Army looking for extra payment

davetherave

thebaz wrote: »

benwavner wrote:

Do you actually know anything about the deafness claims or is it regurgitated drivel?

as someone above has said you are better paid than your Scottish counterparts , who actually risk getting involved in a war - when I considered joining the US army I did consider the risk of death , not deafness

What war has the Irish army been fully deployed in ?

it is a relatively risk free job here , well paid and safe

Are you going to answer the question or are you just going to skip around it?

thebaz

davetherave wrote: »

Are you going to answer the question or are you just going to skip around it?

if i joined an armed forced , i would expect personal injury to be part of my job .

joinning the Irish army, not getting involved in a war , and then claiming compensation for a small amount of hearing loss (in some cases) - just sums up the mentality of greed in this state .

We have few soldiers suffering the serious injuries as in in the U.S. Force

Riddle101

as someone above has said you are better paid than your Scottish counterparts , who actually risk getting involved in a war - when I considered joining the US army I did consider the risk of death , not deafness

What war has the Irish army been fully deployed in ?

it is a relatively risk free job here , well paid and safe

thebaz wrote: »

if i joined an armed forced , i would expect personal injury to be part of my job .

joinning the Irish army, not getting involved in a war , and then claiming compensation for a small amount of hearing loss (in some cases) - just sums up the mentality of greed in this state .

We have few soldiers suffering the serious injuries as in in the U.S. Force

Just because the PDF dosen't get involved in wars(Although they do have personel in Afghanistan), dosen't mean they have a risk free job. Maybe you should check this out. It might give you more insight into just what the PDF do.
http://www.military.ie/overseas/ops/asia/isaf/index.htm

They've been in plenty of conflict zones worldwide so I doubt it's not as safe or risk free as you put it.

SEPT 23 1989

This Republic has failed

Praetorian Saighdiuir

thebaz wrote: »

as someone above has said you are better paid than your Scottish counterparts , who actually risk getting involved in a war - when I considered joining the US army I did consider the risk of death , not deafness

What war has the Irish army been fully deployed in ?

it is a relatively risk free job here , well paid and safe

Ok where to start,


Firstly, we are a "DEFENCE FORCE" in a small island with a nominal tax payer. I will keep this short because I doubt you have any interest or rebuttle of any relevance.

We are not a "war going" nation....and if we were, your taxes (if you pay them) would be much higher!

I know nothing about the Scottish army, their pay or their operational commitments.

A minority of the deafness claims i presume were chancers. There were however a huge amount of legitimate claims. I could go more indepth about this but there is no point.

We have not been fully deployed in a conventional war. However, we have been numerously deployed to many many other conflict zones worldwide.

Its not a risk free career and it is only a relatively well paid job in recent years, many soldiers are on FIS.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

thebaz wrote: »

if i joined an armed forced , i would expect personal injury to be part of my job .

joinning the Irish army, not getting involved in a war , and then claiming compensation for a small amount of hearing loss (in some cases) - just sums up the mentality of greed in this state .

We have few soldiers suffering the serious injuries as in in the U.S. Force

You are quickly losing all credibility with me.

Your posts are very simplistic and it is very evident that you do not know what you are talking about.

Dempo1

benwavner wrote: »

How extensive is your experience in the Curragh and in what context?

Yes being away from the family is accepted and it is not something you think about when you are in your teens.

Yes we get paid for our overseas tours, what is your point? Do you think we should go for free?

How is it outrageous to request an allowance for working outside normal hours? Are you trying to tell me that if you worked outside normal hours that you would not get overtime?

Mother of god, working outside normal hours? WTF does this mean, one would have anticipated the Army is much the same as any emergency agency such as the Gardai, Hospitals, Coast Gard etc, what exactly do you mean by Normal Hours, this is a chosen profession and unlike other agencies yours is not required inordinately to do a little extra Graft. I certainly do not recall seeing any army personal clearing snow in the dark but i accept Hospital personnel would have required assistance after dark.

My experience of the Curragh is in a civilian contractual role and i saw enough to determine it is nothing short of a Holiday camp with private golf course to boot. Indeed i actually met privates in catering fields who worked three days a week and had not in fact put on an army issue uniform for over a decade. I also recall listening to whining about the new government pay Levy's and enduring general poor mouth syndrome, incidental a little exercises would not have gone a miss.

