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Fake Al-Qaeda provoking Islamaphobia

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  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Because if they could make it from ceramic then dont you think it would exsist?

    I do think they exist, but not openly. I'm not saying ceramic firearms are better than metals in any situatuation other than covert ops.

    Such as posing as as a tourist/photo journalist in the Mexican Parliament building with bomb-making equipment, fake Pakistani passports and a firearm.

    Except you need it to pass the metal detector, so it is modified in CIA/MOSSAD labs for this purpose. In fact, the only time anyone would ever need one was if they wanted to bring a gun where they shouldn't. That is why they are outlawed in the States to all bar the intelligence services.

    Do you honestly think it is likely that anyone would enter a government building with a bomb if they didn't intend to use it?

    The modified handgun I presume was for defensive purposes if the **** hit the fan.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,406 ✭✭✭PirateShampoo


    Read this.

    http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/22ndISB2005/wednesday/burton.pdf

    From what i gather ul never have a standalone ceramic Barrel, and the ceramic here is used for a heat sink for a longer firing capacity, theres is also problems with the cutting of the interior of the barrel as all metal barrels have a spiral cut inside them to spin the bullet as it leaves the barrel for more accuracy.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Read this.

    http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/22ndISB2005/wednesday/burton.pdf

    From what i gather ul never have a standalone ceramic Barrel, and the ceramic here is used for a heat sink for a longer firing capacity, theres is also problems with the cutting of the interior of the barrel as all metal barrels have a spiral cut inside them to spin the bullet as it leaves the barrel for more accuracy.

    Thanks. I will...


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,406 ✭✭✭PirateShampoo


    Its a good read from the bits i can understand.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭Di0genes


    Do you ever give up?

    Ceramics are used for protection against heat on the space shuttles, and they can't according to you take the operational temperature of firing a few rounds from a pistol?

    There is nothing else left to say on this.

    Except for one little thing


    GLOCKS AREN'T MADE FROM CERAMICS


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    OK, you have seen every Glock ever made and none of them contain any ceramic components?

    I applaud your attention to detail


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    Using ceramics has a heat shield and using them for a barrel of a gun is 2 different things.

    Ceramics cant withstand the explosive force of the bullet. It would shatter.

    piston.jpg
    Ceramic Piston;)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭Di0genes


    OK, you have seen every Glock ever made and none of them contain any ceramic components?

    I applaud your attention to detail

    Shifting the goalposts much, the claim was this specific model was designed and made from ceramics to avoid metal detectors. Yourself and Brown Bomber are leaping into contortions to try and prove that a ceramic gun is impossible, when if you remember back it was stated that this gun was made from ceramic.

    I'd leave the goalposts they're fine where they were.. :rolleyes:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    OK So, you've checked THAT Glock and can confirm that its not Ceramic????

    So can we presume the Mexican Parliment dosnt have Security screening at the door then, and its not uncommon for people to slp by with Firearms??

    Thats whats interestin about this Particular incident, that and thefact that they were Israeli posing as Pakistanis.

    the whether or not its possible to make a weapon that can be used to evade metal detectors is a seperate semirelated but equally interesting topic


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭Di0genes


    OK So, you've checked THAT Glock and can confirm that its not Ceramic????

    Other posters already have done this on this thread already. Jesus man.


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  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    FFS man, read the posts including your own.

    I brought up ceramics because you made this claim.
    Di0genes wrote: »
    You understand that the reason firearms are mainly made out of steel/metal is that they are the only substances capable of handling the heat of rapidly fired firearms.

    End of story. So if you could cut out all this aggressive posturing it'd be nice because its irritatiting.

    Here you've just lost the run of yourself. This statement is a contradiction.
    Di0genes wrote: »
    Shifting the goalposts much, the claim was this specific model was designed and made from ceramics to avoid metal detectors. Yourself and Brown Bomber are leaping into contortions to try and prove that a ceramic gun is impossible, when if you remember back it was stated that this gun was made from ceramic.

    YOU: "the claim was this specific model was designed and made from ceramics to avoid metal detectors."

    That is a lie. No it wasn't, please check your facts.

    The claim was made by Beatriz Paredes (and repeated by me for the I don't know how many time)

    "the Glock pistol was specially made of plastic to evade detection systems. "


    Now I ask you for the 2nd time have you any reason to doubt the statement of the then President of the Mexican Chamber of deputies that other than the scientific limitations that YOU YOURSELF have placed based on YOUR OWN LIMITED KNOWLEDGE?

