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Fake Al-Qaeda provoking Islamaphobia
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You're just exposed your profound ignorance and woeful lack of the basic facts of the Russian/Afghan war.
Profound ignorance eh? Harsh.:P
Oh, and don't you mean the Soviet-Russian War?
:D
This is the part you quoted re the profound ignorance.
1.At the top there is the former Mujahadeen leaders and the former Mujahadeen fighters who were recruited by the CIA and Saudi Arabia
I Stand by that
2. and radicalised and trained by the Americans in CIA established Madrasas and training camps fund by the CIA to fight the ISI/CIA war against the Communists in Afghanistan.
(Made a balls of that actual statement but to clarify:
The Mujahadeen fighters were trained and radicalised in CIA funded Madrasas to fight the CIA war against Communists in Afghanistan.
I stand by this statement also
3.I doubt if many knew they were actually fighting for the CIA but certainly the Mujahadeen leaders would have known, including bin Laden. (emphasis yours)
I stand by this too but perhaps I should explain a little. I didn't mean leader(s) in the sense of battlefield commander but he certainly was a leader. He was the liason between Saudi intelligence and the ISI and was naturally close to all the seperate Mujahadeen faction leaders, who weren't close to each other. He was a leading engineerm financier and recruiter for the cause and all round go to guy. Think about that for a moment, he was doing exactly what the CIA wanted done.
In bin Laden's own words:
Robert Fisk Interviews, Usama bin Ladin - 6th December, 1996. "The Independent"
Osama Bin Laden sat in his gold-fringed robe, guarded by the loyal Arab mujahedin who fought alongside him in Afghanistan. Bearded, taciturn figures - unarmed, but never more than a few yards from the man who recruited them, trained them and then dispatched them to destroy the Soviet army.
When the history of the Afghan resistance movement is written, Mr Bin Laden's own contribution to the mujahedin - and the indirect result of his training and assistance - may turn out to be a turning point in the recent history of militant fundamentalism
Within months, however, Mr Bin Laden was sending Arab fighters - Egyptians, Algerians, Lebanese, Kuwaitis, Turks and Tunisians - into Afghanistan; "not hundreds but thousands," he said. He supported them with weapons and his own construction equipment. Along with his Iraqi engineer Mohamed Saad - who is now building the Port Sudan road - Mr Bin Laden blasted massive tunnels into the Zazi mountains of Bakhtiar province for guerilla hospitals and arms dumps and cut a mujahedin trail across the country to within 15 miles of Kabul
I told him that Bosnian Muslim fighters in the Bosnian town of Travnik had mentioned his name to me. "I feel the same about Bosnia," he said.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7203.htmFor starts the CIA would have provided some of the funding, via the ISI, but had next to no control over the camps themselves.
According to official US sources right? :pac::pac:
Let me ask you this. If the ISI were running the training camps and the CIA controlled the ISI how do you come up with "little or no control over the camps themselves" part?
I don't know what you mean.Secondly Bin Laden's role in the Afghan war was at best preferable,
he originally went over to give money (inherited from his family) to fund fighters. He barely saw company and certainly was not a Mujahadeen leader.
I think I've addressed this so now is as good a time as any to give an example of his ties to the CIA.
Bin Laden comes home to roost
His CIA ties are only the beginning of a woeful story By Michael Moran- MSNBCYet the CIA, concerned about the factionalism of Afghanistan made famous by Rudyard Kipling, found that Arab zealots who flocked to aid the Afghans were easier to “read” than the rivalry-ridden natives. While the Arab volunteers might well prove troublesome later, the agency reasoned, they at least were one-dimensionally anti-Soviet for now. So bin Laden, along with a small group of Islamic militants from Egypt, Pakistan, Lebanon, Syria and Palestinian refugee camps all over the Middle East, became the “reliable” partners of the CIA in its war against Moscow.
As his unclassified CIA biography states, bin Laden left Saudi Arabia to fight the Soviet army in Afghanistan after Moscow’s invasion in 1979. By 1984, he was running a front organization known as Maktab al-Khidamar - the MAK - which funneled money, arms and fighters from the outside world into the Afghan war.The Maktab al-Khadamāt, also Maktab Khadamāt al-Mujāhidīn al-Arab (Arabic: مكتب الخدمات or مكتب خدمات المجاهدين العرب, MAK), also known as the Afghan Bureau, is reliably thought to have been founded by Dr. Abdullah Yusuf Azzam, a teacher of Osama bin Laden, and an influential member of the Muslim Brotherhood. MAK was used as a conduit for funneling funds from several Western sources to finance the jihad in Afghanistan. MAK also actively recruited fighters from around the world.
