Dublin Bus Network Review

Ham'nd'egger

KD345 wrote: »

Is there a reason why the 26 travels up John's Road, but then loops around onto South Circular Road to travel back down to Islandbridge? Wouldn't it be simpler to just use Conyngham Road?

It says that the 26 will serve Ballyfermot so it may be routed via Sarsfield Road and not Conygham Road or it could just link up to Heuston. It is still a proposed routing so it is liable to change.

KD345

Hamndegger wrote: »

It says that the 26 will serve Ballyfermot so it may be routed via Sarsfield Road and not Conygham Road or it could just link up to Heuston. It is still a proposed routing so it is liable to change.

True, it could still change. Although I reckon they will want to keep it serving Chapelizod.

Cookie_Monster

Now that i've looked at all of the links and route, it actually strike me that its quite a small enough number of changes (big impact, for sure)

How many phases do you reckon there will be? I would be under the impression that there'd be changes to at least 40-50% of routes, be it route itself or at least timetable.

dynamick

Stillorgan proposed route map is brilliant.

• Monkstown ring road used by new new 46E service
• Regular service from Bellarmine to city via sandyford ind est
• Monkstown Farm and Stillorgan shopping centre diversions dropped by most buses
• 46A now goes to the zoo
• 145 to Heuston station makes a lot of onward rail journeys feasible
• Blanchardstown to UCD!

Just three things:

• No link between Sandyford Industrial and Dun Laoghaire or Blackrock
• No link between Cherrywood and Dun Laoghaire or Blackrock
• No frequency listed for 46E (Blackrock-Mountjoy Square via N11)

noelfirl

Having the 25a/b use the Lucan bypass is a God-send in terms of the Chapelizod pinch point in the morning, although they could have gone further and routed maybe the 67 via the bypass as well, how much further of an impact on the service through Chapelizod it would have had, I don't know, but I suspect not a huge detriment. In theory having the 26 going via Kylemore might cut out some of the delay going down by the West County hotel, but with the caveat of an increased time going through Ballyfermot. EDIT: And when they say this is all 'proposed', does this mean all these changes will have to Dempsey-stamped too? I can see the put-out people going to their local TD and screwing with some of the changes if that's the case.

Cookie_Monster

dynamick wrote: »

No link between Cherrywood and Dun Laoghaire or Blackrock

eh, apart from the 7, one of the more frequent buses in Dublin.

KC61

dynamick wrote: »

Just three things:

• No link between Sandyford Industrial and Dun Laoghaire or Blackrock
• No link between Cherrywood and Dun Laoghaire or Blackrock
• No frequency listed for 46E (Blackrock-Mountjoy Square via N11)

Sandyford and Blackrock remain linked by the 114.

Cherrywood remains linked to Dun Laoghaire and Blackrock by the 7 and also the 45 to Blackrock.

KC61

I have to say that looking at these changes, the vast majority are very positive!

The only contentious ones that I can spot are perhaps:
The 26 - looks like it will take longer
The 84 being cut back
The 63 being re-routed
The 46b being replaced with a service to Merrion Square only
The 38a becoming a peak hour only service
The 37x being subsumed into the 37 - does that mean that all Carpenterstown services will be stopping services?

markpb

KC61 wrote: »

Sandyford and Blackrock remain linked by the 114.

Lets not pretend 17 departures a day is "linked". Even assuming people only work 9-5.30, there are only 2 departures in the morning that connect the Dart to Sandyford. In the evenings there are 1h gaps between buses. That's not usable, it's a joke and a waste of resources. If they were going to link the Dart to Sandyford, there should be lots of buses around 9 and again around 5.30 and a reliable (clockface) service the rest of the day.

KD345

noelfirl wrote: »

And when they say this is all 'proposed', does this mean all these changes will have to Dempsey-stamped too? I can see the put-out people going to their local TD and screwing with some of the changes if that's the case.

I think it's all been given the green light.

From dublinbus.ie

Phase 1 of the Dublin Bus Network Direct Project is now complete and has been approved in principle by the National Transport Authority.

JHMEG

Hmm. "Lucan" improvements as regards the 66/66a/66b and 67 are few and far between.

Good:

• Glen Easton (and by association Rinawade) gets a bus service 15 years after it was built.

Not so good:

• No increase in frequency of services
• No reduction in journey times. All North Kildare services still go the "old road" thru Lucan and Chapelizod. No use made of the N4.
• Still no connection between Celbridge and Leixlip or Maynooth, despite Leixlip being a huge centre of employmment, and Maynooth being a University town.

KC61

Hamndegger wrote: »

It says that the 26 will serve Ballyfermot so it may be routed via Sarsfield Road and not Conygham Road or it could just link up to Heuston. It is still a proposed routing so it is liable to change.

It does show the route operating via Chapelizod Road so I would say that is via the SCR and St John's Road.