Over sea's tours should certainly be rewarded, i was not suggesting it be done or free but it would appear no one in the army wishes to advertise the fact many thousands (tax free) are paid to personnel doing these tours with renumeration rising with rank, these payments on top of salaries.

steddyeddy

ah in fairness lads they work very hard with prison escorts and gaurding prisons border patrols ect. cleaning snow is the councils job and the army stepped in and were happy to do it. I cant beleive some people think that being in the army is easy.

Ruen

Dempo1 wrote: »

Mother of god, working outside normal hours? WTF does this mean, one would have anticipated the Army is much the same as any emergency agency such as the Gardai, Hospitals, Coast Gard etc, what exactly do you mean by Normal Hours, this is a chosen profession and unlike other agencies yours is not required inordinately to do a little extra Graft. I certainly do not recall seeing any army personal clearing snow in the dark but i accept Hospital personnel would have required assistance after dark.

Yes it is much the same and all those professions you mentioned get well paid for duties outside their normal hours.
Normal hours would be the hours you were required to be on duty whether there was some sort of emergency or not.

Dempo1 wrote: »

Indeed i actually met privates in catering fields who worked three days a week and had not in fact put on an army issue uniform for over a decade.

You'll find that soldiers in the Kitchen Corps in any army have to wear the same type of clothing that catering staff wear in civilian jobs in the interest of food hygiene practices.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Dempo1 wrote: »

Mother of god, working outside normal hours? WTF does this mean, one would have anticipated the Army is much the same as any emergency agency such as the Gardai, Hospitals, Coast Gard etc, what exactly do you mean by Normal Hours, this is a chosen profession and unlike other agencies yours is not required inordinately to do a little extra Graft. I certainly do not recall seeing any army personal clearing snow in the dark but i accept Hospital personnel would have required assistance after dark.

My experience of the Curragh is in a civilian contractual role and i saw enough to determine it is nothing short of a Holiday camp with private golf course to boot. Indeed i actually met privates in catering fields who worked three days a week and had not in fact put on an army issue uniform for over a decade. I also recall listening to whining about the new government pay Levy's and enduring general poor mouth syndrome, incidental a little exercises would not have gone a miss.

Over sea's tours should certainly be rewarded, i was not suggesting it be done or free but it would appear no one in the army wishes to advertise the fact many thousands (tax free) are paid to personnel doing these tours with renumeration rising with rank, these payments on top of salaries.

OK,

The troops on standby were doing ATCP (Aid to the civil power). There is an allowance that comes under that umbrella. Are you now trying to tell me that Gardai etc do not get an overtime allowance.

I know nothing of a private golf course. I assume the soldiers you met were cooks/chefs maybe of an older generation? Everyone is entitled to complain about pay cuts nomatter what the occupation. Soldiers do complain a lot, its habit, we all talk sh1te, just like everyone else.

I dont think the overseas pay is tax free, you might want to check your source on that.

Its very easy to look at faults from the outside in. But you still really only have limited experience in the environment.

Manic Moran

Although the ATTCP allowance strikes me as being somewhat bizarre, it seems to me that if such allowance exists in law, and the soldiers were ordered to the barracks in support of a potential ATTCP role, then the ATTCP allowance should be paid.

As for why the allowance exists in the first place, however, that's another question entirely, but obviously the legislature seems to approve.

when I considered joining the US army I did consider the risk of death , not deafness

When I did join the US Army, death actually wasn't a concern as much as my hearing. As a tanker, my hearing is pretty much forfeit, those turbine engines have a reputation for piercing through the hearing protection in both peacetime and wartime.

NTM

CDfm

What duties do our army actually have.

I am not saying we do not need an army as in my lifetime with NI we have needed an army because of paramilitary activity which has not really gone away

The Brinks deliveries must be a hangover from this and the states capability to protect itself when nesscessary

Overseas peacekeeping is part of the international obligations that we have.

Prison duties etc and to provide back up to the gardai in serious situations.

I have a mixed view on this as we seem to have a very bad view of our army as a result of the army deafness claims and that is our public perception.

That said what do soldiers do all day and what are their peacetime activities ? I have no idea. Are they superfit mini rambo's or are they just couch potatoe's that do nothing.

If they are "on call" effectivelly does that mean they are waiting in the barracks and unable to spend time with their families.

