RTE Two HD on Sky [Merged]

MarkK

It is not clear under the act as it is not clear whether "RTE 2 SD" constitutes a separate 'service' to "RTE 2 HD"
If RTE 2 SD and RTE 2 HD are separate must carry channels, how come only one is on Saorview?

testicle

Anyone have no sound on the current program?

icdg

MarkK wrote: »

It is not clear under the act as it is not clear whether "RTE 2 SD" constitutes a separate 'service' to "RTE 2 HD"
If RTE 2 SD and RTE 2 HD are separate must carry channels, how come only one is on Saorview?

We had a big debate on this over on Cable/MMDS when it launched. My view is that RTÉ Two and RTÉ Two HD are the same service. Their programme schedules, advertisements, and continuity are identical in every respect. The only difference between them, content wise, is the DOG. Otherwise the picture quality is the only other difference.

Now why is only one on Saorview? Fairly simple answer to that. All Saorview STBs are MPEG4 HD capable. If one doesn't have a HD TV, you connect it to your normal TV via SCART, and you get an SD picture. So in such circumstances why would you provide both the HD and SD version? For SD customers, they'd be identical other than the DOG. For HD customers, why would you want the SD version too?

This situation BTW, is completely different to Sky and UPC. On Sky and UPC SD viewers cannot view HD channels. On UPC, HD channels don't even appear in the SD EPG. That's why on Sky and UPC, both SD and HD versions have to provided. If only the HD version was provided, SD viewers with non-HD STBs would NOT HAVE RTÉ TWO AT ALL

I've tried to impress that on those who claim there will be no RTÉ Two SD after DSO. Of course there will. The viewers will demand it. The politicians will demand it. Most importantly, the advertisers will demand it. If suddenly RTÉ Two was to be withdrawn from all SD viewers of Sky and UPC then its viewership would collapse by about 66% and advertisers would desert it in droves, leading to a substantial loss of revenue for RTÉ. That's the realpolitik of the situation. That's why RTÉ Two (SD) will continue to be available on UPC and Sky after DSO (indeed, RTÉ Two (analogue) will likely continue to be available on UPC), no matter what myths some posters here seem to be intent on pushing.

watty

RTE 2 on Analogue on UPC will be available as long as UPC analogue is available.

But ONLY Pay TV will have SD RTE2 after ASO on 24th October. Anyone getting Free To Air Terrestrial or Satellite RTE 2 will only get the HD format, as they do today on FTA Irish Digital.

So everything icdg says is correct. It is only applicable to Pay TV.

As icdg says there are not two separate RTE2 either. The SD version is just a low resolution copy of the HD with only the "DOG" differing.

Thus Sky should not charge a the HD premium for people that have Sky HD boxes and a Sky Sub to get the HD version, it's not a separate station. The "SD" version is the "degraded" version ONLY needed for older Pay TV boxes.

copacetic

testicle wrote: »

Anyone have no sound on the current program?

Fine here.

testicle

copacetic wrote: »

Fine here.

Feck, I've the same as someone posted before, no voice just background noises.

copacetic

testicle wrote: »

Feck, I've the same as someone posted before, no voice just background noises.

Have you a standard sky hd box? I had that the first couple of days of tests on true HD content, but then fixed and fine since. Someone with a non sky box could adjust audio settings to fix it during that time.

zg3409

icdg wrote: »

This situation BTW, is completely different to Sky and UPC. On Sky and UPC SD viewers cannot view HD channels. On UPC, HD channels don't even appear in the SD EPG. That's why on Sky and UPC, both SD and HD versions have to provided

Not exactly true in 100% of cases. SD customers with SD boxes need the SD signal. This is the same on Sky.

Similar to Sky some SD account holders happen to have HD boxes.
UPC Generally do not supply a HD box to non HD customers but they have in the past and probably will start doing so in the future.

Sky do provide a HD box as standard for all new customers, even if they do not go for the Hd pack. (They generally offer a "free period" of HD)

In normal circumstances people with SD boxes need an SD feed or they won't be able to watch a channel at all. I accept this is a hardware problem and it's impractical to expect UPC/Sky to upgrade every SD box for free.

However in the case of an SD customer owning a HD box, they they should be able to watch RTE2 HD, and they can on UPC, just not Sky.

Hotblack Desiato

zg3409 wrote: »

If they take a channel, which they have in this case, they need to provide it at no extra charge.

They are providing the channel, just not at the bitrate and resolution you'd like, but it could be worse, you could be a UPC customer.

I have a compatable box, a basic subscription, yet they are asking me to pay extra. It's in the broadcasting act, carry it and then you need to provide it at no extra charge.

They are providing RTE2 as part of their basic subscription, so meeting their requirements.

We can start argueing that you can get another version of the channel, which is nearly the same, but that is a different feed and not what they are getting from RTE.

No pay-TV provider puts out the the feed 'what they are getting from RTE' as they all compress it and/or reduce its resolution. RTE provide uncompressed feeds which cannot be relayed to the home in that form.

I want to be able to receive the feed they have gotten for free from RTE. Under the act that should be possible.

It is not technically possible.

It is possible for UPC customers.

Nope. Actually UPC SD customers should be the ones complaining about legovision but that's another story.

Even Setanta non customers can get a free Sky card to at least decode some of the programmes that are produced with the licence fee.

Programmes being the important word. You are receiving the programmes you are entitled to. If Sky chose to broadcast it in 30-line Baird format they'd still be broadcasting the same programme.

Yes it is possible for people to install a second system to receive Saorview, but it was Sky's choice to take the HD version and offer it.

Yes but they don't offer it for free. They offer no channels for free. What they charge for what channel is up to them provided they offer RTE on the basic sub, which they are doing. There is no argument here. I've no time for Sky but they're doing nothing more and nothing less than any commercial operator in their position is entitled to do.


If the BAI are getting complaints, it should be about a state-funded channel (Oireachtas TV) not available except on pay-TV.

icdg

zg3409 wrote: »

Similar to Sky some SD account holders happen to have HD boxes.
UPC Generally do not supply a HD box to non HD customers but they have in the past and probably will start doing so in the future.

Indeed - I have two of them myself (even though I'm an SD subscriber), though one's hooked up to a TV with no HDMI input making the fact that its a HD box pretty much redundant. This is only because I ordered two additional boxes quite recently. Most UPC subscribers don't have HD boxes. Many still have NTL and Chorus boxes. Some are still even analogue only.

Hotblack Desiato

icdg wrote: »

Some are still even analogue only.

Lots.
The vast majority of older people in Dublin would be on analogue cable. It's the simplest, no box, no input switching, one remote, one button press per channel, solution to get the basic Irish and UK channels, even though it means paying money for channels which are almost all FTA.

JustAddWater

Tonight the champions league is on ITV HD and that's where I'll watch it. If I had rte2 HD available I would watch it there instead

I'm sure that others will do the same. This is SKY's doing and rte will lose out here

Arciphel

The flipside - I am a Sky HD subscriber and thanks to Sky I can watch the final tonight on RTE and have HD picture and listen to "the boys" back in the studio as opposed to the English commentary team who will no doubt be going on endlessly about Lampard & Co. So thanks Sky!

mickdw

The HD quality on rte 2 saorview looks better to me compared to the HD rte via sky

crosstownk

Comparing Sky Sports to RTÉ 2 HD (Champions League Final) on my Sky HD box and surround sound system and the picture looks marginally better on Sky Sports and the sound on Sky Sports is far superior to RTÉ 2 HD. Still, I'm watching RTÉ because I prefer their commentary.

Stinicker

mickdw wrote: »

The HD quality on rte 2 saorview looks better to me compared to the HD rte via sky

I am finding the opposite myself.

galtee boy

mickdw wrote: »

The HD quality on rte 2 saorview looks better to me compared to the HD rte via sky

Must disagree also, I thought the Champions League Final last night looked much better on Rte2 HD via Sky, than via Saorview. I presume Sky have much more flexibility to pump up the bitrate than RTE do ?

Johnny Johnson

Is it not RTE that uplinks so wouldn't they control the bitrate

galtee boy

Johnny Johnson wrote: »

Is it not RTE that uplinks so wouldn't they control the bitrate

I have no idea ! Perhaps Watty or one of the other excellent "techies" on these boards might enlighten us ?

Stinicker

I don't know how to measure the bit rate on Saorview or Satellite either, but RTÉ2HD via Sky looked that little crisper last night especially when the camera panned on the stands and the crowd looked slightly less blurry. It could be down to the processing power of my TV with the encoding of Saorview compared to the stand-alone Sky box.

I am wondering has anyone done a bit-rate test on Saorsat to compare the bit rate of RTE2HD via Sky and compared to Saorsat which is supposed to have loads of capacity. Saorview by its nature and older technology DVB-T will always be restricted in their capacity until they fire up more muxes.

Mr. Rabbit

RTE Two HD is now available on Sky for NI viewers.

Apologies if this has been posted bedfore, but I've only noticed it today.

Hotblack Desiato

galtee boy wrote: »

Must disagree also, I thought the Champions League Final last night looked much better on Rte2 HD via Sky, than via Saorview. I presume Sky have much more flexibility to pump up the bitrate than RTE do ?

RTE2HD is 6Mbit on Saorview, on Sky it is likely to be a good bit higher than that.
RTE provide Sky, UPC, etc. with uncompressed feeds and it's up to the pay-tv providers to decide how to encode it for their customers.

BBC HD was originally 16Mbit on Freesat (and Sky), but was reduced to 9.7Mbit. That Wiki article says it's 17Mbit on Virgin cable, but only using MPEG-2 encoding, so the result is probably pretty similar to 9.7Mbit MPEG-4 on satellite.

zg3409

Stinicker wrote: »

I don't know how to measure the bit rate on Saorview or Satellite either,

This has already been discussed on this very thread. See here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=78723546

Saorsat is same rate as Saorview, probably a bit higher due to lack of TV3 and 3E.

Dinarius

Watching the Chelsea game on Saturday night on RTE2 HD on Sky.

The live match was in HD.

But, the studio panel and any highlights they showed while talking were not. Very weird!

D.

The Cush

Dinarius wrote: »

Watching the Chelsea game on Saturday night on RTE2 HD on Sky, the live match was in HD. But, the studio panel and any highlights they showed while talking were not. Very weird!

Only the live feed from the match venue is HD, the RTÉ studios haven't been upgraded for HD yet. The HD studio infrastructure upgrade is part of RTÉ's Project 2025.

The studio analysis from Croke Park and the Aviva stadium can be in HD when the games are in HD which is all done by an outside broadcast contractor at the venue and fed back to the RTÉ studio for transmission.

Johnny Johnson

Dinarius wrote: »

Watching the Chelsea game on Saturday night on RTE2 HD on Sky.

The live match was in HD.

But, the studio panel and any highlights they showed while talking were not. Very weird!

D.

If it was Sky Sports they would have shown the whole programme in SD. They don't like mixing SD and HD for some reason. I do not like that about Sky.

Dinarius

Johnny Johnson wrote: »

If it was Sky Sports they would have shown the whole programme in SD. They don't like mixing SD and HD for some reason. I do not like that about Sky.

Defintely as I described it. I switched from live RTE2 to live Sky Sports a few times just to be sure.

The Cush summarised it correctly, I think.

D.

Johnny Johnson

Dinarius wrote: »

Defintely as I described it. I switched from live RTE2 to live Sky Sports a few times just to be sure.

The Cush summarised it correctly, I think.

D.

I know it was as you described it. RTE have been doing that way on Saorview for a long time. I only meant that I preferred the RTE way compared to the Sky way.

marno21

RTE Two HD on Saorview is VBR between 2.0 and around 9.2Mbit and is statmuxed with the other channels. The last night it was running pretty much all the time during the match at 9.0Mbit, peaking at 9.2 and dropping during any still scenes.

RTE Two HD on Sky is CBR at 12.0Mbit, but remember there is more picture to encode on Sky (1920x1080, vs 1440x1080). Therefore the bits per pixel is around the same, Sky picture has 1/3 more bitrate and 1/3 more pixels to encode.

seanp_25

RTE TWO HD is included on the online Sky TV Guide now: http://tv.sky.com/tv-guide#/day/0

But it seems to flag everything as HD. Is it like this on Sky HD boxes too?