Student nurses to protest over pay abolition

hatrickpatrick · 01-02-2011 7:11pm #1

http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/nurses-planning-series-of-protests-over-cuts-54227.html

Personally I couldn't possibly support this any more. I was in hospital myself for several months in 2006 and there were always a good few student nurses around who delivered absolutely excellent care as well as being very helpful and friendly.

They work full days for 6 months on top of having other college assignments and the usual college related stress to put up with. It's actually sickening that the government would target them. Given some of the things I saw while in hospital if I'd thought those poor students weren't being paid for what they were doing I probably would have protested myself.

On top of all that, I find it utterly scandalous that we're talking about basically using student nurses as slave nurses whilst we are allowing bankers (who we are now, in effect, the employers of) to continue receiving multi million euro pay cheques.

I know a lot of people will jump in here and talk about entitlement and more of the usual "put up and shut up" crap about cuts, but IMO this is yet another example of how the government are choosing the easy targets for cuts and protecting the few at the expense of the many.

If there is a protest march held I will be joining them. Anyone else?
(Also please don't buy this "all hands on deck" nonsense. It seems to convince a lot of people but the truth of it is that it's more like "all hands on deck apart from the first class passengers who have their hands on the arms of deck chairs.)

steddyeddy · 01-02-2011 7:16pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/nurses-planning-series-of-protests-over-cuts-54227.html

Personally I couldn't possibly support this any more. I was in hospital myself for several months in 2006 and there were always a good few student nurses around who delivered absolutely excellent care as well as being very helpful and friendly.

They work full days for 6 months on top of having other college assignments and the usual college related stress to put up with. It's actually sickening that the government would target them. Given some of the things I saw while in hospital if I'd thought those poor students weren't being paid for what they were doing I probably would have protested myself.

On top of all that, I find it utterly scandalous that we're talking about basically using student nurses as slave nurses whilst we are allowing bankers (who we are now, in effect, the employers of) to continue receiving multi million euro pay cheques.

I know a lot of people will jump in here and talk about entitlement and more of the usual "put up and shut up" crap about cuts, but IMO this is yet another example of how the government are choosing the easy targets for cuts and protecting the few at the expense of the many.

If there is a protest march held I will be joining them. Anyone else?
(Also please don't buy this "all hands on deck" nonsense. It seems to convince a lot of people but the truth of it is that it's more like "all hands on deck apart from the first class passengers who have their hands on the arms of deck chairs.)

Its absolutly scumbag behaviour to try to impliment this, how dare they treat the men and women who look after our sick and infirm like this while mary harney is walking away with 300k plus. If this comes in ill march with them and I have no intent to keep to peaceful methods. Disgrace. By the way im not related to any nurses but I know one day ill be sick.

Hogzy · 01-02-2011 7:17pm

I 100% agree with you. My girlfriend is a student nurse and this is going to affect her greatly. Due to the shifts she will be working she will have to give up her part time job that she has been working in for the last 5 years. She currently works 2 days in her part time job in a clothing shop and she will earn less when she works full time at her nursing job.

It is slave labour when some students have to work a part time job to survive. How can you expect a student to work a full time job, a part time job, keep up with her college course and have any sort of social life. Its crazy.

And considering the hours are irregular there is no way in hell any part time job would keep you on as your shifts change every week.

Azureus · 01-02-2011 7:19pm

I read this in the papers today and couldnt believe it!
In fairness in my industry a lot of interns / students work for free, but I cant imagine their workload is *anything* like nurses have to deal with.

Lumen · 01-02-2011 7:21pm

slave

Definition
a person who is legally owned by someone else and has to work for them

steddyeddy · 01-02-2011 7:23pm

Lumen wrote: »

slave

Definition
a person who is legally owned by someone else and has to work for them

The term prime minister was originally meant as an insult, point is the meaning of words can and have changed.

PeterIanStaker · 01-02-2011 7:24pm

Members of my immediate family are nurses - I know exactly how hard they work and I think this is nothing short of low and rotten. It suits the money-pyre called the HSE to do this, in the hope (from its pov) that those graduates will emigrate.:mad:

mikom · 01-02-2011 7:24pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

yet another example of how the government are choosing the easy targets for cuts and protecting the few at the expense of the many.

QFT.

Imagine you ould lad or ould wan seriously ill in hospital being care for by someone who is unpaid.
This "vocation" shite went out with the magdalene laundries.

baldbear · 01-02-2011 7:26pm

Do student nurses in the UK get paid?

Yakult · 01-02-2011 7:30pm

A joke.

