WikiLeaks & Sinn Fein

jonnybravo

Can't say I'm surprised!


http://www.irishexaminer.ie/ireland/ahern-was-convinced-adams-knew-of-bank-raid-139287.html

http://www.irishexaminer.ie/breakingnews/ireland/wikileaks-adams-an-ira-commander-ambassador-told-485440.html

DeVore

Did you notice just about all of their replies basically say "you cant prove anything" rather than "we didn't had nothing to do with it".

"...smile and smile and be a villain."

DeV.

Lonesome Boatman

Its common knowledge Gerry Adams was in the IRA, he calls himself a republican yet seems ashamed to admit he was ever in the IRA. The man has no integrity and has lied about countless things, including the harbouring of his paedophile brother.

jimmycrackcorm

But Pearse Doherty is such a great orator - all is forgiven....

Wolfe Tone

Bertie has been convinced about things before and been wrong.....

Wolfe Tone

DeVore wrote: »

Did you notice just about all of their replies basically say "you cant prove anything" rather than "we didn't had nothing to do with it".

"...smile and smile and be a villain."

DeV.

Thats pure sh!te and you know it. They say there is no evidence to make these accusations. Of course you WOULD interpret it that way. You get accused of something, you say "wait a min, you have no evidence to make such a claim!"

There is not a shred of evidence linking republicans to the Northern Bank robbery and Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams have both made their positions crystal clear in relation to these matters in the past,

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.ie/breakingnews/ireland/wikileaks-adams-an-ira-commander-ambassador-told-485440.html#ixzz17xNxonFo

But of course don't let that get in the way of a bit of shinner bashing eh? Get your few thanks and all is good.

zig

jonnybravo wrote: »

Can't say I'm surprised!

With Sinn Fein or Bertie?

deise go deo

this begs the question that if the government has evidence then why has it not been used?

imme

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Bertie has been convinced about things before and been wrong.....

The thread isn't about Bertie though:(

Big wip-de-doo I say. Most people assumed he was in the IRA, why wouldn't he have been?

Senior SF politician, who created a split in SF, with connected split in the IRA.

If he was an IRA commander and if he's elected to the Dail, he won't be the first former IRA commander to serve in the Dail, DeValera, Sean McEntee, Frank Aiken. big whip dee doo, I say. If he was why didn't he admit to it is the baffler. Was he ashamed?

imme

deise go deo wrote: »

this begs the question that if the government has evidence then why has it not been used?

to do what? prosecute?

if they knew Adams was then they knew McGuinness was also an IRA commander. Its about the Peace Process as we keep being told.

dlofnep

Nothing really enlightening here. It's just commentary. The views of one man. Nobody's views on the events are going to change.

DeVore wrote: »

Did you notice just about all of their replies basically say "you cant prove anything" rather than "we didn't had nothing to do with it".

Curious that they infact can't prove it, now isn't it? Considering it's the biggest bank heist in modern history and they don't have a shred of evidence. You'd think someone would slip up. Oh well - Who needs evidence in Ireland, right?

DeVore

It is/was in everyones interest, IMHO, that they get away with it. Sun tzu put it best, if you want your enemy to retreat, give them an exit.

DeV.

chucken1

Do you all know what??

It's impossible for a normal person to follow politics at the best of times..you lot on this forum are'nt making it any easier,

I dont know how long this forum is here..but are ordinary people ever going to get the benefit of your wisdom without the presumption we know what the **** your talking about!

expectationlost

says more about the gov/bertie then it does sinn fein

Paddysnapper

deise go deo wrote: »

this begs the question that if the government has evidence then why has it not been used?

Because we mustn't upset "The peace process"

DeVore

chucken1 wrote: »

Do you all know what??

It's impossible for a normal person to follow politics at the best of times..you lot on this forum are'nt making it any easier,

I dont know how long this forum is here..but are ordinary people ever going to get the benefit of your wisdom without the presumption we know what the **** your talking about!

Eh? Care to explain what's confusing you?

Look, don't worry, X-Factor will be on soon. :rolleyes:

DeV.

KeithAFC

Sinn Fein weren't behind the bank robbery, the British government was, they paid a lot of the PIRA members off.

No surprise about Gerry in the IRA as we all knew that. Its nice that he has went to a different country now.

senordingdong

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

But Pearse Doherty is such a great orator - all is forgiven....

Well now we know where SF planned to come up with the money for an alternative budget.

It's such a twist isn't it, one party robbing the banks while another guarantees them.

It does beg the question of why nothing was done....and I wonder if this will be used against Adams in his run for the Dail.

bastados

Am in Drogheda If Gerry Adams doorsteps me for my vote I'll ask him who killed the Farmer Tom Oliver...Murderers.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Again another ''not really very damaging'' cable from wikileaks. Wasn't Ahern publicly outraged at Sinn Fein when the robbery happened?

thegreengoblin

And to think that these men will likely be holding the balance of power in this country. *Shudders*

fitz

DeVore wrote: »

Did you notice just about all of their replies basically say "you cant prove anything" rather than "we didn't had nothing to do with it".

"...smile and smile and be a villain."

DeV.

I'm no supporter of Sinn Féin, far from it, but did you read the article?

tldr version: The Americans were told by Bertie that he reckoned the boys must have known what was going on because he was shown evidence that they were high up enough to have known.

He said as much at the time, this is just a record of the fact that he said it directly to the Americans too.
Trumped up nothing story based on a heap of assumption tbh.

PeterIanStaker

"crystal clear" - I laughed, and its nice to laugh on a Monday morning.

danbohan

thegreengoblin wrote: »

And to think that these men will likely be holding the balance of power in this country. *Shudders*

whether adams knew that the ira were going steal 20 million from the banks is pretty much just unprovable hearsay what is proven is that the ''bert'' let the banks steal 100s of billions from irish people , so go have another shudder when you ponder on that .

hallelujajordan

DeVore wrote: »

Did you notice just about all of their replies basically say "you cant prove anything" rather than "we didn't had nothing to do with it".

"...smile and smile and be a villain."

DeV.

Adams was pretty unambiguous on Morning Ireland this morning. He was asked clearly if he knew about or had anything to do with the robbery and he said he did not. It is perfectly reasonable for Sinn Fein to highlight the lack of evidence to support these claims.

Notorious97

I bet the anti SF heads in the country woke up this morning licking their lips to this news, As has been stated there is no evidence that the IRA or in fact republicans were behind this robbery. Why on earth would anybody trust the word of Bertie Ahern in this country, after all he has done to it.

No doubt anyway people will round on this as the Gospel and fact and blow this into a much bigger thing than it is. Its only a discussion between our sham government and American officials about who we believe stole the money, if they have solid proof present it to the rest of us.

COYW

senordingdong wrote: »

It does beg the question of why nothing was done....and I wonder if this will be used against Adams in his run for the Dail.

Nothing was done for the sake of the peace process, I'd imagine. Connecting any senior SF member to an incident like that could have derailed the peace process or would have seriously demaged it. Bertie knew about it at the time judging by his body language and tone when he spoke about it in the Dail. He was livid.

I have no doubt that similar stories will appear in the build up to the election. I would love to know why he repeatedly tried to get Jerry McCabe's killers out as part of the Belfast agreement. It is a shame to think that SF could hold the balance of power in the country. How low can we go?

Happyman42

COYW wrote: »

He was livid.

Feck off, why should they have cut him in? Why?

Monty Burnz

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Adams was pretty unambiguous on Morning Ireland this morning. He was asked clearly if he knew about or had anything to do with the robbery and he said he did not. It is perfectly reasonable for Sinn Fein to highlight the lack of evidence to support these claims.

He also says he wasn't in the IRA. The man has as much credibility as Frank Fahy.

ednwireland

if bertie told me it was daylight in the middle of the day i'd look out the window to check.
i find bertie being convinced as a very unconvincing arguement (maybe people outside of ireland actually thought he knew what was going on anywhere)

Monty Burnz

Notorious97 wrote: »

I bet the anti SF heads in the country woke up this morning licking their lips to this news, As has been stated there is no evidence that the IRA or in fact republicans were behind this robbery. Why on earth would anybody trust the word of Bertie Ahern in this country, after all he has done to it.

No doubt anyway people will round on this as the Gospel and fact and blow this into a much bigger thing than it is. Its only a discussion between our sham government and American officials about who we believe stole the money, if they have solid proof present it to the rest of us.

Yeah, if you can't believe people who murder children, who can you believe?

Bottle_of_Smoke

So within this non-story there's also another cable reguarding collusion and the murder of Pat Finucane

A cable said the former head of MI5 told US envoy Mitchell Reiss that her agency would turn over all the evidence it had on Mr Finucane's killing, provided any inquiry into the killing is conducted under the terms of a law passed in 2005.
Taoiseach Mr Ahern told Mr Reiss that the Irish government wanted the UK to provide evidence acknowledging its involvement in Mr Finucane's murder and wanted to know how high in the UK government collusion went.

Pat Finucane was shot dead in front of his family The murder of Mr Finucane, 39, by the UDA/UFF remains one of the most controversial of 30 years of violence.

Loyalist paramilitaries shot him 14 times as he sat eating a Sunday meal at home, wounding his wife in the process. The couple's three children witnessed the 1989 attack.

The killing was one of the most controversial of the 30 years of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, mainly because of the allegations of collusion between loyalist paramilitaries and members of the security forces.

So effectively proves there was collusion at a high level for that incident. Otherwise MI5 wouldn't be insisting the inquiry's carried out under the terms of some law. Would have thought that would be more newsworthy than the print version of what Bertie publicly said a few years ago.

paky

Considering that the Banks stole from us and Bertie Ahearn s.crewed the country, shouldnt sinn fein be looked on as heroes since they stole from the banks? i cant see the problem here

whippet

Its amazing to see the apologists / supporters of Sinn Fein twisting this new information by making it about Bertie.

This issue is about the connection between SF leadership and the IRA, the connection between elected politicians and organised criminality. We all know these links are there despite SF’s denials.

The whole Gerry McCabe debacle and the support lended by SF to murderers, a SF TD’s election posters being in the boot off a car with some very dodgy gear driven by one of his mates.

I will beat the mantra and stand by it, a vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for murderers and criminals.

Forget about the articulate boy from Donegal, SF are so rotten to the core it turns my stomach.

Bottle_of_Smoke

whippet wrote: »

This issue is about the connection between SF leadership and the IRA, the connection between elected politicians and organised criminality. We all know these links are there despite SF’s denials.

Sinn Fein don't deny the links between them and PIRA. Thats why they've sstuck to claiming the IRA didn't do it, or rather, there's no evidence they did.

Nodin

whippet wrote: »

Its amazing to see the apologists / supporters of Sinn Fein twisting this new information by making it about Bertie.

..........

The story is about Berties opinion.....which we've heard before, IMO.

COYW

whippet wrote: »

vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for murderers and criminals.

With you 100%.

robbyvibes

Bertie Ahern is a man of integrity, as a FF supporter (as was my daddy and grandaddy before) i am offended by terrorist SF supporters who say Bertie Ahern has no credibility. He was the finest leader Ireland ever had, after Haughey of course.

Notorious97

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Yeah, if you can't believe people who murder children, who can you believe?

Wheres the proof they robbed it? Get off the band wagon

Notorious97

robbyvibes wrote: »

Bertie Ahern is a man of integrity, as a FF supporter (as was my daddy and grandaddy before) i am offended by terrorist SF supporters who say Bertie Ahern has no credibility. He was the finest leader Ireland ever had, after Haughey of course.

Hahahahahahahahahaha

Thanks for that laugh, seriously thank you, made my day haha FF are a party of traitors, alway shave been and always will be.

Back on point, again i state where is the proof the IRA were involved? How do you know it wasn’t rogue members acting for self profit if there is any links to the IRA? Its an anti-republicans wet dream this cable.

ghostdancer

so basically all this 'new' information is that a diplomat repeated what Bertie had already told everyone anyway.

:rolleyes:


funnily enough, Bertie's pal Phil Flynn was investigated as part of the Northern Bank robbery, and named by a business associate as part of the plan to launder the money:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/idqlsneygb/

Monty Burnz

Notorious97 wrote: »

Wheres the proof they robbed it? Get off the band wagon

I don't believe their denials. The evidence points towards IRA involvement - look at those people who were caught with some of the money in their possession. There is also the fact that nobody else would have as much expertise and experience of robbing banks as the glorious IRA. What were they up to when they murdered Gerry McCabe, can anyone remember?

Occam's Razor says it was the IRA. Can you propose a more likely explanation? I'm all ears.

maccored

that'll stop them pesky shinners making election gains ....... not. Im sure theres going to be even more anti SF bull**** appearing in the next few months

LordSutch

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

But Pearse Doherty is such a great orator - all is forgiven....

Good speaker, I'll give you that, but he still speaks for Sinn Fein, all is not forgiven :cool:

maccored

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I don't believe their denials. The evidence points towards IRA involvement - look at those people who were caught with some of the money in their possession. There is also the fact that nobody else would have as much expertise and experience of robbing banks as the glorious IRA. What were they up to when they murdered Gerry McCabe, can anyone remember?

Occam's Razor says it was the IRA. Can you propose a more likely explanation? I'm all ears.

Occam's Razor says it was the british government (thats if you have any understanding of occams razor).

whippet

Notorious97 wrote: »

Back on point, again i state where is the proof the IRA were involved? How do you know it wasn’t rogue members acting for self profit if there is any links to the IRA? Its an anti-republicans wet dream this cable.

SF will always just deny, deny, deny usually this is enough for their band of merry men and supporters. I am sure you believed Bertie when he said he just got a dig out? or do others have to prove innocence when it suit you?

As for proof, I am sure I heard a member of the press on Newstalk this morning saying there was a secret recording of an IRA Army Council meeting with Gerry and Martin present talking about the bank job.

Maybe someone could clarify, but if this is true, I don't see how anyone could defend them, let alone give them a vote.

I stand by my assertion that a vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for Murderers and Criminals.

Monty Burnz

maccored wrote: »

that'll stop them pesky shinners making election gains ....... not. Im sure theres going to be even more anti SF bull**** appearing in the next few months

Yes, the whole Wikileaks thing is an anti-Shinner plot :rolleyes:

To be honest, SF making and holding gains depends for a large part on the Irish public forgetting long enough that these guys are the political wing of a group of murderers, thieves and racketeers. They've eased up on the murder, to be fair - but that doesn't mean we have to forget what they have done in the past. On the plus side for SF, there's a large chunk of the populace who don't care about what they did and never read the papers anyway, so they will get solid support from them by saying the right things.

In addition, their economic policies are no good, but that's for another thread.

Monty Burnz

maccored wrote: »

Occam's Razor says it was the british government (thats if you have any understanding of occams razor).

So an elaborate conspiracy is the most likely explanation?

The Razor generally recommends selecting the competing hypothesis that makes the fewest new assumptions (aka postulates, entities) when the hypotheses be equal in other respects. For instance, they must both sufficiently explain available data in the first place. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood.

...unless you are a Shinner

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

ghostdancer

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I don't believe their denials. The evidence points towards IRA involvement - look at those people who were caught with some of the money in their possession. There is also the fact that nobody else would have as much expertise and experience of robbing banks as the glorious IRA. What were they up to when they murdered Gerry McCabe, can anyone remember?

Occam's Razor says it was the IRA. Can you propose a more likely explanation? I'm all ears.

remember the "IRA spy ring" at Stormont?
the one that turned out to be a complete fabrication by the PSNI?

i would prefer to see some evidence that the IRA were involved before believing it just because Bertie says so.

those who were caught with money in their possession don't seem to have been convicted, appart from Ted Cunningham, business associate of Phil Flynn, great pal of Bertie Ahern.

whippet

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Yes, the whole Wikileaks thing is an anti-Shinner plot :rolleyes:

To be honest, SF making and holding gains depends for a large part on the Irish public forgetting long enough that these guys are the political wing of a group of murderers, thieves and racketeers. They've eased up on the murder, to be fair - but that doesn't mean we have to forget what they have done in the past. On the plus side for SF, there's a large chunk of the populace who don't care about what they did and never read the papers anyway, so they will get solid support from them by saying the right things.

In addition, their economic policies are no good, but that's for another thread.

we all know that the election will just be a vote for anyone but FF. People who have never taken any notice of politics or the economy before will come out in force just so they can vote against FF.

The looney left and Sinn Fein will no doubt be knocking on doors bad mouthing main stream politics and picking up votes ... all on a very whishy washy manifesto that they can produce as they know they will never have to act on it.

Coupled with the retirment of many sitting TDs, there will be a stong possibility that SF could gain up to 14 seats and your Looney Left with another 6 or 7 ..... bizarre really.

I for one welcome all the bad press that can be published on SF, hopefully it will encourage more people to not vote for Murderers and Criminals

ghostdancer

Monty Burnz wrote: »

So an elaborate conspiracy is the most likely explanation?

...unless you are a Shinner

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

you think the British government (yet again) setting up a conspiracy is more elaborate than 20+ IRA members robbing a bank in the middle of Belfast city centre at Xmas, none of them being caught, and f- all of the money ever recovered?

incidentally, 50k of money from the robbery was found at a PSNI sports club.



the IRA probably did it, but for all the talk that they did, there's very, very little evidence, including this supposed "rock solid" evidence that Bertie says exists...