WikiLeaks & Sinn Fein

danbohan · 24-12-2010 10:33am

KeithAFC wrote: »

We'll fight and don't surrender
But come when duty calls
With heart and hand and sword and shield!

nice that the spirt of christmas has touched you so deeply keith !

KeithAFC · 24-12-2010 10:34am

I love christmas

lol.

mgmt · 24-12-2010 10:34am

Fianna Fail, the republican party, ended the United Ireland dream. Just forget it.

junder · 24-12-2010 11:22am

dlofnep wrote: »

When did we ever have gas chambers in Ireland? Do they replace Nazis with Irish people in your history books or something? No wonder you're so fearful of us.

The truth is junder - Unionists would be treated perfectly fine in a UI. Any rhetoric you see on this forum is reactionary banter from some posters, who are probably tired of your illogical and asinine suggestions and assumptions.

Illogical, How exactly?

dlofnep · 24-12-2010 12:21pm

junder wrote: »

Illogical, How exactly?

I believe I already explained that.

OhNoYouDidn't · 24-12-2010 12:26pm

mgmt wrote: »

Yes, they'll have to pay the same high taxes as the rest of us.

This despite the fact that taxes are lower in the south than the 6?

Iwasfrozen · 24-12-2010 1:16pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

This despite the fact that taxes are lower in the south than the 6?

I'd pay their taxes for their health service in a heartbeat.

Lonesome Boatman · 24-12-2010 1:50pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

We'll fight and don't surrender
But come when duty calls
With heart and hand and sword and shield!

You claim to be majority
Well you know that it's a lie
You're really a minority
On this sweet emerald isle

You like being the dominant majority so you can bask in triumphalism and antagonise your nationalist neighbours.

But the times they are a changin.... :pac:

BlaasForRafa · 24-12-2010 1:57pm

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

He will be in Afghanistan killing people for oil on behalf of the British government.

How big are the reserves of oil in afghanistan hmm?

Iwasfrozen · 24-12-2010 1:59pm

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

You claim to be majority

Yes.

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

Well you know that it's a lie

No it isn't.

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

You're really a minority
On this sweet emerald isle

Not yet. And what makes you think even when catholics are a majority they will vote for a united Ireland?

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

You like being the dominant majority so you can bask in triumphalism and antagonise your nationalist neighbours.

Maybe their nationalist neighbours should just grow up and stop being antagonised about a war they lost many hundreds of years ago?

OhNoYouDidn't · 24-12-2010 2:02pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

How big are the reserves of oil in afghanistan hmm?

LINK!?!

Either back it up or retract it.

dlofnep · 24-12-2010 2:10pm

Iwasfrozen - You're responding to the lyrics of a song

Lonesome Boatman · 24-12-2010 2:10pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes.

No it isn't.

Not yet. And what makes you think even when catholics are a majority they will vote for a united Ireland?

Maybe their nationalist neighbours should just grow up and stop being antagonised about a war they lost many hundreds of years ago?

Who is talking about the battle of the Boyne? Are you that ignorant you are dressing that up as a nationalist v loyalist war? If so that is one of the most ignorant things ive read in this thread and that takes some doing. The only other explanation other than ignorance is trolling.

Yes loyalists make up a 1/5th of the population on this sweet emerald isle.

I was engaging in a bit of banter with Keith you humourless pedant.

John Lennon lyrics and your responding to them as if its a serious post. :pac::pac::pac: :pac::pac::pac:

Iwasfrozen · 24-12-2010 2:20pm

dlofnep wrote: »

Iwasfrozen - You're responding to the lyrics of a song

I know...

Iwasfrozen · 24-12-2010 2:22pm

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

Who is talking about the battle of the Boyne? Are you that ignorant you are dressing that up as a nationalist v loyalist war? If so that is one of the most ignorant things ive read in this thread and that takes some doing. The only other explanation other than ignorance is trolling.

Yes loyalists make up a 1/5th of the population on this sweet emerald isle.

I was engaging in a bit of banter with Keith you humourless pedant.

