewood) who as a ref for a number of years passed away today. Lot of people from North Cork and Avondhu would know him well I say.
Very nice man and good Ref.
RIP.[/quot
Jesus awful to hear ,i know of him.
A huge huge loss.
May he rest in peace.
That is awful sad news. Am from a mile over the road from him originally. He is/was a legend. Lovely man.
RIP0 -
On a day when the emotion and jubilation of the joy and fuliment sport creates in that in 24 hours,in that West Cork had two superb wins against all the odds in st facthnas and hammies with stars of the future,it shows how such a sad ,loss can equally be felt within Gaa,with this sad news,and brings life back in to perspective.thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »
That is awful sad news. Am from a mile over the road from him originally. He is/was a legend. Lovely man.
RIP
Not just North cork ,but Cork GAA and life in general lost a great man.
Played with castlemagner,lisgriffin,buttevant,liscaroll,mallow vocational schools etc he made a great impression wherever he went.
He won north cork medals with clyda I belive.Im sure they will have a minute silence for him saturday like many.A super referee also.0 -
The_Kew_Tour wrote: »Is that Mallows main pitch ya?
Sorry ,for late reply,just saw that now.
Yeah it was the main ptich .They had mcgrath cup sunday,cork minor hurlers v rochestown monday night,hamilton and dungarvan that day in harty cup,that night cork u21 v tralee,i believe there was too munster b and c games there today,cork minors play ard scoil tommorw in hurling(not sure but I doubt ard scoil will play on the other ptich as they have I believe a few injuries ,and dont want more with a huge harty cup semifinal in mallow on the 1st.,so they want the main one I would think.
That is a lot of games on the main ptich.It held up well though.The ground staff do an amazing job there.0 -
Anyone at the dingle chriost ri game ?or hear about the black card.
There seems to be huge controversy with the referee ?id like to know more about it0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Anyone at the dingle chriost ri game ?or hear about the black card.
There seems to be huge controversy with the referee ?id like to know more about it
http://www.livegaelic.com/news/black-card-controversy-schools-game/0 -
Thanks for that ,a good read.
It was only a matter of time before there was a f**ck up I suppose.It would be harsh on dingle if it was replayed it sounds like the game was over by then.
I wasnt at that game but between shane hourigan last week and fergal horgan ,i have never seen such poor referring in schools games.
At one stage a hamilton lad was dragged and pulled ,no free.What was worse,was he tried to atone for that mistake ,a minute later a dungarvan lad barely made contact ,and he made a free in .
There was at least four poor calls.0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Thanks for that ,a good read.
It was only a matter of time before there was a f**ck up I suppose.It would be harsh on dingle if it was replayed it sounds like the game was over by then.
You can consider it a bespoke piece especially for you since I had forgotten about it until I saw your post!
Kerrigan actually had another tweet up about it yesterday - the one that prompted Shane Stapleton to ask him what happened - but he seems to have taken it down. Wonder if someone told him he'd be better off not mentioning it.thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »I wasnt at that game but between shane hourigan last week and fergal horgan ,i have never seen such poor referring in schools games.
At one stage a hamilton lad was dragged and pulled ,no free.What was worse,was he tried to atone for that mistake ,a minute later a dungarvan lad barely made contact ,and he made a free in .
There was at least four poor calls.
Poor calls I think we're going to have to put up with unfortunately, not even knowing the rules is different gravy altogether though.0 -
Yeah fresher last year, and was in the stand at the Clare/Limerick game at the weekend while UCC were playing Mary I.
Who's the Cork lad playing full back with UL, Sheehan? Any good?
A piece from the waterford thread on jack sheehan ul full backDeise_2012 wrote: »He was very impressive, Maurice Shan couldn't get anything off him and had to be moved, they kept swapping Shane Walsh, Jamie Baron, Jake Dillon into full forward but had no luck in there. I'm surprised I've never heard of him before that game. Has he featured on any of the County panels before?
It be interesting to see if he gets a fitzgibbon cup run,and if so against top forwards how he does .
Be great if he was like seamus harnedy in hes run at fitzgibbon.Unlikey ,with cahalane and cadoagan in the panel but still he can bring himself on the radar with good games.0 -
I saw Clare train last Tuesday week night the Hurlers ,in Limerick,for two solid hours from .A panel of around 35 that night,all the big names,Kelly,Donnellan ,Ryan ,with a lot of young potential stars like Flanagan,Duggan etc.
I have watched many teams train,and some at intercounty,are just piss balling about in terms of what they think is "Intensity".I have seen college teams train harder.
They fool no one but themselves.
Clare don't mess about.It is right from the start to the last.Even there warm up is intense .
People have this myth that any team can win an allreland by just getting lucky in the year.When you watch Clare train,or kilkenny in the past and the intensity they do it,it is far from a fluke.They may have lost a battle along the way,but they won the War.
John Allen said in last Tuesdays paper in an interview he lacked the ruthleness that some managers have ,and Limerick players emailed him thanks for "training was "fun ,begs belief.If I was any County Board,looking for a manager,that interview,would not inspire me to hire him.I made a point of going to watch Clare train,just to see there intensity.He claims he's records justify he's means.
A devalued Munster title in that two home games,beat a 14 man cork ,blown out the gate by Clare,lost a league final, they should have won.
He did win All ireland with Cork,we were expected to win but ,Cork remained static and never evolved in time and like Counihan lacked the ruthless streak to bring us to the next level in he's last years.Counihan was ruthless at the start and immense credit due for that ,he had no emotion with any of the players.Crucially,when he won the all ireland ,that changed though.
