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Why do people keep rottweiler and pitbulls?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    Bodhisopha wrote: »
    Well, we know they are more lethal when reared wrong, or go mad or whatever. I'm sure a case of a Lab or Saint Bernard killing a child would get a lot of attention in the news just like the case with the foxes in England a few weeks ago.
    "when reared wrong" is the only thing in your post I'd agree with. Thats the reason for 99% of ALLdog attacks not just those involving RBs.
    Yes dogs can have mental illnesses but these are rare and can affect any breed and not a reason to say RB's are more dangerous.
    And it's been noted here on boards thousands of times that the media doesn't report on dog attacks unless it's by a RB because the "devil dogs" sell papers. The basis of your arguement is media coverage which, without insulting you, is pure ignorance.
    The reason the fox attack got so much publicity was because it was a freak accident. Dog attacks aren't. I could go on and tell you about how the top 10 list of dog breeds with the most attacks include dalmations, labs, collies etc that aren't on the RB list. But I won't ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,068 ✭✭✭Bodhisopha


    adser53 wrote: »
    "when reared wrong" is the only thing in your post I'd agree with. Thats the reason for 99% of ALLdog attacks not just those involving RBs.
    Yes dogs can have mental illnesses but these are rare and can affect any breed and not a reason to say RB's are more dangerous.
    And it's been noted here on boards thousands of times that the media doesn't report on dog attacks unless it's by a RB because the "devil dogs" sell papers. The basis of your arguement is media coverage which, without insulting you, is pure ignorance.
    The reason the fox attack got so much publicity was because it was a freak accident. Dog attacks aren't. I could go on and tell you about how the top 10 list of dog breeds with the most attacks include dalmations, labs, collies etc that aren't on the RB list. But I won't ;)

    That's all well and good but i never claimed other dogs are not prone to attack, my point is that when a pitbull, for example, attacks the consequences tend to be far more serious.

    That's interesting what you say about the media though. I can't believe the media refuse to report the cases in which collies and dalmatians have killed children. Strange that because to me that is sensational and the media loves the sensational, it sells.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭lrushe


    Bodhisopha wrote: »
    That's all well and good but i never claimed other dogs are not prone to attack, my point is that when a pitbull, for example, attacks the consequences tend to be far more serious.

    That's interesting what you say about the media though. I can't believe the media refuse to report the cases in which collies and dalmatians have killed children. Strange that because to me that is sensational and the media loves the sensational, it sells.

    How do you know the consequences are more serious? How often do you see the aftermath of Lab , Collie, Great Dane etc.? Not often because it is rarely reported in papers.
    EGAR who posts here will often tell how when she were attacked by a Lab the media were ready to report the story because they thought she'd been attacked by one of her Bullies, as soon as they found out it was a Lab they weren't interested (sorry for stealing your story EGAR :)). If that isn't propaganda of the highest order I don't know what is?!!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,068 ✭✭✭Bodhisopha


    lrushe wrote: »
    How do you know the consequences are more serious? How often do you see the aftermath of Lab , Collie, Great Dane etc.? Not often because it is rarely reported in papers.
    EGAR who posts here will often tell how when she were attacked by a Lab the media were ready to report the story because they thought she'd been attacked by one of her Bullies, as soon as they found out it was a Lab they weren't interested (sorry for stealing your story EGAR :)). If that isn't propaganda of the highest order I don't know what is?!!!!!

    Well, i've not heard of any cases where these dogs have killed anyone. But as has been pointed out to me a collie killing a child is such a common occurance that we as a society are numbed to such things to the point that the media doesn't bother reporting on it any more. Sort of like events in Iraq and Darfur.


  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    Bodhisopha wrote: »
    That's interesting what you say about the media though. I can't believe the media refuse to report the cases in which collies and dalmatians have killed children. Strange that because to me that is sensational and the media loves the sensational, it sells.
    I don't specifically mean "killed", just dog attacks in general, sorry if that came across wrong. The harsh reality is that it's not sensational at all because it's so common. the media doesn'nt report it because it's boring. a restricted breed attack, however, can be milked and sensationalised because a lot of people believe the BS about these breeds. EGAR might be on later to to tell her story like Irush said. If I remember correctly she had reporters outside her hospital room until they found out it was a lab but my memory is hazy :p


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,068 ✭✭✭Bodhisopha


    Adser, i refer you to my original post.
    Bodhisopha wrote: »
    I don't think these dogs have a reputation for being vicious, as such, not to my knowledge anyways. Their reputation is surrounded by the fact that should these dogs go mental (they are animals after all and even humans go mental) the damage caused is far greater than when a jack russel, for example, goes mental.

    People who let young children climb all over these potentially lethal dogs are idiots as far as i'm concerned.

    This is backed up by stats.

    http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html
    The deadliest dogs

    Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, has conducted an unusually detailed study of dog bites from 1982 to the present. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.) The Clifton study show the number of serious canine-inflicted injuries by breed. The author's observations about the breeds and generally how to deal with the dangerous dog problem are enlightening.
    According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states:
    If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.
    Clifton's opinions are as interesting as his statistics. For example, he says, "Pit bulls and Rottweilers are accordingly dogs who not only must be handled with special precautions, but also must be regulated with special requirements appropriate to the risk they may pose to the public and other animals, if they are to be kept at all."


