Fake Al-Qaeda provoking Islamaphobia

Brown Bomber

What do want? A full transcript`? Why don't you just watch it?

gizmo

Yet despite the accusations of a fake Al-Qaeda provoking Islamaphobia we have a 19 year old Somali-born radical attempting to blow up a town center full of civilians in the US. On the upside at least the FBI actually did the right thing this time in the bomb-switching but on the downside it's hardly going to make life easier for millions of Muslims who are repulsed by this violence.

Brown Bomber

gizmo wrote: »

Yet despite the accusations of a fake Al-Qaeda provoking Islamaphobia we have a 19 year old Somali-born radical attempting to blow up a town center full of civilians in the US. On the upside at least the FBI actually did the right thing this time in the bomb-switching but on the downside it's hardly going to make life easier for millions of Muslims who are repulsed by this violence.

Yeah but would there have been a bomb at all if the FBI didn't put him up to it? He was going to take a job in Alaska but the FBI put him on a no-fly-list so he couldn't take the job.

More than this the atrocities of the US-led "war on terror" is actually creating terrorists by the day with every home they bomb and innocent child they maim or kill.

If this was your child what would you do?

Mod: Warning Graphic Image:

http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/&_/_/p2/depleted_uranium_baby.jpe

And the sick ****s want to spread their evil wars much further.

gizmo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Yeah but would there have been a bomb at all if the FBI didn't put him up to it? He was going to take a job in Alaska but the FBI put him on a no-fly-list so he couldn't take the job.

More than likely yes except next time it wouldn't have been a fake. He also wanted to fly to Middle East in order to take up arms, something else he wasn't allowed do because of his addition to the no-fly-list.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

More than this the atrocities of the US-led "war on terror" is actually creating terrorists by the day with every home they bomb and innocent child they maim or kill.

While I certainly agree that the current efforts are creating future enemies I believe our opinions differ on one key point, had the 9/11 attacks not taken place then the subsequent invasions/wars would not have occurred. Now of course the common train of thought on this forum is clearly that the events were orchestrated to bring about a climate where they could take place and on that note I'm not sure whether we disagree or not.

On the former point, I believe a similar argument was made by George Galloway in a debate with Christopher Hitchens and I was glad to see the Galloway utterly destroyed for it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChIVXX7gOTc

Brown Bomber wrote: »

And the sick ****s want to spread their evil wars much further.

And my counter would be as above, had the other sick ****s not hijacked those planes which led to the deaths of over 3000 civilians then the Middle East wouldn't be in its current state. Do note I am not attempting to justify the death of civilians during the aftermath of the US-led invasions, I'm merely pointing out that there is certainly two sides to this coin which should be examined.

Brown Bomber

Terrorist Who Trained London Bombers Was Working For US Government

While talking heads like Glenn Beck continue to invoke the threat of radical Islam, they habitually ignore the blindingly obvious, that radical Islam is a creature of the US military-industrial complex. Case in point - the terrorist who trained the London bombers was a US informant and has been freed after serving only four and a half years of a possible 70-year sentence.

Citing his "exceptional co-operation," in working with US authorities, a New York Judge released Mohammed Junaid Babar despite him pleading guilty to five counts of terrorism, an outcome that has, "Raised questions over whether Babar was a US informer at the time he was helping to train the ringleader of the 7 July tube and bus bombings," reports the London Guardian.

Babar admits to consorting with high level "Al-Qaeda" terrorists, as well as "providing senior members with money and equipment, running weapons." He also set up a training camp in Pakistan in 2003 where alleged 7/7 ringleader Mohammad Sidique Khan learned bomb-making techniques.

"Graham Foulkes, a magistrate whose 22-year-old son David was killed by Khan at Edgware Road underground station in 2005, said: "People get four and a half years for burglary. They can get more for some road traffic offences. So for an international terrorist who's directly linked to the death of my son and dozens and dozens of people to get that sentence is just outrageous."

But Babar's release makes perfect sense given the fact that he was likely working for US authorities as an informant while training one of the alleged London bombers.

