Army looking for extra payment

BostonB

Poccington wrote: »

You mean stuff like the deafness claims, PTSD claims, "Sure they do **** all anyway!" or "The DF are gouging the taxpayer"?

This topic ceased to be a discussion on the merits of the ACA Allowance being payable to certain members of the DF a long time ago.

All that and people on oversea's duty, bombs in the North all that malarky also.

poppyvalley

Ah Jayze lads! where is human kindness gone? Can we not help out our fellow citizens in very difficult times without looking to get f****ing paid. I was proud of the lads at first but I'm beginning to change my mind now

Poccington

BostonB wrote: »

This was posted earlier...I've edited it slightly...



They don't overtime, as has pointed out previously.

Its also the troops on call, not the ones clearing the snow that the union is requesting this payment for. The ones clearing the snow got it automatically (I assume).

No, it's for troops who were part of Standby Platoon's which were based in barracks on a 24 hour basis. Standby Platoon troops were the ones used to perform ACA duties such as snow clearing, with additional troops(Mostly drivers) detailed for HSE duties.

Any troops who were not part of Standby Platoon's and cleared snow during their working day aren't entitled to the ACA Allowance and PDFORRA aren't looking for payment for those troops.

The case PDFORRA is making is for troops who were part of Standby Platoons and/or HSE duties, both of which went on for a duration of 24 hours, with troops based in barracks for the night.

mbiking123

would have thought something like heavy snow and exceptionally low temperatures would throw normal working hours out the window, but based on your post, that doesnt matter to our armed services, so if anyone needs help at 17:01 they better hope for someone else.

No, thats up to the government to decide. 40 inches of snow in Central Park New York. You dont see a national emergencey over there. We just dont know how to cope with low temperatures. -13 is not exceptionally low, you can get up to -30 in parts of Germany.

If governemnt decide a call out they can, all memeber of the Defence Forces are on call, even when out of the state they are contactable and can be called home. This oes happen but not often. Search and Rescue (for example)would be considered more important than clearing snow. People have been called out of homes etc to go on SAR

mbiking123

Ah Jayze lads! where is human kindness gone? Can we not help out our fellow citizens in very difficult times without looking to get f****ing paid. I was proud of the lads at first but I'm beginning to change my mind now

The troops clearing snow got paid, just normal pay no extras. Do you expect them to work for nothing.

BostonB

Poccington wrote: »

No, it's for troops who were part of Standby Platoon's which were based in barracks on a 24 hour basis. Standby Platoon troops were the ones used to perform ACA duties such as snow clearing, with additional troops(Mostly drivers) detailed for HSE duties.

Any troops who were not part of Standby Platoon's and cleared snow during their working day aren't entitled to the ACA Allowance and PDFORRA aren't looking for payment for those troops.

The case PDFORRA is making is for troops who were part of Standby Platoons and/or HSE duties, both of which went on for a duration of 24 hours, with troops based in barracks for the night.

I'd have to check but I don't think anyones explained it like that previously.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69752497&postcount=12

jarecki1976 wrote: »

...Pdforra general secretary Gerry Rooney blamed new arrangements for the failure to pay the decency payment.

"They are on duty. Even if they are not deployed, they are spending long and antisocial hours away from their homes," he said, "There is anger about it; people have an expectation to spend some time with their families."....

If the case is won, then soldiers will be entitled to back pay for the hours spent on call in barracks....

mbiking123

I'd have to check but I don't think anyones explained it like that previously.

mod explaination is also my understanding of situation

annoyingbeast

when everyone else is getting paycuts? when people dont have jobs etc they want more money? for doing the job their supposed to do they get extra? the people who our society benefits least from? nurses who have do deal with the most stressfull situations and familys losing jobs getting paycuts and getting more work for less pay, and then the bull**** army who takes money off every taxpayer so they can run around a field and shoot targets and then go off to some foreign land ireland has nothing to do with (Lebanon) a 'war' we pay for so some corperations can get more money?

i understand as an independent nation we need an army, but could it not just be a reserves? interwined with the civil defence and the scouts or something? make it a more socialble thing people do in their spare time? (ie. not a career) interwine with survival courses, military education etc. make it part of transistion year or make it so everyone has to do a year of it? after the leaving? it would be alotcheaper for the country,

because lets face it, if the country does ever get invaded we would be using geurilla tactics, so surely we should train people in that? snipers, bomb making etc. and it would be the everyday person fighting, not just the army, so make it compulsary but at the same time, where possible make it enjoyable

Poccington

BostonB wrote: »

I'd have to check but I don't think anyones explained it like that previously.