John Lennon lyrics and your responding to them as if its a serious post. :pac::pac::pac: :pac::pac::pac:

It's not the song that got on my goat it's your attitude to people who don't agree with you. Perhaps instead of making fun of people you could better serve your time trying to understand their position.

Lonesome Boatman · 24-12-2010 2:27pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's not the song that got on my goat it's your attitude to people who don't agree with you. Perhaps instead of making fun of people you could better serve your time trying to understand their position.

You have a great understanding of nationalists in the North if you think they should just 'grow up'.

In the face of sectarian marches being forced through their areas and being met with UVF and UDA slogans and banners.

Great understanding, wish i was as understanding as you.

Celebrating a 300 year old war and nationalists are the ones who should 'move on' and 'grow up'. lol

dlofnep · 24-12-2010 2:32pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Maybe their nationalist neighbours should just grow up and stop being antagonised about a war they lost many hundreds of years ago?

Yes - Maybe those nationalists should just grow up, and assimilate into British society - and forget about having a modicum of a say in their own affairs.

I don't think the levels of maturity is an issue when 1000's of people march down your street, celebrating the fact that you are reluctantly under their control. It's a valid gripe.

To quote a wise old man.

Perhaps instead of making fun of people you could better serve your time trying to understand their position.

You might take heed from your own advice. Just an observation.

Iwasfrozen · 24-12-2010 2:34pm

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

You have a great understanding of nationalists in the North if you think they should just 'grow up'.

In the face of sectarian marches being forced through their areas and being met with UVF and UDA slogans and banners.

Great understanding, wish i was as understanding as you.

Celebrating a 300 year old war and nationalists are the ones who should 'move on' and 'grow up'. lol

Perhaps the word grow up was a little harsh. But if there is ever to be a united Ireland nationalists have to accept unionists traditions, including marching, or risk alienating them. And antagonistic attitudes like the one you've shown to Keith and Junder are not going to help.

Lonesome Boatman · 24-12-2010 2:38pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Perhaps the word grow up was a little harsh. But if there is ever to be a united Ireland nationalists have to accept unionists traditions, including marching, or risk alienating them. And antagonistic attitudes like the one you've shown to Keith and Junder are not going to help.

I don't care if they march as long as they stay out of areas where they aren't welcome.

Don't you feel alienated by Junders views of southern society?

How about his outrageous comments about death camps?

Respect works both ways.

Iwasfrozen · 24-12-2010 2:41pm

dlofnep wrote: »

Yes - Maybe those nationalists should just grow up, and assimilate into British society - and forget about having a modicum of a say in their own affairs.

They have a say in their own affairs. They are entitled to elect members to the House of Parliment, though the largest nationalist party waives that right. And there is a mechanism in place for the unification of Ireland in the form of the gfa if the majority in the north want it.

dlofnep wrote: »

I don't think the levels of maturity is an issue when 1000's of people march down your street, celebrating the fact that you are reluctantly under their control. It's a valid gripe.

So do what? There are only two options, 1) Ban them from marching or 2) Re-direct their route. The former won't work because it infringes on their right to celebrate their culture and the latter is what is currently being discussed.

dlofnep wrote: »

You might take heed from your own advice. Just an observation.

I do try and understand the nationalist position, their country was split in two some where caught on the wrong side. They were rightly pissed off about this and to make matters worse the ruling unionist class punished them politically to ensure the existence of a state nationalists believe should never have existed in the first place.

Iwasfrozen · 24-12-2010 2:48pm

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

I don't care if they march as long as they stay out of areas where they aren't welcome.

But isn't that infringing one ones right to freedom of assembly? If residents of nationalist areas can prevent unionists from marching down nationalist areas in a united Ireland then what is to stop residents of Kildare street (the government) banning protesters from marching down their street? Or residents beside an industrial estate preventing unions picketing on their street.

If a united Ireland is ever going to work we have to respect people's right to freedom of assembly.

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

Don't you feel alienated by Junders views of southern society?

How about his outrageous comments about death camps?

Well I don't like them but he's entitled to his opinion.

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

Respect works both ways.

Indeed it does.