"A remark from the sentencing judge that Babar "began co-operating even before his arrest", has raised the possibility, supported by other circumstantial evidence obtained by the Guardian, that he may have been an informant for the US government before his detention by the FBI in April 2004," writes the Guardian's Shiv Malik, who in a separate article goes into greater depth on how, "Babar may have been working for the US security services while pretending to be a jihadi – allegations that could imply serious failures to prevent the 7 July bombings."

The Guardian article describes how a top US terrorism lawyer has seen sealed evidence in the case which "suggests Babar could have been working for the US authorities before his arrest in April 2004."

"Having reviewed the court transcript himself, bereaved father Graham Foulkes said: "There's a hint from one or two of the sentences [in the transcript] that do strongly suggest [Babar's] co-operation was going well beyond his official arrest. And it looks as if the Americans may well have known in detail what Babar was up to in Pakistan [at the time] and that is a very, very serious matter."

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/february2011/140211_terrorist_trained.htm

gizmo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Terrorist Who Trained London Bombers Was Working For US Government
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/february2011/140211_terrorist_trained.htm

Slightly hyperbolic title there BB. Authorities all over the world use informants within criminal organisations in order to help take them down from within, outside of a failure to prevent the July 7th bombings which Babar may or may not known about, I'm not sure what they should have done differently here? What I'd be more interested in finding out is what information was he providing authorities with both before and after his arrest which would have led to his reduced sentence.

As for the rest of the article, why do these pieces always refer to loons like Glen Beck? They don't represent the thoughts of the majority of people and their arguments are so over the top that it deflects from the actual issue at hand. As for radical Islam being a creature of US military-industrial complex, well what did it have to do with the death of Theo van Gogh? Or the fatwa issued on Salman Rushdie for writing a book? Or the thousands that marched in Khartoum seeking the death of Gillian Gibbons after a teddy bear in her classroom was named Muhammad?

Reading the rest of the article now actually, it ironically also comes across as Beck-style lunacy, making excuses for every single attack that has happened in recent memory. And then you get to the bottom and there's the good 'ol Alex Jones reference, should have known. :rolleyes:

Brown Bomber

gizmo wrote: »

Slightly hyperbolic title there BB. Authorities all over the world use informants within criminal organisations in order to help take them down from within, outside of a failure to prevent the July 7th bombings which Babar may or may not known about, I'm not sure what they should have done differently here? What I'd be more interested in finding out is what information was he providing authorities with both before and after his arrest which would have led to his reduced sentence.

As for the rest of the article, why do these pieces always refer to loons like Glen Beck? They don't represent the thoughts of the majority of people and their arguments are so over the top that it deflects from the actual issue at hand. As for radical Islam being a creature of US military-industrial complex, well what did it have to do with the death of Theo van Gogh? Or the fatwa issued on Salman Rushdie for writing a book? Or the thousands that marched in Khartoum seeking the death of Gillian Gibbons after a teddy bear in her classroom was named Muhammad?

Reading the rest of the article now actually, it ironically also comes across as Beck-style lunacy, making excuses for every single attack that has happened in recent memory. And then you get to the bottom and there's the good 'ol Alex Jones reference, should have known. :rolleyes:

I'm not saying fundamental Islam isn't intolerant, it is; as are fundamental Christians and orthodox Jews.

However, the leap from fundamental Islamist to infidel killer is great.

False-flag terrorist attacks framing Muslims/Arabs are every bit as real actual terrorist attacks. If I was posting here in the 80's claiming the CIA were secretly arming, training and funding Mujahadeen-Jihad factions via the ISI with Chinese and Israeli weapons people would think I was crazy, but I'd be right.

gizmo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I'm not saying fundamental Islam isn't intolerant, it is; as are fundamental Christians and orthodox Jews.

However, the leap from fundamental Islamist to infidel killer is great.

False-flag terrorist attacks framing Muslims/Arabs are every bit as real actual terrorist attacks. If I was posting here in the 80's claiming the CIA were secretly arming, training and funding Mujahadeen-Jihad factions via the ISI with Chinese and Israeli weapons people would think I was crazy, but I'd be right.

