Dublin Bus Network Review

murphaph

KC61 wrote: »

The 39/39a serve Hartstown Road per the spider map - I read that as still going around the loop.

Hmmm, maybe you're right but they night have the Shelerin Road confused with the Hartstown Road there, hard to tell. There appears to be an obvious loop on the map though, which the 39 does not enter. I think I have it right, and the 39(a) will bypass the loop, leaving it to be served by the 37 etc. but we'll see.

markpb

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Does this mean more buses down St Stephan green, as the lights there and on Leeson St do the buses no favours at all. Hopefully this was looked at with DCC and will see some more priority given outbound at least

There was a plan (once upon a time) to add a second outbound lane to SSG-East so buses turning left onto Leeson St wouldn't block buses going straight onto Earlsfort Terrace.

Cookie_Monster

markpb wrote: »

There was a plan (once upon a time) to add a second outbound lane to SSG-East so buses turning left onto Leeson St wouldn't block buses going straight onto Earlsfort Terrace.

I find its generally the other way round as the left turn light is on for a lot longer than the straight ahead one. Either way hopefully this will be addressed as it would make quite a difference at rush hour

KD345

These changes are very impressive, especially the 145 to Heuston, the 46A to Phoenix Park and the 39A to Belfield. All with great frequency, all day.

The use of Chapelizod Bypass will be of great benefit to Lucan commuters on the 25A and 25B. Nice to see all the 67s now running to Maynooth with a 30 min frequency. The 26 now runs through Ballyfermot which will provide a fast link to the city instead of the 78A.

I'm a bit surprised at the 63 and 84, but once the Luas is extended it will be a nice link to North Wicklow.

KC61

Interesting move to merge the 47 and 46b too.

Cookie_Monster

KD345 wrote: »

I'm a bit surprised at the 63 and 84, but once the Luas is extended it will be a nice link to North Wicklow.

the problem is they will change the route well in advance of the Luas. 84 due to change in the summer - -as its put of the DB site. Luas due to arrive end 2010. thats a good chunk of time where the 84 terminus is in the middle of nowhere for most people.

I would hope a decent terminus is put in place at the Cherrywood stop for both the 84 and 7.

KD345

One thing which is strange is that the 26 is now more of a service for Ballyfermot than Palmerstown. Would it not be better to run the 26 a few more stop up to Palmerstown Cemetery?

KC61

Alun wrote: »

"Route 145 will operate direct through Bray Main Street with a time saving of approximately 10 minutes."

It already does, well the majority of them do anyway, apart from the odd one that goes via the station. I assume that they mean that they will no longer go via the station, where they previously changed drivers, so where will they change now?

I'm a bit surprised they didn't remove the dog-leg where it deviates off Killarney Road to go down Herbert Road for just one junction, not that I'm really complaining since it now virtually goes right past the end of my road, but an extra 8 or 9 mins walk wouldn't have killed me

That diversion meant that for inbound buses there was frequently a 20 minute gap before two buses came together - its elimination is a huge improvement!

etchyed

As predicted earlier in the thread, 39a extended to Belfield, 46a extended to Phoenix Park. But no mention on the website of the 10's demise. I'm sure the 39a will provide the same level of service so why not just be upfront about it?

KC61

KD345 wrote: »

One thing which is strange is that the 26 is now more of a service for Ballyfermot than Palmerstown. Would it not be better to run the 26 a few more stop up to Palmerstown Cemetery?

That is where I think the terminus will be.

Cookie_Monster

etchyed wrote: »

As predicted earlier in the thread, 39a extended to Belfield, 46a extended to Phoenix Park. But no mention on the website of the 10's demise. I'm sure the 39a will provide the same level of service so why not just be upfront about it?

Indeed. Didn't think of that when first looking at it. I wonder what thats about, if Phase one will see these increase and in phase 2 the 10 knocked off once the routes have been in place for a while and people used to them

markpb

Overall it seems quite positive. Moving the Lucan and Blanch terminii to Wilton Terrace is a great idea (and should make the city centre a lot more pleasant). Extending the 17a to Blanchardstown makes a lot of sense. Merging the 46b and 47 is a good move (even though it negatively affects me).

The thing that strikes me is that there's been no effort to link Sandyford to the Dart. Considering the number of people who commute from across the city, beefing up the 114 seems obvious.

thomasj

murphaph wrote: »

Hmmm, maybe you're right but they night have the Shelerin Road confused with the Hartstown Road there, hard to tell. There appears to be an obvious loop on the map though, which the 39 does not enter. I think I have it right, and the 39(a) will bypass the loop, leaving it to be served by the 37 etc. but we'll see.

the news item does state faster times to city centre from hartstown and huntstown so i would say both 39 and 39a will use the loop.

