WikiLeaks & Sinn Fein

OhNoYouDidn't

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

How big are the reserves of oil in afghanistan hmm?

LINK!?!

Either back it up or retract it.

dlofnep

Iwasfrozen - You're responding to the lyrics of a song

Lonesome Boatman

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes.

No it isn't.


Not yet. And what makes you think even when catholics are a majority they will vote for a united Ireland?


Maybe their nationalist neighbours should just grow up and stop being antagonised about a war they lost many hundreds of years ago?

Who is talking about the battle of the Boyne? Are you that ignorant you are dressing that up as a nationalist v loyalist war? If so that is one of the most ignorant things ive read in this thread and that takes some doing. The only other explanation other than ignorance is trolling.

Yes loyalists make up a 1/5th of the population on this sweet emerald isle.

I was engaging in a bit of banter with Keith you humourless pedant.

John Lennon lyrics and your responding to them as if its a serious post. :pac::pac::pac: :pac::pac::pac:

Iwasfrozen

dlofnep wrote: »

Iwasfrozen - You're responding to the lyrics of a song

I know...

Iwasfrozen

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

Who is talking about the battle of the Boyne? Are you that ignorant you are dressing that up as a nationalist v loyalist war? If so that is one of the most ignorant things ive read in this thread and that takes some doing. The only other explanation other than ignorance is trolling.

Yes loyalists make up a 1/5th of the population on this sweet emerald isle.

I was engaging in a bit of banter with Keith you humourless pedant.

John Lennon lyrics and your responding to them as if its a serious post. :pac::pac::pac: :pac::pac::pac:

It's not the song that got on my goat it's your attitude to people who don't agree with you. Perhaps instead of making fun of people you could better serve your time trying to understand their position.

Lonesome Boatman

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's not the song that got on my goat it's your attitude to people who don't agree with you. Perhaps instead of making fun of people you could better serve your time trying to understand their position.

You have a great understanding of nationalists in the North if you think they should just 'grow up'.

In the face of sectarian marches being forced through their areas and being met with UVF and UDA slogans and banners.

Great understanding, wish i was as understanding as you.

Celebrating a 300 year old war and nationalists are the ones who should 'move on' and 'grow up'. lol

dlofnep

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Maybe their nationalist neighbours should just grow up and stop being antagonised about a war they lost many hundreds of years ago?

Yes - Maybe those nationalists should just grow up, and assimilate into British society - and forget about having a modicum of a say in their own affairs.

I don't think the levels of maturity is an issue when 1000's of people march down your street, celebrating the fact that you are reluctantly under their control. It's a valid gripe.

To quote a wise old man.

Perhaps instead of making fun of people you could better serve your time trying to understand their position.

You might take heed from your own advice. Just an observation.

Iwasfrozen

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

You have a great understanding of nationalists in the North if you think they should just 'grow up'.

In the face of sectarian marches being forced through their areas and being met with UVF and UDA slogans and banners.

Great understanding, wish i was as understanding as you.

Celebrating a 300 year old war and nationalists are the ones who should 'move on' and 'grow up'. lol

Perhaps the word grow up was a little harsh. But if there is ever to be a united Ireland nationalists have to accept unionists traditions, including marching, or risk alienating them. And antagonistic attitudes like the one you've shown to Keith and Junder are not going to help.

Lonesome Boatman

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Perhaps the word grow up was a little harsh. But if there is ever to be a united Ireland nationalists have to accept unionists traditions, including marching, or risk alienating them. And antagonistic attitudes like the one you've shown to Keith and Junder are not going to help.

I don't care if they march as long as they stay out of areas where they aren't welcome.

Don't you feel alienated by Junders views of southern society?

How about his outrageous comments about death camps?

Respect works both ways.

Iwasfrozen

dlofnep wrote: »

Yes - Maybe those nationalists should just grow up, and assimilate into British society - and forget about having a modicum of a say in their own affairs.

They have a say in their own affairs. They are entitled to elect members to the House of Parliment, though the largest nationalist party waives that right. And there is a mechanism in place for the unification of Ireland in the form of the gfa if the majority in the north want it.

dlofnep wrote: »

I don't think the levels of maturity is an issue when 1000's of people march down your street, celebrating the fact that you are reluctantly under their control. It's a valid gripe.

So do what? There are only two options, 1) Ban them from marching or 2) Re-direct their route. The former won't work because it infringes on their right to celebrate their culture and the latter is what is currently being discussed.

dlofnep wrote: »

You might take heed from your own advice. Just an observation.

I do try and understand the nationalist position, their country was split in two some where caught on the wrong side. They were rightly pissed off about this and to make matters worse the ruling unionist class punished them politically to ensure the existence of a state nationalists believe should never have existed in the first place.

Iwasfrozen

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

I don't care if they march as long as they stay out of areas where they aren't welcome.

But isn't that infringing one ones right to freedom of assembly? If residents of nationalist areas can prevent unionists from marching down nationalist areas in a united Ireland then what is to stop residents of Kildare street (the government) banning protesters from marching down their street? Or residents beside an industrial estate preventing unions picketing on their street.

If a united Ireland is ever going to work we have to respect people's right to freedom of assembly.

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

Don't you feel alienated by Junders views of southern society?

How about his outrageous comments about death camps?

Well I don't like them but he's entitled to his opinion.

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

Respect works both ways.

Indeed it does.

Lonesome Boatman

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

But isn't that infringing one ones right to freedom of assembly? If residents of nationalist areas can prevent unionists from marching down nationalist areas in a united Ireland then what is to stop residents of Kildare street (the government) banning protesters from marching down their street? Or residents beside an industrial estate preventing unions picketing on their street.

If a united Ireland is ever going to work we have to respect people's right to freedom of assembly.


Well I don't like them but he's entitled to his opinion.


Indeed it does.

Common sense indicates that if sectarian marches pass through nationalist areas there will be flash points and possible violence. The people who live in areas like this are sick of the same thing happening every year.

What reasons would they have for marching through a nationalist area where they know they are not welcome other than to antagonise?

Its simple, change your route and march through areas where you are welcome and celebrate your culture in a non triumphalist way.

Nationalists shouldn't need to prevent this from happening, the orange order should have the common sense not to do it. There is no reason for them to march through nationalist areas other than to cause problems and intimidate nationalists.

Wolfe Tone

Iwasfrozen would let the KKK march through "black" areas, and neo Nazis march through Jewish communities.

dlofnep

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

They have a say in their own affairs. They are entitled to elect members to the House of Parliment, though the largest nationalist party waives that right.

I'm afraid 8 nationalist seats, in a 650 seat, predominately unionist house doesn't equate to having a say in their own affairs. They don't have a say in matters of economics, defense, foreign relations and culture.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

And there is a mechanism in place for the unification of Ireland in the form of the gfa if the majority in the north want it.

I'm aware of this. That doesn't change the reality of the status quo. Nationalists have limited to no influence in policies that directly affect them.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So do what? There are only two options, 1) Ban them from marching or 2) Re-direct their route. The former won't work because it infringes on their right to celebrate their culture and the latter is what is currently being discussed.

I was purely discussing the reality of these marches, and why nationalists would have a valid gripe with them. You called their maturity into question, which has nothing to do with it.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I do try and understand the nationalist position, their country was split in two some where caught on the wrong side. They were rightly pissed off about this and to make matters worse the ruling unionist class punished them politically to ensure the existence of a state nationalists believe should never have existed in the first place.

You do try, but you stop short of the line in my experience. You are overly-accommodating to empathising with the unionist position, but less accommodating to the nationalist position. You are quick to defend unionist interests, but I've yet to see you defend nationalist interests. And posting "I do try and understand the nationalist position" - without every demonstrating it in past posts doesn't garner my confidence.

I mean, telling nationalists to grow up because they take issue with a bunch of bigots flying UVF banners and marching down their streets, placing them under virtual house-arrest during the process isn't what I would call a position of balanced understanding.

KeithAFC

I mean, telling nationalists to grow up because they take issue with a bunch of bigots flying UVF banners and marching down their streets, placing them under virtual house-arrest during the process isn't what I would call a position of balanced understanding.

Depends which UVF flag your talking about. 1916 UVF flag is good.

KeithAFC

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

You claim to be majority
Well you know that it's a lie
You're really a minority
On this sweet emerald isle

You like being the dominant majority so you can bask in triumphalism and antagonise your nationalist neighbours.

But the times they are a changin.... :pac:

I am a Loyal Ulster man
They say this day that I must hang
Cause I fought the IRA
They say that I must pay
Well they say this day that I must hang.

So build my gallows build them high
That I might see before I die
The Antrim glen and the hills of County Down
And I’ll see again the lights of home

Wolfe Tone

Yes, lets have a rebel song pissing context

maxxie

KeithAFC wrote: »

I am a Loyal Ulster man
They say this day that I must hang
Cause I fought the IRA
They say that I must pay
Well they say this day that I must hang.

So build my gallows build them high
That I might see before I die
The Antrim glen and the hills of County Down
And I’ll see again the lights of home

You always show your true colours!

KeithAFC

maxxie wrote: »

You always show your true colours!

I love that song.

I am a loyalist. Everyone here knows that. Most of you are republicans.

maxxie

KeithAFC wrote: »

I love that song.

I am a loyalist. Everyone here knows that. Most of you are republicans.

I am a free Irish man that is all! Dont live in the past..

KeithAFC

maxxie wrote: »

I am a free Irish man that is all! Dont live in the past..

Sure.

Wolfe Tone

maxxie wrote: »

I am a free Irish man that is all! Dont live in the past..

You must be from the south then?

maxxie

KeithAFC wrote: »

Sure.

I dont forget but I try not drag it up all the time like you guys,

maxxie

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

You must be from the south then?

I am thank God

Lonesome Boatman

KeithAFC wrote: »

I am a Loyal Ulster man
They say this day that I must hang
Cause I fought the IRA
They say that I must pay
Well they say this day that I must hang.

So build my gallows build them high
That I might see before I die
The Antrim glen and the hills of County Down
And I’ll see again the lights of home

A song about a fictional loyalist?

When were any loyalists hung for fighting the IRA?

Never. :pac:

KeithAFC

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

A song about a fictional loyalist?

When were any loyalists hung for fighting the IRA?

Never. :pac:

They say i must hang.. well build my gallows high!.

junder

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

I don't care if they march as long as they stay out of areas where they aren't welcome.

Don't you feel alienated by Junders views of southern society?

How about his outrageous comments about death camps?

Respect works both ways.

Who mentioned death camps ? Think I said gas chambers and is was said as "reactionary banter" as i am tired of the "illogical and asinine suggestions and assumptions" about my community and culture

maxxie

junder wrote: »

Who mentioned death camps ? Think I said gas chambers and is was said as "reactionary banter" as i am tired of the "illogical and asinine suggestions and assumptions" about my community and culture

We have only spoke of what has been clearly shown!

Wolfe Tone

KeithAFC wrote: »

They say i must hang.. well build my gallows high!.

Pretty sure they would just shoot you keith

maxxie

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Pretty sure they would just shoot you keith

haha and junder, two head wreckers