So how should they be deployed for "Civil Purposes" - I am sure a defense forces mechanic or engineer would feel put down cleaning up the ice around Rathmines -they might say to you why not get the illegal immigrants to do it - & I would not blame them.

Dealing with a flood and rescuing people would be different -emergency -danger and needs specialist skills.

So I can see the need for an army -but I do not know what it does or what its duties are.

Perkina3

Firstly Dempo and any other ppl who are bitching bout the DF seeking a small allowance for the work that they did over Xmas, I would like to say that yes there are a small minority of chancers within the DF but there are always going to some of them where ever you...

I just want to point out a couple things that you have no clue about.

1) The overseas allowance is not paid by the Irish government. Instead, it is provided by the sponsoring organisation whether it be EUFOR or the UN and does not come from the government.

2) The DF have been deployed to a number of conflict zones including Chad and East timor in the past decade. Both of which were in the peace enforcing role initially.

3) PDFORA represents the Pte and NCO's of the irish army, the majority of which are not paid all that well. Of course the remuneration is based on a scale but I would presume you are also remunerated based on your level of skill. The starting pay for an army private is c.22/23k annually, which is not what I would call well paid. These ppl are then asked to go out and clear ice and snow from the cities streets..... some of these had christmas leave cancelled so that they could be put on standby for 12/24 hours at a time.....

I can only imagine the kind of whinning you guys would have been doing if it had been your leave which had been cancelled and you were asked to work on bank holidays for nothing more....

So please for the sake of everybody else in this forum get off your high horses and stop being so pretentious.

An no I am not a member of the DF and if I hear one more person say that this country does not need an army I am going to......

Manic Moran

Perkina3 wrote: »

An no I am not a member of the DF and if I hear one more person say that this country does not need an army I am going to......

Ahem.

The country doesn't need an army.

*runs for cover*

NTM

Gripen

benwavner wrote: »

Yes being away from the family is accepted and it is not something you think about when you are in your teens.

Yes we get paid for our overseas tours, what is your point? Do you think we should go for free?

How is it outrageous to request an allowance for working outside normal hours? Are you trying to tell me that if you worked outside normal hours that you would not get overtime?

I think the real issue to be concerned about here is that the ethos of serving in the military doesn't carry on far beyond recruit training, it seems to get diluted over the years or maybe it was never inculcated properly in the first place.

A little refresher on the Defence Force values and military discipline might put a new perspective on whether the term normal working hours is even compatible with a military lifestyle.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

CDfm wrote: »

What duties do our army actually have.

I am not saying we do not need an army as in my lifetime with NI we have needed an army because of paramilitary activity which has not really gone away

The Brinks deliveries must be a hangover from this and the states capability to protect itself when nesscessary

Overseas peacekeeping is part of the international obligations that we have.

Prison duties etc and to provide back up to the gardai in serious situations.

I have a mixed view on this as we seem to have a very bad view of our army as a result of the army deafness claims and that is our public perception.

That said what do soldiers do all day and what are their peacetime activities ? I have no idea. Are they superfit mini rambo's or are they just couch potatoe's that do nothing.

If they are "on call" effectivelly does that mean they are waiting in the barracks and unable to spend time with their families.

So how should they be deployed for "Civil Purposes" - I am sure a defense forces mechanic or engineer would feel put down cleaning up the ice around Rathmines -they might say to you why not get the illegal immigrants to do it - & I would not blame them.

Dealing with a flood and rescuing people would be different -emergency -danger and needs specialist skills.

So I can see the need for an army -but I do not know what it does or what its duties are.

The DF perform many seen and unseen duties on land, sea and air. The problem is that if you are not a member of the DF then these duties seem trivial and unimportant and obviously for operational security I cannot go into details. I can assure you that they are not.

The duties range from a soldier standing at a gate of a military/government installation to assisting the civil authorities to defending the state against armed aggression. I agree that however unlikely it is that we will ever be invaded, we still have to train for the event.

Our soldiers are highly trained in various weapons and tactics. If we are not on duty or resting off, we are training.

Most Goverment organisations have some sort of bad name for one reason or another. The problem is that the DF is fairly secretive, no one knows what we do behind the barracks gate. People think we are sitting on our arse playing cards and sh1te talking all the time. This is not the case.

The Brinks escorts are warranted in my opinion. The fact that none have ever been "hit up" is a good sign. Unfortunately other non guarded cash delivery trucks have had a lot of hassle in the recent years. Raiders would be wise to think thrice before coming up against us.

