WikiLeaks & Sinn Fein

OhNoYouDidn't · 23-12-2010 12:56pm

junder wrote: »

Jewish business were attacked by the ira, so glass houses, bricks so on and so forth

The worrying thing is you actually believe this to be true.

The only thing I am learning from you is that you really have a surreal understanding of the south. I mean the above is so far beyond wrong its hard to know where to begin

junder · 23-12-2010 1:34pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

The worrying thing is you actually believe this to be true.

The only thing I am learning from you is that you really have a surreal understanding of the south. I mean the above is so far beyond wrong its hard to know where to begin

The worrying thing is you keep denying the past, if you have issue with what I have said take it up with tim pat coogan, the information comes from
His book the IRA, while we are on the subject Arthur Griffith the founder of sinn fein was an anti-Semite.

danbohan · 23-12-2010 1:38pm

junder wrote: »

The worrying thing is you keep denying the past, if you have issue with what I have said take it up with tim pat coogan, the information comes from
His book the IRA, while we are on the subject Arthur Griffith the founder of sinn fein was an anti-Semite.

sinn fein was an anti-Semite
now i understand why loyalists use israeli flags .i used think it was cos their dear leader said they were a lost tribe of israel .

junder · 23-12-2010 1:40pm

The Limerick pogrom against the Jewish community 1904

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3724/is_199710/ai_n8777131/

" Arthur Griffith claimed the boycott was only directed against the trading methods of the Jews, that the reference to ritual murder was taken out of context and that Creagh's object was noble. He described the Jews as `hideous. . . wild, savage, filthy forms.. . strange people, alien to us in thought.' Griffith linked Limerick, Dreyfus and the South African Jews together to show that internationally they were evil. It was Griffith who propagated the vision of a Catholic Gaelic Irish race that could not include Jewish aliens - nor, by implication, Protestants. This was the ideology he brought to Sinn Fein. This was what Ourselves Alone meant to its founder. It has a strong bearing on the true philosophy of Sinn Fein today. Gerry Adams refused to discuss the founder of Sinn Fein with me."

OhNoYouDidn't · 23-12-2010 2:09pm

junder wrote: »

The Limerick pogrom against the Jewish community 1904

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3724/is_199710/ai_n8777131/

" Arthur Griffith claimed the boycott was only directed against the trading methods of the Jews, that the reference to ritual murder was taken out of context and that Creagh's object was noble. He described the Jews as `hideous. . . wild, savage, filthy forms.. . strange people, alien to us in thought.' Griffith linked Limerick, Dreyfus and the South African Jews together to show that internationally they were evil. It was Griffith who propagated the vision of a Catholic Gaelic Irish race that could not include Jewish aliens - nor, by implication, Protestants. This was the ideology he brought to Sinn Fein. This was what Ourselves Alone meant to its founder. It has a strong bearing on the true philosophy of Sinn Fein today. Gerry Adams refused to discuss the founder of Sinn Fein with me."

I would question the source, but even if all this is true, you claimed the IRA 'attacked' Jewish businesses.

Will you stop exaggerating everything, it makes you look like a raving lunatic,

OhNoYouDidn't · 23-12-2010 2:13pm

junder wrote: »

The worrying thing is you keep denying the past, if you have issue with what I have said take it up with tim pat coogan, the information comes from
His book the IRA, while we are on the subject Arthur Griffith the founder of sinn fein was an anti-Semite.

I have read most of TPC's stuff, and never read that. Also, do you not think it would be a slightly bigger deal if it happened?

There is one political tradition in Ireland associated with the extreme right, BNP, C18, The KKK, and that is Loyalism. Your attempts to deflect are pathetic.

Cú Giobach · 23-12-2010 2:15pm

junder wrote: »

The Limerick pogrom against the Jewish community 1904

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3724/is_199710/ai_n8777131/

" Arthur Griffith claimed the boycott was only directed against the trading methods of the Jews, that the reference to ritual murder was taken out of context and that Creagh's object was noble. He described the Jews as `hideous. . . wild, savage, filthy forms.. . strange people, alien to us in thought.' Griffith linked Limerick, Dreyfus and the South African Jews together to show that internationally they were evil. It was Griffith who propagated the vision of a Catholic Gaelic Irish race that could not include Jewish aliens - nor, by implication, Protestants. This was the ideology he brought to Sinn Fein. This was what Ourselves Alone meant to its founder. It has a strong bearing on the true philosophy of Sinn Fein today. Gerry Adams refused to discuss the founder of Sinn Fein with me."

So Junder, people in 2010 cannot mention it if someone is being racist or sectarian because of something their forbearers did 100 or 50 years ago.
Would you also accept use of the comment "glass houses bricks etc" if a German person today complained about someone being sectarian??