MAK also liaised closely with the then Pakistani government, particularly the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI).http://www.indopedia.org/Maktab_al-Khidamar.html
The Road To September 11What the CIA bio conveniently fails to specify (in its unclassified form, at least) is that the MAK was nurtured by Pakistan’s state security services, the Inter-Services Intelligence agency, or ISI, the CIA’s primary conduit for conducting the covert war against Moscow’s occupation.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3340101/
Newsweek -Oct 1, 2001
Al-Kifah and MAK are one and the same. So either the CIA was working for bin Laden or bin Laden was working for the CIADuring the trial, the government proved that in the 1990s Muntasser ran the Boston branch office of Al-Kifah, which was part of the Makhtab al Khidamat ("MAK") network founded by Sheik Abdullah Azzam and another person in Peshawar, Pakistan in the 1980s to provide support to the mujahideen. MAK had offices throughout the World. In North America, MAK was known by the name Al-Kifah. - http://www.ice.gov/pi/news/newsreleases/articles/080111boston.htmWhy we should bother listening to you pontificate about Muslim extremism whe your understan
inadequate? :rolleyes:ding of the subject is woefully
Nobody is making you do anything.0 -
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Brown Bomber wrote: »
Nobody is making you do anything.
You do understand that what you are doing is leaping to a massive conclusion?
Maktab al-Khidamar has ties to ISI. The ISI has ties to the CIA ergo the CIA work with Bin Laden.
Thats like saying Bill Clinton likes big Macs, on of the July 7th Bombers ate in McDonalds. Ergo McDonalds controls Clinton and the the July 7th plot.
The sheer complexity of the situation eludes you. The greatest funder of Afghan resistance in the 80s was not the CIA, but individual wealth arabs like Bin Laden. Similar to NORAD and the IRA at the same time.He was the liason between Saudi intelligence and the ISI and was naturally close to all the seperate Mujahadeen faction leaders, who weren't close to each other. He was a leading engineerm financier and recruiter for the cause and all round go to guy. Think about that for a moment, he was doing exactly what the CIA wanted done.
And you can support all this with evidence?
As to the Fisk article. Bin Laden was and is a shameless self promoter.Oh, and don't you mean the Soviet-Russian War?
Reduced to pedantry and smilies to try and score some semblance of a point oh :rolleyes::):(:P:cool::pac::cool::mad::eek:
:P:pac::cool:Yeah thats right because before 911 bin Laden was in a US Military hospital getting visited by CIA agents.
Unsupported debunked drivel.Bernard Koval, the director of the hospital, also denied the terrorist had been a patient there, saying "Osama bin Ladin has never been here. He's never been a patient and he's never been treated here. We have no idea of his medical condition. This is too small a hospital for someone to be snuck through the backdoor."
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/kidney.htm
Oh and some moreSteve Coll: I did not discover any evidence of direct contact between CIA officers and bin Laden during the 1980s, when they were working more or less in common cause against the Soviets. CIA officials, including Tenet, have denied under oath that such contact took place. The CIA was certainly aware of bin Laden's activities, beginning in the mid- to late-1980s, and they generally looked favorably on what he was doing at that time. But bin Laden's direct contacts were with Saudi intelligence and to some extent Pakistani intelligence, not with the Americans.
http://foi.missouri.edu/terrorintelligence/ghostwars.html
-Steve Coll, former Managing Editor of the Washington Post, also suggests bin Ladin passed largely unnoticed by the CIA, in his book "Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001":
MoreWhile the charges that the CIA was responsible for the rise of the Afghan Arabs might make good copy, they don't make good history. The truth is more complicated, tinged with varying shades of grey. The United States wanted to be able to deny that the CIA was funding the Afghan war, so its support was funneled through Pakistan's military intelligence agency, Inter Services Intelligence agency (ISI). ISI in turn made the decisions about which Afghan factions to arm and train, tending to fund the most Islamist and pro-Pakistan. The Afghan Arabs generally fought alongside those factions, which is how the charge arose that they were creatures of the CIA.
Former CIA officer Milt Bearden, who ran the Agency's Afghan operation in the late 1980's, says: "The CIA did not recruit Arabs," as there was no need to do so. There were hundreds of thousands of Afghans all too willing to fight...
Moreover, the Afghan Arabs demonstrated a pathological dislike of Westerners. Jouvenal says: "I always kept away from Arabs [in Afghanistan]. They were very hostile. They would ask, 'What are you doing in an Islamic country?" The BBC reporter John Simpson had a close call with bin Ladin himself outside Jalalabad in 1989. Travelling with a group of Arab mujahideen, Simpson and his television crew bumped into an Arab man beautifully dressed in spotless white robes; the man began shouting at Simpson's escorts to kill the infidels, then offered a truck driver the not unreasonable sum of five hundred dollars to do the job. Simpson's Afghan escort turned down the request, and bin Ladin was to be found later on a camp bed, weeping in frustration. Only when bin Ladin became a public figure, almost a decade later, did Simpson realise who the mysterious Arab was who had wanted him dead.
Why would the CIA need to recruit Arabs that were already willing to fight a Jihad?