Watch Davy fitz and Jim Gavin this year.It is clean slate,reputations won't carry anyone .Like Cody,your are only as good as your last game.
Gavin laid it on the table ,play hurling your choice.I won't tell you or dicate what you choose ,thats up to you.But you ain't doing both.He had to do that for the greater good of he's team .
It is likely not one Clare lad thought training that night was fun and neither did Tony Kelly hardly thought running at 5.30 am last christmas was fun on he's own in Cratloe Woods, ,but walking of ,when the ,you can clear as day see their is an appreciation and a self containment,a feeling of goodness they know ,that at end of that session, they are much better prepared than they were at start ,and that makes them do it again and again,as the end justifys the means.After intense training of any kind you always feel you are stronger than anything else anyone else throws at you,you could conquer the world.
Getting an email thanking him for training was "fun,"sweet lord.I don't know which is worse,Allen for thinking it as a kind of "Accolade or notable achievement,or the limerick lads for doing it in the first place.
Training is not meant to be fun.Did they win the All ireland?No ,they never contary to the belief they were realistic contenders ,they never were never even close to it last year.
I know it sounds grand and courteous,but my view is it is a soft mentatilty.At the end of the day,they did not win an all ireland.Would Roy Keane thank a manager for training was fun or ,espiceally if they won a secondary competition,and as much as I love it,lets be honest a provincial title like a Munster one,is secondary to an All Ireland.An all Ireland is the Holy Grail.This is not kids level,it is Senior Intercounty,you must be ruthless in all honesty.
I'd sure Davy does not want emails or Cody ,he hardly prints them of ,and frames them,he looks at 26 celtic crosses getting handed out at a function for all ireland winners in december ,and like cody that is the thanks that means so much to him.
You can be ruthless and create a, one of us mentatily ,between manager and a group and everyone is together,and still be ruthless ,contary to Allens view,as the benefit of the team always comes first.
Davys attuitde is clare are a big family ,and everyone is together.Yes a player makes a mistake,no matter who he is,he gets told so in no uncertain terms ,and will get ten press up etc , and Davy he will do anything for he's panel,but at the same time ,like cody ,he is ruthless,in training and picking a team,and unlike allen who lets emotion get in the way,Davy has two emotions passion a fear not to give a 100 per cent.In the Clare training,he demands every last inch and gets that.
People have this myth that your dinosaur,or a Dictator, if your ruthless ,or a bad person.Not at all.This lark about having tolerance and goodness is important more so than winning ,i find it strange, and do not find a conflict interest in both together ,in that I do belief they can go hand in hand,and you must be ruthless to be constantly succesful.Allen said you need a "certain madness to be an intercounty manager".I don't see being ruthless as a madness,I see it as an unquinchable hunger and Desire and Raw Passion to be a winner and do what ever is needed within the rules to achieve that.That is something to admire ,not resent in a manager.
Surely a unity,and togetherness like Clare,the All blacks,Munster ,have tolerance,incluivsness and goodness within,yet make no mistake about it,are ruthless in the pursit of there ultimate aim.I don't that is wrong,in the win all mentality.As proved against Ireland,with the last play of the game,they want to win every game .
Now there is a line,taking enhancing performing drugs in sport like Lance Armstrong,is an example where ,tolerance,incluisveness,and goodess are values not present,and go out the window in hes win all menatity to achieve the goal.He crossed the line .And that I am totally opposed to,and always will be.That is a different kettle of fish.
Fr Bertie Troy,and Canon Michael O' Brien were two great Iconic managers,and ruthless when they need to be,but also were extremely good tolerant,men and very holy men,and brought tolerance and goodness to Cork teams but combined it with a ruthless,bloody minded streak to win.Fr.Troy ,was a gentleman,ask anyone with links to St.Colmans or Newtownshandrum or North Cork ,and had as much a deep love of people as he had for hurling,yet he was ruthless in the pursuit of glory.
When Cork won the two in a row,Troy realised one flaw,as great as Wexford were,Kilkenny would test Cork in a different way to win 3 in a row,such Troy was ruthless to change dramatically the way the 1978 team trained ,in that ,to beat kilkenny you had to keep the play,moving keep it at pace.It was not a case of don't change what is not broken,more change this or it will be broken.He had the foresight to realise this ,but the ruthless streak to dramatically change a winning team ,for the better of the team.
Cork under Allen ,unlike with Troy,did not evolve in there bid for 3 in a row,against Kilkenny,and suffered as a result,as that day we were far too predictable.Allen was not ruthless to change things,or drop Captain Pat Mulchay ,and worse still lef him get roasted by Aidan Fogary, who got 1-3,before the superb,Wayne Sherlock was used.
Sentiment and emotion ,and not ruthless to drop the captain who had struggled all year ,for a sub,who would have walked on any intercounty team in the country.
JBM, modelled Corks play in 99 on troys philopohsy to beat Kilkenny ,and even when you look at last year in thurles,JBM had Troys philosphy to beat kilkenny ,very much evident,the ball was played a pace,every time,the sliothar was kept moving,as Cork played fast ,open,direct hurling.The ball was never static,in one place,in that you see the "Sliothar Here and There "but seek it Everywhere".It never remained in the one place for very long,once Cork had possesion, in the blink of an eye ,and like the speed of a bullet it was gone.Kilkenny couldnt beat Cork because they never got enough ball.Simple really,but there was a ruthless streak to implement that game plan,away from the tried and trusted and to move outside the safety of the comfort zone,don't change whats not broken.
