Dublin Bus Network Review

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why? its a normal workday for most of the country

Because the early morning buses were half empty and there were simply far too many buses on the road for the numbers of passengers using them.

KC61

angel01 wrote: »

I have always worked it, just because public service have it off, doesn't mean private companies have it off. If it was a Saturday service or Sunday, I couldn't get to work on time :rolleyes:

Oh yes just because you have it off, means we all do... *sigh*

I also work Christmas Eve and again on the 27th all the way to New Years Eve, just because it doesn't affect you, it will affect others.

I suggested an enhanced Saturday service - i.e. a Saturday service with some extra early morning services.

And I was working on Good Friday.

underthetides

Is Dublin Bus really planning on introducing *more* stops?

I think this is a ridiculous idea - from what I can see from my routes anyway - 37,38,39,70. There are already far too many stops along these routes, and I know I'm not the first person to mention this on these boards before. Stop at Centra and then at Stanhope Street in Stoneybatter. Three stops on Old Cabra Road. Two stops thirty seconds away from each other at Kempton on the Navan Road. Three stops in Dunboyne village alone, and far too many in Castleknock. Even having a stop on Hawkins Street and then on College Green is a bit excessive. Anyone who takes these routes knows the frustration of all these unnecessary stops. It's a nightmare if you're going out to Ongar or Dunboyne at rush hour, granted traffic and general routing plays a major role in these nightmare journeys, but stopping incessantly along the way to let one or two people off at almost every stop is infuriating.

It was my hope that the number of stops would be CUT instead of increased, with this new plan. There's a reason why Xpresso buses are so popular!

dowlingm

If the pubs are going to be allowed serve on Good Friday from here on it think it might be time to ensure a service is maintained :rolleyes:

dynamick

Fintan O'Toole's take on it from the Irish Times on Saturday

Finding a future for Dublin Bus requires more than downsizing

Real-time information, integrated ticketing and more quality bus corridors are needed to improve the network.


Photograph: Cyril Byrne

FINTAN O'TOOLE

Plans to reshape its confusing network of routes and slim down the size of its workforce might benefit Dublin Bus, but it will take a lot more to make it the public transport service the city badly needs

THESE DAYS, misery comes in large packages, from Anglo Irish Bank to volcano dust. But the mundane unhappiness of everyday life tends to be shaped by smaller things. On the level of day-to-day life, the quality of the bus service contributes at least as much as any other factor to the general sum of human content or discontent. Which is why the announcement by Dublin Bus that it is embarking on the biggest ever reconfiguration of its services was greeted by passengers with as much trepidation as excitement.

Dublin Bus was anxious to present its Network Direct project as a good news story. The plan will “provide a route network that is simpler and easier to understand, with more direct, regular, frequent and reliable services”. The plan is to make more use of quality bus corridors (QBCs), combine routes to make the service easier for passengers to understand, and place more emphasis on routes that travel across or around the city. These measures will, the company promises, deliver faster journeys and more frequent buses.

This all sounds wonderful, but Dublin Bus neglected to mention in its press release that the plan also involves taking 90 buses and 150 staff out of service, saving €12 million a year. Essentially, the company is proposing to deliver a better service with fewer resources and less money. This raises the obvious question of whether the plan is a development or a cutback.

There is more...

AlekSmart

A rather good appraisal from Fintan O Toole of the current set of proposed alterations.

Its worth outlining the entire piece as the IT page may be time limited before subscription....

FINTAN O'TOOLE

Plans to reshape its confusing network of routes and slim down the size of its workforce might benefit Dublin Bus, but it will take a lot more to make it the public transport service the city badly needs

THESE DAYS, misery comes in large packages, from Anglo Irish Bank to volcano dust. But the mundane unhappiness of everyday life tends to be shaped by smaller things. On the level of day-to-day life, the quality of the bus service contributes at least as much as any other factor to the general sum of human content or discontent. Which is why the announcement by Dublin Bus that it is embarking on the biggest ever reconfiguration of its services was greeted by passengers with as much trepidation as excitement.