PDFORRA did, it's up as a press release on their site.

http://pdforra.ie/news/?p=505

Poccington

annoyingbeast wrote: »

when everyone else is getting paycuts? when people dont have jobs etc they want more money? for doing the job their supposed to do they get extra? the people who our society benefits least from? nurses who have do deal with the most stressfull situations and familys losing jobs getting paycuts and getting more work for less pay, and then the bull**** army who takes money off every taxpayer so they can run around a field and shoot targets and then go off to some foreign land ireland has nothing to do with (Lebanon) a 'war' we pay for so some corperations can get more money?

I forgot members of the DF haven't recieved any losses in pay. I'm gonna have to get onto Soldiers Pay Section in that case, cause there's money going missing from my payslip and it's certainly not down do to any kind of paycuts.... Oh, wait.

poppyvalley

mbiking123 wrote: »

The troops clearing snow got paid, just normal pay no extras. Do you expect them to work for nothing.

Sorry of course they should'nt work for nothing. I thought they were looking for extra dosh for doing a great job. Thanks for clearing that up

mbiking123

when everyone else is getting paycuts? when people dont have jobs etc they want more money? for doing the job their supposed to do they get extra? the people who our society benefits least from? nurses who have do deal with the most stressfull situations and familys losing jobs getting paycuts and getting more work for less pay, and then the bull**** army who takes money off every taxpayer so they can run around a field and shoot targets and then go off to some foreign land ireland has nothing to do with (Lebanon) a 'war' we pay for so some corperations can get more money?

i understand as an independent nation we need an army, but could it not just be a reserves? interwined with the civil defence and the scouts or something? make it a more socialble thing people do in their spare time? (ie. not a career) interwine with survival courses, military education etc. make it part of transistion year or make it so everyone has to do a year of it? after the leaving? it would be alotcheaper for the country,

because lets face it, if the country does ever get invaded we would be using geurilla tactics, so surely we should train people in that? snipers, bomb making etc. and it would be the everyday person fighting, not just the army, so make it compulsary but at the same time, where possible make it enjoyable

Army also got pay cuts, this is an allowance for extra hours. DF dont get overtime.

When it comes to UN, how we complain about countries like Israel and what they do to Palestine and their people. What about all the refugees in Lebanon. How we love to complain and when it comes to doing something we once again complain

Problem with Reserves is that you have all the names on paper but when it comes to the crunch you cant get numbers, they are at work etc. Who would do bank escorts during normal bank hours, SAR, boarding of trawlers by Naval Sevice etc etc. I dont think you properly though out this issue

Country may be 'invaded' internally, also with commitments to a Euro army, if we got invaded we would get EU to help us again. We would also be expected to offer the same type of assistance to an other country if they got invaded

Delancey

Daphne Straight Upstart wrote: »

I'm pointing out the fact that as a PSNI moderator your representing the PSNI here on boards.ie .

Thanks for your post Daphne Straight Upstart - I see where you are coming from. Obviously I do not wish to drag the thread of topic but I do feel it important that I point out that I in no way act in any capacity as a representative of the P.S.N.I.
Like all mods I am unpaid , posting in my own time and on my own computer.
In the same way the Military Mods are not representing the Defence Forces

I just wanted to set the record straight on that one point and let it rest there .

Thanks

Bosco boy

delancey42 wrote: »

Thanks for your post Makikomi - I see where you are coming from. Obviously I do not wish to drag the thread of topic but I do feel it important that I point out that I in no way act in any capacity as a representative of the P.S.N.I.
Like all mods I am unpaid , posting in my own time and on my own computer.
In the same way the Military Mods are not representing the Defence Forces

I just wanted to set the record straight on that one point and let it rest there .

Thanks[/QUOTE

I think if you were a member of the above force you would have been more careful of what you were saying as its not unreasonable for someone to expect that as a mod of a PSNI recruitment forum would be a member of that force. Maybe your thinking of joining and thats sufficent!

mbiking123

The demand for additional payment is a perfect illustration of why the Irish Defence Forces are held in such low esteem by the public .

I query if soldiers should be used to clear snow and ice - they might get hit by snowballs and lodge huge compensation claims , the Recruiting Slogan for the army should be '' Join the Army and gouge the Taxpayer ''

In the US they certainly hold their armed service in very high esteem, with discounts for serving or ex-serving personnel in hotels etc.