Cody on the field is different ,than he is off it.He is a winner.Monday he ,said was all about attuide.Every single game has a meaning and purpose with Cody,in that he has such expectations of each player every day,he always take something from it.
Players that excelled in there huge win,he will say ,I expect that ,in these games,any lad that didnt do it yesterday is on hes radar,and thats if they are lucky,they may not even get a luxury of another chance.
Clare on sunday , there young lads made a statement ,they want to be on the team,and they had a huge intensity,so much Tj Ryan was complaining about the tackling of Clare.Davy was bang on the money,welcome to the big time.People think davy is making noise again hes not.He is talking straight.Tj wanted ,respect for the team,you earn respect.I'm suprised O grady allowed TJ,says those things,thats a huge worry for limerick,TJ very much the one in control of the team,if that happens and O Grady in the backseat.
TJ Ryan 1st game ,and he makes headlines for the wrong reasons.Man up ,in fairness.That what Limerick have to face ,in most games.AS cork did ,and Harnedy showed if the ref doesnt protect you you protect yourself,and you actually earn the respect of the opponent ,rather than cry wolf after.
Cork and clare were tough,and the replay wasnt cynical,and both teams gave as good as they got.I was a huge fan of Tj Ryan as a player,but he was hardly an angel himself now ,and played well on the edge,and protected himself ,he should tell hes lads who are well able to take care of themselves to do the same.
But anyone want to see what down to earth,salt of the earth,geuine man he Cody is,watch hes interview with Gay Byrne,"the Meaning OF Life" a must see for anyone, and he holds the same values in life and is a good ,good man,and knows right from wrong,but on the field,doesnt hold back,or is not afraid to drop guys ,as he wants to win.
JBM is a gentleman,but as proven with Cusack,Coleman,Gardiner and many more through hes tereune even in 1997,etc for a gentleman and such a charismistic man ,he is ruthless.
The Legendary Micko Dwyer is a lovely man with the same values Allen and rightfully so holds,but he was ruthless,watch him on the side line during many a game.
Interestingly,and every year Munster Rubgy,quailfy for the knockouts,there be it ,with O'Gara,Mick Galwaey,Jim Willams,you name them,different names come and go,but one common ,undeniable demoniator is,they all say we are Friends at Munster ,we play for each other.
Yet such a family unity,tolerance,and inclusivness within the Group from Management to the players,at training they push the limits of everyone ,and after any woeful Munster performance,in there world renowned Truth and Honesty sessions,they dont hold any barrels back,and if anyone is not doing what is expected,they are told so,in no uncertain terms and with words you probably would not find in a dictionary.
No one Munster player,takes it as an insult or you are a Dictator ,in fact it is taken an insult ,if you are not honest ,as to be a Munster player ,you Must be honest to yourself ,and then to the group.At training they go so hard,scraps have taken place,yet soon as training is over,its friends again,in truth they were never enemies,all they are is ruthless to push every button within to be a success.Training is not fun ,any time I watched them at Ul.
I know Allen means well,when he said he found it hard to drop a player etc.But at the end of the day,you know that is part and parcel of a job when you take it.The one basic common concept that has not changed over time ,is you can only pick 15 to start.This nothing new to the game.The length of the game ,the rules changed,but for practially all it's life span,it has been 15 players,so it is Enevitable players ,are dissapointed if they don't play.When a player is not dissapointed for not playing ,it is a bad sign.I cant understand why managers complain they have to drop players.They know this is inevitable from day one.If they have such a problem,don't go in to management.
Munster dropped Paul O Connell,Mr Munster Ruby,to Munster,what Christy Ring is to Hurling,what Shefflin is to Kilkenny ,yet it was done purely with emotion taken out of the equation,as Munster to evolve ,and to have a new leader,gave it to Peter O'Mahony ,as Munster keep getting year on year out of there group,and beating the odds,as they evolve ,for the greater good of the team.It is no coincendce he got two crucial tries ,at vital times the last two weekends ,when leadership was needed from a captain.He has and continued to grow.That happened only cause Munster were Ruthless to allow him that opportunity.Did that mean there was no tolerance goodnesswithin ,?,no I doubt it,to hear Paul o Connell interviewed afterwards ,these values were still present and very much so within Munster Rubgy .
O'Connell had a reputation,in Munster second to none,up there with the best,yet , he's captaincy was taken away.That may seem harsh but it is not that bad,when it is for the good of the team,and the end justifes the means.
I will say fair play to Allen for saying he is not ruthless to go back in to intercounty management.I do respect the honesty.
Allen is a gent, a lovely man ,a love for the game and as nice as you could get ,and one of Lifes Good Ones, but I always said he wasnt tactially that good and compared to others,was not ruthless,and always more of a facillator .He is ideal to be part of something but as a Leader ,he lacks that edge .At the end of the day the manager picks the team.
You must have that edge to push players out of comfort zones.Mickey Harte is a gentleman,sees only good in life,and the poor man has had he's fair share of tragedys,yet on the field of play he is ruthless as a manager.Sean Boylan was a ruthless manager,but a man full of tolerance,incluisveness.