Intolerance from any religion is nothing really new so I'd certainly agree there but I don't think the leap from fundamental Islamist to infidel killer is as great as one would wish. Look at the incidents I listed, all supported by a large number of people, it wasn't just the actions of a crazed few. That ties in with my point however, especially in relation to what you were saying. To treat said fundamentalism as merely a by-product of Western influence in these regions is just as dangerous as nuts like Beck/Fox News spouting their hate at Muslims and the religion in general. That also extends to the opposite side of the loony-bin by blaming every attack that occurs on shadowy Western influence. In each case all you have is each side blaming each other for the status-quo rather than actually attempting to address the problem - that being each side putting their own radical element in its place.

As a sidenote, the idea of the US doing anything to interfere with Russia (and, in fairness, vice-versa) during the Cold War wouldn't have surprised most people in the least.

Brown Bomber

A GROUP of Israeli Arab women flown to Paris in 1964 were met by a Mossad officer who told them that their husbands were not who they thought they were.

"He is not an Arab," the officer told each of them. "He is a Jew."


As related yesterday in the Tel Aviv daily Yediot Ahronot, the story had begun a decade earlier when security officials decided to plant agents in Israeli Arab villages and towns. Israel's War of Independence, in which the newborn state battled for a year against Palestinian Arabs and the invading armies of surrounding Arab states, had ended just a few years before, in 1949. The purpose of the sleeper agents was to warn if Israeli Arabs would revolt in the event of another war.


Ten young Jewish immigrants from Iraq were trained for a year before being sent into Israeli Arab communities, posing as refugees from the war who had escaped to a neighbouring Arab country and had now infiltrated back.


It quickly became apparent that in order to maintain credibility the men would have to marry. "It would have been suspicious for young, vigorous men to remain alone, without a spouse," said Shmuel Moriah, the security officer who headed the operation. "We didn't order them to marry, but there was such an expectation."


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/your-muslim-husband-is-a-jew/story-e6frg6so-1226009693798

Brown Bomber

Guantánamo Bay files: Al-Qaida assassin 'worked for MI6'

An al-Qaida operative accused of bombing two Christian churches and a luxury hotel in Pakistan in 2002 was at the same time working for British intelligence, according to secret files on detainees who were shipped to the US military's Guantánamo Bay prison camp.


Adil Hadi al Jazairi Bin Hamlili, an Algerian citizen described as a "facilitator, courier, kidnapper, and assassin for al-Qaida", was detained in Pakistan in 2003 and later sent to Guantánamo Bay.


But according to Hamlili's Guantánamo "assessment" file, one of 759 individual dossiers obtained by the Guardian, US interrogators were convinced that he was simultaneously acting as an informer for British and Canadian intelligence.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/25/guantanamo-files-al-qaida-assassin-worked-for-mi6

'BBC linked to al-Qaeda extremists'

The BBC has been involved in a “possible propaganda media network” for al-Qaeda based on newly revealed documents that show the company's staff were in contact with extremists.


The Daily Telegraph said it has accessed the US files on the Guantanamo through the WikiLeaks website that include a BBC phone number retrieved from the phone books and phones of a number of extremists detained by the US forces.

The documents reportedly contain a detained assessment from April 21, 2007 that reads “the London, United Kingdom (UK), phone number 0044 207 XXX XXXX was discovered in numerous seized phone books and phones associated with extremist-linked individuals”.

“The number is associated with the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC),” the assessment added while the Daily Telegraph said the number is one for Bush House, home of the BBC World Service.

Based on the assessment many “extremist links” were traced to the number therefore a BBC member of staff could have been sympathetic to the extremists or could have provided them with information on “ACM [anti-Coalition Militia] operations”, a possibility reflected in an 'analyst note' on the information.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/176821.html

Brown Bomber

Muslim with intimate 7/7 links works for Scotland Yard

A man described as a suspected terrorist sympathiser closely linked to the July 7 bombers has worked for Scotland Yard and a string of councils to run training courses about "engaging" Muslim youths.

