Dublin Bus Network Review

Aard

The details of Phase I seem well thought-out, and forward-thinking. Dublin Bus are clearly favouring the "hub-and-spoke" model, rather than "point-to-point". This will make people think differently of the network as a whole. ATM, what with the lack of integrated-ticketing, lack of a CC Luas connection, and only one Dart line, most people I come across think about how to get from A to B in only one vehicle. God forbid a transfer has to be made! Now with regular, higher-frequency local and orbital services, people will think differently about how to get around the city.

As previously mentioned, it will also encourage/force people to use the T90 cards to make the transfer. This will be good "training" for when integrated-ticketing does come in. The result is cheaper transport, quicker boarding, and generally less confusion.

munchkin_utd

One thing that strikes me about the route maps is the near complete non existence of highlighting connections to other modes of transport.
On the Blanchardstown map there isnt one mention of a Suburban train or Luas, despite the fact that theres a number of stations served by busses in the Suburbs and city centre.

Obviously the bus from distant outer suburbs right to the city centre is the mode of choice for the discerning traveller (with time on his hands for a 90min + journey) but surely public transport as a whole will only succeed if train tram and bus work together to give an alternative to travelling by car from your front door to your workplace/ shopping districts.

murphaph

KC61 wrote: »

So perhaps extend the 66b from its current terminus via Celbridge, and then route back over the link road to Intel and then out to Maynooth?

There would probably be considerable merit in that.

It could also give an all day service to St Wolstans.

I think the problem is that Celbridge Main Street and approaches have absolutely no bus priority measures, so the 67 and any extended 66b are going to run into timetable problems unless KCC just bite the bullet and get rid of the on street parking from the bridge to the gates to Castletown House at least and install bus lanes on both sides. The room is there I'm sure: Celbridge Main St is really quite wide. In the future though the more logical extension of the 66B is on to Hazelhatch Station through Primrose Gate or whatever that estate with the new road is called. Having routes double back on themselves is a bit of a retrograde step but this wouldn't be.

JHMEG

KD345 wrote: »

The increase on the 67 means a 30 minute frequency all day to Maynooth. That's more than what is currently offered with the 67A.

Does the 66 not link Leixlip and Maynooth?

I presumed (maybe incorrectly) that the 67A was being dropped, since there is no mention of it on the new maps. The 67 doesn't connect Maynooth and Celbridge.

The 66 does connect Maynooth and Leixlip (as does the train), but I was referring to Leixlip and Celbridge having no link despite Celbridge being amost a dormitory town of Leixlip.

KC61 wrote:

So perhaps extend the 66b from its current terminus via Celbridge

Sounds like it might work. It would be nice to be able to get to Hazelhatch station from Leixlip too, and maybe it could be incorporated. Afaik despite being in the middle of the countryside Hazelhatch has no bus service.

KC61

The Stillorgan map has now been updated to reflect that the 84 goes to/from Newcastle.

KC61

JHMEG wrote: »

I presumed (maybe incorrectly) that the 67A was being dropped, since there is no mention of it on the new maps. The 67 doesn't connect Maynooth and Celbridge.

The 66 does connect Maynooth and Leixlip (as does the train), but I was referring to Leixlip and Celbridge having no link despite Celbridge being amost a dormitory town of Leixlip.


Sounds like it might work. It would be nice to be able to get to Hazelhatch station from Leixlip too, and maybe it could be incorporated. Afaik despite being in the middle of the countryside Hazelhatch has no bus service.

I would read it that the 67 and 67a are being combined into a single route 67 with all services going to Maynooth (Moyglare Road). Therefore the service between Celbridge and Maynooth would significantly increase, however the numbers of buses between the city centre and Celbridge may stay the same.

KC61

JHMEG wrote: »

It would be nice to be able to get to Hazelhatch station from Leixlip too, and maybe it could be incorporated. Afaik despite being in the middle of the countryside Hazelhatch has no bus service.

There is a feeder bus between the Salesian College in Celbridge and the Hazelhatch rail station for certain trains, but as you point out none to either of the big plants in Leixlip.

KC61

murphaph wrote: »

I think the problem is that Celbridge Main Street and approaches have absolutely no bus priority measures, so the 67 and any extended 66b are going to run into timetable problems unless KCC just bite the bullet and get rid of the on street parking from the bridge to the gates to Castletown House at least and install bus lanes on both sides. The room is there I'm sure: Celbridge Main St is really quite wide. In the future though the more logical extension of the 66B is on to Hazelhatch Station through Primrose Gate or whatever that estate with the new road is called. Having routes double back on themselves is a bit of a retrograde step but this wouldn't be.

I was suggesting that rather than go via the Main Street and Castletown gate, that the 66b would go left off the bridge and around by St Wolstans.

This area only has a few 67X buses serving it.

KD345

JHMEG wrote: »

The 67 doesn't connect Maynooth and Celbridge.

