Fake Al-Qaeda provoking Islamaphobia

robtri

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I just post them in an as truthful way as possible. If you are uncomfortable with the truth I am sorry but that is your own problem.

I have no agenda with any thing.

I've been thinking and to be fair trying put myself in your position.

You believe that Muslim extremists from Al-Qaeda led by bin Laden carried out the 911 attacks. Therefore, you think I should too. Logically if I believe differently to you based on the same facts my opinion must be prejudiced.

I believe that the CIA and friends carried out the attack based on my interpretation of the available evidence. Also, Muslims have in no way whatsoever benifitted from the attacks. Who has benifited is the military industrial complex, the oil corporations, the international drug traffickers (CIA) and Israel. Also, it has enabled the passing of the Patriot Act in the US, removing freedoms of its citizens. Al-Qaeda could not possibly be more useful to neo-con interests if they tried.

I assume we can both agree that Al-Qaeda was a CIA creation, and where we differ is that you think they went rogue and suddenly started hating infidel Americans.

"The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the 'devil' only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US . . ." -- Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook

(He died soon after)

I don't believe Al-Qaeda exists. I believe they are a CIA fabricated entity with Osama as the existensial boogey-man to justify Imperialism.

Here is a report of Israel creating a Palestinian fake Al-Qaeda cell
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=3544



Here is a report from October 2001 of a foiled Israeli false-flag attempt to blow up the Mexican congress which would have been blamed on Al-Qaeda (to get Mexico to go along with the 'war on terror"?)
http://www.aztlan.net/mexmossad.htm the US . . ."

Now what you have been presented with is Israel posing as Al-Qaeda and Israel attempting to commit a false-flag attack in a single year. These are just two in catalogue of reasons why I believe Pearlman is a Mossad/CIA hoax - to perputuate and justify their brutal oppression as that is only purpose I can see from any of the "Al-Qaeda" videos, including the clearly fake bin-laden tapes.

page two and you already have brought up Israel again.....
change the record....
this is becoming tiresome...

studiorat

Brown Bomber wrote: »

HAHA. I wouldn't know but I do wish you post your there instead. You whinged about the source, I gave you an official source and yet you still whinge and mud-sling,

Like I said I don't know where else it is posted but what does it matter even? IT HAPPENED.

You should be grateful I thought you something you didn't know, despite your attitude.It is a sign of the mainstream press that this story was not published.

That you put two and two together and come up with 500 because of your prejudice?

One was a former employee of Mossad, for all you know he worked in the bleeding copy room. And an Israeli who lived in Mexico.

Have you considered for a moment that they could be working on their own? A much more likely scenario considering their MO.

If Israel ran 911 they they didn't use Israeli citizens. So why use Israeli citizens in Mexico.

I think your prejudice is clouding what little judgment you do have.

humanji

[/B]Studiorat, you think they're anti-semetic. You've made your remark, now you no longer need to say it in every single post. So stop![/B]

Brown Bomber

robtri wrote: »

page two and you already have brought up Israel again.....
change the record....
this is becoming tiresome...

I can't win with you. Those details gave context to the idea of a fake Al-Qaeda. If I don't post evidence and accuse I am prejudiced; If I do post evidence I am prejudiced for posting the evidence,

Can you not see the clear contradiction?

Also, you and others only seem to take the high horse when Israel is alleged to be involved in a conspiracy. Why is that?

The Mossad are no more Israeli than lets say NASA are American, didn't see you complaining on the moon landing threads making accusations on anti-americanism, or when the Catholic Church was getting attacked, or any other non-Israel related thread.

Finally, have you any points to make on any aspect of the OP?

Brown Bomber

studiorat wrote: »

That you put two and two together and come up with 500 because of your prejudice?

Rather than admit you were wrong you try to save face and hurl false accusations.

You clearly had no notion of the Mexican Congress' attempted bombing, otherwise you wouldn't have asked for links.

studiorat wrote: »

One was a former employee of Mossad, for all you know he worked in the bleeding copy room. And an Israeli who lived in Mexico.

Do you even read the links. The "One" that you refer to is Salvador Gersson Smike a former "Israeli Security Security Services Colonel" (retired at 34 :rolleyes:), So, hardly working in the copy room. The other was Sar Ben-Zui who is a suspected Mossad member.

studiorat wrote: »

Have you considered for a moment that they could be working on their own? A much more likely scenario considering their MO.

I've considered it, but it doesn't add up. I'd be facinated to hear why you think it is a much more likely scenario and what their purpose was.

Especially as they followed the route of all Israeli spies in friendly nations - Snook out in top secret in a media blackout for visa violations.

studiorat wrote: »

If Israel ran 911 they they didn't use Israeli citizens. So why use Israeli citizens in Mexico.