Davy is a ferioucous competitor and gives tough love ,but at the same time when he had to he brought the team in to he's home after the Cork game in June ,and gave them what they needed.Did they give him a box of choclates or a thank you card.No but when he asked for a hundred and ten per cent at training,they gave davy that and much more at training and in games.The biggest gratiude of all.There is a goodness in Davy deep down, and a loyalty to people behind the persona he sets.He just has goals,and he will be ruthless to achieve them.I dont see a problem with a win all mentality.You don't ask at the top level,you must demand and expect high standards.When Conlon was injured in june in the cork game,he went to hospital to him.He was the one that said independent doctors should ,make the call on concussion,not team doctors,as it takes away the emotion in the decision.In rubgy,there is quite a lot of professional managers not or dont want to address concussion.See ,davys win all mentailty never crosses the bounds of player safety .Davys bond with hes team is inhibited by tolerance,goodness,and is not dictaorship ,like Codys in kilkenny.
He is a win all cost purely in the team and game itself,but he knows the boundary too.On the field and in training,he gets every last inch out of he's team,and thats what you want.
What did not suprise me last week is Clares organisition at every drill in training,and it was varied ,and it kept a freshness mentally and physically with them.
A range of ball work,speed,resistance,tackling,you name it,it was done.Davy is the coil,in which that team revolves around,but crucially he steps back,and allows O'Connor and Kinnerk ,Mulqueen do their roles,never intefers,but ready to step in for hes role.Wonderful organisiton in management ,as no waiting after a drill,and what next,they all know what to do,when to do it,and there is a speed and cohesion to what they do,many intercounty teams at various levels train at a snails pace when you compare it to kilkenny and Clare.Cork last year training was I am glad to say up to standard ,senior hurling wise.
He doesnt micro manage he's set up,as he trusts and knows there up to the mark.He wouldnt have them invlolved otherwise.Davy is not the Dictator he is made out to be ,he knows when and where hes place is needed.He is the main man without a doubt,but he doesn't control or try to conrol he's coaches.He trusts them.Far from a dictator ,or is Jim Gavin .Gavin ,coming from the Air Corps,is bound to be strong,and is resoulte,and makes hard calls ,he is far from a Dictator though.
Anyone that thinks Clare will fade away,is in for a big shock,even if they do not win 2 in a row,there is another all ireland in them.Clare are a credit to watch ,and unlike other county teams in the past wont drink,or believe they are better than they are,wont do social media,and when they do talk to the media,they know the bounds not to cross,and i'm sure they will be hand picked in who can do that.Certain players,play the media like a fiddle,others can get played by some.There is an attention to detail in the set up,hardly a Dictaorship .
You see soccer so called stars on twitter,unlikely you would see Clare ,or Munster on it.Phil Mickleson says Mcllroy has to stay away from social media to improve he's game.
He is right in what he said.
What a laugh,though ,Clare and kilkenny, were never on it in the first place ,Ameteaurs behaving like professionals,yet a professional behaving like an ameteaur.No distractions.
The lads on the team have to be better to hold a place,the subs better than the starting 15,and anyone wanting to make the panel equally as good,like kilkenny were and Dublin are sure to be at the football.That is always the case of any champion wanting to retain its crown.
Cork can't be as good as last year and expect to win,we wont even be competitve if we stay at that same level, and to win we must find another level ,and improve further,as kilkenny and Clare will improve,have no doubt.Kilkenny and Clare will be ruthless in that pursuit ,and that is a Great Quailty to behold,I believe.
Cork have no had no option but to clean out last year panel ,and to do that must be ruthless and a Win All Mentailty.We are playing catch up as it is,the first and foremost thing we must do is match there attuide for a start.The hurling panel,like the league fooball to be announced in a week ,will indicate how ruthless both management teams are ,in dropping certain players,and making the hard calls.Any manager shouldnt take it personally ,and most dont ,when they drop lads or dont pict them ,it is a fundamental part of management .Cuthbhert said he will be ruthless,next week will tell.He has failed once already in that when Jbm wanted the hurlers ,he was not ruthless like Jim Gavin to say no or make a choice.
Jbm ommission of two high profile players yesterday still young ,is good in that he is like Davy and Cody willing to make hard calls for the greater good of the team.It doesnt mean that being ruthless is a sign of Dictorship,or hes team doesnt hold ,tolerance etc, as anyone that knows the cork squad,knows that tolerance and inclusivity and spirit and a family spirit is within that squad and has been part of any team within JBM,yet Jbm is no dictator ,but he is Ruthless.And from what I saw ,last year ,Corks training is intense and far from fun,Paudie Sul said it was the toughest he ever done under Matthews.Thats good.There is a savage intensity but a great blend of hurling skills.Hurling can and should be fun and that freedom of spirit resembles our style of play.They hurl for the love of it.When there training though the intensity isnt fun.Id be very worried if it was.
People say at a glance Allen and JBM,are simlar in nature,they are both mild mannered,timid,soft spoken and intelligent.That is true,but the huge difference with JBM,he is ruthless when he needs to be.
And above any myth that is portyrayed,you must be ruthless in intercounty management for constant success.0 -
Advertisement
-
There is no right or wrong approach IMO. Only what works for the group of players currently at your disposal.
Clare are a young team and can train with that intensity for a period of time. But in a couple of years time they will need to vary their approach. Cody has done that with Kilkenny and reaped the benefits.
IMO I think Allen's approach, where the players enjoyed training is one that can work at a certain point in time as it improves the positivity in the camp and brings a renewed mental focus and approach.