KeithAFC · 23-12-2010 2:35pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I have read most of TPC's stuff, and never read that. Also, do you not think it would be a slightly bigger deal if it happened?

There is one political tradition in Ireland associated with the extreme right, BNP, C18, The KKK, and that is Loyalism. Your attempts to deflect are pathetic.

How is Loyalisim associated with the KKK and C18? Everyone has different political views. Loyalisim has **** all to do with the KKK or C18. It does what it says. Loyal to the crown and to Country.

Can'tseeme · 23-12-2010 2:51pm

I was watching the Anti-Nazi/BNP demonstration earlier this year outside the BBC in Belfast regarding Nick Griffin appearing on Question Time. Loyalist BNP supporters showed up, with flags and tried to intimidate the protesters. No one is saying that all Unionists are Nazi BNP supporters but certainly the BNP are organising themselves in Loyalist working class areas. I hope they fail and don't win over the hearts and minds of most of the people in those areas.

Now, instead of sticking their heads in the sand, I wish the loyalists on this thread would actually admit there is an issue within loyalism of Racism/sectarianism and that it needs to be dealt with. But no, they'd prefer to come off with ridiculous comparisions of SF and the BNP (organisations which are polar opposites), to suit there own political outlook. Or just claim that "you nationalists don't understand us which is why a UI wouldn't work."

KeithAFC · 23-12-2010 2:54pm

Can'tseeme wrote: »

I was watching the Anti-Nazi/BNP demonstration earlier this year outside the BBC in Belfast regarding Nick Griffin appearing on Question Time. Loyalist BNP supporters showed up, with flags and tried to intimidate the protesters. No one is saying that all Unionists are Nazi BNP supporters but certainly the BNP are organising themselves in Loyalist working class areas. I hope they fail and don't win over the hearts and minds of most of the people in those areas.

Now, instead of sticking their heads in the sand, I wish the loyalists on this thread would actually admit there is an issue within loyalism of Racism/sectarianism and that it needs to be dealt with. But no, they'd prefer to come off with ridiculous comparisions of SF and the BNP (organisations which are polar opposites), to suit there own political outlook. Or just claim that "you nationalists don't understand us which is why a UI wouldn't work."

There is racists in every walk of life. I was reading a forum a few days ago (a republican forum of some sorts) and he says he wants a United Ireland but only with the white race). I mean, you get them everywhere.

OhNoYouDidn't · 23-12-2010 3:01pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

There is racists in every walk of life. I was reading a forum a few days ago (a republican forum of some sorts) and he says he wants a United Ireland but only with the white race). I mean, you get them everywhere.

But the Loyalist paramilitaries have formal links with these fascist groups. C18 and the UDA are joined at the hip

KeithAFC · 23-12-2010 3:04pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But the Loyalist paramilitaries have formal links with these fascist groups. C18 and the UDA are joined at the hip

I don't care for the UDA. The UDA seem confused anyway.

Can'tseeme · 23-12-2010 3:05pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

There is racists in every walk of life. I was reading a forum a few days ago (a republican forum of some sorts) and he says he wants a United Ireland but only with the white race). I mean, you get them everywhere.

Read my post again.

No one is saying that all Unionists are Nazi BNP supporters but certainly the BNP are organising themselves in Loyalist working class areas. I hope they fail and don't win over the hearts and minds of most of the people in those areas.

KeithAFC · 23-12-2010 3:12pm

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Read my post again.

No one is saying that all Unionists are Nazi BNP supporters but certainly the BNP are organising themselves in Loyalist working class areas. I hope they fail and don't win over the hearts and minds of most of the people in those areas.

Only because Loyalists are Pro British. The BNP have their own agenda. The vast majority would ignore them.

BlaasForRafa · 23-12-2010 3:23pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But the Loyalist paramilitaries have formal links with these fascist groups. C18 and the UDA are joined at the hip

And the IRA have links with the PLO/Fatah, Hezbollah, Iran, Libya and other factions that rather dislike Israel/Jews. Thats why some Loyalists fly Israeli flags, presumably under the principle of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

OhNoYouDidn't · 23-12-2010 3:28pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

And the IRA have links with the PLO/Fatah, Hezbollah, Iran, Libya and other factions that rather dislike Israel/Jews. Thats why some Loyalists fly Israeli flags, presumably under the principle of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Can you source anything on the IRA's 'links' to Iran and Hezbollah?

I agree with you that a lot of Loyalist support for Isreal is a myopic reaction to Republicans support for the Palestinians, but you seem to be hinting that this support is anti-semetic in nature, rather than anti-imperialist, which is naughty of you.

KeithAFC · 23-12-2010 3:33pm

The only reason i favour Israel is because i support their right to exist. Same with Northern Ireland.

dlofnep · 23-12-2010 3:35pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

The only reason i favour Israel is because i support their right to exist.

So presumably, you support their illegal occupation of Palestine?

KeithAFC · 23-12-2010 3:38pm

dlofnep wrote: »

So presumably, you support their illegal occupation of Palestine?

Don't care to be honest.

dlofnep · 23-12-2010 3:40pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I agree with you that a lot of Loyalist support for Isreal is a myopic reaction to Republicans support for the Palestinians, but you seem to be hinting that this support is anti-semetic in nature, rather than anti-imperialist, which is naughty of you.

Hear hear.

Accusations of antisemitism are hilarious, and don't deserve a bat of an eye in 99% of cases. There are true anti-semites in the world (usually dressed in white hoods, with skin-heads and swastika tatoos) - But supporters of Israel disingenuously at every given opportunity, label critics of Israeli policy as anti-semitic.

If anybody thinks that the global support of Palestine is due to anti-semitism, opposed to anti-imperialism, they have their head stuck firmly up their own arse.

dlofnep · 23-12-2010 3:44pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

Don't care to be honest.

That is why your opinion should never, and will never be taken seriously. You support Israel, only because nationalists support Palestine. It is reactionary politics, and an archaic mindset to have.

You neglect the reality that Israel bulldozes down houses of Palestinians evicting them from their own land - so that they can create illegal settlements at the expense of the local population.

KeithAFC · 23-12-2010 3:46pm

dlofnep wrote: »

That is why your opinion should never, and will never be taken seriously. You support Israel, only because nationalists support Palestine. It is reactionary politics, and an archaic mindset to have.

You neglect the reality that Israel bulldozes down houses of Palestinians evicting them from their own land - so that they can create illegal settlements at the expense of the local population.

Im sure we have had this discussion before. Israel is in the hot pot of the biggest religious terrorist nutters in the world all willing to crush them if they could.

If people want to read my opinions and take them seriously or not, i frankly don't care. I will continue to give it .

Can'tseeme · 23-12-2010 3:58pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

Only because Loyalists are Pro British. The BNP have their own agenda. The vast majority would ignore them.

Aye, sure just keep your head in the sand. There have been countless stories of racist/sectarian abuse and ethnic families put out of there homes in Loyalist areasover recent times. There has always been links with Loyalists and right wing British racist organisations.

Iwasfrozen · 23-12-2010 4:00pm

dlofnep wrote: »

So presumably, you support their illegal occupation of Palestine?

It's not illegal when it doesn't break any laws.

OhNoYouDidn't · 23-12-2010 4:02pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's not illegal when it doesn't break any laws.

Lets not do that here. Destroying that lie will see the thread closed

BlaasForRafa · 23-12-2010 4:03pm

dlofnep wrote: »

So presumably, you support their illegal occupation of Palestine?

One thing dosen't necessarily lead to the other.

It seems like your trying to drag this thread off-topic into being an anti-Israeli one rather than being about Sinn Fein dodginess.

dlofnep · 23-12-2010 4:04pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

Im sure we have had this discussion before. Israel is in the hot pot of the biggest religious terrorist nutters in the world all willing to crush them if they could.

That doesn't excuse it's actions I'm afraid. Israel is as much of a terrorist state as any other states around it.

Regardless - even if Israel was a morally sound state (Which it isn't) - It still wouldn't excuse it's actions regarding settlements, bulldozing down of people's houses, and stopping legitimate aid from reaching an impoverished people.

OhNoYouDidn't · 23-12-2010 4:05pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

One thing dosen't necessarily lead to the other.

It seems like your trying to drag this thread off-topic into being an anti-Israeli one rather than being about Sinn Fein dodginess.

Iran, Hezbollah, source?

dlofnep · 23-12-2010 4:06pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

One thing dosen't necessarily lead to the other.

It seems like your trying to drag this thread off-topic into being an anti-Israeli one rather than being about Sinn Fein dodginess.

You mentioned Israel before I did. Is your memory that short?

This thread has been off-topic for about 50 pages and hasn't brought anything new to light, that wasn't suggested before.

KeithAFC · 23-12-2010 4:07pm

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Aye, sure just keep your head in the sand. There have been countless stories of racist/sectarian abuse and ethnic families put out of there homes in Loyalist areasover recent times. There has always been links with Loyalists and right wing British racist organisations.

There has been countless dissident bombs in the last year. Doesn't mean the VAST MAJORITY of republicans support them.

Same with that argument. A boring argument to be honest.

WikiLeaks & Sinn Fein

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