With regard to irish army and low esteem I would imagine alot of this comes from history, Civil war etc. I am sure the PSNI know these problems only too well. Republicians for example dont like the Irish army as they do weapon searches, aid the Gardai, bomb disposal etc etc

The Irish army got compensation for hearing loss, the same happened the British Army and they advised the Irish Government of the potential problem. The Irish authorities decided to save money and not provide hearing protection. Turned out a costly decision. It is worth noting that the memebers of the Gardai also successfulley got compensation and on average got considerably more than memeber of the defence forces. Despite the fact the Gardai use small arms only and army have artillery etc, that would indicated the army would have more hearing loss.

Members of the British army also successfully get compensation for post traumatic stress etc etc. The courts in Ireland however pay out more compensation than in britain for injuries etc etc for car accidents etc etc.

A member of the Irish army are as entitled to claim if they are in a car accident as anybody else. However I dont see what injuries you would get from a snowball. If they slipped in snow and say broke a hip then curcumstances would be different. Then again combat boots have non slip soles and broken hips affects older people

I am sure the republicans have some nice slogans for the PSNI

BostonB

Poccington wrote: »

No, it's for troops who were part of Standby Platoon's which were based in barracks on a 24 hour basis. Standby Platoon troops were the ones used to perform ACA duties such as snow clearing, with additional troops(Mostly drivers) detailed for HSE duties.

Any troops who were not part of Standby Platoon's and cleared snow during their working day aren't entitled to the ACA Allowance and PDFORRA aren't looking for payment for those troops.

The case PDFORRA is making is for troops who were part of Standby Platoons and/or HSE duties, both of which went on for a duration of 24 hours, with troops based in barracks for the night.

Poccington wrote: »

PDFORRA did, it's up as a press release on their site.

http://pdforra.ie/news/?p=50

Members should note that disagreement has arisen with the Department over payments for personnel on stand-by in barracks

For me your use of "Standby Platoon" is entirely different to their use of "personnel on stand-by". I assume thats because I don't "get" the lingo. Thanks for trying to explain but I can't follow it anymore tbh. So many have posted so much contradictory info about this. We've gone from its an extra payment for doing the work, to a payment for not doing the work, but being on standby, to they didn't get anything, it was unpaid work. They volunteered, to they were ordered. Being in standby platoon but not on standby. Working 24hrs, to being on standby for 24hrs. or is that in a standby platoon for 24hrs. I give up trying to work it out.

someday2010

The great thing about the army is that they cant strike

BostonB

someday2010 wrote: »

The great thing about the army is that they cant strike

Not much use in a war that....

mbiking123

For me your use of "Standby Platoon" is entirely different to their use of "personnel on stand-by". I assume thats because I don't "get" the lingo. Thanks for trying to explain but I can't follow it anymore tbh. So many have posted so much contradictory info about this. We've gone from its an extra payment for doing the work, to a payment for not doing the work, but being on standby, to they didn't get anything, it was unpaid work. They volunteered, to they were ordered. Being in standby platoon but not on standby. Working 24hrs, to being on standby for 24hrs. or is that in a standby platoon for 24hrs. I give up trying to work it out.

Ok, take a war for instance. You have guys firing a big artillery gun. After some time they will tire and will need a rest. You have guys on standby to take over. They are not directly fighting but at the same time their ready to get involved. They are at 'the coal face'.

These guys were there at the coal face, in uniform, keys in the hand ready to be sent off

Not at home watchin tv, in bed asleep etc. However in the DF even at home you can be called out. Some posts here state when army go home thats it till the next day

Does that help

senordingdong

mbiking123 wrote: »

In the US they certainly hold their armed service in very high esteem, with discounts for serving or ex-serving personnel in hotels etc.

That's just good marketing, not esteem of their armed forces.

The reason for low esteem in PDF, I think, is down to the fact that the general public don't see what their taxes are being spent on.*
People obviously associate armies with war, but don't have any coverage of any ongoing wars involving the PDF.

*Except for the occasional securicor escort....but that raises it's own concerns.

Lumen

I buy fire and flood insurance. My house has never once burned down or flooded. These things happen to other people. Therefore, I should cancel my insurance and spend the money on beer.

Fire = war/insurrection. Armed forces = insurance. Beer = govt spending black hole.

Dempo1

Bosco boy wrote: »

To say they are held in low esteem is very unfair, many have lost their lives on peacekeeping duties and they are recognized as probally the best internationally in this role. Maybe their rostering should be looked at so that the need to have people on call wouldn't be necessary, maybe the Garda reserve could help clear the snow as well!