    Perhaps you a better able to speak on the subject than Paredes or the guard who tackled the Israelis?

    And please explain what you mean by "your lurid conspiracy theory".


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Di0genes wrote: »
    Other posters already have done this on this thread already. Jesus man.
    No they haven't. Are we reading the same thread?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭Di0genes


    So it's back to plastic guns now is it.

    Simple questions. Do Glocks make any firearms entirely out of plastic or other material? Answer no.

    Do you regularly go out of your way to find Jews at fault for all the worlds problems? Yes.

    Can I find a single reputable source for the spurious claims about this conspiracy and plot? No.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Di0genes wrote: »
    So it's back to plastic guns now is it.

    Simple questions. Do Glocks (OPENLY) make any firearms entirely out of plastic or other material? Answer no. ].

    Correct.

    However, is it feasible that Glock have made a perhaps even single shot polymer pistol? Answer Yes

    Or the R&D dept of some intelligence agency has managed to modify the already polymer framed Glock to evade detection from metal detectors? Answer Yes

    Is it possible that there have been secret technological developments that Diogenes is unaware of? Answer Yes.
    Di0genes wrote: »
    Do you regularly go out of your way to find Jews at fault for all the worlds problems? Yes. .
    Answer No.

    Are Al-Qaeda's Adam Gadahn and El-Khattab formerly of revolutionmuslim.com former Jews? Answer Yes.

    Do I have anything to do with them being former Jews? No.

    Were the two Israelis caught red-handed in the middle of bombing the Mexican Parliament Jewish? Answer I don't know

    Do I care? Answer No.
    Di0genes wrote: »
    Can I find a single reputable source for the spurious claims about this conspiracy and plot? No.
    Answer Yes

    Read the thread again.

    Am I tired of repeating myself and spoon-feeding you information? Answer Yes

    Did I find this thread interesting before the tone was lowered? Answer Yes

    Do I regret this? Answer Yes


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭Di0genes


    Correct.

    However, is it feasible that Glock have made a perhaps even single shot polymer pistol? Answer Yes

    Or the R&D dept of some intelligence agency has managed to modify the already polymer framed Glock to evade detection from metal detectors? Answer Yes

    Is it possible that there have been secret technological developments that Diogenes is unaware of? Answer Yes.

    So you're speculating and guessing. Is it possible that Glocks make phaser? Or a gun that shoots hugs! I dunno, but you can't prove they not made it.

    Desperate straw reaching.
    Answer No.

    Are Al-Qaeda's Adam Gadahn and El-Khattab formerly of revolutionmuslim.com former Jews? Answer Yes.

    Do I have anything to do with them being former Jews? No.
    Were the two Israelis caught red-handed in the middle of bombing the Mexican Parliament Jewish? Answer I don't know

    Do I care? Answer No.

    Answer Yes

    Then way raise their religion. Infact aside from lurid idiotic conspiracy sites I see no source for this story. Where the men convicted of these crimes? How did Aztlan.net find out they were mossad so quickly? Did this even happen?
    Read the thread again.

    Am I tired of repeating myself and spoon-feeding you information? Answer Yes

    Did I find this thread interesting before the tone was lowered? Answer Yes

    Do I regret this? Answer Yes


    Then goodbye.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Di0genes wrote: »
    So you're speculating and guessing. .

    Wrong. You are speculating based on nothing but the belief that you have that it is not possible when Beatriz Paredes, President of the Mexican Chamber of deputies said:

    "the Glock pistol was specially made of plastic to evade detection systems. "

    No you have dismissed this based on the faith of your beliefs. Not very skeptical of you, is it?
    Di0genes wrote: »
    Is it possible that Glocks make phaser? Or a gun that shoots hugs! I dunno, but you can't prove they not made it.

    Desperate straw reaching. .
    Not going to dignify that with a response.
    Di0genes wrote: »
    Then way raise their religion. .
    Because Jews have a proven history of impersonating Muslims to push an anti-Islam agenda. History repeats itself. EDIT: Nothing to do with actual religion though, more to sides in a conflict, much like the situation in the North.
    Di0genes wrote: »
    Infact aside from lurid idiotic conspiracy sites I see no source for this story. Where the men convicted of these crimes? How did Aztlan.net find out they were mossad so quickly .