Continued: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/8500124/Muslim-with-intimate-77-links-works-for-Scotland-Yard.html

Brown Bomber

Defence: Federal agent coerced teen to violence

PORTLAND, Ore. - Defence lawyers for a Somali-American teen charged with trying to detonate a bomb at a holiday tree-lighting ceremony say a federal agent tried to coerce him into violence.
Attorneys for Mohamed O. Mohamud said in a filing Friday that emails from an agent known only as "Bill Smith" prove the teen's innocence and show the federal government is not playing fair with the evidence it is supposed to provide.
"The correspondence between Bill Smith and (Mohamud) demonstrates that Smith was acting as an agent provocateur, attempting to encourage (Mohamud) to engage in violent activity in this country," the defence team wrote.

Continued: http://news.ca.msn.com/world/cp-article.aspx?cp-documentid=28651334

Monty Burnz

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Muslim with intimate 7/7 links works for Scotland Yard


Continued: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/8500124/Muslim-with-intimate-77-links-works-for-Scotland-Yard.html

Interesting link BB - I'd have a few observations.

Wouldn't it make as much sense for terrorists to try to infiltrate the police to study their methods and so forth, as it would for police to do the opposite?

In addition, I'd compare this with a paedophile who gets police work to deal with 'vulnerable' children - if you were a terrorist recruiter, you'd hit the lottery if you could convince police that you could talk young Muslims out of radicalisation, and they put you together with the ones they think are most likely to head that way.

Di0genes

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Muslim with intimate 7/7 links works for Scotland Yard


Continued: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/8500124/Muslim-with-intimate-77-links-works-for-Scotland-Yard.html

I'm sorry but;

Scotland Yard said he was hired as part of a "strategy" which did not require officers to "routinely carry out background checks".

and

Mohammad, known as "Taf", has never been accused of any terrorist offence

This appears to have been a communications failure, rather than a plot by Scotland Yard to hire a sinister member who was part of the plot.

Brown Bomber

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Interesting link BB - I'd have a few observations.

Wouldn't it make as much sense for terrorists to try to infiltrate the police to study their methods and so forth, as it would for police to do the opposite?

In addition, I'd compare this with a paedophile who gets police work to deal with 'vulnerable' children - if you were a terrorist recruiter, you'd hit the lottery if you could convince police that you could talk young Muslims out of radicalisation, and they put you together with the ones they think are most likely to head that way.

I like were your going with this. I hadn't thought of that, it's an interesting take on it. I think it's cases like this where your pre-concieved ideas have influence on how you read it.

Mahatma coat

in Light of the Kneejerk reaction by the MSM and a lot of Posters here on Boards to Blame Islam for the attacks in Norway last Friday before any details emerged I think we should revisit this topic.

I'm on an atrocious connection ATM but I'll try and gather together some of the staistics that were brought to the attention of those who PRESUMED that Islam was guilty of "99% of all Terrorist Bombings" whereas the truth turned out to be more like 4% :rolleyes:

Monty Burnz

Mahatma coat wrote: »

I'm on an atrocious connection ATM but I'll try and gather together some of the staistics that were brought to the attention of those who PRESUMED that Islam was guilty of "99% of all Terrorist Bombings" whereas the truth turned out to be more like 4% :rolleyes:

Can you please provide a source for your claim that (in the last decade) Muslims have been responsible for only 4% of terrorist bombings worldwide?

Brown Bomber

Mahatma coat wrote: »

in Light of the Kneejerk reaction by the MSM and a lot of Posters here on Boards to Blame Islam for the attacks in Norway last Friday before any details emerged I think we should revisit this topic.

I'm on an atrocious connection ATM but I'll try and gather together some of the staistics that were brought to the attention of those who PRESUMED that Islam was guilty of "99% of all Terrorist Bombings" whereas the truth turned out to be more like 4% :rolleyes:

Breivik's attack as inevitable I think. Fake Al Qaeda and UK-US-Israeli overt and covert sponsoring of Muslim terrorist groups such as the British special forces who were arrested dressed as Arabs in Basra with explosives in their car http://www.twf.org/News/Y2005/0928-Basra.html, or the 5 CIA/Blackwater agents arrested in Peshawar with beards and dressed as locals, or Jundullah, Tehrik-I-Taliban, PKK and the list goes on and on.