Cookie_Monster

What do you reckon the newspapers reaction will be tomorrow. Plenty of people will be annoyed about this, losing "thier" routes, that kind of thing. Hopefully the news will try and portray the good points over the bad and not use it as another stick to beat the government with :"IE Local town to loses its link to city centre" and that sort of thing

KC61

markpb wrote: »

Lets not pretend 17 departures a day is "linked". Even assuming people only work 9-5.30, there are only 2 departures in the morning that connect the Dart to Sandyford. In the evenings there are 1h gaps between buses. That's not usable, it's a joke and a waste of resources. If they were going to link the Dart to Sandyford, there should be lots of buses around 9 and again around 5.30 and a reliable (clockface) service the rest of the day.

Fair point - just making an observation!

Ham'nd'egger

dynamick wrote: »

Stillorgan proposed route map is brilliant.

• Monkstown ring road used by new new 46E service
• Regular service from Bellarmine to city via sandyford ind est
• Monkstown Farm and Stillorgan shopping centre diversions dropped by most buses
• 46A now goes to the zoo
• 145 to Heuston station makes a lot of onward rail journeys feasible
• Blanchardstown to UCD!

Just three things:

• No link between Sandyford Industrial and Dun Laoghaire or Blackrock
• No link between Cherrywood and Dun Laoghaire or Blackrock
• No frequency listed for 46E (Blackrock-Mountjoy Square via N11)

75 and 114 both remain in place so they will serve Sandyford and Stillorgan estates. Also, the 7 will remain in place as will the 45 so that allows a link to Blackrock and the 47 and 63 will link to Cherrywood and hence the 7 and 84 via the LUAS or via the N 11 and the 145.

The 46E isn't listed to run via the ring road as it mentions that it passes the Church on Newtown Park Avenue, Temple Hill and Carysford Avenue. I'd suspect it will be a 20 minute peak and 30 minute off peak service.

angel01

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

What do you reckon the newspapers reaction will be tomorrow. Plenty of people will be annoyed about this, losing "thier" routes, that kind of thing. Hopefully the news will try and portray the good points over the bad and not use it as another stick to beat the government with :"IE Local town to loses its link to city centre" and that sort of thing

But if you were depending on a route to get you to town and that was removed, why couldn't you say that?

KC61

angel01 wrote: »

But if you were depending on a route to get you to town and that was removed, why couldn't you say that?

Out of curiousity what is your view of the changes, given your much expressed fears?

Cookie_Monster

angel01 wrote: »

But if you were depending on a route to get you to town and that was removed, why couldn't you say that?

well the points about that were mentioned back in the last couple of pages. link to 145 and luas which probably faster, even though no longer a direct without changes route

devnull

Personally I too think most of that is pretty positive, with the following exceptions

- The new 47 route seems a very good idea, and solves what I stated before as the problem with the current 46b - however they really missed a trick if you ask me by not making it cross city and only going to Merrion Square, that would put me off personally, if it went from North of the Liffey it would be an alternative to what a lot of people do now and go from North Side to City centre then walk to Stephens Green for the Luas..

- The cut back of the 38a to only peak times would lengthen the journey of those who take the 38a now outside these times, so it would man an increase in journey times for these people.

- It seems that Ongar to Blanchardstown Centre would now require a change of bus.

- It also seems Xpresso services are being removed?

With regards to the other comments on fares, making it more expensive for people to use cash is no bad thing - we need to get more people using prepaid tickets such as the excellent value travel 90.

HydeRoad

noelfirl wrote: »

Having the 25a/b use the Lucan bypass is a God-send in terms of the Chapelizod pinch point in the morning, although they could have gone further and routed maybe the 67 via the bypass as well, how much further of an impact on the service through Chapelizod it would have had, I don't know, but I suspect not a huge detriment. In theory having the 26 going via Kylemore might cut out some of the delay going down by the West County hotel, but with the caveat of an increased time going through Ballyfermot. EDIT: And when they say this is all 'proposed', does this mean all these changes will have to Dempsey-stamped too? I can see the put-out people going to their local TD and screwing with some of the changes if that's the case.

Agreed, the 66 and 67 are long routes, and have enough of work to do serving the outlying areas of Maynooth and Celbridge. Long routes like this should do their work on the outer end, and once they reach the vicinity of the M50, should run straight in as quick and direct as possible. This is a disappointment, it was an opportunity to do for Celbridge and Maynooth what Circle Line had been doing very popularly for years, a quick, direct link.

On the matter of long, slow journey times, during the most part of the day, excluding peak hours, buses should really be aiming at a target average of 20kph. That means a typical 10km journey from the city to say Lucan, Baldoyle or Dún Laoghaire should be possible to do in a very attractive and efficient half an hour. 15km journeys to outlying areas like Celbridge, Malahide or Cherrywood should be possible in just under an hour, which is more than enough for the endurance of a city commuter. A lap time of an hour in and an hour out is also the ideal time for scheduling a bus and driver, and makes for a very efficient operation.

