RTE Two HD on Sky [Merged]

CBLFC96

Karsini wrote: »

keith_d99 wrote: »

So is it available to non-hd pack subscribers?

No, not getting it here.

Me Neither, Have a HD box but I'm being told to upgrade my Subscription.

Keithl2156

Allot of content has no info still and where it says hd in the info box has no hd for hd programmes

twinklerunner

Dinarius wrote: »

Well, if it's as iffy as I saw last Sunday, there isn't much to anitcipate.

D,

Give RTÉ a chance. Match Of The Day on BBC only went HD this season

Sideshow Mark

I thought that sky insisted on a percentage of programs in HD before allowing a hd channel to launch. There's no way that rte two could be close to that figure.

MarkK

Sideshow Mark wrote: »

I thought that sky insisted on a percentage of programs in HD before allowing a hd channel to launch. There's no way that rte two could be close to that figure.

One of the Sky requirements is "the channel may include no less than 640 hours of non-repeating native HD programmes in its first 12 months broadcasting in HD,"

With the Olympics, European Championships etc. they will easily have that much in a year.

Patty O Furniture

Yeah, i got a shock when i went to the epg about 9, only to see RTE TWO HD how long has this been waiting to come on,

It certainly seemed HD, when i saw Only Fools & Horses in HD compared to CH 294 in SD as you could hear it crisply in HD as well as the creases in Del's trousers.

Will the GAA games be in HD, Champions lge final, do they have a list of programs on what to expect.

Thanks.

copacetic

Champs league final, yes, 13 major GAA games (basically later stages), all the European Championships and all the Olympics.

byte

John896 wrote: »

Channel 294 on the ni epg.

Channel 162 for me, with 294 being the SD version - yes, I have HD sub.

warlikedave

byte wrote: »

Channel 162 for me, with 294 being the SD version - yes, I have HD sub.

Its on 102 for me :P

galtee boy

Why is there a standard def version on 294 for HD pack subscribers and an encrypted HD version on 294 for non HD pack subscribers ? Does it mean that at some future stage, Sky will relent and non HD pack subscribers will get Rte2 HD on 294, similar to BBC1 HD on 141 for HD pack subscribers and BBC1 HD being on 234 for non HD pack subscribers ?

galtee boy

galtee boy wrote: »

Why is there a standard def version on 294 for HD pack subscribers and an encrypted HD version on 294 for non HD pack subscribers ? Does it mean that at some future stage, Sky will relent and non HD pack subscribers will get Rte2 HD on 294, similar to BBC1 HD on 141 for HD pack subscribers and BBC1 HD being on 234 for non HD pack subscribers ?

It's because of the way the HD EPG works. For some channels the SD and HD channels swap places if you have the HD sub. In the case of BBC 1 HD, it swaps with BBC 1 NI.

DigiDec

Also all BBC channels are free to air on satellite, RTE os not, you need a sub to view.

PogMoThoin

Patty O Furniture wrote: »

It certainly seemed HD, when i saw Only Fools & Horses in HD compared to CH 294 in SD as you could hear it crisply in HD as well as the creases in Del's trousers.

Will the GAA games be in HD, Champions lge final, do they have a list of programs on what to expect.

Thanks.

It's upscaled SD, Only Fools was never filmed in HD.

The Champions League final will be in HD as will some of the GAA (the GAA moves to RTE1 over summer with Euro 2012 and Olympics on), this thread lists the games

andrewdeerpark

Just stumbled on this thread.

And all I can say about the Murdock SKY corporation: they are some shower of dirty thieving bastards! I just have basic sky on a HD box costing 23euro a month, I like the sky plus that's it.


Here they get the "free" RTE2 HD channel then encrypt it unless you have the HD pack even though other free HD channels such as BBC HD are free without the robbing thieving up selling HD addon pack.

That's it I'm off to saorview and freesat. Plus I am complaining to RTE about this Sky action.

No way should they insist on the HD pack to get Free RTE2 HD?

warlikedave

PogMoThoin wrote: »

It's upscaled SD, Only Fools was never filmed in HD.

The Champions League final will be in HD as will some of the GAA (the GAA moves to RTE1 over summer with Euro 2012 and Olympics on), this thread lists the games

Indeed - the studio analysis for sports events you will notice will not be HD - there is a split second switch from HD to SD - ye will notice that (and ive noticed that on saorview rte2 hd)

zg3409

zerks wrote: »

There was a post somewhere about this,the poster tested the bitrate & the one on Sky was way above Saorview's.

Karsini wrote: »

The highest bit rate on Saorview would in theory be 24 megabits as that is the capacity of the multiplex.

copacetic wrote: »

The Sky services have their own encoders, UPC services have their own encoders and RTE NL services have their own encoders. As posted above the bit rate on sky appears to be 12MB, much more than on Saorview.