Dublin Bus was anxious to present its Network Direct project as a good news story. The plan will “provide a route network that is simpler and easier to understand, with more direct, regular, frequent and reliable services”. The plan is to make more use of quality bus corridors (QBCs), combine routes to make the service easier for passengers to understand, and place more emphasis on routes that travel across or around the city. These measures will, the company promises, deliver faster journeys and more frequent buses.

This all sounds wonderful, but Dublin Bus neglected to mention in its press release that the plan also involves taking 90 buses and 150 staff out of service, saving €12 million a year. Essentially, the company is proposing to deliver a better service with fewer resources and less money. This raises the obvious question of whether the plan is a development or a cutback.

Until we see how it works in practice, the answer is not at all clear.

There is, of course, no necessary contradiction between downsizing in an organisation and an improvement in the services it provides to its customers. If a company is grossly inefficient, cutting may well make it better. The problem is that Dublin Bus, in spite of all the myths to the contrary, is not a grossly inefficient organisation.

The Network Direct plan is based on a study of Dublin Bus commissioned by the Department of Transport from consultants Deloitte and published early last year. Dublin Bus actually comes quite well out of that report. Its wage and fuel costs were found to be “similar to the industry average in the UK”, where most services have been privatised. Deloitte found that “the scheduling of buses and drivers is generally efficient when compared with international benchmarks”.

And Dublin Bus is vastly easier on the public purse than services in comparable European cities. It gets 29 per cent of its revenue in State subsidies for uncommercial but socially necessary services. The equivalent in Lyon is 79 per cent; Brussels 68 per cent; Amsterdam 62 per cent; Zurich 57 per cent; and London 39 per cent. There is not a great deal of fat to be cut from Dublin Bus.

The Deloitte report did, however, suggest that services could be improved by the kind of reconfiguration that Dublin Bus is now undertaking. It described the current network as “overly complex with a significant amount of service duplication”. It is hard to argue with this contention. Some routes demand an almost Cabbalistic grasp of numerology.

Would-be passengers have to distinguish, for example, between the 15A, 15B, 15E, 15F and 15X or the 40, 40A, 40B, 40C and 40D. Some routes with similar numbers serve very different locations. Conversely, some locations are served by a bewildering variety of routes. A passenger intending to travel to Rathmines, for example, can choose between the 14, 14A, 15, 15A, 15B, 15E, 15F, 18, 65, 65B, 74, 74A, 83, 128, or 142. Somewhat more modestly, Blanchardstown has the 30B, 39, 39A, 39C and 39X.

In itself, therefore, reshaping the network makes complete sense. But there are serious qualifications to this general proposition. One of them is contained within Deloitte’s own conclusion: “a simplified network will provide the majority of existing customers with an easier to use and more regular bus service”.

The majority may benefit, but a minority will have to put up with a worse service. Concentrating routes along the main arteries and QBCs means routing buses away from many estates. Some people, in other words, will have to walk further to a bus stop. Those worst affected will be those with limited mobility, especially the elderly who have a disproportionate dependence on bus services. But Dublin Bus has no incentive to be particularly concerned with these customers: it gets a block grant from the State for free travel for pensioners.

The other reason for hesitation is the broader idea that Dublin Bus can downsize its way out of its current problems. For all sorts of reasons – economic as well as environmental – bus services in Dublin actually need to grow. Shifting people out of cars and on to public transport has been public policy for more than 20 years now. But it has never been pursued with more than half a heart.

The daily number of cars entering the city during the morning rush hours rose from 60,000 in 2005 to 64,000 last year. Bus passenger numbers peaked at 149 million a year in 2004, and have fallen since to below 144 million.

The Siemens European Green Cities Index ranks Dublin last of 30 cities for its transport infrastructure, with half the European average number of people using public transport. Partly because of its dependence on private transport, the city produces almost twice the European average of carbon emissions per head.