    This has all been addressed and I have no intention of going over it again. The sources have been A Mexican Government official site, respected Mexican mainstream media organisations and some but very little CT sites.
    Di0genes wrote: »
    Did this even happen?
    :D:D

    Ha, for someone who knows so much you know very little.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    The key term is phobia, an irrational fear:

    web.0203islam6.jpg

    muslims1.JPG

    islam4kids.jpg

    propaganda-4.jpg

    capt.sri10209151139.india_kashmir_pope_protest_sri102.jpg

    This image is of Theo van Gogh, lying dead in the street with a knife in his chest:

    http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/attachments/off-topic-forum/91786d1257449884-one-place-earth-not-destroyed-2012-theovangogh.jpg

    Fresh news:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8676351.stm

    An irrational fear.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    The key term is phobia, an irrational fear:

    :D:D No its not. Islamaphobia has nothing to do with fear of Islam. It is about prejudice against Islam - Which I might add you seem to support based on your last post.

    Do you think homophobia is a fear of homosexuals too? :D

    Here is a definition of Islamaphobia
    1) Islam is seen as a monolithic bloc, static and unresponsive to change.
    2) Islam is seen as separate and 'other'. It does not have values in common with other cultures, is not affected by them and does not influence them.
    3) Islam is seen as inferior to the West. It is seen as barbaric, irrational, primitive and sexist.
    4) Islam is seen as violent, aggressive, threatening, supportive of terrorism and engaged in a 'clash of civilisations'.
    5) Islam is seen as a political ideology and is used for political or military advantage.
    6) Criticisms made of the West by Islam are rejected out of hand.
    7) Hostility towards Islam is used to justify discriminatory practices towards Muslims and exclusion of Muslims from mainstream society.
    8) Anti-Muslim hostility is seen as natural or normal.

    So in short it has nothing to do with fear, irrational or otherwise


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    The key term is phobia, an irrational fear:


    An irrational fear.

    Is this representative of you?

    _41375732_lonecoppacred.jpg

    pd667046.jpg


    104267956_ca7e646447.jpg

    Or would it be irrational for an outsider to fear you and be prejudiced against you (assuming you are Irish) based on these scenes?


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    web.0203islam6.jpg

    Notice how all the plaqards have clearly been written by one single person?

    Notice how the majority seem to be in the middle, have their faces uncovered, carry no hate-filled plaqard and importantly pay no attention to the photographer(s)
    muslims1.JPG

    Yeah smile for the Western media you hate so much:rolleyes:
    islam4kids.jpg

    This admittedly is disturbing but it is clearly a photoshoot to be used for propoganda regardless of who has staged it. Without context it could be anything, a TV show even. Spot the guy in between the two blokes on the right? He must've forgot his evil terrorist costume that day.
    propaganda-4.jpg

    Again without context this could be anything. Celebrating a penalty shootout victory, a scene from a movie, a yoga class...anything.
    capt.sri10209151139.india_kashmir_pope_protest_sri102.jpg

    Glad you brought this joker up. His name is Shakeel Ahmed and he is a professional protestor from Kashmir :D He is always on hand when our western media need a good shot of an Angy Muslim. He even has his own nickname Islamic Rage Boy.

    See here for his professional portfolio:
    http://snappedshot.com/archives/964-Professional-Protester,-Jihadi-style.html


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Saw this, and thought of you:

    2007-03-19.jpg

    Fair play to you on dodging the most pertinent links, as if they did not exist.

    It was to be expected. Here, I will let you do it again:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0516/breaking9.html

    'Religion of Peace'


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    and what may I ask is this Point????


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Saw this, and thought of you:



    Fair play to you on dodging the most pertinent links, as if they did not exist.

    It was to be expected. Here, I will let you do it again:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0516/breaking9.html

    'Religion of Peace'

    :D:D:D

    Please point out in the article where it says Muslims committed the arson attack?
    If you can't I'll have to assume you have a prejudice against Islam (see definition above :)) is clouding your judgement.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber



    'Religion of Peace'

    Lets ignore the atrocities of atheists Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot for a second...

    Your fixation on Islam is troubling. I am aware Muslims kill people, I am aware there are Islamic terrorists also. I am also aware enough to realise that they are not alone. By far the most terrorist attacks in the EU are by seperatists, primarily Basque. In the US for example,
    There were 51 total plots by domestic non-Muslim perpetrators against the United States, and 29 total plots by domestic and international Muslim perpetrators since 9/11.

    Only 42% of individuals publicly associated with terrorism by the Department of Justice were actually charged with violating an anti-terrorism or national security statute.

    There have been at least 4 cases of non-Muslim domestic terrorists possessing or attempting to possess Chemical or Radiological weapons, including one case since Obama’s election. No such cases involving Muslim extremists have been reported.