It has been evident to me for a long time that their will be perpetual war with Arabs/Muslims. Essential to justify this is a propoganda wing which includes the majority of the mainstream media which plants the seeds of hate amongst it's audience. A good example is this: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056287549. The same message, an anti-Islamic message is being pushed through many different channels. For example the anti-Islamic message of the EDL who preach to the ignorant and of Sam Harris who preaches to pseudo-intellectuals is essentially the same, for example here is Sam Harris on gatesofvienna which is cited frequently in Breitvik's manifesto http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/12/dangerous-lie.html

... Be afraid of Islam. And right in the centre pulling the strings and financing it all are the Zionists - naturally as these wars against Arabs are wars for Israel while the US bankrupts itself. This was a ticking time bomb

Yitzhak Rabin

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Can you please provide a source for your claim that (in the last decade) Muslims have been responsible for only 4% of terrorist bombings worldwide?

How about you prove your claim first?

Di0genes

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Breivik's attack as inevitable I think. Fake Al Qaeda and UK-US-Israeli overt and covert sponsoring of Muslim terrorist groups such as the British special forces who were arrested dressed as Arabs in Basra with explosives in their car http://www.twf.org/News/Y2005/0928-Basra.html, or the 5 CIA/Blackwater agents arrested in Peshawar with beards and dressed as locals, or Jundullah, Tehrik-I-Taliban, PKK and the list goes on and on.

It has been evident to me for a long time that their will be perpetual war with Arabs/Muslims. Essential to justify this is a propoganda wing which includes the majority of the mainstream media which plants the seeds of hate amongst it's audience. A good example is this: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056287549. The same message, an anti-Islamic message is being pushed through many different channels. For example the anti-Islamic message of the EDL who preach to the ignorant and of Sam Harris who preaches to pseudo-intellectuals is essentially the same, for example here is Sam Harris on gatesofvienna which is cited frequently in Breitvik's manifesto http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/12/dangerous-lie.html

... Be afraid of Islam. And right in the centre pulling the strings and financing it all are the Zionists - naturally as these wars against Arabs are wars for Israel while the US bankrupts itself. This was a ticking time bomb

And how does the Arab spring fit in to all of this?

Monty Burnz

yekahS wrote: »

How about you prove your claim first?

I did. But you might want to keep discussion of my claims on that thread on that thread.

Here, I'm asking Mahatma to prove the claim that he has made here on this thread.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Brown Bomber

Di0genes wrote: »

And how does the Arab spring fit in to all of this?

I can't answer that as the "Arab Spring" isn't a single event for obvious reasons.

Monty Burnz

Brown Bomber wrote: »

And right in the centre pulling the strings and financing it all are the Zionists - naturally as these wars against Arabs are wars for Israel while the US bankrupts itself.

I'd imagine that a strong US is of key importance to Israel - without US backing, I'd be astonished if Israel had survived as long as it has. If they had any brains there, they'd make a just peace with the Palestinians now from a position of strength, rather than continue a low-scale war where the tide might turn against them in 50 or 100 years when US hegemony is finished.

Di0genes

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I can't answer that as the "Arab Spring" isn't a single event for obvious reasons.

Saying the Arab Spring hasn't changed our views of the Islamic World is like claiming the fall of the Iron Curtain didn't effect our views of Soviet Bloc countries because it "wasn't a single event".

Brown Bomber

Di0genes wrote: »

Saying the Arab Spring hasn't changed our views of the Islamic World is like claiming the fall of the Iron Curtain didn't effect our views of Soviet Bloc countries because it "wasn't a single event".

1. Your not qualified to speak on my views.
2. I never actually said that, I said that the Arab spring can't be treated as a single event. Could you please stay on topic?

Di0genes

Brown Bomber wrote: »

1. Your not qualified to speak on my views.
2. I never actually said that, I said that the Arab spring can't be treated as a single event. Could you please stay on topic?

