Student nurses to protest over pay abolition

aisling.laura

melekalikimaka wrote: »

there are bigger issues going on and maybe you are an easy target, justifying the expense of paying students is no longer a luxury the state can afford

The state can't justify paying students who work the exact same hours as staff nurses and midwives, doing the exact same tasks, but can justify paying consultant obstetricians over 200 grand per year for their public contracts, on top of their private patients fees?

When all the prospective student midwives and nurses decide to go abroad to train and work, and the recruitment freeze on the HSE leaves this country's hospitals even more gravely understaffed than they already are, the department of health will regret focusing on the 'bigger issues' and wish they'd funded this 'luxury'.

mikom

aisling.laura wrote: »

The state can't justify paying students who work the exact same hours as staff nurses and midwives, doing the exact same tasks, but can justify paying consultant obstetricians over 200 grand per year for their public contracts, on top of their private patients fees?

Fuckin' country is up in a heap

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

c_man

They should get something, but I can't believe they got 80% of the minmum nurse wage :eek:

George83

baldbear wrote: »

Do student nurses in the UK get paid?

Depends if they are degree or diploma level students. Degree students have to pay for their tuition costs & diploma students get a bursary of around £4000 a year. Soon it'll be all degree entry (excellent imho) but that'll mean student nurses get no pay.

al_E_kat

I haven't read through all of this so I'm sorry if I'm repeating a point already made but I think that part of all this thats the most annoying is that there are student gardai that are paid as well as other hse professions that as students get paid that haven't had any cuts, student nurses (myself included I'm in week 3 of my internship) understand that times are tough but surely if our wages are cut then other professions should face the same.

ditzydayz

Cunning Alias wrote: »

I left my part time job in October of my final year to focus on my degree and used savings and the end of a loan to survive. Im sure many have done the same. Why can't they do this?

Well you see the thing with loans is that you have to make repayments on them....how can you make these repayments, plus pay your Student Registration Fee of €2000 plus feed yourself, plus pay rent if you have no source of income???

I have said since hearing this that if we were given guaranteed set in stone working hours then it wouldnt be so bad...I can understand that cuts need to be made...but the fact that I will not be able to hold down a part time job due to the erratic hours i will be scheduled makes this impossible for me and I actually have no idea what I'm going to do

I also want to point out to the people who have said that other interns dont get paid etc....most degree courses are only 3 years, we do 4 years while our UK counterparts do 3. Also in our internship year we work 9 months (through the summer) and there are not many internships ask this of their trainees.

Mister men

This is what Ireland has come to in 2011. Working for free.:mad:

dxhound2005

When did student nurses at university start getting paid? According to this article from April 2000 they became unpaid when nursing became a university course, before that they were paid learning on the job.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/nurses-need-to-be-nursed-513786.html

This is the relevant quote from the article:

Medicine went high-tech. So did nursing, and it is now a university-based course. That means that 3,500 student nurses were removed from the workplace. They are now officially on the wards only to `observe and learn', to gain clinical practice.

For the nurses that means they are no longer paid. Where once a trainee nurse's annual income started at £6,000 and went up to £12,500 during their three years of training, they are now just students, earning nothing. And some would argue that, despite the rhetoric, they are used as unpaid help. For while the course is university-based, it is still a 35-hour week.

upandcumming

aisling.laura wrote: »

The state can't justify paying students who work the exact same hours as staff nurses and midwives, doing the exact same tasks, but can justify paying consultant obstetricians over 200 grand per year for their public contracts, on top of their private patients fees?

Yep, the consultants deserve every penny. They study for six years in college and the a further 10-12 years between internships, house officers and the rest.

Conor Bourke

Lumen wrote: »

slave

Definition
a person who is legally owned by someone else and has to work for them

The students pretty much are owned by the hospital/university. If they don't have 100% attendance in both theoretical and clinical placements the university can refuse to allow them to graduate and/or register with an Bord Altranais, even if they've passed all their exams and completed all of their competency assessments, so their 4 years of study is up the Swanee if they aren't in for placement every day or in a position to repay missed hours in their own personal time.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When did student nurses at university start getting paid? According to this article from April 2000 they became unpaid when nursing became a university course, before that they were paid learning on the job.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/nurses-need-to-be-nursed-513786.html

This is the relevant quote from the article:

Medicine went high-tech. So did nursing, and it is now a university-based course. That means that 3,500 student nurses were removed from the workplace. They are now officially on the wards only to `observe and learn', to gain clinical practice.