Mrmoe

There seems to be two arguments here, one about the value of having the DF and the other is payment for civil assistence. I am generally supportive of the DF and they do a good job but nobody has explained sufficiently why they deserve this extra bonus for doing work that may be required of them? Being away from home and you family is not limited to the DF. There are many professions where people have to spend extended periods away from home. We are not even talking about foreign deployemnt buyt merely being on call in their bases. It makes no sense to me.

Manic Moran

A little refresher on the Defence Force values and military discipline might put a new perspective on whether the term normal working hours is even compatible with a military lifestyle.

Yes, and no.

I think most soldiers accept the concept that if required, their weekends, nights, and holidays are forfeit. I spent last Christmas several thousand miles from home, and outside of the good-natured grumbling about missing home, nobody really complained. We knew it was part of what we signed on for. Not as if we saw people clamouring for a week's leave to be flown to Europe or the US to spend their holidays. I have NCOs who get three weekends off a month for their entire careers, it's just part of the job.

However, the counter to that is that soldiers jealously guard the weekends, nights and holidays which are not required by the job. If I spent last Christmas eating dry turkey in an Afghan chow hall, there'd better be a pretty damned good reason that I should not be having home-cooked turkey this year. Sitting around the barracks because someone (who probably spent the day at home making the odd call on a mobile) couldn't figure out whether or not they had a job that needed doing is not going to be considered by most soldiers to be a 'pretty damned good reason' and is going to cause griping. Understandably so, I would submit.

I doubt any of the other government services (Gardai, fire etc) would think much different.

NTM

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Gripen wrote: »

I think the real issue to be concerned about here is that the ethos of serving in the military doesn't carry on far beyond recruit training, it seems to get diluted over the years or maybe it was never inculcated properly in the first place.

A little refresher on the Defence Force values and military discipline might put a new perspective on whether the term normal working hours is even compatible with a military lifestyle.

I have served over 11 years so far in the PDF. This is the only career I ever wanted to do. I previously served 2 years in the FCA when I was still in school.

What are your experiences of Recruit Training, military ethos or military discipline?

I agree that we do have a number of bad apples, especially in the last 5 years when the recruiting drive came in. I have been involved with training many many troops, most of which I am proud to say I have trained. It is very satisfiying to see a raw recruit who doesnt know his butt from his muzzle turn into a well trained adaptable soldier, and even more so when you serve side by side overseas with that soldier. Believe me discipline is well embedded in a soldiers brain.

If you have not served, dont assume you know anything about military discipline.

We do what we are required to do, wether we like it or not. It doesnt matter what it is. Ignorance is bliss.

Perkina3

A little refresher on the Defence Force values and military discipline might put a new perspective on whether the term normal working hours is even compatible with a military lifestyle.


Jus wanted to add to the point manic made on the above... Jus because you are in the army it doesn't mean that a fair amount of the time they will not work normal hours in the barracks. Jus because they are in the military does not mean that they have to work stupid hours ALL their careers....I don't know what planet you are living on if you think the army are away from home the whole time.

Dr.Sanchez

flutered wrote: »

in scotland the army, navy and air force helped out, btw they are on less pay than our forces.

Yes, they are on less pay but their rent, tax, bills, etc is all subsidised.

I must say though, my friends and family members in the Army don't realise how easy they have it when compared to others.

Irish Army 3 Star Private - €24,740. Plus an overseas tour for six months can be about €15,000 - €20,000 if I'm right?

British Army Private - €19,963 with subsidised food, travel and accommodation.
For overseas tours they get €17 per day.

kumate_champ07

whats the worst that could happen, an army of 12 year olds might ambush them with a barrage of snowballs? its not exactly dangerous high risk work. the russian army deals with much colder weather during their winters

CDfm

benwavner wrote: »

The DF perform many seen and unseen duties on land, sea and air ...these duties seem trivial and unimportant and obviously for operational security .........I can assure you that they are not.

The duties range from a soldier standing at a gate of a military/government installation to assisting the civil authorities to defending the state against armed aggression. I agree that however unlikely it is that we will ever be invaded, we still have to train for the event.

Our soldiers are highly trained in various weapons and tactics. If we are not on duty or resting off, we are training.


The Brinks escorts are warranted in my opinion. .

It took me a while to think of some duties until I remembered the towers at Portlaiose Prison and then thought about the Brinks deliveries.