Oh and from your own Robert Fisk interview
http://www.robert-fisk.com/usama_bin_ladin_in_sudan1996.htmFisk: ...what of the Arab mujahedin he took to Afghanistan - members of a guerilla army who were also encouraged and armed by the United States - and who were forgotten when that war was over?
bin Ladin: "Personally neither I nor my brothers saw evidence of American help...
Fisk interview, 1996
Oh dear.....0 -
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Brown Bomber wrote: »Assuming bin Laden worked for the CIA at the time you expected him to just open up in a western newspaper interview and casually give the game away?:pac::pac::pac::pac:
:rolleyes::(:(:P:P:D;):p 0 -
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I think this fits in here. It's in line with the clash of civilisations they are trying to create.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2010/06/ground-zero-mosque-why-you-should.htmlMonday, June 21, 2010
The "Ground Zero Mosque:" Why you should really be angry.
By Tony Cartalucci
June 22, 2010
The anger and disbelief that most Americans feel may seem reasonable when they hear a
mosque will be built next to "ground zero" in New York City. After all, this was the site of the September 11, 2001 attacks, supposedly perpetrated by "Muslim extremists" that saw three towers implode on themselves at the cost of nearly three thousand lives. The fact that the mosque, officially known as the Cordoba House, is being built as a "tribute" and will be opening on September 11, 2011 is so deliberately inciting and audacious, that more discerning Americans found it suspicious.
What these more discerning Americans found when investigating the "Ground Zero Mosque" and the organization behind it, the Cordoba Initiative, will shock you, anger you, and honestly, should scare you.
The Mainstream Media Weighs In
Peter Worthington of the Toronto Sun's "Ground Zero mosque an ill tribute to 9/11 victims"
Jeff Jacoby of the Boston Globe's " A mosque at ground zero?"
Considering the headlines, the media acknowledges the inflammatory, easily misconstrued intentions of the Cordoba Initiative. The media only speculates as to why the Cordoba Initiative is so seemingly ignorant of the perceptions many Americans have of their plans.
America is divided along two predictable knee-jerk reactions. One is of anger, hatred, and a call for a tougher hardline approach to an expanding "clash of civilizations" between the West and Islam. Another is one of unconditional tolerance. What neither side did, including the pundits feeding both sides, was take five minutes to research who was funding the Cordoba Initiative and who founded it in the first place.
Behind the Cordoba House
The Cordoba Initiative was founded by 'Imam' Feisal Abdul Rauf, who is also sitting on the Council on Foreign Relations' Religious Advisory Committee and the World Economic Forum's Council of 100. Cited as "Christian support for the Cordoba House" on the Cordoba Initiative's website, is an article from Jim Wallis' Christian publication, "Sojourners." Jim Wallis also sits on the CFR's Religious Advisory Committee. Conflict of interest doesn't enter the "Imam's" vocabulary when it comes to rubber stamping "Christian support" on his project.
http://cordobainitiative.wordpress.com/2010/06/11/supporting-article-in-sojourners/
http://www.cfr.org/about/outreach/religioninitiative/advisory_board.html
The Cordoba Initiative is partners with the American Society for Muslim Advancement (ASMA), who Feisal Abdul Rauf also chairs, and under which the site for the $100 million Cordoba House was purchased. The list of financial supporters for the ASMA reads like a who's who of globalist foundations and includes the Carnegie Corporation of New York, the Ford Foundation, Rockefeller Brothers, Rockefeller Philanthropy, and the Rockefeller Brothers Fund.
http://www.cordobainitiative.org/?q=content/ci-partners
http://www.asmasociety.org/about/p_support.html
The CFR Connection
But it was Feisal Abdul Rauf's Council on Foreign Relations connection that is most striking. The CFR is a corporate think-tank that supplies our elected representatives with a steady stream of policy and whose membership consists not of intellectual thinkers, but of notorious policy wonks, globalist mega-corporations and bankers. Below is a list of a few of the CFR's corporate members.
http://www.cfr.org/about/corporate/roster.html
Bank of America
Goldman Sachs
Chevron Corporation
Exxon Mobil Corporation
General Electric Company
JPMorgan Chase & Company
Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co.
Lockheed Martin Corporation
Morgan Stanley
Shell Oil Company
Rockefeller Group International, Inc.
The Blackstone Group L.P.
Boeing Company
DynCorp International
KBR
Raytheon Company
Rothschild North America, Inc.
Many of these corporations have made trillions of dollars from the Iraq and Afghan wars, some even played integral parts in calling for the wars. Two of which, Veritas' DynCorp and KBR are in the top ten list of corporations profiting from the war in Iraq.
If the public can be played right, they all stand to make trillions more with an invasion of Iran, the subsequent rebuilding of its shattered infrastructure and the seizure of their southern oil fields. The Bill of Rights being repealed in the wake of this "war on terror" and justified with this continued "clash of civilizations" has enabled the various bankers on the above list to loot America and Europe with impunity and neutralize those who rise up in protest as "domestic terrorists."0 -
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