For the nurses that means they are no longer paid. Where once a trainee nurse's annual income started at £6,000 and went up to £12,500 during their three years of training, they are now just students, earning nothing. And some would argue that, despite the rhetoric, they are used as unpaid help. For while the course is university-based, it is still a 35-hour week.

The nursing bodies haven't got a clue what they're at, I was in the very first intake of the degree students. We did the "Rostered year" from Jan 3rd year to Jan 4th year which was an unmitigated disaster, but they copped that soon enough and decided on this current "internship" system. It's a reactive system, lurching from one failure to the next.

The number of student nurse places have been reduced in colleges/universities but have there been corresponding cutbacks in the numbers of nurse lecturers/clinical placement co-ordinators? If not, and if there's going to be less students in the next few years, what will these people be doing with their days and how will hospitals/universities justify keeping these people in full time employment?
Will they be re-deployed to ward nursing duties (which they would have done once upon a time) or (more likely scenario) will they spend their extra time on pointless research (ie not related to pressing clinical issues) or some other such pat nonsense.

bozley

melekalikimaka wrote: »

there are bigger issues going on and maybe you are an easy target, justifying the expense of paying students is no longer a luxury the state can afford

It sickens me the way we are compared to ur stereotypical 'student'!!
Some of the comments on here have disgusted me! Looking forward to giving you an IM someday melekalikilaka!! Idiot!!

steddyeddy

upandcumming wrote: »

Yep, the consultants deserve every penny. They study for six years in college and the a further 10-12 years between internships, house officers and the rest.

Do nurses not work as hard?

Buceph

bozley wrote: »

It sickens me the way we are compared to ur stereotypical 'student'!!
Some of the comments on here have disgusted me! Looking forward to giving you an IM someday melekalikilaka!! Idiot!!

You weren't compared to the stereotypical student. You were compared to students.

Although I could do the same and compare you to the stereotypical nurse. Of which I could tell plenty of stories.

bozley

Yep, I've seen plenty of those nurses too, can't deny that. In fact, I myself have been a victim of bad practice, however that doesn't justify working long shifts for nothing. Having said that, I'm prepared to do it cos I love nursing and I'm damn good at it too. Your support is invaluable to us

mikemac

Maybe the HSE will retaliate over the protest though

Can they go to the Philippines to hire nurses, they seem excellent
Or maybe some other country when has an equivalent level of training.

Why pay for student nurses when you can hire fully trained nurses who are happy to work.
I'm just thinking as a HSE manager might here.

bozley

feelingstressed wrote: »

Maybe the HSE will retaliate over the protest though

Can they go to the Philippines to hire nurses, they seem excellent
Or maybe some other country when has an equivalent level of training.

Why pay for student nurses when you can hire fully trained nurses who are happy to work.
I'm just thinking as a HSE manager might here.

Absolutely!! Spend 90,000 euro training a nurse to degree level and go and hire elsewhere! I can't be sure but I'm sure Ireland is the only place to train undergraduate nurses at degree level! It's a fact that Irish trained nurses are highly regarded due to the degree qualification.

Tea-a-Maria

While I sympathise with student nurses having their pay cut,I do wonder why student teachers aren't paid.In final year they are effectively teaching full time and have massive stress with notes and inspections,as well as personal expense in preparing lessons,but receive no money at all for it.

I'm aware that 5 weeks and 9 months are two very different time periods,but the fact that one currently gets paid and the other doesn't strikes me as unfair.

Rodin

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/nurses-planning-series-of-protests-over-cuts-54227.html

Personally I couldn't possibly support this any more. I was in hospital myself for several months in 2006 and there were always a good few student nurses around who delivered absolutely excellent care as well as being very helpful and friendly.

They work full days for 6 months on top of having other college assignments and the usual college related stress to put up with. It's actually sickening that the government would target them. Given some of the things I saw while in hospital if I'd thought those poor students weren't being paid for what they were doing I probably would have protested myself.
On top of all that, I find it utterly scandalous that we're talking about basically using student nurses as slave nurses whilst we are allowing bankers (who we are now, in effect, the employers of) to continue receiving multi million euro pay cheques.
I know a lot of people will jump in here and talk about entitlement and more of the usual "put up and shut up" crap about cuts, but IMO this is yet another example of how the government are choosing the easy targets for cuts and protecting the few at the expense of the many.
If there is a protest march held I will be joining them. Anyone else?
(Also please don't buy this "all hands on deck" nonsense. It seems to convince a lot of people but the truth of it is that it's more like "all hands on deck apart from the first class passengers who have their hands on the arms of deck chairs.)