Machinehead wrote: »

This is a sample for RTÉ Two SD on Sky.
(Notice average bit rate of 3.8mbs & max of 8.3mbs)

http://www.digitalbitrate.com/dbr.php?link=0&mux=10744&pid=9602&live=69&mode=2&note=0&lang=en

Now that site is showing 12Mb/s for RTE2 HD via Sky

As already said the current Saorview mux can carry 24Mb/s.

However this has to share all the channels over the Mux.
TV Channels: RTÉ One, RTÉ Two HD, TV3, TG4, RTÉ News Now, 3e, (RTÉjr or RTÉ One+1) are the main bandwith carried.

RTENL say the mux is full and any new channels will require the 2nd mux to be launched. I have seen a pie chart of the amount of bandwidth being taken by each channel. However this varied from second to second based on the amount of movement on each of the above channels. However as RTE2 is in HD it automatically gets more than any of the other channels.

If they are showing a program that is not in HD then it's bit rate may reduce. They can tweak the settings any time and it may get more on average once a 2nd mux is launched.

I would doubt anyone could tell the diifference in a blind test between the two. If shown 50 screens could you pick out which one was via Sky every time? The main difference would be 40 euros a month

Edit:
Found more info here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69313598&postcount=1

watty wrote: »

It's not as bad as you think

However... if we have Variable Bit rate and Statistical Multiplex, then 6Mbps AVERAGE could have up to 14Mbps or more peak. Maybe even 16 Mbps for very short periods.

If it's VBR 6Mbps 1440 x1080i is AVERAGE bit rate on stat mux and all "state of the art" encoders then it exceeds DSL with single channel CBR 12Mbps MPEG4 for quality by quite a bit.

So 6Mbps Average HD with higher peak VBR stat mux is reasonable HD with current MPEG4 encoders. (DIVx /xVid MPEg4 is nothing like as compressed for same quality, this is why much more CPU needed to decode Irish DTT, esp HD).

With two multiplexes you want to put mix of HD, SD and radio on both to help the Statistical Multiplex.

I think PSB needs 3 x Mux if RTE1, RTE2, TV3, TG4 and Film Channel are all in HD. Which they should be within a few years.

Widescreen is STUPID in SD. SD should only EVER have been 4x3. The broadcasters and TV makers should have waited for HD to introduce WS. Also it should have been 1.85:1 and not 1.78:1 IDIOTS.

So if SD DVD looks good on a 32" TV, then 1.9x should be OK on HD = 60"

So Irish DTT HD should look better than SD DVD on up to 48" TV and acceptable on up to a 60" set.

BluRay of best quality, (50% are only DVD quality), should be OK up to 72"

http://www.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.php?mux=10744&pid=9608&live=69&lang=en

In summary it seems to be 6Mb/s vs 12Mb/s

donegal.

DigiDec wrote: »

Also all BBC channels are free to air on satellite, RTE os not, you need a sub to view.

All RTE channels are available free to all households in ireland - saorsat.

Sponge Bob

Broacasting at 12mbits on Astra, not particularly high.

http://www.linowsat.de/cgi-bin/onlinechart.cgi?0282-10744-H-2043+1+0+2+1fff,9601,9602,9603,9605,9608,+2012-05-16

Probably some averaging there but the transponder is tightly packed and the others are averaging at 2.5mbits which is rather treacley.

peking97

Hardly *Free* when a licence costs €160!

zg3409

I see that the transponder is QPSK (rather than 8PSK). Thus any non Sky HD box can receive all the data from the transponder.

The video is MPEG4. Can a non Sky HD box decode Mpeg4? (I don't think it can)

In theory could a non HD box display the channel (assuming Sky allowed it) and downscale it to SD?

This would then free up Sky from broadcasting the same station twice.

They would have the problem with the onscreen logo, but this could just be dropped and included in the relevant TV guide.

If a non HD box is only capable of MPEG2 then would it make any sense to broadcast in HD in MPEG2 format and drop the 2nd channel?

Kensington

zg3409 wrote: »

The video is MPEG4. Can a non Sky HD box decode Mpeg4? (I don't think it can)

No, MPEG-2 only.

zg3409 wrote: »

In theory could a non HD box display the channel (assuming Sky allowed it) and downscale it to SD?

No as it is in MPEG-4 format, non-HD boxes only have an MPEG-2 engine on board.

zg3409 wrote: »

If a non HD box is only capable of MPEG2 then would it make any sense to broadcast in HD in MPEG2 format and drop the 2nd channel?

No, firstly because the MPEG-2 profile required for HD wouldn't be supported by the SD boxes so the HD stream still would be of no use to SD boxes, second the MPEG-2 resolution wouldn't be supported either, third the bandwidth required for MPEG-2 HD at a reasonable quality is obscene.

zg3409

My letter has gone in. I would encourage others to write too, if not for yourself but the other Irish who will be hoodwinked into paying for a Hd service that should be free, under the law. Thanks to others for pointing this out.

---

Broadcasting Authority of Ireland,
2 - 5 Warrington Place,
Dublin 2

17th of May 2012

To whom it may concern,

Sky have just launched a high definition version of RTE2 (RTE2 HD) on their Satellite platform. As a Sky subscriber, they are looking for an addition 15 Euro per month on top of what I already pay, in order for me to receive this station. My television and Satellite box (a Sky HD box; with a basic non HD subscription) is capable of receiving the station.

It was my understanding that, under Section 77 of the broadcast act 2009 specifically sub sections 12 & 13 - key line being Subsection 13 ' shall not result in any additional charge on any subscriber to a satellite television service'.

(12) RTÉ, TG4 and the television service programme contractor shall ensure that their must-offer services are at all times offered for broadcast or re-transmission (subject to agreement as to fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory terms of use) by means of every satellite television service.

(13) Arrangements entered into under subsection (12) shall not result in an additional charge on any subscriber to a satellite television service by reason of the making available to that subscriber of any must-offer service by way of the satellite television service.


I understand that Saorview and Saorsat is carrying RTE2 HD available free to air, and UPC is providing RTE2HD for no addition cost(assuming your box is compatible).

However Sky seem to be making RTE2 HD a premium channel and expecting customers to pay an additional charge of 180 Euro per year on top of the normal Sky charges. Can this please be investigated? I think it is a clear breach of the act, and that the channel should be available to me, and many others like myself for no additional cost.

Yours Faithfully, ..... etc.

Hopefully the pen is mightier than the email. Please vent your anger towards those that can effect change.

watty

No sky box that isn't HD can even do SD MPEG4. The hardware isn't fast enough. Dedicated DSP only good enough for SD MPEG2. The "non HD" boxes can do 720 x 576 MPEG2 maximum.

Freeview, Freesat, Sky and UPC ALL have to duplicate any basic channels that launch an HD version for very many years to come.

About the only big advantage of Saorview being delayed for 10 years is that support for HD & MPEG4 (SD & HD) and no wasteful MPEG2 at all is standard from day 1.

watty

You forgot to mention that ONLY Sky & UPC subscribers without HD boxes will be getting RTE2 SD after 24th September as the Analogue ends and there is NO SD version on Saorview or Saorsat today.

Berty44

Seeing as I made the first post in this thread I might as well now make my last post in it. Virtually one year on from my initial question and finally last night RTE2 HD was on my EPG. Looking forward to watching both the Champions League final and the Magners League final in HD on our national boradcaster !

Sayonara.... arrivederci !

Jpmarn

galtee boy wrote: »

Why is there a standard def version on
294 for HD pack subscribers and an encrypted HD version on 294 for non HD pack subscribers ? Does it mean that at some future stage, Sky will relent and non HD pack subscribers will get Rte2 HD on 294, similar to BBC1 HD on 141 for HD pack subscribers and BBC1 HD being on 234 for non HD pack subscribers ?

It is useful for recording sd programmes as it will take up less disk space if you record from the hd version the channel

JDxtra

They need to leave the SD channel in place for HD-pack subscribers as they may have favourites or future recordings setup which would break if they removed it from the EPG.

Infoanon

JDxtra wrote: »

They need to leave the SD channel in place for HD-pack subscribers as they may have favourites or future recordings setup which would break if they removed it from the EPG.

I didn't think that was an issue on Sky ? (know its an issue on UPC)

Hotblack Desiato

I don't get what the complaints are about, at all. RTE provide an uncompressed feed to Sky, UPC and any other pay TV provider who wants it. It's entirely up to the pay-tv provider how they then encode it. You might as well write in and complain about the poor bitrate on SD UPC channels, it's the same argument. The obligation on the pay-tv provider is to supply the Irish channels in their basic package, not to provide them at any particular bitrate or resolution. If your provider chooses to charge for a 'HD pack' for 'HD channels' then that's tough. If it bothers you that much, everyone in Ireland can receive RTE2HD free to air with little or no effort.

zg3409

If they take a channel, which they have in this case, they need to provide it at no extra charge. I have a compatable box, a basic subscription, yet they are asking me to pay extra. It's in the broadcasting act, carry it and then you need to provide it at no extra charge.

We can start argueing that you can get another version of the channel, which is nearly the same, but that is a different feed and not what they are getting from RTE. I want to be able to receive the feed they have gotten for free from RTE. Under the act that should be possible.

It is possible for UPC customers. Even Setanta non customers can get a free Sky card to at least decode some of the programmes that are produced with the licence fee.

Yes it is possible for people to install a second system to receive Saorview, but it was Sky's choice to take the HD version and offer it. Thus they should provide it at no additional cost. I have voiced my opinion to the BAI. I assume they will consider it. The more complaints they get the more likely they are to consider it seriously. Others have been let away with breaking the rules (e.g. TV3 previously did not meet their coverage requirements).

Sky, in my opinion, and the opinion of some others on this thread should be providing the feed to me. Indeed for a time I could get the feed on my basic subscription card until they changed the feed.

I think Sky are trying to pull a fast one and they should be legally stopped. Charging people 180 euro every year to watch something they should legally be getting for free. It's their choice to carry the channel, but not to charge extra.