DUBLIN TRANSPORT HAS been caught in a Catch 22: the bus service has been slow because of congestion, which causes more people to use their cars, which causes further congestion, which makes the bus service worse. The recession – and the success of QBCs – have now freed up some of that congestion, creating the opportunity for the vicious circle to be turned into a virtuous one.

That won’t happen just by rationalising the network. Real-time information at bus stops, promised by Dublin Bus this year, will have to become a reality. The mirage of integrated ticketing for all public transport services, which has been appearing on the horizon for 15 years now, will have to take corporeal form. (A pilot project is promised for the summer.)

More QBCs will have to be developed. Above all, the idea behind Dublin Bus’s current plans that “less is more” will have to be replaced by a realisation that, in the longer term, more really has to mean more.

All things considered I believe this to be one of the clearest newspaper pieces written to date on where Dublin`s Public Bus Service should be going.

Mr O Toole quite clearly is wary of the PR spin which is almost a given with any major corporate action these days,whether or not that action may be positive in nature.

The fact that the Deloitte Report was commissioned by Minister Noel Dempsey to as a response to "suspicions" he held about the effciency of the CIE Road Passenger operations is of extreme relevance.

It is highly unusual for any "Consultants" report to reach conclusions not agreeable to the general expectation of those who have commissioned it.

However that is exactly what occurred with the Deloitte Report,which was widely expected to be a hatchet job on Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann.

Whilst Dublin Bus did merit attention for it`s percieved failures in terms of route alignment and duplication,its operations most certainly did not ofgfer up the smoking-gun which the reports commissioner might have so dearly wished for.

In the case of Bus Eireann,Minister Dempseys "feeling" that something was seriously awry was proven to be comprehensively wrong,something which at very least merits a Ministerial apology to both BE Staff and Management.

In Dublin Bus`s case there were so many exterior influences,including Departmental maladministration,that even a cursory reading of the executive summary has a positive tinge about it.

Of course poor old Deloitte had to be somewhat circumspect about aspects,such as Fares and Roadside infrastructure which ensured that most references merely consisted of one-liners or side passing issues for another entity to trawl through.

I`m impressed too at some of O Toole`s choice of quotes from Deloitte,in particular the one about the changes benefitting the "majority of Dublin Buses existing customers.

This quote ,of itself,illustrates one of the more unusual omissions of Deloittes report, any references to actually growing the Dublin Bus usership figures.
Of course it is entirely possible that Mr Deloitte may retort,"Well Alek,That was`nt in our brief....we were`nt asked to consider that element".....
I`ll bet they were`nt...not with the Ministerial commissioner of their report sitting on a heap of new PPP Toll Franchises which require one thing for their financial success....lots and lots of PRIVATE Cars passing thru and fro on a daily basis in ever increasing numbers.....conflict of interest...nah could`nt be...in Ireland..?... Never.

Equally the article poses some rather arkward questions for those who espouse to have politically "green" leanings as by now we will see over 200 vehicles mostly of Euro 2 and 3 specification being removed from service with as yet no guarantee of the comprehensive level of Bus Service necessary to woo Private Motorists from their vehicles...as Mr O Toole describes it it`s a green goal being pursued with half-a-heart.


That Carbon Emission comparison for Dublin is surely a hint to any perceptive Politician that the thrust of the Deloitte Report should not be percieved as one demanding fleet withdrawal,but rather instead that the existing fleet be at least maintained and redeployed in a more direct attack on established Private Car commuting patterns..or is that to much of a threat to a vote seeking Minister for Transport living in a commuter townland..?

All I can say is that Fintain O Toole`s article SHOULD stimulate some further discussion on this plan and perhaps shape a few responses to it also ????

dynamick

The Deloitte report clearly blamed political interefernce for the development of a poor route network.