Lonesome Boatman · 24-12-2010 3:00pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

But isn't that infringing one ones right to freedom of assembly? If residents of nationalist areas can prevent unionists from marching down nationalist areas in a united Ireland then what is to stop residents of Kildare street (the government) banning protesters from marching down their street? Or residents beside an industrial estate preventing unions picketing on their street.

If a united Ireland is ever going to work we have to respect people's right to freedom of assembly.

Well I don't like them but he's entitled to his opinion.

Indeed it does.

Common sense indicates that if sectarian marches pass through nationalist areas there will be flash points and possible violence. The people who live in areas like this are sick of the same thing happening every year.

What reasons would they have for marching through a nationalist area where they know they are not welcome other than to antagonise?

Its simple, change your route and march through areas where you are welcome and celebrate your culture in a non triumphalist way.

Nationalists shouldn't need to prevent this from happening, the orange order should have the common sense not to do it. There is no reason for them to march through nationalist areas other than to cause problems and intimidate nationalists.

Wolfe Tone · 24-12-2010 3:03pm

Iwasfrozen would let the KKK march through "black" areas, and neo Nazis march through Jewish communities.

dlofnep · 24-12-2010 3:04pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

They have a say in their own affairs. They are entitled to elect members to the House of Parliment, though the largest nationalist party waives that right.

I'm afraid 8 nationalist seats, in a 650 seat, predominately unionist house doesn't equate to having a say in their own affairs. They don't have a say in matters of economics, defense, foreign relations and culture.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

And there is a mechanism in place for the unification of Ireland in the form of the gfa if the majority in the north want it.

I'm aware of this. That doesn't change the reality of the status quo. Nationalists have limited to no influence in policies that directly affect them.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So do what? There are only two options, 1) Ban them from marching or 2) Re-direct their route. The former won't work because it infringes on their right to celebrate their culture and the latter is what is currently being discussed.

I was purely discussing the reality of these marches, and why nationalists would have a valid gripe with them. You called their maturity into question, which has nothing to do with it.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I do try and understand the nationalist position, their country was split in two some where caught on the wrong side. They were rightly pissed off about this and to make matters worse the ruling unionist class punished them politically to ensure the existence of a state nationalists believe should never have existed in the first place.

You do try, but you stop short of the line in my experience. You are overly-accommodating to empathising with the unionist position, but less accommodating to the nationalist position. You are quick to defend unionist interests, but I've yet to see you defend nationalist interests. And posting "I do try and understand the nationalist position" - without every demonstrating it in past posts doesn't garner my confidence.

I mean, telling nationalists to grow up because they take issue with a bunch of bigots flying UVF banners and marching down their streets, placing them under virtual house-arrest during the process isn't what I would call a position of balanced understanding.

KeithAFC · 24-12-2010 3:09pm

I mean, telling nationalists to grow up because they take issue with a bunch of bigots flying UVF banners and marching down their streets, placing them under virtual house-arrest during the process isn't what I would call a position of balanced understanding.

Depends which UVF flag your talking about. 1916 UVF flag is good.

KeithAFC · 24-12-2010 3:12pm

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

You claim to be majority
Well you know that it's a lie
You're really a minority
On this sweet emerald isle

You like being the dominant majority so you can bask in triumphalism and antagonise your nationalist neighbours.

But the times they are a changin.... :pac:

I am a Loyal Ulster man
They say this day that I must hang
Cause I fought the IRA
They say that I must pay
Well they say this day that I must hang.

So build my gallows build them high
That I might see before I die
The Antrim glen and the hills of County Down
And I’ll see again the lights of home

Wolfe Tone · 24-12-2010 3:12pm

Yes, lets have a rebel song pissing context

maxxie · 24-12-2010 3:19pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

I am a Loyal Ulster man
They say this day that I must hang
Cause I fought the IRA
They say that I must pay
Well they say this day that I must hang.

So build my gallows build them high
That I might see before I die
The Antrim glen and the hills of County Down
And I’ll see again the lights of home

You always show your true colours!

KeithAFC · 24-12-2010 3:20pm

maxxie wrote: »

You always show your true colours!

I love that song.

I am a loyalist. Everyone here knows that. Most of you are republicans.

maxxie · 24-12-2010 3:29pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

I love that song.

I am a loyalist. Everyone here knows that. Most of you are republicans.

I am a free Irish man that is all! Dont live in the past..

KeithAFC · 24-12-2010 3:33pm

maxxie wrote: »

I am a free Irish man that is all! Dont live in the past..

Sure.

Wolfe Tone · 24-12-2010 3:34pm

maxxie wrote: »

I am a free Irish man that is all! Dont live in the past..

You must be from the south then?

maxxie · 24-12-2010 3:36pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

Sure.

I dont forget but I try not drag it up all the time like you guys,

maxxie · 24-12-2010 3:46pm

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

You must be from the south then?

I am thank God

Lonesome Boatman · 24-12-2010 4:52pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

I am a Loyal Ulster man
They say this day that I must hang
Cause I fought the IRA
They say that I must pay
Well they say this day that I must hang.

So build my gallows build them high
That I might see before I die
The Antrim glen and the hills of County Down
And I’ll see again the lights of home

A song about a fictional loyalist?

When were any loyalists hung for fighting the IRA?

Never. :pac:

KeithAFC · 24-12-2010 4:57pm

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

A song about a fictional loyalist?

When were any loyalists hung for fighting the IRA?

Never. :pac:

They say i must hang.. well build my gallows high!.

junder · 24-12-2010 5:16pm

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

I don't care if they march as long as they stay out of areas where they aren't welcome.

Don't you feel alienated by Junders views of southern society?

How about his outrageous comments about death camps?

Respect works both ways.

Who mentioned death camps ? Think I said gas chambers and is was said as "reactionary banter" as i am tired of the "illogical and asinine suggestions and assumptions" about my community and culture

maxxie · 24-12-2010 6:24pm

junder wrote: »

Who mentioned death camps ? Think I said gas chambers and is was said as "reactionary banter" as i am tired of the "illogical and asinine suggestions and assumptions" about my community and culture

We have only spoke of what has been clearly shown!

Wolfe Tone · 24-12-2010 6:31pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

They say i must hang.. well build my gallows high!.

Pretty sure they would just shoot you keith

maxxie · 24-12-2010 6:38pm

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Pretty sure they would just shoot you keith

haha and junder, two head wreckers

dlofnep · 24-12-2010 6:58pm

Not that it wasn't already, but this thread has gone to shíte and served it's purpose. Sinn Féin bashing for the month is over. We'll see you all this time next month, when some other redundant, decade-old, non-issue is brought to light.

Iwasfrozen · 24-12-2010 7:02pm

dlofnep wrote: »

Not that it wasn't already, but this thread has gone to shíte and served it's purpose. Sinn Féin bashing for the month is over. We'll see you all this time next month, when some other redundant, decade-old, non-issue is brought to light.

Bye guys, see you in the new year. And Merry Christmas.

dlofnep · 24-12-2010 7:07pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Bye guys, see you in the new year. And Merry Christmas.

Merry Christmas:)

junder · 24-12-2010 7:16pm

Merry Christmas and a happy new year

KeithAFC · 24-12-2010 8:30pm

Merry xmas all

Wolfe Tone · 24-12-2010 10:02pm

Happy Christmas, look out for Fenian reindeer!

junder · 25-12-2010 1:52pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLkABxWn8wU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

dlofnep · 25-12-2010 2:21pm

Hope Santy came to all of ye

Bottle_of_Smoke · 25-12-2010 9:21pm

dlofnep wrote: »

Not that it wasn't already, but this thread has gone to shíte and served it's purpose. Sinn Féin bashing for the month is over. We'll see you all this time next month, when some other redundant, decade-old, non-issue is brought to light.

I've changed my mind on that. It's gotten so long I'm keeping quiet until it drags out and I get post number 1916

Cú Giobach · 26-12-2010 8:14pm

Bit late but, Merry Christmas and a Happy new Year to you all.
Kieth, Junder, Cheers lads, thanks for keeping me on my toes, all the best.

WikiLeaks & Sinn Fein

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