The 39 seems to be the new 39a in that it will not serve blanchardstown village. Great to have an off peak frequency for that route of 20 minutes

Also interesting to see manorfields, latchford and hazelbury come into the fold.

Wonder how the 37 managed to get the extension to the centre?

KC61

Using the stages as the basis for these maps does create a few problems...

Do the 39/39a serve the Blanchardstown Shopping Centre? This was not a stage point before and that is not at all clear from the map! One of them has to otherwise a huge swathe of Clonsilla has no link to the shopping centre.

Also it is not clear which operates via New Ongar Road and which via Clonsilla village or do they both go via New Ongar Road?

Also do both the 70 and 270 serve Littlepace?

etchyed

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Indeed. Didn't think of that when first looking at it. I wonder what thats about, if Phase one will see these increase and in phase 2 the 10 knocked off once the routes have been in place for a while and people used to them

Nah, that would be doubling the frequency and then halving it again after a few months. They wouldn't try to get away with that. And the 10 is missing from the Stillorgan map.

They don't even have to phrase it negatively; e.g. "Route 10 will be replaced by Route 39a to the city centre with onward service to Blanchardstown. The 46a will now serve Phoenix Park". It's really not a bad news story for DB so I assume its omission is just an accident. Neglecting to explain this means people will suspect there's some negative reason for it. If it's not an accident then DB are showing a serious lack of balls at a very early stage.

richardjjd

It looks sensible: the introduction of the 270 (Tyrrelstown-Blanchardstown-Dunboyne) is a good one. The 38c (City Centre - Tyrrelstown via Blanchardstown Hospital, Corduff) appears to have been cancelled - no loss with the 270s expansion. Any changes to the 40D (which wanders its way from Tyrrelstown to Parnell St via various corporate parks and Finglas)?


[You can tell from this post where I live ...]

loyatemu

good move on the 84 - it was providing a rubbish service between Bray and town and pointlessly duplicating the 145 - this will mean better frequency for Kilcoole commuters (I'd previously argued it should become a local Kilcoole-Bray service, but running it onto Cherrywood also makes sense).

With the 84 and the Greystones DART service now both running half-hourly, perhaps some effort could be made to align them? I often alight from the Dart @ Greystones and see 84s and 184s pulling away from the station... would make sense to attempt some integration for Kilcoole passengers @ Greystones rather than @ Bray.

KC61

richardjjd wrote: »

It looks sensible: the introduction of the 270 (Tyrrelstown-Blanchardstown-Dunboyne) is a good one. The 38c (City Centre - Tyrrelstown via Blanchardstown Hospital, Corduff) appears to have been cancelled - no loss with the 270s expansion. Any changes to the 40D (which wanders its way from Tyrrelstown to Parnell St via various corporate parks and Finglas)?


[You can tell from this post where I live ...]

I suspect that the 40D will be unchanged - it is from the Finglas corridor so is not changing in phase 1.

Stevek101

When is the next stage due?

Cookie_Monster

loyatemu wrote: »

good move on the 84 - it was providing a rubbish service between Bray and town and pointlessly duplicating the 145 - this will mean better frequency for Kilcoole commuters (I'd previously argued it should become a local Kilcoole-Bray service, but running it onto Cherrywood also makes sense).

With the 84 and the Greystones DART service now both running half-hourly, perhaps some effort could be made to align them? I often alight from the Dart @ Greystones and see 84s and 184s pulling away from the station... would make sense to attempt some integration for Kilcoole passengers @ Greystones rather than @ Bray.

thats all well and good but Kilcoole to the CC is now at best a two stage journey for commuters, either 84 + 145 or 84 + luas in future, making it more expensive and invariably longer unless bus times are aligned to account for and 84 arriving to a 145 stop to transfer.

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

thats all well and good but Kilcoole to the CC is now at best a two stage journey for commuters, either 84 + 145 or 84 + luas in future, making it more expensive and invariably longer unless bus times are aligned to account for and 84 arriving to a 145 stop to transfer.

Of course it is not more expensive if you use a Travel 90 smartcard - it remains EUR 1.80!

Ham'nd'egger

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

thats all well and good but Kilcoole to the CC is now at best a two stage journey for commuters, either 84 + 145 or 84 + luas in future, making it more expensive and invariably longer unless bus times are aligned to account for and 84 arriving to a 145 stop to transfer.