Deloitte Report wrote:

The current bus network has not been significantly redesigned for many years. This is primarily due to a perception that any changes to the existing network will meet public resistance. The result is that the Dublin Bus network has become, in our opinion, overly complex with a significant amount of service duplication....
...Dublin Bus management believe that where changes to the network involve significant service changes, or reduction of service, then significant public and local political resistance may be expected. This public/political resistance has led to past decisions being reversed or altered significantly...
...Going forward, strong political and management leadership will be required if significant improvements are to be made to the efficiency and effectiveness of Dublin‘s bus network.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Of course poor old Deloitte had to be somewhat circumspect about aspects,such as Fares and Roadside infrastructure which ensured that most references merely consisted of one-liners or side passing issues for another entity to trawl through.

They did make this recommendation

Ticketing We recommend an increased move to cashless transactions. This requires a progressive refocusing of the fare structure which aims to increase single fares at a higher rate than pre-paid tickets, making the latter more attractive to users. This will reduce boarding times and engender loyalty to public transport amongst users. This may require full regulation or full deregulation of fares. The current situation whereby only cash fares are regulated shall be changed. A full smart card integrated ticketing system, with electronic purse capability, will significantly assist in implementing such a move. Incentives should be in place to encourage the move away from cash fares. The introduction of 'on street' ticket vending machines at key locations, similar to Luas stops, will further reduce bus dwell times.

AlekSmart wrote:

This quote ,of itself,illustrates one of the more unusual omissions of Deloittes report, any references to actually growing the Dublin Bus usership figures.

Surely it's important to first fix their substandard service and generate more business from existing customers before trying to attract new customers? Deloitte does refer to growing the company.

Deloitte wrote:

We favour optimising the existing network and extracting full value from the existing fleet before considering future fleet expansion. The need for fleet expansion should be reviewed in the future in light of changing external circumstances and internal improvements in efficiency. Examples of external factors are:
 The traffic management plan for Transport 21 city centre Metro and Luas construction may require significant increase in bus modal share.
 Traffic or demand management plans introduced may offer a ‗step change‘ in bus priority thus increasing demand (e.g. bus gate at College Green or introduction of road user charging).

AlekSmart wrote:

Equally the article poses some rather arkward questions for those who espouse to have politically "green" leanings as by now we will see over 200 vehicles mostly of Euro 2 and 3 specification being removed from service with as yet no guarantee of the comprehensive level of Bus Service necessary to woo Private Motorists from their vehicles...as Mr O Toole describes it it`s a green goal being pursued with half-a-heart.

There is nothing green about running empty buses. The aim is not to maximise the fleet or the number of drivers but to maximise the number of bus journeys and the modal split.

Dublin Bus increased its fleet by 25% since 2000 and reduced the number of passengers it carried during this time. This is not a good thing by any measure.

To prove that Dublin Bus is already efficient, Fintan refers to the comparison of European bus subventions made in the report but I think this was a poor comparison. What matters is not the proportion of revenue from subvention but the number of passengers carried and the amount of subvention per journey. On this basis, Dublin comes out about equal with london (50c/journey) but the london service is immeasurably better. Also the subvention comparison doesn't seem to take capital grants into account. So all the free buses that DB get just drop from the sky.

KC61

underthetides wrote: »

Is Dublin Bus really planning on introducing *more* stops?

I think this is a ridiculous idea - from what I can see from my routes anyway - 37,38,39,70. There are already far too many stops along these routes, and I know I'm not the first person to mention this on these boards before. Stop at Centra and then at Stanhope Street in Stoneybatter. Three stops on Old Cabra Road. Two stops thirty seconds away from each other at Kempton on the Navan Road. Three stops in Dunboyne village alone, and far too many in Castleknock. Even having a stop on Hawkins Street and then on College Green is a bit excessive. Anyone who takes these routes knows the frustration of all these unnecessary stops. It's a nightmare if you're going out to Ongar or Dunboyne at rush hour, granted traffic and general routing plays a major role in these nightmare journeys, but stopping incessantly along the way to let one or two people off at almost every stop is infuriating.