The last thing people need are student nurses drained of energy due to what seems like a v.busy schedule (Possibly busier down the line) and lack on concentration. In that field it can mean life and death.

Once again, everyone but the government/bankers gets screwed.

IvySlayer · 01-02-2011 7:32pm

The government is gone now, surely there must be some way to reverse this? It's ridiculous.

hatrickpatrick · 01-02-2011 7:33pm

Lumen wrote: »

slave

Definition
a person who is legally owned by someone else and has to work for them

Would you prefer I referred to them as sweat shop labour then?

Lumen · 01-02-2011 7:34pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Would you prefer I referred to them as sweat shop labour then?

Are they labouring in a sweat shop?

steddyeddy · 01-02-2011 7:37pm

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Members of my immediate family are nurses - I know exactly how hard they work and I think this is nothing short of low and rotten. It suits the money-pyre called the HSE to do this, in the hope (from its pov) that those graduates will emigrate.:mad:

most of all from what I saw, they work with a smile on their faces, in extremely long hours and often dont take breaks.

hatrickpatrick · 01-02-2011 7:37pm

IvySlayer wrote: »

The government is gone now, surely there must be some way to reverse this? It's ridiculous.

The government is gone but a bit like Zaphod Beeblebrox they have left a predefined path for their successors in the form of Mr. Chopper & co.
Is this cut part, I wonder, of the bailout terms?
Just how much power does any incoming government have over budgetary policy under it?
Either way, this must go.
I urge everyone reading this, whether you are a nurse or not, to join such protests if and when they occur.

And if you're thinking about adopting that "it's not my section of society so I can be apathetic", consider the domino effect:
"When they came for the jews, the gays, the blacks and the disabled, I did not speak out, for I was not a jew, a gay, a black or a disabled person.
When they came for me, there was nobody else left to speak out for me."

Not sure where that quote comes from but it should be emblazoned above the gates of our parliament for the next number of years to remind this country how these things work.

Cunning Alias · 01-02-2011 7:37pm

Dont agree that it should disappear completely but if everyone is taking cuts, why not them? They knew what they were signing up for. If the only reason they went into nursing was to get paid in 4th year, then they shouldnt be there in the first place.

This is still their training period. In most industries now you have to work as an unpaid intern before you get a paid possition. Even with high level qualifications.

hatrickpatrick · 01-02-2011 7:39pm

Lumen wrote: »

Are they labouring in a sweat shop?

That's what a hospital will become if the staff aren't being paid for their work...

Hogzy · 01-02-2011 7:39pm

Lumen wrote: »

Are they labouring in a sweat shop?

In a way you could say they are owned by the HSE because if they do not take part in the Work placement scheme then they do not get their degree. And if they do not get their degree then they are truely screwed. So they literally have to work for them in order to be released from college with any sort of qualification

For something that will only save a few million a year surely something else can be done. There cant be that many 4th year nurses in the country in any given year.

Cunning Alias wrote: »

Dont agree that it should disappear completely but if everyone is taking cuts, why not them? They knew what they were signing up for.

What they actually signed up for was an agreement guaranteeing them a certain wage. I saw my girlfriends one and it is essentially a contract guaranteeing a weekly sum of money. I dont know how they can get around it but somehow they have.

This is still their training period. In most industries now you have to work as an unpaid intern before you get a paid possition. Even with high level qualifications.

True but the level of responsibility assigned to you as a 4th year nurse is almost equal to that of a fully qualified nurse. You are given your own patients to look after on your own. Essentially what the HSE is doing is trying to get rid of as much paid nurses as they can so they can replace them with free labour. Your pay should mirror your responsibilities no matter what you do.

I guarantee you regular nurses will end up loosing their jobs in the long run because of a scheme like this.

Arnold Layne · 01-02-2011 7:40pm

baldbear wrote: »

Do student nurses in the UK get paid?

Your point being? Why pick the UK?

PeterIanStaker · 01-02-2011 7:43pm

Hogzy wrote: »

For something that will only save a few million a year surely something else can be done. There cant be that many 4th year nurses in the country in any given year.

Reducing the number of TD's, their salaries and expenses would save far more money than not paying a few hundred/thousand nurses.

Cookie_Monster · 01-02-2011 7:43pm

Cunning Alias wrote: »

This is still their training period. In most industries now you have to work as an unpaid intern before you get a paid possition. Even with high level qualifications.

I have to say I agree with this to a certain extent, especially given the industry, paying unqualified people 80% of a full wage where every they do has to be overseen by a qualified person anyway is a massive cost duplication.