The Dublin Bus norm of allowing buses to Blanchardstown, for example, to take an hour and a half, besides being grossly inefficient, does nothing to entice people out of private cars, when they can easily do the same journey in less than half the time. Dublin Bus really need to give themselves aggressive targets, NOT to make bus drivers drive too fast, but to eliminate wasteful diversions, dwell time, and chicanery. Every time a bus turns left or right and heads off on a tangent to the direct route, more passengers are lost, and efficiency is compromised. Every time a bus spends far too long sitting at bus stops all the way along it's journey, a whole additional bus AND driver are added to the schedule, and efficiency is lost.

Cookie_Monster

devnull wrote: »

- It also seems Xpresso services are being removed?

the maps specifically state that expresso not included on the mapping and I'd suggest that they are outside the scope of this first part at least

Ham'nd'egger

devnull wrote: »

- It also seems Xpresso services are being removed?.

Xpressos are not shown on those maps so they should be still running:)

devnull

• Route 37x is amalgamated into Route 37, operating direct to Wilton Terrace (Leeson Street)
• Route 70x is amalgamated into Route 70, operating direct to Wilton Terrace (Leeson Street)

Suggests the 70x/37x are dead.

KC61

JHMEG wrote: »

Hmm. "Lucan" improvements as regards the 66/66a/66b and 67 are few and far between.

Good:

• Glen Easton (and by association Rinawade) gets a bus service 15 years after it was built.

Not so good:

• No increase in frequency of services
• No reduction in journey times. All North Kildare services still go the "old road" thru Lucan and Chapelizod. No use made of the N4.
• Still no connection between Celbridge and Leixlip or Maynooth, despite Leixlip being a huge centre of employmment, and Maynooth being a University town.

Fair points - I guess this is the stuff that needs to be put to the bus company during the public meetings - they don't really mention what the 66X and 67X will be like post changes.

Ham'nd'egger

devnull wrote: »

[/LIST]
Suggests the 70x/37x are dead.

True but it does say they are amalgamated into the 37 and 70 timetables so you probably have them running Xpresso without an X prefix.

dynamick

KC61 wrote: »

Sandyford and Blackrock remain linked by the 114.

Cherrywood remains linked to Dun Laoghaire and Blackrock by the 7 and also the 45 to Blackrock.

I'd forgotten the 7. But the 114 is utterly useless. It's timetabled to provide an approximate 1 hour service which is inadequate for a major work destination and luas terminus. When I last used it, it was very unreliable, so you could be waiting more than an hour for a bus. It's quicker to walk.

The 75 only does 5 services each way via sandyford industrial estate. That is not enough to attract customers. I would favour dropping multiple inadequate routes and replacing with one working route.

dynamick

Hamndegger wrote: »

The 46E isn't listed to run via the ring road as it mentions that it passes the Church on Newtown Park Avenue, Temple Hill and Carysford Avenue. I'd suspect it will be a 20 minute peak and 30 minute off peak service.

The 46E says

• Coppinger Estate (which is Stillorgan Park)
• Carysfort Avenue (I take this to mean it traverses Carysfort Avenue from Stillorgan Park onto the Western half of the MRR)
  [turn left onto]
• Newtown Park Avenue
  [turn left onto]
• Temple Hill
• Blackrock Station

KC61

JHMEG wrote: »

Still no connection between Celbridge and Leixlip or Maynooth, despite Leixlip being a huge centre of employmment, and Maynooth being a University town.

So perhaps extend the 66b from its current terminus via Celbridge, and then route back over the link road to Intel and then out to Maynooth?

There would probably be considerable merit in that.

It could also give an all day service to St Wolstans.

KD345

JHMEG wrote: »

Not so good:

• No increase in frequency of services
• No reduction in journey times. All North Kildare services still go the "old road" thru Lucan and Chapelizod. No use made of the N4.
• Still no connection between Celbridge and Leixlip or Maynooth, despite Leixlip being a huge centre of employmment, and Maynooth being a University town.

The increase on the 67 means a 30 minute frequency all day to Maynooth. That's more than what is currently offered with the 67A.

Does the 66 not link Leixlip and Maynooth?

I would think the Xpresso services will still use the Chapelizod Bypass. I suppose some routes have to serve Chapelizod. Perhaps there is a demand for people in Chapelizod and Islandbridge to travel to Leixlip and Maynooth?

Ham'nd'egger

dynamick wrote: »

Carysfort Avenue (I take this to mean it traverses Carysfort Avenue from Stillorgan Park onto the Western half of the MRR)

I follow you now; I had forgotten about that section of road extending to Carysford and reckoned it was turning onto Newtown Park at the Playwright, onto Newtown Park Avenue before turning onto the MRR. I assumed you meant the whole road length.