I don't intend to get into 911 but you can be sure there was a great many Israeli citizens connected to 911 as far back to 96 and Netanyahu's "A Clean Break". In fact I believe the first people arrested in connection to the attacks on the WTC were Israeli.

They used Israeli citizens (with Palestinian collaborators) to murder Al-Mabhouh as another example

studiorat wrote: »

I think your prejudice is clouding what little judgment you do have.

Little judgement? Its a step up I guess.

robtri

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I can't win with you. Those details gave context to the idea of a fake Al-Qaeda. If I don't post evidence and accuse I am prejudiced; If I do post evidence I am prejudiced for posting the evidence,

Can you not see the clear contradiction?

Also, you and others only seem to take the high horse when Israel is alleged to be involved in a conspiracy. Why is that?

I take no high horse when israel is involved and will declare them to be a shower of bastards..
but just on a side note:
you have started 8 threads.....
each one you have found a way to turn the thread for you to put your boot in against Israel...

thats 8 threads you started to talk about your anti israel bashing...

so forgive me if i am skeptical about anything you post here in relation to your own personal agenda........

Brown Bomber

uprising2 wrote: »

Yea quite possible Bomber, remember public enemy number 1 was visited by a CIA operative in an american hospital in Dubai not long before 9/11, had he been captured as some fbi and cia agents wanted that would have thrown a spanner in the works.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism

It was an American Hospital in Dubai and according to Le Figaro he was visited by a known CIA agent, probably collecting his paycheck.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/RIC111B.html

And Fisk interviewed him in person , and so did somebody from Time.

uprising2 wrote: »

Funnily the FBI were kicking in doors in Finglas, Dublin a while before that looking for Bin laden.
I cant find anything from before 2001 just now but I remem
ber clearly hearing it on FM104 news about 1998-1999 that the FBI were in my home town looking for Osama Bin Laden over the uss cole.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/irishbased-charity-has-links-with-terrorists-510439.html

I remember that too, just thought it was funny at the time. I worked in a shop while I was at school then and I used to read every paper that came in. Finglas is one place that should be shock and awed though;) Can hear Bush now...You are either with us or with the north-siders:D

Another musing I've had on Pearlman is perhaps he actually was captured by some rogue element of the ISI to embarass the Americans. Seems there are some pissed off Pakistani's with the constant drone attacks. The ISI was strongly linked to the deaths of the 7 CIA agents in Afghanistan.

Another would be that they did catch him and thought it'd be better to kill him, after they get everything out of him rather than have the courts decide to put him to death.

studiorat

You gave a very poorly translated source, allowing you to pre judge the situation to your own political bias.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Rather than admit you were wrong you try to save face and hurl false accusations.

You clearly had no notion of the Mexican Congress' attempted bombing, otherwise you wouldn't have asked for links.

I didn't ask for links. I asked you did you concurr with the Na'vi picture I linked to from the same site. Though I'm sure I may have questioned the bias of the site.
So you posted this:

Zionist Terrorists Arrested
Inside Mexican Congress

MOSSAD Colonel Salvador Guersson Smecke and Saur Ben Zvi were armed and carrying bomb materials

And just to get a little perspective lets take a look at some of the other headlines on the same site :

Israeli MOSSAD assassinates high level Hamas official

Zionists target Muslim students at UC Irvine

And all the usual...

I won't even bother mentioning David Irving and Stormfront. We all know the angle they will take...

Now lets look at the same story reported from some coverage of the same story without the suppisition and innuendo.

Agence France Presse October 13, 2001 Saturday

HEADLINE:
Man investigated after suspicious attempt to enter Mexico's Congress

DATELINE:
MEXICO CITY, Oct 13


Mexican authorities are investigating the immigration status of an Israeli who tried to gain access to Congress carrying material that could be used to make explosives, judicial authorities said Saturday.



"Saer Ben-Zvi or Saar Noam Ben Zvi" is being held at a jail in Mexico Citywhile his legal status is examined, the chief prosecutor's office said in a statement. The man was detained near the Chamber of Deputies, carrying a briefcase of "tubes and cables" which potentially could be used to put together an explosive device.



Authorities are examining how he entered Mexico, a spokeswoman said. A Mexican man, Salvador Gersson Smeck, who was detained along with the suspect for carrying a nine-millimeter pistol in Wednesday's incident, was
released for lack of evidence.

A security guard detained them after becoming suspicious about the way they were behaving. The two said they belonged to a private security firm and were planning on offering their services to lawmakers.