We have lived thru times when there was a military threat to the state and we need to maintain a military force for our international obligations.

It is easy to have a go - and I think the Army is one of those sectors - like the fishery protection that we dont really see the good of but has deterent/emergency qualities.

I still would like a few Rambo's

PJMCKE

First of all i would like to apologies as i normally would not get caught up in griping and this is all it is.

But,
after going through 21 months of 2 rounds of redundancy and loosing 25 percent of my peers and going through the procedure of forced redundacy i am actually repulsed. I am trying to place the replies of the vested interests in this forum of the civil defence and army replies. With such answers originating with "we accept" , firstly reeks of unions that i do not have the luxury of and secondly some of the answers would have almost guaranteed my redundancy from employment. To put it frankly if my employer asked my to shovel crap for 6 weeks as part of my professional job of which i have almost 20 years experience and college educated, i would say yes as long as my job is safe.

You really dont know how far you will go when it is all treathened to be taken away from you.

ejmaztec

Gummy Panda wrote: »

*looks at intimidating picture of Makikomi*

Yes, they deserve every cent...

I disagree, only Makikomi and any other defence force boardsies deserve the extra. The rest of them can fuck off.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

whats the worst that could happen, an army of 12 year olds might ambush them with a barrage of snowballs? its not exactly dangerous high risk work. the russian army deals with much colder weather during their winters

I agree shovelling snow is not high risk work. The Russian Army has the manpower, equipment and experience to deal with their weather. Your comparison is irrelevant.

The point is that it was the councils job to get rid of the snow and ice and some didnt do it. In fact, when certain members of the DF liased with a local council, the council refused to go out because of health & safety. So we asked for their salt and we were refused under the premise that "oh no we cant give you the salt, its our job to spread it...but we are not doing it". So the paths were cleared but it was futile because they were not salted.

We were called out under an ATCP role which incurrs an allowance. simples.

TheDoc

Perkina3 wrote: »

Firstly Dempo and any other ppl who are bitching bout the DF seeking a small allowance for the work that they did over Xmas, I would like to say that yes there are a small minority of chancers within the DF but there are always going to some of them where ever you...

I just want to point out a couple things that you have no clue about.

1) The overseas allowance is not paid by the Irish government. Instead, it is provided by the sponsoring organisation whether it be EUFOR or the UN and does not come from the government.

2) The DF have been deployed to a number of conflict zones including Chad and East timor in the past decade. Both of which were in the peace enforcing role initially.

3) PDFORA represents the Pte and NCO's of the irish army, the majority of which are not paid all that well. Of course the remuneration is based on a scale but I would presume you are also remunerated based on your level of skill. The starting pay for an army private is c.22/23k annually, which is not what I would call well paid. These ppl are then asked to go out and clear ice and snow from the cities streets..... some of these had christmas leave cancelled so that they could be put on standby for 12/24 hours at a time.....

I can only imagine the kind of whinning you guys would have been doing if it had been your leave which had been cancelled and you were asked to work on bank holidays for nothing more....

So please for the sake of everybody else in this forum get off your high horses and stop being so pretentious.

An no I am not a member of the DF and if I hear one more person say that this country does not need an army I am going to......

Very well put.


I was working all over christmas for a call centre and I earn more then our armies lower ranks.

Its a seriously sad day when people have a pop at the army.

And its pretty retarded commenting on " what do they do sure we arnt at war"

They train, and train and train and train and train.

I'm not part of the armed forces, but I'm proud to know that we have a globally recognised force of highly skilled infantry, and globally regarded as potentially the most skillful special forces within our Armed ranks.

The army were about Swords during the worst of the snow, and I watched two lads in a Land rover pull up at a roundabout and push 6 cars that were stuck. They pretty much were out helping stupid people driving in stupid conditions.

A few minutes later me and my father watched as they carried an elderly couple up a rather large set of stairs to their door, to then come back and bring up all their shopping. As we sat in traffic the lady pulled out her purse to try give the soldier some money and he immediatly refused and they returned to the jeep and went off.

They were also stopping off around my estate shoveling snow out of drives of elderly and disabled residents.

And they get 23k anually? I get more for listening to people having a moan that their xbox isnt working....

Its the one honest profession there is in the world and our country year after year produces top quality infantry that although maybe arn't fighting a war for you, provide critical services day to day, and run rigourous training in the unlikely event that god forbid something ever does happen.