It was my hope that the number of stops would be CUT instead of increased, with this new plan. There's a reason why Xpresso buses are so popular!

That has not been suggested anywhere.

Cookie_Monster

"Network Direct"

nice name on it already

Here the page that the data will be released on to today hopefully

Link wrote:

Phase One of the Network Direct project will involve the redesign of services in the Blanchardstown, Lucan and Stillorgan areas and is due to take place in the summer.

Full details of these changes will be available here on Monday 26th April before 12:00hrs.

angel01

underthetides wrote: »

Is Dublin Bus really planning on introducing *more* stops?

I think this is a ridiculous idea - from what I can see from my routes anyway - 37,38,39,70. There are already far too many stops along these routes, and I know I'm not the first person to mention this on these boards before. Stop at Centra and then at Stanhope Street in Stoneybatter. Three stops on Old Cabra Road. Two stops thirty seconds away from each other at Kempton on the Navan Road. Three stops in Dunboyne village alone, and far too many in Castleknock. Even having a stop on Hawkins Street and then on College Green is a bit excessive. Anyone who takes these routes knows the frustration of all these unnecessary stops. It's a nightmare if you're going out to Ongar or Dunboyne at rush hour, granted traffic and general routing plays a major role in these nightmare journeys, but stopping incessantly along the way to let one or two people off at almost every stop is infuriating.

It was my hope that the number of stops would be CUT instead of increased, with this new plan. There's a reason why Xpresso buses are so popular!

Three stops on Cabra road is not excessive, it is a pretty long road and the stops are spaced out adequately..quite a walk from each one of them encompassing a lot of houses between each stop :rolleyes: dont see an issue with the stops either at stoneybatter.

murphaph

angel01 wrote: »

Three stops on Cabra road is not excessive, it is a pretty long road and the stops are spaced out adequately..quite a walk from each one of them encompassing a lot of houses between each stop :rolleyes: dont see an issue with the stops either at stoneybatter.

There are FAR too many stops on the 39 route. It has taken me up to 1.75 hours to get from Clonsilla into town on a 39: outrageously long.

ONE of the problems is indeed too many bus stops. Ever take a 39 around the Hartstown-Hunstown "loop": the bus stops every 300 metres FFS. FAR FAR too many bus stops and a meandering route. Route needs straightening (meaning slightly longer walks to bus stops) and a reduction in the total number of stops. Stops should not generally be closer than 600 or 700 metres apart.

angel01

murphaph wrote: »

There are FAR too many stops on the 39 route. It has taken me up to 1.75 hours to get from Clonsilla into town on a 39: outrageously long.

ONE of the problems is indeed too many bus stops. Ever take a 39 around the Hartstown-Hunstown "loop": the bus stops every 300 metres FFS. FAR FAR too many bus stops and a meandering route. Route needs straightening (meaning slightly longer walks to bus stops) and a reduction in the total number of stops. Stops should not generally be closer than 600 or 700 metres apart.

I am only talking about Cabra Road and Stoneybatter and I don't think there are too many stops. A bus stop should be there for where it is needed and lots of houses are around those stops.

dynamick

Dublin Bus stops are an average of ¼ mile apart. Luas stops are ½ mile apart. DART stations are about 1 mile apart (31 stations in 33 miles).

There are too many bus stops when a 10 mile journey has 40 stops. It makes cross city routes unworkable. I got a 746 from Dun Laoghaire to the airport and it took 2¼ hours - and that was off-peak. Combined with the terrible dwell times because of on-board fares and single door insanity and we have a problem.

KC61

dowlingm wrote: »

If the pubs are going to be allowed serve on Good Friday from here on it think it might be time to ensure a service is maintained :rolleyes:

The introduction of an enhanced Saturday service on Good Friday and between Christmas and the New Year with additional early morning departures would not detract from this.