    Since Obama’s election on November 4, 2008 there have been 25 terror plots by non-Muslim domestic extremists and 9 plots by Muslim domestic and international extremists.
    http://files.e2ma.net/2785/assets/docs/mpac_terrorism_data_memo__mar2010_.pdf

    Fake Al-Qaeda or not, it is pretty clear that terrorism is not exclusively carried out by Muslims no matter how much the media pretends, though obviously it works on some.

    And even if it were, which it is not, even then it would be extremely Islamaphobic to think that all Muslims are terrorists, or potential terrorists.

    Your cartoon makes no argument, your isolated incidents make no argument. I could link to isolated incidents too to pretend I have a point.

    West Bank rabbi: Jews can kill Gentiles who threaten Israel


    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/news/west-bank-rabbi-jews-can-kill-gentiles-who-threaten-israel-1.4496

    Right group urges censure of Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu for calls to 'hang children of Mercaz Harav gunman from tree.'

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/safed-chief-rabbi-calls-on-state-to-exact-revenge-against-arabs-1.242746

    See?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6300L820100401

    a Bit of christian Fundamentalist insanity.

    do you think the muslims hold the monopoly on Crazy??????


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭Di0genes


    Lets ignore the atrocities of atheists Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot for a second...

    Your fixation on Islam is troubling. I am aware Muslims kill people, I am aware there are Islamic terrorists also. I am also aware enough to realise that they are not alone. By far the most terrorist attacks in the EU are by seperatists, primarily Basque. In the US for example,

    While the Basque movement has killed 800 odd people in it's 40 year existance. Al Qaeda killed nearly 200 with a single bombing in Madrid.

    Some perspective please.
    http://files.e2ma.net/2785/assets/docs/mpac_terrorism_data_memo__mar2010_.pdf

    Fake Al-Qaeda or not, it is pretty clear that terrorism is not exclusively carried out by Muslims no matter how much the media pretends, though obviously it works on some.

    You're really saying that on an Irish forum?

    No ONE is saying terrorist is the exclusive domain of muslims.
    And even if it were, which it is not, even then it would be extremely Islamaphobic to think that all Muslims are terrorists, or potential terrorists.

    Your cartoon makes no argument, your isolated incidents make no argument. I could link to isolated incidents too to pretend I have a point.

    West Bank rabbi: Jews can kill Gentiles who threaten Israel


    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/news/west-bank-rabbi-jews-can-kill-gentiles-who-threaten-israel-1.4496

    Right group urges censure of Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu for calls to 'hang children of Mercaz Harav gunman from tree.'

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/safed-chief-rabbi-calls-on-state-to-exact-revenge-against-arabs-1.242746

    See?

    This is pretty much a dictionary description of a stawman. Your original points were about a fake Al Qaeda organised by jews. Now it's "other people can be terrorists too"


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Di0genes wrote: »
    While the Basque movement has killed 800 odd people in it's 40 year existance. Al Qaeda killed nearly 200 with a single bombing in Madrid.

    Some perspective please.



    You're really saying that on an Irish forum?

    No ONE is saying terrorist is the exclusive domain of muslims.



    This is pretty much a dictionary description of a stawman. Your original points were about a fake Al Qaeda organised by jews. Now it's "other people can be terrorists too"

    Please don't dodge this question.

    Do you consider

    'Religion of Peace'

    Placed in scare quotes directly implying that Islam is a religon of death and destruction is Islamaphobic?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭Di0genes


    Please don't dodge this question.

    Do you consider



    Placed in scare quotes directly implying that Islam is a religon of death and destruction is Islamaphobic?

    Depends on the interpretation of Islam. IRA terrorists were predominately catholic, did they carry out their attacks to promote catholicism?

    Similarly some Islamic extremists carry out terrorist attacks with the hope that this will help them get a world run under Sharia Law.

    Does this mean all catholics are terrorists? Or all Muslims want a world run under sharia law.

    To be honest I find your reductionism and simplification of these complicated issues just daft.

    Do the majority of Muslims live peaceful lives? Yes.

    Have terrorist attacks been carried out by Muslims in the name of Islam? Yes.

    Stop getting bogged down in pendantic side arguments.

    Al Qaeda is real. Muslim extremists are real. And Jews or any other group doesn't need to go around pretending to be Al Qaeda.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Di0genes wrote: »
    While the Basque movement has killed 800 odd people in it's 40 year existance. Al Qaeda killed nearly 200 with a single bombing in Madrid.