Shocking that people would be telling them to " get a grip".

I cant believe how much they earn

23k to serve your country and die for it if needs be, thats absolutely shocking, there are American NCO's that earn 50k for sitting at desks : /

Praetorian Saighdiuir

PJMCKE wrote: »

First of all i would like to apologies as i normally would not get caught up in griping and this is all it is.

But,
after going through 21 months of 2 rounds of redundancy and loosing 25 percent of my peers and going through the procedure of forced redundacy i am actually repulsed. I am trying to place the replies of the vested interests in this forum of the civil defence and army replies. With such answers originating with "we accept" , firstly reeks of unions that i do not have the luxury of and secondly some of the answers would have almost guaranteed my redundancy from employment. To put it frankly if my employer asked my to shovel crap for 6 weeks as part of my professional job of which i have almost 20 years experience and college educated, i would say yes as long as my job is safe.

You really dont know how far you will go when it is all treathened to be taken away from you.

I do not subscribe to our PDFORRA Union. But to be simple and blatent here:

We were performing duties as part of ATCP, which entitles the troops to an allowance. Its as simple as that.

Hypothetically if your boss told you that you had to work overtime, and that overtime is usually paid, say you did the overtime and he said that you were not getting paid, what would you do?

Everyone is trying to get an extra few quid nowadays, it doesnt matter what profession we all have, soldiers are no different. No one is expected to do a job for free.

davetherave

benwavner wrote: »

I agree shovelling snow is not high risk work. The Russian Army has the manpower, equipment and experience to deal with their weather. Your comparison is irrelevant.

The point is that it was the councils job to get rid of the snow and ice and some didnt do it. In fact, when certain members of the DF liased with a local council, the council refused to go out because of health & safety. So we asked for their salt and we were refused under the premise that "oh no we cant give you the salt, its our job to spread it...but we are not doing it". So the paths were cleared but it was futile because they were not salted.

We were called out under an ATCP role which incurrs an allowance. simples.

The terms nail, head and hammer spring to mind.
Unfortunately there appears to be a belief in this country that the DF do nothing more than sit in a barracks and waste good taxpayer money.

Celly Smunt

TheDoc wrote: »

Very well put.


I was working all over christmas for a call centre and I earn more then our armies lower ranks.

Its a seriously sad day when people have a pop at the army.

And its pretty retarded commenting on " what do they do sure we arnt at war"

They train, and train and train and train and train.

I'm not part of the armed forces, but I'm proud to know that we have a globally recognised force of highly skilled infantry, and globally regarded as potentially the most skillful special forces within our Armed ranks.

The army were about Swords during the worst of the snow, and I watched two lads in a Land rover pull up at a roundabout and push 6 cars that were stuck. They pretty much were out helping stupid people driving in stupid conditions.

A few minutes later me and my father watched as they carried an elderly couple up a rather large set of stairs to their door, to then come back and bring up all their shopping. As we sat in traffic the lady pulled out her purse to try give the soldier some money and he immediatly refused and they returned to the jeep and went off.

They were also stopping off around my estate shoveling snow out of drives of elderly and disabled residents.

And they get 23k anually? I get more for listening to people having a moan that their xbox isnt working....

Its the one honest profession there is in the world and our country year after year produces top quality infantry that although maybe arn't fighting a war for you, provide critical services day to day, and run rigourous training in the unlikely event that god forbid something ever does happen.

Shocking that people would be telling them to " get a grip".

I cant believe how much they earn

23k to serve your country and die for it if needs be, thats absolutely shocking, there are American NCO's that earn 50k for sitting at desks : /

you're forgetting that you don't stay on 23,000 per annum for the rest of your career,your pay goes up as your rank goes up,the harder you work the better paid you get,you end up with a great pension and retire early enough to start in a civilian job.

In the royal navy we get a free education including university,mortgage relief,state pension,free travel,subsidised accommodation for anything whether its for holidays or rent,the food is £1 a day in the barracks and there's no tax on the bar,the money you earn is pretty much pocket money and £16,000 pound for pocket money isn't too bad for starting off,within 4 years you could be on 28,000 and nearly retire on up to 100,000,the armed services in Britain aren't hard of cash and i'm sure that goes for the irish defence force too,there are far more benefits in the armed forces than civilian careers so the wage also goes a lot further than in civilian jobs.