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Nibiru........True or False??!!

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    #62
    Talk E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭Talk E


    King Mob wrote: »
    No it doesn't.
    Not a single one of these rogue planets have been found near Earth,

    Yes it does.
    The fact that these rogue planets exist increases the chances that Nibiru exists. These are dark planets, hard to spot. It's only thought that they don't orbit a star, it's not certain. Scientists obviously know very little about them. You obviously know less.
    King Mob wrote: »
    and by definition they do not orbit a star like people think Nibiru does.
    "Think" being the operative word here.

    King Mob wrote: »
    Also, a comet is not the same as a Jupiter sized planet, so Elenin cannot be Nibiru.
    I didn't say it was.


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    #63
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Talk E wrote: »
    Yes it does.
    The fact that these rogue planets exist increases the chances that Nibiru exists. These are dark planets, hard to spot. It's only thought that they don't orbit a star, it's not certain. Scientists obviously know very little about them. You obviously know less.
    But the entire Nibiru myth relies on the fact it has a very long orbit and that it was seen by ancient civilizations.
    The rogue planets are in the middle of deep space and as the article you posted says:
    The discovered planets were free-floating gas giant planets, also described as orphan or rogue planets, that were not believed to be orbiting stars.
    Talk E wrote: »
    "Think" being the operative word here.
    So what you're saying is the people who believe in Nibiru are wrong in this respect?
    Talk E wrote: »
    I didn't say it was.
    But you did say:
    Talk E wrote: »
    A lot of Nibiru believers believe this (Comet Elenin), Is Nibiru.
    So we can conclude that these believers are wrong?


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    #64
    alanajane
    Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭alanajane


    I don't know what to think of this Nibiru business but you know, I'm not gonna worry about it, cause if it true all we can do is kiss our ass goodbye!!


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    #65
    Talk E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭Talk E


    The fact that these rogue planets exist increases the chances that Nibiru exists. It may be a small increase but still an increase.

    That's all Mob. If it upsets you, that's not my problem, don't read my posts or something god knows I try avoid yours. I'm not looking for a big barney about it. Good luck.


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    #66
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Talk E wrote: »
    The fact that these rogue planets exist increases the chances that Nibiru exists. It may be a small increase but still an increase.

    That's all Mob. If it upsets you, that's not my problem, don't read my posts or something god knows I try avoid yours. I'm not looking for a big barney about it. Good luck.
    It increases the likelihood only if you ignore the fact that the rogue planets mentioned are nothing like what people say Nibiru is.

    So you must either conclude that the believers claims about Nibiru are wrong, or you must conclude the scientists who are talking about the rogue planets are wrong.

    But you know, if actually critically examining stuff is too upsetting for you...


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    #67
    Talk E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭Talk E


    King Mob wrote: »
    It increases the likelihood only if you ignore the fact that the rogue planets mentioned are nothing like what people say Nibiru is.

    So you must either conclude that the believers claims about Nibiru are wrong, or you must conclude the scientists who are talking about the rogue planets are wrong.

    But you know, if actually critically examining stuff is too upsetting for you...


    You could also conclude that since we are only now discovering these planets (at least 10 Jupiter size planets,) who knows what could be discovered tomorrow.
    So, as I said, the possibility of finding another Jupiter sized planet (Nibiru) is more likely that previously thought.

    I would hardly call you did, a "critical examination". :pac:

    You mixed up my words to make it sound like I was suggesting Elinen was Nibiru, and then that one of those 10 planets were Nibiru. When I never suggested either.


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    #68
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Talk E wrote: »
    You could also conclude that since we are only now discovering these planets (at least 10 Jupiter size planets,) who knows what could be discovered tomorrow.
    So, as I said, the possibility of finding another Jupiter sized planet (Nibiru) is more likely that previously thought.
    And on the very minuscule chance that one of these planets close to our system is actually discovered, it can't actually be Nibiru, because it doesn't actually orbit our sun, as claimed by the believers in the myth.

    And remember this is just on the first principles of the thing, it doesn't address other factors like the fact a Jupiter sized planet a year and a bit away from us would be visible to the naked eye.
    Talk E wrote: »
    I would hardly call you did, a "critical examination". :pac:
    Why not? I pointed out a massive problem with you logic and your only response so far is to ignore it.

    For the article you posted to increase the likelihood of there actually being a Nibiru, either the believers must be wrong in that Nibiru orbits our Sun or the scientists must be wrong in that these rogue planets do not orbit a star.

    So do you have a justification for this, or are you just ignoring that problem because you don't want to critically examine something?
    Talk E wrote: »
    You mixed up my words to make it sound like I was suggesting Elinen was Nibiru, and then that one of those 10 planets were Nibiru. When I never suggested either.
    I didn't. Please show me where you think I did.


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    #69
    Talk E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭Talk E


    In the words of Rumsfeld..
    There are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
    We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.
    But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

    So there are known unknowns and unknown unknowns that could come into the equation. So while your analysis may show that Nibiru may not exist, there are unknown unknowns that might alter your view, if known. :pac:


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    #70
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Talk E wrote: »
    The fact that these rogue planets exist increases the chances that Nibiru exists. It may be a small increase but still an increase.

    No it doesn't. How does the discovery of kuiper belt objects increase the chances of a planet, matching Niburu's description? Please explain. Because nobody has stated at any point that we have found all the large bodies in our solar system. They dispute a body with an orbit that is claimed by Nibiru conspiracy theorists.


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    #71
    Talk E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭Talk E


    dlofnep wrote: »
    No it doesn't. How does the discovery of kuiper belt objects increase the chances of a planet, matching Niburu's description? Please explain. Because nobody has stated at any point that we have found all the large bodies in our solar system. They dispute a body with an orbit that is claimed by Nibiru conspiracy theorists.

    See previous post. I have to head out, i'll take care of you later..


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    #72
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Talk E wrote: »
    In the words of Rumsfeld..

    So there are known unknowns and unknown unknowns that could come into the equation. So while your analysis may show that Nibiru may not exist, there are unknown unknowns that might alter your view, if known. :pac:
    So again ignoring critical examination because you are uncomfortable doing so.

    And yes your statement is true, but it also holds true for any other entirely made up object, say Russell's Teapot for instance.


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    #73
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Talk E wrote: »
    See previous post. I have to head out, i'll take care of you later..

    I saw it - it doesn't give the slightest bit of merit to Niburu.


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    #74
    Talk E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭Talk E


    Ok gentlemen. I have had some time to reflect on my earlier post. Perhaps I was a tad over zealous in my suggestion that these planets give credence to the idea that Nibiru exists. I would like to withdraw that statement.

    But i'm not editing it :D

    And I reserve the right to edit this post later :P


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    #75
    CiaranMT
    Registered Users Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭CiaranMT


    Great.


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    #76
    Talk E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭Talk E


    CiaranMT wrote: »
    Great.


    Yes, but we are none the wiser. We're still unsure if Nibiru exists or not. :D


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    #77
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Talk E wrote: »
    Yes, but we are none the wiser. We're still unsure if Nibiru exists or not. :D

    I'm fairly certain it doesn't exist. Of course, I have to have a level of agnosticism towards it; no greater a level of agnosticism I'd give any other silly idea, though.


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    #78
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Talk E wrote: »
    Yes, but we are none the wiser. We're still unsure if Nibiru exists or not. :D

    Just as we are "unsure" Russell's teapot exists or not.


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    #79
    Talk E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭Talk E


    King Mob wrote: »
    Just as we are "unsure" Russell's teapot exists or not.


    I'm sorry, I cant make out this sentence. Could you rephrase or repair please. ?


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    #80
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Talk E wrote: »
    Yes, but we are none the wiser. We're still unsure if Nibiru exists or not. :D

    Let's suppose it does exist, hypothetically.

    Would you care to provide a guess for it's Perihelion, Aphelion (in AU), and it's current distance (also in AU) from the Sun? Also would you care to tell us if it is a Gas Giant, or more of a rock-based planet like Earth?

    If you can provide guesstimates for the above, we can at least toy with the idea for a bit of fun.


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    #81
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Talk E wrote: »
    I'm sorry, I cant make out this sentence. Could you rephrase or repair please. ?

    We are unsure about whether or not Nibiru exists in the same way we are technically "unsure" about whether or not other fictional things exist.
    Russell's teapot is the classical example of how this works.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot


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    #82
    ed2hands
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Let's suppose it does exist, hypothetically.

    Would you care to provide a guess for it's Perihelion, Aphelion (in AU), and it's current distance (also in AU) from the Sun? Also would you care to tell us if it is a Gas Giant, or more of a rock-based planet like Earth?

    If you can provide guesstimates for the above, we can at least toy with the idea for a bit of fun.


    Why don't you have a guess yourself big dog? You seem to know a bit about these things...
    What in Gods (if he exists) name is a Perihelion? (other than a word people use on discussion forums to sound impressive?:)

    I personally don't think Nibiru exists, but as they say "lack of evidence alone does not disprove a theory" so am glad of the info from both sides.

    Whether or not it was prophecised in ancient writings, one things for sure;
    they knew a hell of a lot more about astronomy than some give them credit for.

    (This link to a Graham Hancock doc has nothing to do with Nirubu, rather the wonders of ancient astronomy)
    http://www.channel4.com/programmes/quest-for-the-lost-civilisation/4od


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    #83
    Talk E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭Talk E


    Thank you mr two hands. :D


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    #84
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    ed2hands wrote: »
    Why don't you have a guess yourself big dog?

    I'm not the one attempting to prove Nibiru's existence. I don't see for it to be feasible for a planetary body to travel from the Kuiper Belt / Oort cloud or beyond, and come in as far as earth.
    ed2hands wrote: »
    What in Gods (if he exists) name is a Perihelion? (other than a word people use on discussion forums to sound impressive?:)

    No, it's not to sound impressive. This is an astronomy forum. It's not something that's complex to understand, it is the closest point at which a planet approaches the Sun, and the other is when it is at it's furthest. We don't orbit in an exact circle. Although earth's orbit is very circular in comparison to the Kuiper belt objects.
    ed2hands wrote: »
    Whether or not it was prophecised in ancient writings, one things for sure;
    they knew a hell of a lot more about astronomy than some give them credit for.

    I give ancient astronomers great credit - but I trust modern astronomers who have the benefit of large telescopes, huge computers with high processing power, and satellites.


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    #85
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Nvm - Just noticed this has been moved to the conspiracy forum. I bow out of this conversation.


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    #86
    RedRaven
    Registered Users Posts: 966 ✭✭✭RedRaven


    Part of the whole Nibiru theory is that of a governments building underground bunkers etc.

    Does this seem possible that they would keep it a secret in order to maintain control etc.


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    #87
    ed2hands
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Because they are deluded. That's about the bones of it at a very basic sociological level. I should add that some conspiracy theories have great merit and are worth discussing - but this specific one has no merit whatsoever.


    So... why are you still discussing it other than to poke fun at us "deluded" folk? :)

    If you want to we can also discuss the sociological aspect of the whole theory as you seem to be an expert on that too. :pac:


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    #88
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    RedRaven wrote: »
    Part of the whole Nibiru theory is that of a governments building underground bunkers etc.

    Does this seem possible that they would keep it a secret in order to maintain control etc.

    How exactly would they keep it under wraps?
    Or is every single astronomer (professional and amateur) in on the conspiracy?


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    #89
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    ed2hands wrote: »
    So... why are you still discussing it other than to poke fun at us "deluded" folk? :)

    I believe I had ended my discussion. This thread was originally posted in the Astronomy forum. It was moved to the conspiracy forum, so I felt the astronomical merits of a discussion were not worth wasting my time.


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    #90
    RedRaven
    Registered Users Posts: 966 ✭✭✭RedRaven


    King Mob wrote: »
    How exactly would they keep it under wraps?
    Or is every single astronomer (professional and amateur) in on the conspiracy?

    Yes I agree how would they keep it under wraps......

    what about the notion that it van only be seen from antartica........


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    #91
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    RedRaven wrote: »
    what about the notion that it van only be seen from antartica........
    That notion make absolutely no sense if you actually understand basic astronomy.
    The southern sky can be seen in it's entirety at different points at different times. There is no point in the sky that can be only seen from Antarctica.
    If anyone is saying this they are either totally ignorant of science or out and out lying.


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