The game is 95% mental in how you approach, prepare and play the game. This can be achieved in a number of ways and needs to be tailored to the group that you are dealing with.0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »I saw Clare train last Tuesday week night the Hurlers ,in Limerick,for two solid hours from .A panel of around 35 that night,all the big names,Kelly,Donnellan ,Ryan ,with a lot of young potential stars like Flanagan,Duggan etc.
I have watched many teams train,and some at intercounty,are just piss balling about in terms of what they think is "Intensity".I have seen college teams train harder.
They fool no one but themselves.
Clare don't mess about.It is right from the start to the last.Even there warm up is intense .
People have this myth that any team can win an allreland by just getting lucky in the year.When you watch Clare train,or kilkenny in the past and the intensity they do it,it is far from a fluke.They may have lost a battle along the way,but they won the War.
John Allen said in last Tuesdays paper in an interview he lacked the ruthleness that some managers have ,and Limerick players emailed him thanks for "training was "fun ,begs belief.If I was any County Board,looking for a manager,that interview,would not inspire me to hire him.I made a point of going to watch Clare train,just to see there intensity.He claims he's records justify he's means.
A devalued Munster title in that two home games,beat a 14 man cork ,blown out the gate by Clare,lost a league final, they should have won.
He did win All ireland with Cork,we were expected to win but ,Cork remained static and never evolved in time and like Counihan lacked the ruthless streak to bring us to the next level in he's last years.Counihan was ruthless at the start and immense credit due for that ,he had no emotion with any of the players.Crucially,when he won the all ireland ,that changed though.
Watch Davy fitz and Jim Gavin this year.It is clean slate,reputations won't carry anyone .Like Cody,your are only as good as your last game.
Gavin laid it on the table ,play hurling your choice.I won't tell you or dicate what you choose ,thats up to you.But you ain't doing both.He had to do that for the greater good of he's team .
It is likely not one Clare lad thought training that night was fun and neither did Tony Kelly hardly thought running at 5.30 am last christmas was fun on he's own in Cratloe Woods, ,but walking of ,when the ,you can clear as day see their is an appreciation and a self containment,a feeling of goodness they know ,that at end of that session, they are much better prepared than they were at start ,and that makes them do it again and again,as the end justifys the means.After intense training of any kind you always feel you are stronger than anything else anyone else throws at you,you could conquer the world.
Getting an email thanking him for training was "fun,"sweet lord.I don't know which is worse,Allen for thinking it as a kind of "Accolade or notable achievement,or the limerick lads for doing it in the first place.
Training is not meant to be fun.Did they win the All ireland?No ,they never contary to the belief they were realistic contenders ,they never were never even close to it last year.
I know it sounds grand and courteous,but my view is it is a soft mentatilty.At the end of the day,they did not win an all ireland.Would Roy Keane thank a manager for training was fun or ,espiceally if they won a secondary competition,and as much as I love it,lets be honest a provincial title like a Munster one,is secondary to an All Ireland.An all Ireland is the Holy Grail.This is not kids level,it is Senior Intercounty,you must be ruthless in all honesty.
I'd sure Davy does not want emails or Cody ,he hardly prints them of ,and frames them,he looks at 26 celtic crosses getting handed out at a function for all ireland winners in december ,and like cody that is the thanks that means so much to him.
You can be ruthless and create a, one of us mentatily ,between manager and a group and everyone is together,and still be ruthless ,contary to Allens view,as the benefit of the team always comes first.
Davys attuitde is clare are a big family ,and everyone is together.Yes a player makes a mistake,no matter who he is,he gets told so in no uncertain terms ,and will get ten press up etc , and Davy he will do anything for he's panel,but at the same time ,like cody ,he is ruthless,in training and picking a team,and unlike allen who lets emotion get in the way,Davy has two emotions passion a fear not to give a 100 per cent.In the Clare training,he demands every last inch and gets that.
People have this myth that your dinosaur,or a Dictator, if your ruthless ,or a bad person.Not at all.This lark about having tolerance and goodness is important more so than winning ,i find it strange, and do not find a conflict interest in both together ,in that I do belief they can go hand in hand,and you must be ruthless to be constantly succesful.Allen said you need a "certain madness to be an intercounty manager".I don't see being ruthless as a madness,I see it as an unquinchable hunger and Desire and Raw Passion to be a winner and do what ever is needed within the rules to achieve that.That is something to admire ,not resent in a manager.
Surely a unity,and togetherness like Clare,the All blacks,Munster ,have tolerance,incluivsness and goodness within,yet make no mistake about it,are ruthless in the pursit of there ultimate aim.I don't that is wrong,in the win all mentality.As proved against Ireland,with the last play of the game,they want to win every game .
Now there is a line,taking enhancing performing drugs in sport like Lance Armstrong,is an example where ,tolerance,incluisveness,and goodess are values not present,and go out the window in hes win all menatity to achieve the goal.He crossed the line .And that I am totally opposed to,and always will be.That is a different kettle of fish.
Fr Bertie Troy,and Canon Michael O' Brien were two great Iconic managers,and ruthless when they need to be,but also were extremely good tolerant,men and very holy men,and brought tolerance and goodness to Cork teams but combined it with a ruthless,bloody minded streak to win.Fr.Troy ,was a gentleman,ask anyone with links to St.Colmans or Newtownshandrum or North Cork ,and had as much a deep love of people as he had for hurling,yet he was ruthless in the pursuit of glory.
When Cork won the two in a row,Troy realised one flaw,as great as Wexford were,Kilkenny would test Cork in a different way to win 3 in a row,such Troy was ruthless to change dramatically the way the 1978 team trained ,in that ,to beat kilkenny you had to keep the play,moving keep it at pace.It was not a case of don't change what is not broken,more change this or it will be broken.He had the foresight to realise this ,but the ruthless streak to dramatically change a winning team ,for the better of the team.