From dublinbus.ie

Route 67 will be extended to Moyglare Road

Dyr

Aard wrote: »

As previously mentioned, it will also encourage/force people to use the T90 cards to make the transfer. This will be good "training" for when integrated-ticketing does come in. The result is cheaper transport, quicker boarding, and generally less confusion.

and people being forced to do things is good :rolleyes:. Integrated transport does not work here because it's only as strong as it's weakest link..in this case dublin bus. I am not getting off one transport unit to stand at a bus stop for 15 minutes and then being packed onto it like a sardine because it's halfway though its journey..thanks all the same.

Maybe we should force/encourage dublin bus to get it's reliability issues sorted before they start rolling out any plan that's utterly reliant on a reliable service.

JHMEG

KC61 wrote: »

I would read it that the 67 and 67a are being combined into a single route 67 with all services going to Maynooth (Moyglare Road).

I'm not familiar with that part of Maynooth so I had missed that bit.

JHMEG

KC61 wrote: »

There is a feeder bus between the Salesian College in Celbridge and the Hazelhatch rail station for certain trains, but as you point out none to either of the big plants in Leixlip.

Probably not much demand, but my brother was looking to work in Naas while living in Leixlip. Car was the only choice despite both having rail stations, buses etc.

angel01

Bambi wrote: »

and people being forced to do things is good :rolleyes:. Integrated transport does not work here because it's only as strong as it's weakest link..in this case dublin bus. I am not getting off one transport unit to stand at a bus stop for 15 minutes and then being packed onto it like a sardine because it's halfway though its journey..thanks all the same.

Maybe we should force/encourage dublin bus to get it's reliability issues sorted before they start rolling out any plan that's utterly reliant on a reliable service.

You are lucky you can be so choosy, others are not so lucky. A lot of people have to do exactly that, get a multitude of different buses and/or trains and/or luas.

stop

Am I wrong to be suspicious that the 45 is not included on the Stillorgan map? I know other nearby routes are omitted (4,7 etc) but can't help but wonder!

Heres an idea - with the Lucan buses no longer using their Pearse St Termini, will the 4/4a/7 be handed these stops to bridge the huge gap between the other Pearse St stop and Upper O'Connell St?

KD345

Bambi wrote: »

and people being forced to do things is good :rolleyes:. Integrated transport does not work here because it's only as strong as it's weakest link..in this case dublin bus. I am not getting off one transport unit to stand at a bus stop for 15 minutes and then being packed onto it like a sardine because it's halfway though its journey..thanks all the same.

Maybe we should force/encourage dublin bus to get it's reliability issues sorted before they start rolling out any plan that's utterly reliant on a reliable service.

Surely this new plan is addressing these issues. These changes will now mean less people will be getting off a bus to change, as their route will now be running further across the city. For those who do need to change, they will have to wait no more than 5 minutes because their corridor (Blanchardstown/Stillorgan QBC) will have an enhanced service.

For example, the only two routes which are being cut short on the Stillorgan project are the 63 and 84 which will now link people to a high frequency QBC and a Luas.

This Transport Direct plan, coupled with the Real Time Passenger Information, will make waiting for a bus a lot less frustrating.

Pigwidgeon

I don't see the positive in only having the 84 to cherrywood, this means apart from peak times, there is no direct bus route from greystones/newcastle/kilcoole to the city centre. Yes there is the dart, but that does not suit a lot of the places the 84 served. It is a lot more awkward getting 2 buses than 1. I think the route should have been kept the same with more frequency, as I'm rarely on an empty 84.

murphaph

Bambi wrote: »

Maybe we should force/encourage dublin bus to get it's reliability issues sorted before they start rolling out any plan that's utterly reliant on a reliable service.

That's what they are trying to do by routing more buses along QBCs and bus lanes and avoiding snarl up points as far as possible.

This is the most proactive thing I've ever seen CIE attempt. It is not perfect but it's a huge milestone.

Cookie_Monster

stop wrote: »

Am I wrong to be suspicious that the 45 is not included on the Stillorgan map? I know other nearby routes are omitted (4,7 etc) but can't help but wonder!

Heres an idea - with the Lucan buses no longer using their Pearse St Termini, will the 4/4a/7 be handed these stops to bridge the huge gap between the other Pearse St stop and Upper O'Connell St?

I would imagine these will be addressed seperatly in a later phase centering around a blackrock / Dun Laoghaire map & routes

KC61

stop wrote: »

Am I wrong to be suspicious that the 45 is not included on the Stillorgan map? I know other nearby routes are omitted (4,7 etc) but can't help but wonder!

Heres an idea - with the Lucan buses no longer using their Pearse St Termini, will the 4/4a/7 be handed these stops to bridge the huge gap between the other Pearse St stop and Upper O'Connell St?

They will presumably fall under the Rock Road QBC review.

Re Pearse Street, that would definitely be a good idea!

loyatemu

kateos2 wrote: »

I don't see the positive in only having the 84 to cherrywood, this means apart from peak times, there is no direct bus route from greystones/newcastle/kilcoole to the city centre. Yes there is the dart, but that does not suit a lot of the places the 84 served. It is a lot more awkward getting 2 buses than 1. I think the route should have been kept the same with more frequency, as I'm rarely on an empty 84.

how many people go the full distance though? A more frequent 84 + a more frequent 145 will actually mean more travel options and (possibly) reduced travel times. There are some locations that will become more difficult to get to, but IMO the existing 84 is a terrible service.

stop wrote:

Am I wrong to be suspicious that the 45 is not included on the Stillorgan map? I know other nearby routes are omitted (4,7 etc) but can't help but wonder!