I don't see student doctors getting bursaries or paid.
It's part of training, and I don't think they should be paid at all for it
So what if they strike. Aren't there lots of unemployed nurses who'll take the jobs?.

Rodin

upandcumming wrote: »

Yep, the consultants deserve every penny. They study for six years in college and the a further 10-12 years between internships, house officers and the rest.

The original poster clearly has no concept of the huge gulf in experience, training, abiliy and responsibility between a student nurse and a consultant obstetrician

steddyeddy

Rodin wrote: »

The original poster clearly has no concept of the huge gulf in experience, training, abiliy and responsibility between a student nurse and a consultant obstetrician

and often nepotism involved to getting to their respective positions

Rodin

Originally Posted by upandcumming View Post
Yep, the consultants deserve every penny. They study for six years in college and the a further 10-12 years between internships, house officers and the rest.
Do nurses not work as hard?

Are ye having a laugh?

upandcumming

steddyeddy wrote: »

Do nurses not work as hard?

Do they study and do exams for over 15 years and take on the pressure of operations and diagnosis of patients?

hatrickpatrick

melekalikimaka wrote: »

there are bigger issues going on and maybe you are an easy target, justifying the expense of paying students is no longer a luxury the state can afford

I don't understand your argument at all. What difference does a qualification make to the fairly basic concept that you do hard work in an industry = you get paid for it?

The student nurses are just as important as the fully qualified ones, the hospitals wouldn't function half as well without them. Why are you acting like being a student automatically means your work in a hospital is meaningless? It's the same f*cking work!!!

hatrickpatrick

bozley wrote: »

It sickens me the way we are compared to ur stereotypical 'student'!!
Some of the comments on here have disgusted me! Looking forward to giving you an IM someday melekalikilaka!! Idiot!!

^^^ The above outlines EXACTLY why resentful student nurses are bad for the country. I don't blame them one bit.
Can you honestly imagine them being as friendly or as helpful as they are if they're stressed to the point of collapse?

Again, these politicians go for the easy targets... Until of course they have to go in for an operation and a student who is overworked, over-stressed, and angry to cap it all off makes a mistake at their expense.
Hardly all that relevant though I guess since as we all know politicians provide public services and avail of private ones themselves so they don't have to reap what they sow, eh?

mikemac

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The student nurses are just as important as the fully qualified ones, the hospitals wouldn't function half as well without them. Why are you acting like being a student automatically means your work in a hospital is meaningless? It's the same f*cking work!!!

Nursing wasn't always a degree subject, it used to treated as a vocation and so degree graduate salaries didn't come into it.

If a student nurse is just as important as a qualified nurse and does the same work as posted above, then why is it a degree course? Clearly then it doesn't take four years to train a nurse

Larianne

feelingstressed wrote: »

Why pay for student nurses when you can hire fully trained nurses who are happy to work.
I'm just thinking as a HSE manager might here.

Because it would be a cyclical turnover of (student) staff rather than hiring full-time nursing staff who would be required to get pay increases depending on years in service, be open to getting promotions, pension and other perks which I am not familiar with.

Rodin

feelingstressed wrote: »

Nursing wasn't always a degree subject, it used to treated as a vocation and so degree graduate salaries didn't come into it.

If a student nurse is just as important as a qualified nurse and does the same work as posted above, then why is it a degree course? Clearly then it doesn't take four years to train a nurse

I'd say you're spot on. Two years max

hatrickpatrick

Buceph wrote: »

You weren't compared to the stereotypical student. You were compared to students.

Although I could do the same and compare you to the stereotypical nurse. Of which I could tell plenty of stories.

Again. How does being, or not being, a student make any difference? You do X work, you get paid Y for it. Should be the same for everyone.

mikemac

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Again. How does being, or not being, a student make any difference? You do X work, you get paid Y for it. Should be the same for everyone.

If you are confident you can do the same work as a qualified nurse after three years then there is no need to have nurses doing a four year degree so.

End the course at three years and then job hunting begins.
You won't have a honours degree but going by your posts, you don't need it to do the job.