I am I'm asking how if the Western World Media, and Covert Agencies are striving to protray Arabs as insane fundamentalists, how does the fact that peaceful democratic uprising in the region have regularly dominated Western News Cycles in the past year?

Michaelreilly

but dat's the whole point about al qaeda. they are an idea, not an organisation

Jonny7

Mahatma coat wrote: »

I'm on an atrocious connection ATM but I'll try and gather together some of the staistics that were brought to the attention of those who PRESUMED that Islam was guilty of "99% of all Terrorist Bombings" whereas the truth turned out to be more like 4% :rolleyes:

I want a source for that too, I can't understand where you get that 4% figure from?

I've selected a year and a month at random

April

Date Dead Injured Location and description
April 8 1 In the two weeks prior to April 8, at least thirteen Afghans and two French aid workers are kidnapped. Rebels demand further releases of their jailed associates in exchange for some of the hostages.[39]
April 9 1 30 A bomb used against a police headquarters in Cali kills one and injures 30. FARC are blamed.[40]
April 10 4 23 Three suicide bombers kill one policeman and injure 23 people in Casablanca, Morocco.[41]
April 11 33 222 Two suicide car bombs kill 33 people and injure 222 in Algiers, Algeria; Al-Qaeda takes responsibility.[42]
April 12 8 20 One suicide bomber kills eight people and injures 20 in the cafeteria of the Iraqi Parliament, in the Green Zone in Baghdad.[43]
April 14 65 100 Suicide car bomb kills 65 people and injure 100 in Karbala, Iraq.[44]
April 14 1 3 Two suicide bombers explode at an internet cafe, near the American Language Center, in Casablanca, Morocco; one person is injured. On October 17, 2008 a Moroccan court sentenced more than 40 people to up to 30 years in prison over the suicide bombing. The state news agency, MAP, said those accused had been planning a string of attacks in Casablanca using home-made explosives. Authorities said, the plot was uncovered by the investigation following bombing.[45][46]
April 18 200 251 A series of explosions kills 200 people and injures 251 in Baghdad, Iraq. See 18 April 2007 Baghdad bombings.[47]
April 18 3 In Malatya, Turkey, hometown of Mehmet Ali Agca, three Christian men—one of them a 45-year-old German father of three children, Tilman Geske—are brutally murdered by at least four young men who confess to the slayings. The assassins torture their victims for hours before cutting their throats; an autopsy of the German victim finds 156 stab wounds. Hurriyet newspaper quotes a suspect: "Let this be a lesson to enemies of our religion."[48][49][50]
April 20 1 0 A suicide car bomber attacked an Ethiopian army base in the capital Mogadishu, Somalia.[51]
April 25 11 A suicide bomber kills 11 during an attack on a hotel south of Mogadishu, Somolia.[52]
April 28 28 35 Interior minister Aftab Ahmad Sherpao of Pakistan suffers minor injuries, 28 are killed, and 35 are injured (ten critically) in a suicide bombing after the minister finishes speaking.[53]
April 28 28 35 A car bomb kills kills 63 people and injures 70 in Karbala, Iraq.[54]
[edit]

source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2007

Thats probably the best list available right now and since I've been a religious followed of the news since 911, I actually remember quite a few of these. In fact, islamic extremist bombings in Iraq became so bad that even Sunni insurgents joined with their enemies, US forces, to combat them.

Just take a look at May this year after Bin Laden's death
http://tribune.com.pk/story/175661/timeline-terrorist-attacks-in-pakistan-in-may-2011/

Again, 4%, where on earth did you pull that figure from??

Mahatma coat

Sorry lads, it was 6% not 4% over a 25 year period acording to this

yekahS wrote: »

Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil by Group, From 1980 to 2005, According to FBI Database

Source for the chart is here:

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005/terror02_05

I understand why you would make a ridiculous statement like you did Monty, the media doesn't portray it like it is.

So 6% not 4% over the last 25 years, but still nowhere near the 99% that was initaly mooted as fact

Monty Burnz

Mahatma coat wrote: »

So 6% not 4% over the last 25 years, but still nowhere near the 99% that was initaly mooted as fact

Did you even read what that graph represents?

Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil by Group, From 1980 to 2005