    Some perspective please.



    You're really saying that on an Irish forum?

    No ONE is saying terrorist is the exclusive domain of muslims.



    This is pretty much a dictionary description of a stawman. Your original points were about a fake Al Qaeda organised by jews. Now it's "other people can be terrorists too"

    Please tell me how the hypothesis of paid agitators/intelligence agents posing as Islamic terrorists to demonise Muslims is contradicted by the fact of non-related worlwide terrorist attacks.

    You say no one is saying terrorism is the exclusive domain of Muslims, I agree, Don't know why you are raising this though :confused:, I was merely demonstrating that not all terrorist attacks are fase-flag intelligence op's. But to demonise all Muslims and lap up the media bull**** to judtify wiping out an innocent Pakistani family is highly ignorant.

    To demonstrate the blurred lines I'd share with you the story of Khalid Khawaja.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/17/pakistan-taliban-hostage-murder-tape

    Khawaja was a mujahadeen (setup by the CIA) fighter, bin Laden's (setup by the CIA) personal pilot and close associate, "former" ISI (extension of the CIA) agent, and was killed last month by the PTT (Creation of the CIA) for being a CIA collaborator.

    This is what he had to say in a 2005 interview:
    Khalid Khawaja: In fact, the issue is terrorism. It is states and governments which sponsor terrorism to begin with, and subjects become the ultimate victims, and then a vicious cycle of terror rotates. In this state-sponsored crime there is no exception, and Pakistan, India, the US and Israel all have the same role.

    Many of us call it a battle between East and West, between the Islamic and Judeo-Christian world, but it is neither of these. It is in fact the ruling regimes that want to dictate their will, and then they exploit [people] in various ways. Sometimes in the garb of monarchy, sometimes for democracy, and sometimes for dictatorship.

    Ninety percent of people accept to be ruled, but there always remain some elements who refuse to succumb. They fight for freedom and resist till their last. However, in this conflict of two minorities - those who impose their will and those who resist it - the majority remains the sole victim. Yet people talk about Islam versus Christianity or Judaism. The basic theme remains the same. There is a group of people who want to impose their will, whether they happen to be Christian or Muslim, and there is a group of people who want to resist, and there is a silent majority which is trampled in between.
    KK: In Afghanistan's case, a similar game was carried out on a massive scale when Muslim youths from all over the world were brought in by Pakistan and the US [to fight against the Soviets in the 1980s]. They were tools for the empires' proxy war. The name of jihad was used. The state religion in those days supported jihad against India [in Kashmir] and the USSR [in Afghanistan]. However, once jihad was established, the states did not have any way to convince Muslims that jihad was only against the USSR and India, and not against the US.

    Now, again, it is a question of a state imposing its will. The message is clear: if you are against us, we will kill you and your sympathizers. In this state terrorism, there is no exception, be it Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Pakistan, India, the US or Israel. All are the same.




    EDIT- ANOTHER EXAMPLE
    The Australian
    Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:42 EDT
    INDONESIAN police or military officers may have played a role in the 2002 Bali bombing, the country's former president, Abdurrahman Wahid has said.

    In an interview with SBS's Dateline program to be aired tonight, on the third anniversary of the bombing that killed 202 people, Mr Wahid says he has grave concerns about links between Indonesian authorities and terrorist groups.

    While he believed terrorists were involved in planting one of the Kuta night club bombs, the second, which destroyed Bali's Sari Club, had been organised by authorities.

    Asked who he thought planted the second bomb, Mr Wahid said: "Maybe the police ... or the armed forces."

    "The orders to do this or that came from within our armed forces, not from the fundamentalist people," he says.

    The program also claims a key figure behind the formation of terror group Jemaah Islamiah was an Indonesian spy.

    Former terrorist Umar Abduh, who is now a researcher and writer, told Dateline Indonesian authorities had a hand in many terror groups.

    "There is not a single Islamic group either in the movement or the political groups that is not controlled by (Indonesian) intelligence," he said.
    - http://www.sott.net/articles/show/142070-Police-had-role-in-Bali-blasts-Former-Indonesian-President

    Of course the CIA has a long history with Indonesian intelligence. This just scratches the surface.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Indonesia


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  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Di0genes wrote: »
    Depends on the interpretation of Islam.

    No it doesn't. It was a simple question that required a simple answer.

    Do you think referring to Islam as a "religion of peace" in scae quotes is Islamaphobic or do you agree with the statement.

    Two possible answers.


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