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭EGAR


    9 people died in Germany in Great Dane attacks. A little girl in France was killed not too long ago in seconds by the family's Great Dane. These are just a few examples, I remember off hand without looking up my files. One owner in Germany got killed by his Dachshund x Spitz cross, go figure. Oh and several people in Germany have been killed by gundogs.

    When I was a child one of my neighbours got mauled by one his St. Bernards, he died later in hospital. The dog was six years old and never shown any aggression beforehand.

    Not too far from here a litte girl had her face ripped off by her family's pet, a border collie. Had the father not grabbed the dog, it would have killed her.

    The Labrador who attacked me meant business and I escaped by the skin of my teeth. A less dog savvy person or a child would not have stood a chance. And yes, it is true, I got phone calls and visits from reporters in hospital. That interest soon vaned once they found out who the culprit was.

    The press has NO interest in dog attacks other than bull breeds.

    And other breeds biting and killing: there you go: http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articles/OtherBreedBites/AllDogsBite.htm


    I am SICK and tired of people making statements without actually having ever met much less lived with a Pit Bull or a Rotti.

    I had a reporter interviewing me a few years back about my rescue. She sat on my couch with a dog on her lap and wrote everything down I said. After she was finished she said she would like to meet one of my Pit Bulls and I told her that she had had one sitting on her lap for the duration of her stay.

    Her jaw dropped - God only knows what she expected. Blood dripping jaws maybe ;).


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭EGAR


    Oh, I forgot, the only fatal incident with dogs in Ireland occured in Cork in the late 70s/early 80s - a girl got killed by her father's greyhounds.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭EGAR


    I am aware of Merrit Clifton's study (one of several, he also wrote about feral cats and swine flu - a jack-of-all-trades). He has failed to take demographics into consideration which clearly support the "bad owner - bad dog" statistics.

    Also, Mr Clifton is a former PETA employee and we all know what PETA thinks about dogs as pets and Pit Bulls in particular :D.

    So there now ;).


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,911 ✭✭✭✭scudzilla


    ANY dog can bita ya and make a nasty mess of ya, be it Poodle, Pibull, ****zu or Staffie.

    It's all how the dog is raised and brought up (Unless of course the dog is tapped in the first place)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,068 ✭✭✭Bodhisopha


    Listen, please acknowledge my original point, which was 100% spot on.

    All dogs are capable of snapping or attacking. I don't deny this, but when a pit bull or rottweiler, for example, snaps or attacks the consequences are far worse.

    Stop trying to shoehorn me into a different argument, i never said other dogs are incapable of attack.

    Here is a list of people killed by dogs in the US since 2005.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_killed_by_dogs_in_the_United_States


    Four fatalities in the US this year, 2 by rottweiler and 2 by pitbull.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭EGAR


    Bodhisopha wrote: »
    Four fatalities in the US this year, 2 by rottweiler and 2 by pitbull.

    You seem to do selective reading, the USA has sustained 17 fatal dog attacks in 2010, amongst which are cases like 5-year-old Kyle Holland of Lincoln Park, Michigan, was killed by his parents' dogs. The boy was sleeping when the white Labrador mix and/or the husky and German shepherd mix mauled him to death.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭lrushe


    Bodhisopha wrote: »
    All dogs are capable of snapping or attacking. I don't deny this, but when a pit bull or rottweiler, for example, snaps or attacks the consequences are far worse.

    Worse than death?? People have been killed by a host of different breeds / mixes that have never been banned and some who are still considered good family pets.


  • Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭DBCyc


    Bodhisopha wrote: »
    All dogs are capable of snapping or attacking. I don't deny this, but when a dog of larger than average size snaps or attacks the consequences are far worse.

    This what you meant to say?


  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    Bodhisopha wrote: »
    Listen, please acknowledge my original point, which was 100% spot on.

    All dogs are capable of snapping or attacking. I don't deny this, but when a pit bull or rottweiler, for example, snaps or attacks the consequences are far worse.

    Stop trying to shoehorn me into a different argument, i never said other dogs are incapable of attack.
    No ones shoehorning you but your missing our point here that rotties, pits etc won't do more damage than another "attacking" large breed. Comparing the end result of a rottie bite to a jrt one is silly as they aren't even remotely comparable in size alone. But compare a rottie attack to a saint bernard, great dane, lab etc and there's no difference. This is our point. These breeds are restricted with no reason and believing the media hype surrounding RBs is ignorance, plain and simple.

    Australia was the first country to impose restrictions on a specific breed (allegedly). Namely the GSD around the 1920s. And dya know why? Cos the government was worried that GSD's would mate with dingos to create the ultimate sheep predator. IMO the governments havn't a clue, especially not the Irish government piggybacking on the UK's laws, when it comes to animal welfare and breed specific legislation. Again, it's the owners to blame, not any one breed or groups of breeds.

    The stats you also mention are also inconclusive as they dont take into account the dogs state prior to the attacks. Most dog attacks are perpetrated by abused dogs or ones that are chained up in the front yards of houses for hours on end (in the US). Thats not responsible ownership. Plus the term "pitbull" is freely used to describe a number of different breeds, not a single breed and the US is notorious for mis classifying dogs under the "pitbull" umbrella.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Bodhisopha wrote: »
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_killed_by_dogs_in_the_United_States


    Four fatalities in the US this year, 2 by rottweiler and 2 by pitbull.
    Your clue there is the word "reported" - i.e. fatalities which have made it into the mainstream media such that someone decided to stick it up on wikipedia.

    If there were only 4 fatalities in the US this year, I'd be shocked.


  • Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭cjf


    Check out my 'vicious' dog!! Look at his face!! Thats why I own him. . I get to come home to that face everyday!! He was a rescue an unwanted dog who needed a home and it was love at first sight for me!


  • Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭Morganna


    The only breeds i have ever been bitten by where terriers a chihuaha,and a collies.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Vojera


    cjf wrote: »
    Check out my 'vicious' dog!! Look at his face!! Thats why I own him. . I get to come home to that face everyday!! He was a rescue an unwanted dog who needed a home and it was love at first sight for me!

    He's gorgeous!

    I feel like I'm restating what has already been said, but any rottie or pitbull I've ever had the pleasure of meeting has been a gorgeous, friendly dog, eager to please and in love with their owners. I'm a firm believer that faults with dogs are to do with how they were raised by their owners and I think the reason they're considered so dangerous is that a minority has started using these dogs as a signal of status or for intimidation, training them to snarl and bark and strain against their leads and making them into angry dogs. But any breed would turn out that way if that's how they were reared.


  • Registered Users Posts: 616 ✭✭✭LucyBliss


    cjf wrote: »
    Check out my 'vicious' dog!! Look at his face!! Thats why I own him. . I get to come home to that face everyday!! He was a rescue an unwanted dog who needed a home and it was love at first sight for me!

    Oh noes!! Look at that hat! He's obviously a party dog! I bet he plays loud music all night and leaves empty beer bottles around with absolutely no thought for recycling! How can anyone live with such a monster?!

    In other words, he's adorable!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    I know Rhodesian Ridgebacks are on that list too. It really is a silly list.

    Here is my vicious girl.

    Aged 4 months;
    P1010210.jpg

    And here she is at 12 months:
    DSCF1126.jpg

    DSCF1133.jpg

    Her father:
    Jaegar20front204.jpg

    And her mum:
    picture.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 616 ✭✭✭LucyBliss


    Oh, she is just beautiful! She looks like she's have a good giggle in that third photo. Heh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    She is great fun and brilliant off lead. Loves the sea and swimming.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    Oh wow Bullseye shes fab, they are beautiful dogs, she is just fab. Looks very well bred. :)
    Did you get her from a breeder in Ireland? I know someone who shows and breeds them and she has amazing dogs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    Yeah I got her from a breeder in Ireland. The breeder is based in Antrim. My previous male Ridgeback was also from Antrim different breeder.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,879 ✭✭✭Kya1976


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    Yeah I got her from a breeder in Ireland. The breeder is based in Antrim. My previous male Ridgeback was also from Antrim different breeder.

    Id say Rua might be from the same breeder.
    Do you show her?
    Heading to a dog show in Dundalk on saturday with Rua and Phoenix to meet up with the breeder.
    I'm not into showing though, we are just gonna check out the other RRs:p:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    Kya1976 wrote: »
    Id say Rua might be from the same breeder.
    Do you show her?
    Heading to a dog show in Dundalk on saturday with Rua and Phoenix to meet up with the breeder.
    I'm not into showing though, we are just gonna check out the other RRs:p:)

    Oh is it from the Kennel ROTTZRIDGE?? Jane? If so she has amazing dogs and a lovely person too.
    Im at the show in Dundalk on saturday too, showing my rottweiler:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,879 ✭✭✭Kya1976


    andreac wrote: »
    Oh is it from the Kennel ROTTZRIDGE?? Jane? If so she has amazing dogs and a lovely person too.
    Im at the show in Dundalk on saturday too, showing my rottweiler:)

    Yup thats her:D
    Shes great, and her dogs are stunning. Id highly recommend her to anyone:)
    Ah sweet, might pop over to have a look at the rotties too, might even be in the same ring, 4?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    Oh very good, shes a lovely lady alright, have great craic at the shows with her too, lol.

    No we are in ring 6 so come and say hi if you like. Im in the champion dog class (male). Im the short blonde girl with the rottie,:D


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,179 ✭✭✭FunkZ


    andreac wrote: »
    Oh very good, shes a lovely lady alright, have great craic at the shows with her too, lol.

    No we are in ring 6 so come and say hi if you like. Im in the champion dog class (male). Im the short blonde girl with the rottie,:D

    We'll bring Rua and Phenox (the biggest Ridgeback ever) :D


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