The fundamental problem is that the morning and evening peak service was way over the top. There were tons of buses arriving into town up to 20 minutes earlier than normal with minimal numbers of passengers on them. It was unreal.

The Saturday schedule weights the service more towards the middle of the day onwards, with more realistic running times for the reduced traffic. If extra buses were to be added on routes where there are not early morning services on Saturdays, then I do think that a more relevant bus service would operate.

Last year, for example, on Good Friday I passed the 19/19a terminus on Jamestown Road at about 0815 and there were eight buses at the terminus. That is nonsensical.

Similarly, something needs to be done about Bank Holidays, where there is a woefully inadequate early morning service. Many people especially those working in the service industries do work on our Bank Holidays, and an enhanced early morning service on each corridor is needed.

murphaph

To be honest, if the network review succeeds in streamlining BAC's route network to bring it into the 21st century, and if the other promises are delivered, then running a full service on a Good Friday etc. should be no big concern. We should be looking forward to the development of the network into something that attracts passengers onto the Bus.

In Berlin, my monthly pass allows me to take my girlfriend with me at weekends and after 8pm mon-fri. I don't need a car here so I don't have one, but my GF needs one for work. We could just use that at the weekends etc. but we tend to use the public transport option as she can go free with me and it allows us to have a drink etc. without worrying about who is going to drive home. This is where public transport in Ireland needs to be heading, so it should end up like here: weekend and public holiday services should be well patronised, not empty.

angel01

KC61 wrote: »

Similarly, something needs to be done about Bank Holidays, where there is a woefully inadequate early morning service. Many people especially those working in the service industries do work on our Bank Holidays, and an enhanced early morning service on each corridor is needed.

I agree about this, If I had to work, I would have to get a taxi There should be more early services for bank holidays, on some routes, the buses don't start till after 9am :eek::eek: and on other ones, it isn't till after midday :eek:

schemingbohemia

angel01 wrote: »

I agree about this, If I had to work, I would have to get a taxi There should be more early services for bank holidays, on some routes, the buses don't start till after 9am :eek::eek: and on other ones, it isn't till after midday :eek:

so let's see, you want all the bus-stops to stay in the same place, increase the services on bank holiday mornings, have no effect whatsoever on your own bus service (which you've failed to identify) - are you prepared to pay more for your bus/luas ticket?

for the review to be of any benefit there will have to be a reduction in the number of bus stops and a streamlining of services which mean that some people will have to walk a bit further for their bus - but that bus should be more reliable and travel quicker into the city.

murphaph

Phase I details now up.

LINK

richardjjd

Edit: Duplicate post

Cookie_Monster

:eek::eek::eek:

Big change on the 63 and 84!


Route On peak off peak
39a 10 mins 10 mins
46a 08 mins 08 mins
47 15 mins 30 mins
63 30 mins 30 mins
84 30 mins 30 mins
145 10 mins 10 mins
746 60 mins 60 mins

good to see increase on the 145, that route has grown exponentially since introduction
It also makes it sound like the 46c & d have gotten the chop, most other routes in the area are mentioned in the link, if not shown, but these are completely ignored...
Edit: Also not bypassing Stillorgan village :mad: This surely should have been the obvious point! adds at least 5-10 mins onto every journey, opportunity missed I think.


edit: not familiar enough with the other areas to offer comment

stop

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek:

Big change on the 63 and 84!

My first reaction too! Christ...

Sulmac

Great idea to extend the 145 to Heuston Station, it'll be heavily used on Fridays and Sundays by UCD students.

murphaph

Lol, they've done what I suggested with the 39 and routed it down the Ongar Distributor road and straight out onto the bypass. Good job, no more faffing about trying to get through the SC.

Can someone clarify if the Snugborough Road Extension has had bus lanes applied to it yet? It was the stated aim of FCC.

Seems like DB are serious enough here with this review. The 39 no longer goes around the "hartstown loop", this now being served by the 37 if I'm reading the schematic properly.

Couple of dissappointing things from my perspective:
naming stops after businesses! They should have learned their leason from the "City Swift" carry on that bus stops should have permanent names that relate strictly to street names. Secondly, how come the schematic shows the 17a terminus as Dennis Mahony instead of the feckin DART! That's really poor and I hope the network maps don't replicate this whenever they're published!

Overall though, very positive clockface services and clearly more use of QBC and less congested roadspace, allowing a genuinely reliable bus service, I hope!

schemingbohemia

have to say it looks good generally but as cookie monster says going into stillorgan village rather than staying on the N11 seems to be at odds with the general thrust of the changes particularly in light of the fact that the opposite is being done with monkstown farm where it seems to be skipped out which makes a lot of sense.

KC61

murphaph wrote: »

Lol, they've done what I suggested with the 39 and routed it down the Ongar Distributor road and straight out onto the bypass. Good job, no more faffing about trying to get through the SC.

Can someone clarify if the Snugborough Road Extension has had bus lanes applied to it yet? It was the stated aim of FCC.

Seems like DB are serious enough here with this review. The 39 no longer goes around the "hartstown loop", this now being served by the 37 if I'm reading the schematic properly.

The 39/39a serve Hartstown Road per the spider map - I read that as still going around the loop.

Cool Mo D

Some good changes - 145 to Heuston will be handy. Good to see the new 17a - one of the first frequent cross-city services, with an expanded route. It looks like better use of the bus lane on the Chapelizod bypass, with a 10 off peak service between the 25a and 25b.
Looks like the end of buses terminating at Hawkins street too!

There also seems to some big cuts to the 84 and 63 route length, but much better frequencies, not sure how people will feel about that. Also, the 46e is mentioned on the Stillorgan map, but no frequency mentioned?

Alun

"Route 145 will operate direct through Bray Main Street with a time saving of approximately 10 minutes."

It already does, well the majority of them do anyway, apart from the odd one that goes via the station. I assume that they mean that they will no longer go via the station, where they previously changed drivers, so where will they change now?

I'm a bit surprised they didn't remove the dog-leg where it deviates off Killarney Road to go down Herbert Road for just one junction, not that I'm really complaining since it now virtually goes right past the end of my road, but an extra 8 or 9 mins walk wouldn't have killed me

markpb

murphaph wrote: »

Secondly, how come the schematic shows the 17a terminus as Dennis Mahony instead of the feckin DART!

The terminal *is* Dennis Mahony - the bus doesn't go into the Dart station car park. A Dublin councillor emailed me this back in '06 when I queried it:

I was asking him (John McBride, DB Development manager) in relation to stopping at the Dart station instead of in the Industrial Estate. I didn't get a clear answer, though I take it it is about the turning circle there. There is some problem but he didn't express what it is. Dublin Bus and Irish Rail are to come to an Area Cttee meeting soon, so I'll bring it up again there, if not before. It seems Irish Rail didn't get any planning permission from Fingal for Howth Junction Station.

KC61

schemingbohemia wrote: »

have to say it looks good generally but as cookie monster says going into stillorgan village rather than staying on the N11 seems to be at odds with the general thrust of the changes particularly in light of the fact that the opposite is being done with monkstown farm where it seems to be skipped out which makes a lot of sense.

Something tells me that is a mistake. The spider map is using the stage points from the timetables. The current 145 timetable shows Stillorgan S.C. as a stage point, but it operates via the main road.

I suspect that the current situation will prevail, i.e. the 145 via the Main Road all day and everything else at peak hour.

Something also tells me that a second error is that the 84 will not terminate at Lord Meaths Gate either as this is the outer point of normal stages and where the outer suburban fares kick in. I suspect that it will go onto Newcastle.

Cookie_Monster

Wilton Terrace - Leeson Street

looks like becoming a pretty busy terminus now too.

Does this mean more buses down St Stephan green, as the lights there and on Leeson St do the buses no favours at all. Hopefully this was looked at with DCC and will see some more priority given outbound at least