Of course there has to be a certain amount of leeway to encourage/ enable people to complete the course and if such training means you can't work part time then some sort of solution is required to compensate for that. 80% of full wage for someone un-qualified is far to high though IMO.

littlemutha · 01-02-2011 7:44pm

baldbear wrote: »

Do student nurses in the UK get paid?

They get a bursary for the 3 years they are training, irish nursing students only get paid in their 4th year but they are frontline rostered staff, completely different to a UK student nurse. The UK student nurses are supernumery (supervised/supported) for the 3 years, the irish student nurse in their 4th year 9 month internship replace qualified nurses and work weekends and night shifts. I hope this answers your question.

Hogzy · 01-02-2011 7:47pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

paying unqualified people 80% of a full wage where every they do has to be overseen by a qualified person anyway is a massive cost duplication.

It doesnt. For a large majority of the part they are on their own.

littlemutha · 01-02-2011 7:48pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I have to say I agree with this to a certain extent, especially given the industry, paying unqualified people 80% of a full wage where every they do has to be overseen by a qualified person anyway is a massive cost duplication.

Of course there has to be a certain amount of leeway to encourage/ enable people to complete the course and if such training means you can't work part time then some sort of solution is required to compensate for that. 80% of full wage for someone un-qualified is far to high though IMO.

These interns that you mention that are unpaid, do they work night shifts and weekends and actually replace the qualified staff? And are they 100% responsible for people's health and lives???

Larianne · 01-02-2011 7:50pm

Cunning Alias wrote: »

If the only reason they went into nursing was to get paid in 4th year...

I highly doubt that.

Doctors get paid as interns, right?

Cookie_Monster · 01-02-2011 7:50pm

littlemutha wrote: »

These interns that you mention that are unpaid, do they work night shifts and weekends and actually replace the qualified staff? And are they 100% responsible for people's health and lives???

what unpaid interns did I mention

Hogzy wrote: »

It doesnt. For a large majority of the part they are on their own.

that's fantastically reassuring...
But clearly not their (the students) fault, but part of the bigger problem with the HSE and health in Ireland in general

n900guy · 01-02-2011 7:51pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/nurses-planning-series-of-protests-over-cuts-54227.html

Personally I couldn't possibly support this any more. I was in hospital myself for several months in 2006 and there were always a good few student nurses around who delivered absolutely excellent care as well as being very helpful and friendly.
....

The country has tended towards the Anglophone/US model of society - that isn't one where student nurses get paid. As you may have noticed nearby, they will also be paying through the nose for those degrees in the near future in Ireland, even with working for free for part of it. Then, pay 55% tax in a state facility subcontracted out to a US insurance company and bingo! Future of Irish healthcare!

mikom · 01-02-2011 7:51pm

Cunning Alias wrote: »

In most industries now you have to work as an unpaid intern before you get a paid possition. Even with high level qualifications.

Typo by a unpaid journalist intern, tired because they work another job to survive.

Typo by a unpaid nursing intern, tired because they work another job to survive.

One Typo is in a newspaper, the other is in your mother or fathers chart.
No comparison.

Roger Marbles · 01-02-2011 7:55pm

Student nurses do get breaks, one one hour break and 2 fifteen minutes break for the average shift. These breaks are ring fenced off.

They do get overpaid compared to qualified healthcare assistants. They are not qualified and shouldn't be working but learning from qualified nurses in a supervised setting. Much like any other field. It's just cheap labour from the governements point of view.

And nurses in general get overpaid and don't do the work they take "training days" off at the taxpayers expense e.g. cannula insertion, ECGs, first dose medications. The standard line is "I'm not covered to do that" when in fact they are. They also leave a lot of the manual work to health care assistants and porters and use the not covered line quite frequently here too.

Look at any other EU healthcare system and you will find nurses do this stuff and aren't as lazy and overpaid as their Irish equivalents.

Hogzy · 01-02-2011 7:55pm

TBH its a scary fact that one day we could be in hospital where 70% of the nurses are unpaid students. Thats what this is leading to.

I never want my health to be in the hands of someone who is unpaid and resents their job. Whether or not they are any good at their job is a separate matter.

Cunning Alias · 01-02-2011 7:57pm

littlemutha wrote: »

These interns that you mention that are unpaid, do they work night shifts and weekends and actually replace the qualified staff? And are they 100% responsible for people's health and lives???

Health and lives, no. The rest of it depends on the position. My sister worked for a year in advertising which was about 50 hours a week very little weekend work though.

A mate of mine in event management has been working unpaid for about 6 months, also doing about 50 hours + saturday and sundays in a part time job.

Basically, its hard everywhere at the mo.

How many hours a week do the student nurses do?

Student nurses to protest over pay abolition

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