Cork under Allen ,unlike with Troy,did not evolve in there bid for 3 in a row,against Kilkenny,and suffered as a result,as that day we were far too predictable.Allen was not ruthless to change things,or drop Captain Pat Mulchay ,and worse still lef him get roasted by Aidan Fogary, who got 1-3,before the superb,Wayne Sherlock was used.
Sentiment and emotion ,and not ruthless to drop the captain who had struggled all year ,for a sub,who would have walked on any intercounty team in the country.
JBM, modelled Corks play in 99 on troys philopohsy to beat Kilkenny ,and even when you look at last year in thurles,JBM had Troys philosphy to beat kilkenny ,very much evident,the ball was played a pace,every time,the sliothar was kept moving,as Cork played fast ,open,direct hurling.The ball was never static,in one place,in that you see the "Sliothar Here and There "but seek it Everywhere".It never remained in the one place for very long,once Cork had possesion, in the blink of an eye ,and like the speed of a bullet it was gone.Kilkenny couldnt beat Cork because they never got enough ball.Simple really,but there was a ruthless streak to implement that game plan,away from the tried and trusted and to move outside the safety of the comfort zone,don't change whats not broken.
Cody on the field is different ,than he is off it.He is a winner.Monday he ,said was all about attuide.Every single game has a meaning and purpose with Cody,in that he has such expectations of each player every day,he always take something from it.
Players that excelled in there huge win,he will say ,I expect that ,in these games,any lad that didnt do it yesterday is on hes radar,and thats if they are lucky,they may not even get a luxury of another chance.
Clare on sunday , there young lads made a statement ,they want to be on the team,and they had a huge intensity,so much Tj Ryan was complaining about the tackling of Clare.Davy was bang on the money,welcome to the big time.People think davy is making noise again hes not.He is talking straight.Tj wanted ,respect for the team,you earn respect.I'm suprised O grady allowed TJ,says those things,thats a huge worry for limerick,TJ very much the one in control of the team,if that happens and O Grady in the backseat.
TJ Ryan 1st game ,and he makes headlines for the wrong reasons.Man up ,in fairness.That what Limerick have to face ,in most games.AS cork did ,and Harnedy showed if the ref doesnt protect you you protect yourself,and you actually earn the respect of the opponent ,rather than cry wolf after.
Cork and clare were tough,and the replay wasnt cynical,and both teams gave as good as they got.I was a huge fan of Tj Ryan as a player,but he was hardly an angel himself now ,and played well on the edge,and protected himself ,he should tell hes lads who are well able to take care of themselves to do the same.
But anyone want to see what down to earth,salt of the earth,geuine man he Cody is,watch hes interview with Gay Byrne,"the Meaning OF Life" a must see for anyone, and he holds the same values in life and is a good ,good man,and knows right from wrong,but on the field,doesnt hold back,or is not afraid to drop guys ,as he wants to win.
JBM is a gentleman,but as proven with Cusack,Coleman,Gardiner and many more through hes tereune even in 1997,etc for a gentleman and such a charismistic man ,he is ruthless.
The Legendary Micko Dwyer is a lovely man with the same values Allen and rightfully so holds,but he was ruthless,watch him on the side line during many a game.
Interestingly,and every year Munster Rubgy,quailfy for the knockouts,there be it ,with O'Gara,Mick Galwaey,Jim Willams,you name them,different names come and go,but one common ,undeniable demoniator is,they all say we are Friends at Munster ,we play for each other.
Yet such a family unity,tolerance,and inclusivness within the Group from Management to the players,at training they push the limits of everyone ,and after any woeful Munster performance,in there world renowned Truth and Honesty sessions,they dont hold any barrels back,and if anyone is not doing what is expected,they are told so,in no uncertain terms and with words you probably would not find in a dictionary.
No one Munster player,takes it as an insult or you are a Dictator ,in fact it is taken an insult ,if you are not honest ,as to be a Munster player ,you Must be honest to yourself ,and then to the group.At training they go so hard,scraps have taken place,yet soon as training is over,its friends again,in truth they were never enemies,all they are is ruthless to push every button within to be a success.Training is not fun ,any time I watched them at Ul.
I know Allen means well,when he said he found it hard to drop a player etc.But at the end of the day,you know that is part and parcel of a job when you take it.The one basic common concept that has not changed over time ,is you can only pick 15 to start.This nothing new to the game.The length of the game ,the rules changed,but for practially all it's life span,it has been 15 players,so it is Enevitable players ,are dissapointed if they don't play.When a player is not dissapointed for not playing ,it is a bad sign.I cant understand why managers complain they have to drop players.They know this is inevitable from day one.If they have such a problem,don't go in to management.
Munster dropped Paul O Connell,Mr Munster Ruby,to Munster,what Christy Ring is to Hurling,what Shefflin is to Kilkenny ,yet it was done purely with emotion taken out of the equation,as Munster to evolve ,and to have a new leader,gave it to Peter O'Mahony ,as Munster keep getting year on year out of there group,and beating the odds,as they evolve ,for the greater good of the team.It is no coincendce he got two crucial tries ,at vital times the last two weekends ,when leadership was needed from a captain.He has and continued to grow.That happened only cause Munster were Ruthless to allow him that opportunity.Did that mean there was no tolerance goodnesswithin ,?,no I doubt it,to hear Paul o Connell interviewed afterwards ,these values were still present and very much so within Munster Rubgy .
O'Connell had a reputation,in Munster second to none,up there with the best,yet , he's captaincy was taken away.That may seem harsh but it is not that bad,when it is for the good of the team,and the end justifes the means.
I will say fair play to Allen for saying he is not ruthless to go back in to intercounty management.I do respect the honesty.
Allen is a gent, a lovely man ,a love for the game and as nice as you could get ,and one of Lifes Good Ones, but I always said he wasnt tactially that good and compared to others,was not ruthless,and always more of a facillator .He is ideal to be part of something but as a Leader ,he lacks that edge .At the end of the day the manager picks the team.
You must have that edge to push players out of comfort zones.Mickey Harte is a gentleman,sees only good in life,and the poor man has had he's fair share of tragedys,yet on the field of play he is ruthless as a manager.Sean Boylan was a ruthless manager,but a man full of tolerance,incluisveness.
Davy is a ferioucous competitor and gives tough love ,but at the same time when he had to he brought the team in to he's home after the Cork game in June ,and gave them what they needed.Did they give him a box of choclates or a thank you card.No but when he asked for a hundred and ten per cent at training,they gave davy that and much more at training and in games.The biggest gratiude of all.There is a goodness in Davy deep down, and a loyalty to people behind the persona he sets.He just has goals,and he will be ruthless to achieve them.I dont see a problem with a win all mentality.You don't ask at the top level,you must demand and expect high standards.When Conlon was injured in june in the cork game,he went to hospital to him.He was the one that said independent doctors should ,make the call on concussion,not team doctors,as it takes away the emotion in the decision.In rubgy,there is quite a lot of professional managers not or dont want to address concussion.See ,davys win all mentailty never crosses the bounds of player safety .Davys bond with hes team is inhibited by tolerance,goodness,and is not dictaorship ,like Codys in kilkenny.
He is a win all cost purely in the team and game itself,but he knows the boundary too.On the field and in training,he gets every last inch out of he's team,and thats what you want.
What did not suprise me last week is Clares organisition at every drill in training,and it was varied ,and it kept a freshness mentally and physically with them.
A range of ball work,speed,resistance,tackling,you name it,it was done.Davy is the coil,in which that team revolves around,but crucially he steps back,and allows O'Connor and Kinnerk ,Mulqueen do their roles,never intefers,but ready to step in for hes role.Wonderful organisiton in management ,as no waiting after a drill,and what next,they all know what to do,when to do it,and there is a speed and cohesion to what they do,many intercounty teams at various levels train at a snails pace when you compare it to kilkenny and Clare.Cork last year training was I am glad to say up to standard ,senior hurling wise.
He doesnt micro manage he's set up,as he trusts and knows there up to the mark.He wouldnt have them invlolved otherwise.Davy is not the Dictator he is made out to be ,he knows when and where hes place is needed.He is the main man without a doubt,but he doesn't control or try to conrol he's coaches.He trusts them.Far from a dictator ,or is Jim Gavin .Gavin ,coming from the Air Corps,is bound to be strong,and is resoulte,and makes hard calls ,he is far from a Dictator though.
Anyone that thinks Clare will fade away,is in for a big shock,even if they do not win 2 in a row,there is another all ireland in them.Clare are a credit to watch ,and unlike other county teams in the past wont drink,or believe they are better than they are,wont do social media,and when they do talk to the media,they know the bounds not to cross,and i'm sure they will be hand picked in who can do that.Certain players,play the media like a fiddle,others can get played by some.There is an attention to detail in the set up,hardly a Dictaorship .
You see soccer so called stars on twitter,unlikely you would see Clare ,or Munster on it.Phil Mickleson says Mcllroy has to stay away from social media to improve he's game.
He is right in what he said.
What a laugh,though ,Clare and kilkenny, were never on it in the first place ,Ameteaurs behaving like professionals,yet a professional behaving like an ameteaur.No distractions.
The lads on the team have to be better to hold a place,the subs better than the starting 15,and anyone wanting to make the panel equally as good,like kilkenny were and Dublin are sure to be at the football.That is always the case of any champion wanting to retain its crown.
Cork can't be as good as last year and expect to win,we wont even be competitve if we stay at that same level, and to win we must find another level ,and improve further,as kilkenny and Clare will improve,have no doubt.Kilkenny and Clare will be ruthless in that pursuit ,and that is a Great Quailty to behold,I believe.
Cork have no had no option but to clean out last year panel ,and to do that must be ruthless and a Win All Mentailty.We are playing catch up as it is,the first and foremost thing we must do is match there attuide for a start.The hurling panel,like the league fooball to be announced in a week ,will indicate how ruthless both management teams are ,in dropping certain players,and making the hard calls.Any manager shouldnt take it personally ,and most dont ,when they drop lads or dont pict them ,it is a fundamental part of management .Cuthbhert said he will be ruthless,next week will tell.He has failed once already in that when Jbm wanted the hurlers ,he was not ruthless like Jim Gavin to say no or make a choice.
Jbm ommission of two high profile players yesterday still young ,is good in that he is like Davy and Cody willing to make hard calls for the greater good of the team.It doesnt mean that being ruthless is a sign of Dictorship,or hes team doesnt hold ,tolerance etc, as anyone that knows the cork squad,knows that tolerance and inclusivity and spirit and a family spirit is within that squad and has been part of any team within JBM,yet Jbm is no dictator ,but he is Ruthless.And from what I saw ,last year ,Corks training is intense and far from fun,Paudie Sul said it was the toughest he ever done under Matthews.Thats good.There is a savage intensity but a great blend of hurling skills.Hurling can and should be fun and that freedom of spirit resembles our style of play.They hurl for the love of it.When there training though the intensity isnt fun.Id be very worried if it was.
People say at a glance Allen and JBM,are simlar in nature,they are both mild mannered,timid,soft spoken and intelligent.That is true,but the huge difference with JBM,he is ruthless when he needs to be.
And above any myth that is portyrayed,you must be ruthless in intercounty management for constant success.
Best to ease up on the John Allen bashing there seriously.0 -
CORK HURLING PANEL TO PLAY UCC ON SATURDAY 23/01/2014
The Cork panel to play UCC in the Canon O'Brien Cup challenge game on Saturday at 12 noon at the Mardyke is as follows:
1. Anthony Nash (Kanturk)
2. Shane O'Neill (Bishopstown)
3. Stephen McDonnell (Glen Rovers)
4. Kilian Murphy (Erin's Own)
5. Eoin Keane (St. Finbarr's)
6. Mark Ellis (Millstreet)
7. William Egan (Kilbrin)
8. Paul Haughney (Midleton)
9. Lorcán McLoughlin (Kanturk)
10. Brian Lawton (Castlemartyr)
11. Cian McCarthy (Sarsfields)
12. Michael O'Sullivan (Tracton)
13. Stephen Moylan (Douglas)
14. Patrick Horgan (Glen Rovers)
15. Jamie Coughlan (Newtownshandrum)
16. Stephen Nyhan (Courcey Rovers)
17. Stephen White (Ballygarvan)
18. Christopher Joyce (Na Piarsaigh)
19. Daniel Kearney (Sarsfields)
20. Michael Cahalane (Bandon)
21. Luke O'Farrell (Midleton)0 -
shockframe wrote: »Best to ease up on the John Allen bashing there seriously.
Ah stop the lights.It is not a bashing.Many people give views on any thread,my view is purely as a hurling manager.Nothing personal here I said.He said he wasnt ruthless ,and I made a point ,you can be ruthless and holds all the values he mentioned and other managers are ruthless and can hold the values he mentioned.Just giving another side of the argument.
Fans like a poster said on the waterford thread are entitled to give views ,once it is on hurling ,on players and managers in the game.
Seriously,part and parcel of the game.0 -
I did find that John Allen piece very strange. Not what you expect from an inter county manager and certainly a factor in Limerick flopping in the semi final.0
-
Cork minors hurlers had a good challenge game against ardscoil harty cup team tonight ,won around 3-14 to 13 points.0
-
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Sorry ,for late reply,just saw that now.
Yeah it was the main ptich .They had mcgrath cup sunday,cork minor hurlers v rochestown monday night,hamilton and dungarvan that day in harty cup,that night cork u21 v tralee,i believe there was too munster b and c games there today,cork minors play ard scoil tommorw in hurling(not sure but I doubt ard scoil will play on the other ptich as they have I believe a few injuries ,and dont want more with a huge harty cup semifinal in mallow on the 1st.,so they want the main one I would think.
That is a lot of games on the main ptich.It held up well though.The ground staff do an amazing job there.
That is grand to say. It will be fine now with ok weather. However, this will tell as time goes on. Doesn't matter what ground staff you have or weather it wont last. I think it might have been last summer where the pitch was in an awful state. Only a matter of time for that to happen again.0 -
That is grand to say. It will be fine now with ok weather. However, this will tell as time goes on. Doesn't matter what ground staff you have or weather it wont last. I think it might have been last summer where the pitch was in an awful state. Only a matter of time for that to happen again.
Its a fair point ,and its gets so many games its bound to tell .0 -
Article here suggesting underage hurling structures in the county are slowly improving
http://punditarena.com/2014/01/23/cork-hurling-underage-structures-improving/0 -
Advertisement
-
Article here suggesting underage hurling structures in the county are slowly improving
http://punditarena.com/2014/01/23/cork-hurling-underage-structures-improving/
A good read but I don't think it tells us anything that donal o grady didnt say in hes good articles last year on schools problems.
Im always amazed when people try to complicate a problem that doesnt exist.Winning at minor and u21 isnt straighforward.
I dont buy that,its not very straightforward. to win at minor.Again like every article I have read mentions,urban population,talent,money ,but no one has yet mentioned coaching how young coaches must be developed,and how as times proved,coaches with good records are being overlooked for lads with no records.
Nothing changed in the blink of an eye with cork u21 football from 2003 to 2004 when we became a huge force at u21.That team had even lost some of the minor all ireland winning team,yet we had tony leahy and cleary,and it made a huge impact.
I saw the cork minors last night play a full strength harty cup ard scoil and win 3-14 to 0-13,our
r second string side,as a lot were rested,or injured,or harty cup,yet the talent was superb.
From going to a lot of games,there is no huge difference in talent to last and this year,bar michael cahalane and horgan made us stronger talent wise,but this team has a serious chance as they are the best prepared set up I saw in years.
Honestly,from warm up,to warm down,to style of play ,they are four months in ,but have a lot of great work done.
Landers and ring and o dywer etc are doing a super job.If its not this year ,i do believe this set up before the 2 year is up,will win an all ireland.
A lot of last nights team are eligble next year once they dont reduce the age limit to below 17 at minor.0
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement