Student nurses to protest over pay abolition

harar

whether student nurses are lazy or not isn't relevant to the debate on pay cuts.
being lazy as a student nurse isnt really tolerated well.. working 7 nights in a row or 13 hour shifts are required to pass each year so the an extremely lazy person would probably not make it through first year... (and i hate to pull the whole standing on my feet all day card but it feels necessary)

upandcumming

harar wrote: »

whether student nurses are lazy or not isn't relevant to the debate on pay cuts.
being lazy as a student nurse isnt really tolerated well.. working 7 nights in a row or 13 hour shifts are required to pass each year so the an extremely lazy person would probably not make it through first year... (and i hate to pull the whole standing on my feet all day card but it feels necessary)

I never heard of a student nurse work 7 nights in a row.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Have to say, the nurses deserve it. It's all well and good to say we've all taken cuts (and I feel it as much as anyone) but those in construction, offices, schools, etc. don't have to deal with psychiatric patients, don't have to clean up a patient and a bed after an elderly person has had an accident, and don't have to have the responsibility of ill people every minute of their working lives.

Student or not, these nurses do things we would not do for any wage.

harar

upandcumming wrote: »

I never heard of a student nurse work 7 nights in a row.

thats what will be expected of me and my class during our internship..and what the 4th year interns are doing at the moment

ene

in the rostered placement a student nurse has to work 2 sets of 7 nights and also weekends whenever they are rostered

considerning it costs the hse 15euro a hour to get a carer to work on a sunday and 27euro a hour for a nurse on a sunday it seem ridiculous to cut the students pay since they are replacing the actual staff nurses

Babyblessed

onelessprob wrote: »

The point was we have to look at our current number of nurses per capita. Rather than lay off, the powers may moratorium new recruits, non-domestically trained, etc. And i wouldn't say i don't know jack stars! I am well up on international health-care employment. We are producing 1600 graduates that we can't employ. Not paying someone for 9 months of pre-reg work is not to be compared with the slave trade. No-one benifits from this comparrison except newspapers. In all lines of work this is now the norm. And saying a patients life is are in danger is just waving the health-care stick, akin to blackmail. You can't say people will die, you cannot run a business without any sense of cost management, just because it is healthcare. The money belongs to the taxpayer, not the HSE for employees to spend as they will with no accountability or stewardship.

As to your comment about being forced to recruit high cost nurses from elsewhere. I think the HSE is no longer "either or", it's "neither." That is the point of there cuts. Although if you have evidence of people being brought in from outside at higher pay in place of irish nurses, please share.

+ How much does the 3 3/4 years of college cost the state in relation to the 9 months pay?

The figures you quote regarding nurses (what about midwives?) per capita are old, 8 years old... 2003 figures.
We start to train 1600 per annum but there are drop outs... not that many qualify and in the last 2 years the government have cut nursing places. They havent cut midwifery places because they deemed there to be too few midwives in the country........... shame they arent employing these midwives.
4 FULL years of nurse/midwifery training cost the tax payer circa €90k, I am not sure if that does or does not include rostered year.
With regards to the 'higher pay' issue, there are many agency nurses/midwives working on the wards. Some work 3 days a week every week, they would be more expensive than regular permanent workers. Unfortunately the moratorium prevents the HSE employing them permanently which would work out cheaper. Obviously not all agency workers are so lucky.

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pragmatic1 wrote: »

Went to college last year and was friends with a few 4th year student nurses. They've all since found employment in Britain. One of the major advantages for them seeking employment was the practical experience they gained on their last 9 months placement.

I know from talking to them that they worked extremely hard. However, the investment in their training is unlikely to benefit the Irish state for quite some time to come. Most of my friends from my own course have availed of the fas WPP1, whereby they work in a placement for free but are allowed to draw benefits. Most are reaching 9 months in their placements.

Very complex situation with no quick fix solutions. No wonder the youth of this country are leaving in droves.

I feel sad for those who have no other alternative than go to other countries to work. Many will never come home because the new rules mean they will come back to the HSE as a new worker.... therefore on the lowest salary as a new entrant no matter if they have 2-3 (or more) experience elsewhere.
As an employed (albeit shortly to be unpaid) worker in the HSE these workers will not be able to avail of benefits at least that would make things easier.....

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onelessprob wrote: »

Have a look at our "Nurses per capita" stats, as a country.

14 per 1,000.

2nd in the world, behind only Finland. Twice that of France at 6.7.

How is this explained? Do nurses cover jobs that are done by non-nurse staff in other countries?

As a non-nurse, this seems like a luxury that a broke country with a high basic wage simply cannot afford. Obviously a hugely contentious issue, as nurses are a well unionised, vocal and popular cohort.

If the Government is trying to cut numbers, surely the least worst option would have been to address the issue of nursing places in college, to avoid a situation where the single largest employer cannot take the people who they have spent the last 3 years training.

As I said above 2003 figures.
The government have cut figures by 20% on some nursing courses.
Unfortunately there are jobs out there, I believe CUMH is short nearly 80 full time midwives. They are being replaced by agency staff, more expensive if full-time but maybe more flexible. Still leaves an issue around continuity of care.

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mehfesto wrote: »

As a former Nurse I can only say this is appalling. I gave up the job because I could no longer take the lifestyle - it was hectic beyond belief.

12hr shifts are bad enough, but when they contain aspects like being expected to deal with the death of a patient and then carry on as if nothing has happened - well, it's not a normal job. Even as a student nurse it's not easy.

I couldn't hack it. I can only applaud those who do. It's emotionally and physically draining - even as a student. Infact, particularly as a student. I don't know how they'd cope without money for 'luxuries' like a car to get to and from work (Trust me - getting a bus to and from a 1hour shift is heartbreaking), or even have enough money feckin' lunch for godsake.

It's appalling to think that of my former class of 84, only 5 are left working in Ireland. But if the country is happy to have a nursing shortage, I say be it on their head.

We can afford to keep paying our Taoiseach more than the US President.
We can afford to pay hundreds of bogus claims to welfare weekly.
We can afford to prop up dodgy banks.

We cannot afford to pay the small wages of the people who will care for us in our time of need and who will maintain our dignity when we no longer can.

Shame.

I feel for you, you are obviously a caring person and you should have been given more support.
5 left working in Ireland is a shocking statistic but not surprising given the current situation.

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harar wrote: »

thats what will be expected of me and my class during our internship..and what the 4th year interns are doing at the moment

Yep, me too! They try to avoid the 7 long days/nights but it does happen occasionally.

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Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Have to say, the nurses deserve it. It's all well and good to say we've all taken cuts (and I feel it as much as anyone) but those in construction, offices, schools, etc. don't have to deal with psychiatric patients, don't have to clean up a patient and a bed after an elderly person has had an accident, and don't have to have the responsibility of ill people every minute of their working lives.

Student or not, these nurses do things we would not do for any wage.

I love my job! But I dont love paying a mortgage with buttons!

Babyblessed

ene wrote: »

in the rostered placement a student nurse has to work 2 sets of 7 nights and also weekends whenever they are rostered

considerning it costs the hse 15euro a hour to get a carer to work on a sunday and 27euro a hour for a nurse on a sunday it seem ridiculous to cut the students pay since they are replacing the actual staff nurses

ene, thanks for that... Some of my colleagues are working with nurse agencies as HCA's and are earning more now than they will in pre-reg rostered year when they will take patient case loads and more importantly responsibility.

ene

well as a student nurse i know that the majority of the course do agency work as extra experience/money during the first 3 years, however everyone, myself included have found it very difficult to differentiate the roles as many hospitals actually request student nurses as carers as we are more qualified and they can make us do obs etc.

the things we do even on 1st year placements is more then the health care assistants and i think its ridiculous that the hse think they can pick on the students who do jobs that no one would ever volunteer to do

Babyblessed

ene wrote: »

well as a student nurse i know that the majority of the course do agency work as extra experience/money during the first 3 years, however everyone, myself included have found it very difficult to differentiate the roles as many hospitals actually request student nurses as carers as we are more qualified and they can make us do obs etc.

the things we do even on 1st year placements is more then the health care assistants and i think its ridiculous that the hse think they can pick on the students who do jobs that no one would ever volunteer to do

Completely agree Ene.... the things we do in the first 3 years are certainly not supernumery!!

wmpdd3

Can only speak from personal experiance:

I have my daughter in Sept, The only qualified personnel I met in 6 days in hospital were the midwife who delivered the baby and the head midwife, who did the rounds daily.

The 2 nurses in the day and the night nurse were students.

One girl worked the 1st 5 days I was there, 9 or 12 hr shifts. I work 50hrs per week and wouldn't dream of doing that work for nothing.

This girl gave me my meds, spent hours getting my baby to latch on, completed the discharge details and wrote all the documents to be given to the doctors.

Maybe the head midwife signed off on her work, but I didn't see it.

Hopefully this girl got a job outside the country by now, as this was her plan.

The HSE are exploiting cheap labour to fill holes left from the recruitment embargo.

What exactly would happen if all student nurses only worked/trained on wards 9-5pm from now on...... how many wards would close.

Dont have any connection with nurses and think there should be atleast a 33% reduction in HSE back room staff.

Mooo

Im actually really surprised that student nurses get paid.

4th year Social Work students do months of work experience, take on their own caseloads, do the frontline work/ case work, work in child protection/homeless services/mental health/hospitals etc... and don't get a penny.

No money for the work. No money to get lunch. No money for petrol spent on home visits or bus cards. Nothing.

The work experience runs 4 days a week and then 5 days a week when the rest of the college is on a break. It goes for 5-6months.

It bothered me at the time and then I didn't know that other students were getting paid.

HSE is the biggest employer of Social Workers and provide the majority of placements.

So why is there funding for some work experience and not others?

There's protests about the money getting cut for nursing. There wasn't ever any money for social work.

mumtoe&e

baldbear wrote: »

Do student nurses in the UK get paid?

They get a bursuary in the UK for the 3 years duration of the course!!!
I am a student Midwife - the course is 4 years - placement is very tough going, long hours (8.30am-9.15pm at the moment) and we work hard. I am a mother of 2 children, with a mortgage - when I signed up for this course, I signed up with the perception that I would be getting paid in 4th year!

German student midwives get paid for the whole duration of their course (3 years) to the sum of approx. 800e per month!

Anyone who thinks that this sick move by the government, is fair, should come work as a student nurse/midwife!

Fab job, absolutely love it, and yes, it most definitely is a vocation - anyone doing nursing or midwifery is definitely not in it for a heifty salary thats for sure!!
Surely to god we deserve payment in 4th year - for 13 hr shifts, nights, weekends etc, no?