I was wondering the same thing - its another fairly inefficient outdated route, though probably not as bad as the 84 (there was some furore when it was cut back recently).

KC61

Bambi wrote: »

and people being forced to do things is good :rolleyes:. Integrated transport does not work here because it's only as strong as it's weakest link..in this case dublin bus. I am not getting off one transport unit to stand at a bus stop for 15 minutes and then being packed onto it like a sardine because it's halfway though its journey..thanks all the same.

Maybe we should force/encourage dublin bus to get it's reliability issues sorted before they start rolling out any plan that's utterly reliant on a reliable service.

This review is addressing that.

For example, all 145 services will now operate via the Main Street in Bray rather than some operating via Bray Station. This should result in an even headway on the route rather than the mix of buses that's currently there.

By co-ordinating the timetables on each corridor there should be an end to three buses leaving termini simultaneously and then a gap until the next one. The 25/25a/25b/26/66/66a/66b/67 should hopefully be timetabled as one block of routes.

Cool Mo D

When they say 'area' they seem to mean QBC/ arterial route. They've announced the N4, N3 and N11 proposals, so what have they left to do:

Rock Road,
Rathmines/Ranelagh/Clonskeagh road
N81/Terenure/Tallaght
Crumlin Road
N2/Finglas
Ballymun road
Swords Road
Malahide Road
Howth Road

Is this about right?

Pigwidgeon

loyatemu wrote: »

how many people go the full distance though? A more frequent 84 + a more frequent 145 will actually mean more travel options and (possibly) reduced travel times. There are some locations that will become more difficult to get to, but IMO the existing 84 is a terrible service.

Oh I'm not saying it's a good service, it's terrible and has gotten worse and less reliable the last few months.
I'm not sure about going the whole way, but there is quite a large number of people who would get it as far as UCD anyway.

cleveland browne

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Indeed. Didn't think of that when first looking at it. I wonder what thats about, if Phase one will see these increase and in phase 2 the 10 knocked off once the routes have been in place for a while and people used to them

No the 10 will cease to exist the day the 39 runs to belfield and the 46a runs to Infirmary Road. The 10 will not run in conjunction with these at any stage.

KD345

kateos2 wrote: »

Oh I'm not saying it's a good service, it's terrible and has gotten worse and less reliable the last few months.
I'm not sure about going the whole way, but there is quite a large number of people who would get it as far as UCD anyway.

But they can still get to UCD. In fact, they will wait less time for a bus now and get there quicker. They might have to swap bus half way, but personally I'd prefer a 30 minute all day frequency on the 84 linking me to a high frequency direct bus route like the 145, rather than wait up to 90 minutes, and have to go through Cabinteely, Stillorgan, Ballsbridge etc.

KC61

Cool Mo D wrote: »

When they say 'area' they seem to mean QBC/ arterial route. They've announced the N4, N3 and N11 proposals, so what have they left to do:

Rock Road,
Rathmines/Ranelagh/Clonskeagh road
N81/Terenure/Tallaght
Crumlin Road
N2/Finglas
Ballymun road
Swords Road
Malahide Road
Howth Road

Is this about right?

I would read the corridors as being broadly:

Rock Road
Stillorgan
Ranelagh
Templeogue/Tallaght (via Rathmines)
Rathfarnham (via Harolds X)
Tallaght (via Crumlin)
South Clondalkin QBC (via Crumlin)
Naas Road
Ballyfermot (North Clondalkin)
Lucan
Blanchardstown
Finglas
Ballymun
Swords
Malahide Road
Howth Road

There are also the orbital services.

cleveland browne

Cool Mo D wrote: »

When they say 'area' they seem to mean QBC/ arterial route. They've announced the N4, N3 and N11 proposals, so what have they left to do:

Rock Road,
Rathmines/Ranelagh/Clonskeagh road
N81/Terenure/Tallaght
Crumlin Road
N2/Finglas
Ballymun road
Swords Road
Malahide Road
Howth Road

Is this about right?

If you look at the list of routes i posted on the first page you can kind of work out the phases.

The Malahide road is probably going to be in a phase with the N81/Tallaght/Terenure/ Crumlin Road

The 27/77 route is going to operate from Edenmore(old 28 terminus) to Ballyfermot.

Stevek101

Cleveland any idea of the announcement of that phase? Sounds like it'll be even more dramatic than this.

Cookie_Monster

cleveland browne wrote: »

No the 10 will cease to exist the day the 39 runs to belfield and the 46a runs to Infirmary Road. The 10 will not run in conjunction with these at any stage.

any reason they fail to mention this withdrawal in the release today?

schemingbohemia

Optics? The Herald or Indo would use it to have a headline "Historic Number 10 route consigned to History" and some old tripe about the death of old ireland......