It makes more sense to run it to Cherrywood as it will link you to either the DART in Bray, the 145 or the LUAS which are three higher speed higher frequency routes into the city centre. I suspect that many of the passengers on the 84 would be on it for shorter spins overall.

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

Not if you use a Travel 90 smartcard - it remains EUR 1.80!

I thinks its fair to say that quite a high % of passengers still use cash though and will be caught out by this.

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I thinks its fair to say that quite a high % of passengers still use cash though and will be caught out by this.

That's where a re-eductation process is needed!

Cookie_Monster

Hamndegger wrote: »

It makes more sense to run it to Cherrywood as it will link you to either the DART in Bray, the 145 or the LUAS which are three higher speed higher frequency routes into the city centre. I suspect that many of the passengers on the 84 would be on it for shorter spins overall.

my point is though once you get an 84 these days its much quicker to the CC than any other bus route as its not as popular with people further in, they'd rather wait for a 145 or 46a, letting you sail by

I think its probably a good long term move to change it, but see quite a bit of protest from the people of Greystones etc in the short term. The delays outbound from town are likely to be bigger if you just miss an 84 from the Cherrywood or Bray due to the lower frequency compared tot he 145 or Luas.

What about the 63, do the areas served by that have a direct link to town anymore if its gone, I know it was a realitivly lightly used service anyway... any indication whether it will pull into The Park in Carrickmines now, map doesn't show it. also look to be using this service to cover the farm now that the 46a is gone from there.

KC61 wrote: »

That's where a re-eductation process is needed!

hopefully this will be part of the marketing surrounding the re-branding as such

KD345

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

hopefully this will be part of the marketing surrounding the re-branding as such

There has already been good marketing of the prepaid options. Some people will always pay cash, but maybe now they'll consider the prepaid options.

Bear in mind, Kilcoole and Newcastle are on the Outer Suburban Fare Scheme, so I would imagine most bus passengers from these areas are well aware of the benefits of using prepaid tickets.

Ham'nd'egger

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

my point is though once you get an 84 these days its much quicker to the CC than any other bus route as its not as popular with people further in, they'd rather wait for a 145 or 46a, letting you sail by

Point taken and accepted. The thinking is that you can get an 84 that is allowed 2 hours for a run into town or you can hop onto a 145 with empty seats that runs anyway and the 84 does 4 local runs; this should give the 84 better service locally and get people in and out quicker albeit with a bus change.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I think its probably a good long term move to change it, but see quite a bit of protest from the people of Greystones etc in the short term. The delays outbound from town are likely to be bigger if you just miss an 84 from the Cherrywood or Bray due to the lower frequency compared tot he 145 or Luas.

Again, if it give you more local services that can get you into and out of town then it's better overall for the Greystones/Kilcoole area than one service an hour.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

What about the 63, do the areas served by that have a direct link to town anymore if its gone, I know it was a realitivly lightly used service anyway... any indication whether it will pull into The Park in Carrickmines now, map doesn't show it. also look to be using this service to cover the farm now that the 46a is gone from there.

They have the 44 at Kilternan that it meets before it travels around Carrickmines to the N 11. It will cross the LUAS extension so instead of a bi hourly city service it will become a twice hourly bus/LUAS/DART feeder that links it with Dun Laoghaire and Cournelscourt SC, something that area can well do with. There is a lot of new residential units in that area the last 10 years which badly need some level of bus service.

loyatemu

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I think its probably a good long term move to change it, but see quite a bit of protest from the people of Greystones etc in the short term.

only a serious masochist would get the 84 all the way from Kilcoole or Greystones to town - it gets snared up in Bray & Shankill, it diverts into Cabinteely and Stillorgan villages, it goes down Anglesea Rd, and on the way out of town it has a wait point at Bray Dart where it often sits for 20 mins+.

Its also very infrequent as a direct result of its lengthy running time - with the new routing the same number of buses can operate more frequently. (The 84X will (presumably) still be available at peak times.)

Ham'nd'egger

KD345 wrote: »

There has already been good marketing of the prepaid options. Some people will always pay cash, but maybe now they'll consider the prepaid options.

Bear in mind, Kilcoole and Newcastle are on the Outer Suburban Fare Scheme, so I would imagine most bus passengers from these areas are well aware of the benefits of using prepaid tickets.

Cashless tickets are the way to go but we all know who has put the kaboosh on that for years now.

KD345

Is there a reason why the 26 travels up John's Road, but then loops around onto South Circular Road to travel back down to Islandbridge? Wouldn't it be simpler to just use Conyngham Road?