Jesus Christ is this argument still continuing! WTF has pointless peace keeping duties got to do with Vultures tucked up and cosy in their expensively maintained barracks got to do with the substance of this thread. Whilst i would never wish to demean the sacrifices made by those brave soldiers on peace keeping missions, they could hardly be compared to the shower than seeking additional payments for clearing a little snow, mother of god its an insult to contrast both.

The issue is this disgraceful and greedy attempt to get additional payments for doing their duty. As for the Garda reserve, Do you propose they use their pencil and pads to clear the snow! cop on. There is a fundamental reason the PDF were required, apart from available man power, its their equipment which i along with other tax payers purchase and maintain!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Dempo1 wrote: »

Whilst i would never wish to demean the sacrifices made by those brave soldiers on peace keeping missions, they could hardly be compared to the shower than seeking additional payments for clearing a little snow, mother of god its an insult to contrast both.

Many in that "shower" out clearing snow have served in East Timor, The Balkans, Eritrea, Liberial, Chad & Lebanon.. And many will be volunteering to serve in the new Lebanon mission starting this year..

Spanish and Irish soldiers at the scene of an IED in Lebanon, June 2007.

Pic one

Pic two

In pic one you can clearly see the DPM patern unique to the Irish Defence Forces. And in pic two you can clearly see the tri-colour shoulder flash of an Irish soldier carry one of the wounded or dead, God rest them.

Other's have posted YT clips of our troops in Chad, Liberial and a riot in Kosovo, which you appear to have ignored.

These are the same soldiers out clearing snow and providing other essential services during the freeze.

Just for your ignorance.

Neyite

I would like to see the County Councils pay the Defence forces for doing the job that they refused to do. Dont pay the CC staff for the days they did not do their job, and give it to the defence forces staff that got stuck in.

Granted, its still coming out of the tax payers pockets, but at least its paying the people who worked, not the ones who didnt.

I would put serious money on guessing that the County Council staff still got paid for sitting at home due to 'health & safety' while the army were busting their ass.

senordingdong

Neyite wrote: »

I would like to see the County Councils pay the Defence forces for doing the job that they refused to do. Dont pay the CC staff for the days they did not do their job, and give it to the defence forces staff that got stuck in.

Granted, its still coming out of the tax payers pockets, but at least its paying the people who worked, not the ones who didnt.

I would put serious money on guessing that the County Council staff still got paid for sitting at home due to 'health & safety' while the army were busting their ass.

+1

Except, while I do find all the CC workers I come across to be lazy, I will bet that they were told not to go to work by their superiors, as an insurance issue could arise.

I would like to see the legislation changed so that silly insurance practises like this are changed.

Manic Moran

That's just good marketing, not esteem of their armed forces.

No, it's esteem. It takes more than good marketing for total strangers to walk up to you on the street and ask to shake your hand and buy you drinks. The US population acknowledges that the military have volunteered to go away from their families for a year at a time and get shot at on their behalf. About the only other job that has nearly the same public perception in the US is that of firemen.

WRT National Guard usage in domestic matters, I must say I got quite well paid to sit around a barracks for a week waiting for a call-out during the wildfires of 2008. However, there is no equivalent to the ATA allowance.

NTM

senordingdong

Manic Moran wrote: »

No, it's esteem. It takes more than good marketing for total strangers to walk up to you on the street and ask to shake your hand and buy you drinks.

Hang on, I wasn't talking about respect from the general public, I was talking about discounts on goods and services.
And it still seems like a clever marketing ploy.

Dempo1

Poccington wrote: »

They must be keeping their skills hidden in work so, cause I'm convinced that they're trying to poison me any time I've to eat Army food!

LOL,:D admitidily i came across some chancers at the Curragh! i suspect they were eating the entire rations by the cut of them!

suicide_circus

Just let me see if I have this right,
Country and citizens suffering hardship due to weather.
Soldiers in barracks on standby drawing wage paid for by aforementioned citizens.
Soldiers ordered to serve country by clearing snow and helping people - while being paid of course.
Thousands of private citizens volunteering and helping out, unpaid, because its the right thing to do.
Soldiers feel they should be paid extra, on top of their wages for helping their countrymen.
Have I got this right?
Absolutely sickening.

tallaght01

annoyingbeast wrote: »

i understand as an independent nation we need an army, but could it not just be a reserves? interwined with the civil defence and the scouts or something?

:pac:
:pac: