Protest March 27/11/2010

Krusader

Both O'Connor and Begg were booed when on stage yesterday, right enough for 'em

CDfm

Crosáidí wrote: »

Both O'Connor and Begg were booed when on stage yesterday, right enough for 'em

As Alanis Morrisette would say, isnt it ironic, the guys that quoted Jim Larkin did not quote the disasterous Economic War of the 1930's.

dayshah

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

David Begg was on the board of the Central Bank when all this was going on. The two faced hypocrite was also on the Aer Lingus board of directors when, in 2007 (or 2008), they voted to increase directors fees by 150%. So on top of his union salary and his other directors fees he got a top up few bob that on it's own was 1.5 times the average industrial wage. A champion of the poor.............

Do you know which way Begg voted? Its a bit like blaming Labour for the banking crisis. They were in a Dáil that voted for the guarantee, but they actually voted against it.

Begg doesn't keep the directors fees. He gets paid his salary by ICTU. The directors fees get paid to ICTU, not Begg.

Dartz

I still don't see what the point was. The whole lot's ****ed anyway. No matter what happens. Doesn't even make anyone feel better. Just cold. No matter what happens...what anyone does, things are just going to get worse.

CDfm

dayshah wrote: »

Do you know which way Begg voted? Its a bit like blaming Labour for the banking crisis. They were in a Dáil that voted for the guarantee, but they actually voted against it.

Begg doesn't keep the directors fees. He gets paid his salary by ICTU. The directors fees get paid to ICTU, not Begg.

Whether or not he kept the fees makes little difference.

He still had a duty as Board member -he still was a decision maker and it does raise the question whether he acted freely or whether the Union made policy decisions on how he voted an exercised his duties.

Who influenced his decisions ?

dayshah

CDfm wrote: »

Whether or not he kept the fees makes little difference.

That's simply not true.

CDfm

dayshah wrote: »

That's simply not true.

Why isn't it true, he had a duty as a board member irrespective as to what he did with the fees.

We know that the Union appointies to FAS misbehaved and did not protect the publics interest.

How do we know this didn't happen with other Board appointments , such as the one we are discussing here, the Central Bank.

Arcus Arrow

dayshah wrote: »

Do you know which way Begg voted? Its a bit like blaming Labour for the banking crisis. They were in a Dáil that voted for the guarantee, but they actually voted against it.

Begg doesn't keep the directors fees. He gets paid his salary by ICTU. The directors fees get paid to ICTU, not Begg.

A company board is not made up of a ruling party and a number of opposition parties. Not being on one is not an excuse for making the mix up.

Which way did he vote? I don't know. I know he's a so called union leader on the board of a company that is setting about the cutting of it's workers wages. The Aer Lingus fees go into a fund of the ICTU which is led by...David Begg? By being on the board he still gets the expense account no matter what route the fees travel. Why didn't he resign?

His pay from the union is €136000 per year. He doesn't represent people who can afford to reroute the odd €45 grand as a very nice self promotional exercise. This country can't cure it's problems being lectured by people who were part and parcel of creating those problems.

In 2009 Joe Higgins MEP reported that Aer Lingus had delayed the announcement of 700 job losses until after the Lisbon vote. Begg was a promoter of Lisbon.

This country is rotten right across the top. With a little bit of radical thinking we wouldn't have to sink into the economic hell hole were're heading for now. This country can't run itself.

celt 22

I was at the march and couldn't believe how timid it was, even the speechs. BCC reported that it was a very good natured protest. Was that really the message we wanted to give, that were not really angry just a little annoyed. I didn't want to see a riot or anybody getting hurt but a little disruption might have sent a message. We were sheparded around the streets like sheep with ICTU member taking over the role of the gardai. Bringing the march to the GPO was a cop out, sure it was sybolic but why not start it there then, we should have marched to leinster house and had the main speeches there.

CDfm

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

A company board is not made up of a ruling party and a number of opposition parties. Not being on one is not an excuse for making the mix up.

But their decisions have been political in the board room.

Which way did he vote? I don't know. I know he's a so called union leader on the board of a company that is setting about the cutting of it's workers wages. The Aer Lingus fees go into a fund of the ICTU which is led by...David Begg? By being on the board he still gets the expense account no matter what route the fees travel. Why didn't he resign?

Does he see any conflict of interest in his roles.

What hat is he wearing ?

His pay from the union is €136000 per year. He doesn't represent people who can afford to reroute the odd €45 grand as a very nice self promotional exercise. This country can't cure it's problems being lectured by people who were part and parcel of creating those problems.

In 2009 Joe Higgins MEP reported that Aer Lingus had delayed the announcement of 700 job losses until after the Lisbon vote. Begg was a promoter of Lisbon.[/quote]

So he does bring his politics into the boardroom.

This country is rotten right across the top. With a little bit of radical thinking we wouldn't have to sink into the economic hell hole were're heading for now. This country can't run itself.

I am not having a go merely highlighting the inconsistancy of union appointments to the boards of companies where they represent workers.

This is croneyism big time and it is not just FF.

dayshah

CDfm wrote: »

I am not having a go merely highlighting the inconsistancy of union appointments to the boards of companies where they represent workers.

This is standard practice across Europe. Probably most extensively in Germany. In fact there is an EU directive about these things.

Anyway, in Aer Lingus the workers are a significant shareholder.

CDfm

dayshah wrote: »

This is standard practice across Europe. Probably most extensively in Germany. In fact there is an EU directive about these things.

Anyway, in Aer Lingus the workers are a significant shareholder.

I am not saying that worker directors or worker appointed directors does not happen in Europe.

I dont care where the independent directors come from but I do care that when they are there they do the job they are supposed to do.

That is to act in the best interest of the company or the country.

Like it or not Union leaders were there at the helm and in the thick of it.

They need to take responsibility for their part in it.

Arcus Arrow

dayshah wrote: »

This is standard practice across Europe. Probably most extensively in Germany. In fact there is an EU directive about these things.

Anyway, in Aer Lingus the workers are a significant shareholder.

It's standard across Europe to have a political parties from whom the electorate choose a government. That's not the point. In another country they might be picking from a stable of racehorses: in Ireland we'er picking from a sty full of greedy pigs.

Worker directors whose livelihood depends on the success of the company they are employed by are not the same as someone like Begg who is brought in from the outside.

zxr500man

after i left the march, i was walking to the bus,there was laods of people just wandering around the shops,i could still hear the protest going strong,
it seemed like the hundreds of people were oblivious to what was going on even though ya could hear the protest ,it was weird??
one guy who was supose to come with me texed me before i left the house ,he reckoned it was to cold , oh and wet,
i was fairly disgusted,
but a good turn out over all id say,
mostly old people i would say 75 %:)
i think anyone who complains about the state of lreland and did not turn up to the protest for some other stupid political or weather excuse should not have an opinion

Arcus Arrow

CDfm wrote: »

I am not having a go merely highlighting the inconsistancy of union appointments to the boards of companies where they represent workers.

This is croneyism big time and it is not just FF.

FG are just as bad. At the next election, by default, I'll have to vote for Labour. I'd much rather vote for Michael O'Leary to run the country or some new political party but I don't see one on the horizon.

One of the Garda during the march, when David Begg's name came up said "Sure he was Reynolds man". I'm presuming he was referring to Albert. Begg is also part of the Vatican network. It's a State within the State.

The problem is the entire system is rotten. It's fixable but that would take a relatively huge radical leap for the majority of people. I doubt such a leap is possible. If it was possible for any population the Irish would be last on the list.

There was no trouble on the day of the march. I don't know if that's an entirely good sign. This whole state is so corrupted that no member of Dail Eireann should be able to show his face in public without being attacked by a lynch mob.

On Saturday it said something for the people who at least turned up as opposed to those who never turn up but criticise those who do. But will it make any difference? I don't think so.

CDfm

There is no leader out there who you feel right he is a safe pair of hands or this guy will reform X,Y & Z.

They have multiple allegiences operating and every group seem like they are out to con you.

Civil war politics & marxist defined politics have let us down & public servants are self service.

I would like to vote for the guy wielding the biggest axe.

K-9

CDfm wrote: »

There is no leader out there who you feel right he is a safe pair of hands or this guy will reform X,Y & Z.

They have multiple allegiences operating and every group seem like they are out to con you.

Civil war politics & marxist defined politics have let us down & public servants are self service.

I would like to vote for the guy wielding the biggest axe.

Richard Bruton is about the only one out of them all and FG went for the cute h**r instead. They'll pay for it next time in Ministerial positions.

Only man who I think would do what's needed and feck the political circumstances, like Ray Mac Sharry in 87.

Darlughda

Yo Degsy.

Waited all day with my placard for you to show up. No sign of you.

Huh.

Last time I'm asking you out on a date.

Arcus Arrow

CDfm wrote: »

There is no leader out there who you feel right he is a safe pair of hands or this guy will reform X,Y & Z.

They have multiple allegiences operating and every group seem like they are out to con you.

Civil war politics & marxist defined politics have let us down & public servants are self service.

I would like to vote for the guy wielding the biggest axe.

With some imagination there would be a lot less axe wielding needed. Millions of dollars are pent up across the world because of irrational religious objections to stem cell research: so legalise it in Ireland with a 25% corporation tax.

If you are born in Ireland and hold an Irish passport then you pay tax no matter where you live in the world: hello Denis O, Tony O and Mr Smurfit.

Make all political corruption retro to the foundation of the State. Have the CAB investigate every TD, Planner and developer, Traveller and anybody else who fits the bill.

Since previous laws providing tax amnesty's were put in place by a corrupt political system make all those who turned up smirking at the Revenue Commissioners liable to penalties.

Tax every penny organised religions take in. Make the CCL provide audited accounts and tax them the same as any company minus what they can prove goes directly to no strings charity.

By now people who are fatally incapacitated in the US, Europe and in other countries want the right to die: so legalise it.

Legalise marijuana and tax it like smokes. Amsterdam hasn't imploded as far as I know.

Review the English language and add in accents, umlauts, fadas, cedillas (whatever you want to call them) Then we could fill all those empty ghost estates with foreign language students. That would take in a billion a year and thanks to NAMA we already own the properties.

If risk has it's rewards then it should be just that: risk. Stuff the bondholders.

Mervyn Crawford

World Socialist Web Site report on march

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/nov2010/irel-n29.shtml

CDfm

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

With some imagination there would be a lot less axe wielding needed. .......... Stuff the bondholders.

LOL Arcus

Very tongue in cheek.

Our previous booms 50-60's and the celtic Tiger were from the Marshall Plan & EU.

Stuff the bondholders - that could have been done originally but not now. It would result in a credit crunch that would last 10 years or more and real austerity.

The New US & Them are the rest of us vs the Public Servants who are the New Rich and our socialist leaders are left wanting and wont help the poor.

@K9 +1 1000% WE NEED A MCSHARRY

prinz

Crosáidí wrote: »

Both O'Connor and Begg were booed when on stage yesterday, right enough for 'em

+1 I was waiting for this to be reported on the news. I actually did go down Saturday and ended up near the big screen outside the GPO, and I have to say on such a cold day that it warmed my heart that O'Connor and Begg got booed and heckled a lot of the time, however I didn't see that fact reported anywhere after the march.

Sonnenblumen

Any chance Begg/O'Connor could instruct their relevant members to grit our footpaths/streets, it's been 3 days now or are they still in bed? :mad:

gazzer

I drove down from Cavan on Sat morning and went to the protest. I met a few mates at Capel Street bridge and joined the march. I was so happy I went. I do so much giving out about this government that it was about time I actually got of my arse and did something about it.

I was delighted to hear Begg and O'Connor get booed. I dont think they were expecting it. IMO there was way more than 50,000 people at the march. It was a fantastic site to see so many people still walking over Wood Quay when we were marching up at the H'apenny bridge.

Mark200

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

FG are just as bad. At the next election, by default, I'll have to vote for Labour. I'd much rather vote for Michael O'Leary to run the country or some new political party but I don't see one on the horizon.

How are FG "just as bad"?

Labour are opposite to what O'Leary would represent. They don't care about inefficiency as long as people get to keep their inefficient jobs.

waxon-waxoff

Glad to hear the union leaders were heckled, they helped dig the hole we are in. Didnt go to the march as i didnt want to support the unions.

From what i seen on the news most of the crowd were middle aged and older. Im guessing the only reason they showed up is due to fears about their pensions, and maybe been burnt by the bank shares collapse. When the public sector were having protests last year it was the same thing. People that looked close to retirement were out in numbers and full of anger. Younger workers were much more relaxed about the whole thing, possibly realising the good position they were in, and accepted what was going on as inevitable.

Joey the lips

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Any chance Begg/O'Connor could instruct their relevant members to grit our footpaths/streets, it's been 3 days now or are they still in bed? :mad:

The amount of gitting is govt policy passed down to council level passed down to worker level.

I imagine if your not happy with the girit level you speak to your councillor TD.

I cannot figure how you can bring this down to a protest march....

Then again you prob represent the portion of the population that use one arguement to voice a completly seperate opinion...

thebigbiffo

gazzer wrote: »

I was delighted to hear Begg and O'Connor get booed. I dont think they were expecting it.

if i'd have known this was going to happen i may have went!:mad: i assumed the vast majority attending would be very pro unions.

zig

thebigbiffo wrote: »

if i'd have known this was going to happen i may have went!:mad: i assumed the vast majority attending would be very pro unions.

Tbf, it was common knowledge that alot if not the majority were going to protest the government as opposed to going with the unions, the whole 'im not going cause of unions' argument didnt really cut it by the Friday, it was just being used as an excuse for people not have to go.

gazzer

waxon-waxoff wrote: »

Glad to hear the union leaders were heckled, they helped dig the hole we are in. Didnt go to the march as i didnt want to support the unions.

From what i seen on the news most of the crowd were middle aged and older. Im guessing the only reason they showed up is due to fears about their pensions, and maybe been burnt by the bank shares collapse. When the public sector were having protests last year it was the same thing. People that looked close to retirement were out in numbers and full of anger. Younger workers were much more relaxed about the whole thing, possibly realising the good position they were in, and accepted what was going on as inevitable.

I thought the opposite. From looking at all the people around me when I was marching the majority were in their 20's and 30's