BBC Worldwide Monitoring, October 12, 2001, Friday
BBC Monitoring Latin America - Political

HEADLINE:
Mexico: Officials arrest armed Mexican, Israeli inside Congress building

SOURCE: Notimex news agency, Mexico City, in Spanish 0310 gmt 11 Oct 01


Mexico, 10 October local time : The judicial authorities have detained two armed men. Both are presumed to be former military personnel; one of them is an Israeli citizen. These individuals attempted to get into Congress the building , which is in the eastern part of Mexico City. The arrest of the
two individuals, one who said he was Mexican and the other Israeli, provoked a huge police mobilization this Wednesday 10 October at the Congressional headquarters, known as the San Lazaro Palace.


Ignacio Cabrera, the social communications adviser for the presidency of the Chamber of Deputies' board of directors, said that the detainees are the Mexican Salvador Gerson Smike, and the Israeli Sar Ben Zui.


The source reported that both detainees said that they work for the Development of Private Security Systems company.



He explained that these individuals were found with a firearm and other instruments. For this reason, the Chamber's legal department handed them over to the proper authorities for allegedly intending to commit a crime.


The two individuals were also carrying a briefcase, which contained cables and a tube, "but we don't know anything else and the authorities are the ones that must decide what follows. We also do not know if they were carrying dynamite," he said.

Cabrera commented that both individuals said they wanted to enter the Chamber of Deputies and that this is all they had said. Obviously, they will have to make a sworn statement before the Office of the Public Prosecutor.

Cabrera said that Luis Alarcon, a security officer of the Chamber, had detained the two men. Luis Alarcon mentioned that the detainees were carrying an automatic 9-mm pistol with three clips and what was thought to be a grenade, which turned out to be a lighter, as well as tubes and
cables.


The security officer explained that it has not yet been discovered how they had managed to enter the San Lazaro Legislative building but this matter and their motives for doing so are being investigated.

He was asked if the tubes and cables they were carrying could had been used to assemble an explosive device. He said that these materials could have been for making a grenade but this would have to be decided upon by the Office of the Public Prosecutor.


Luis Alarcon later said that one of the detainees does not speak English but that, through his partner, he said he is a colonel in the Israeli Special Forces. However, this could not be confirmed.


Former sugar refinery workers, who are conducting a sit-in inside San Lazaro, said that one of the individuals was posing as a photographer and taking pictures of everything around them. The sugar refinery workers said that both individuals were behaving in an odd manner, and upon taking a
more thorough look at one of them, they could tell he was armed.

The alleged criminals were handed over to personnel from the Office of the Prosecutor General, who will be in charge of the corresponding investigations.

NOT a grenade a Cigarette Lighter. No reports of Sugar Workers "capturing" the 2 men. NO reports of "scuffle" or resistance. Both 2 men went quietly.

It can't be confirmed or denied that the 2 men work for a private security firm (given the lack of media coverage after the fact, they probably do).

Mexican man was the ONLY one with a weapon and was released because of a lack of evidence.

Nothing about Zionists, Mossad, Terrorists or any of the other conspiracy trappings.

Brown Bomber

robtri wrote: »

I take no high horse when israel is involved and will declare them to be a shower of bastards..
but just on a side note:
you have started 8 threads.....
each one you have found a way to turn the thread for you to put your boot in against Israel...

thats 8 threads you started to talk about your anti israel bashing...

so forgive me if i am skeptical about anything you post here in relation to your own personal agenda........

I've tried to reason with you. I've made some very clear points on this more than once to you yet you never address the points I make, so I won't bother anymore. We are going to have to be in disagreement on this. I think your judgemental opinions on me are the result of mass-media and societal brain-washing and you lack the ability to think for yourself, and to have the courage to do so. I'm sure you would disagree.

You think I prejudiced, anti-semitic etc. I strongly refute that but perhaps you are correct, but I promise you I am certainly not aware of it.

So please no more comments on me or my motivations in future unless they are relevant to the topic.

Brown Bomber

Studiorat: none of those stories are linked.

Mods: Could this thread be split Mexico/Pearlman? Its gone way off topic here.

studiorat

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Studiorat: none of those stories are linked.

Mods: Could this thread be split Mexico/Pearlman? Its gone way off topic here.

There's full citations to those stories included.

Yitzhak Rabin

robtri wrote: »

I take no high horse when israel is involved and will declare them to be a shower of bastards..

To be fair, this is probably more prejudicial than anything BB has said in this thread.

Also thanks for the other articles studiorat, I was searching for a good while, but couldn't find anything on the incident, it certainly casts a different light on the topic.

Mahatma coat

Different Light???

it pretty much confirms what was said in the first Translated article
Gun, Bomb, suspected Grenade, Caught by Refinery workers vigilance, one Israeli and one Mexican (who Happens to be a retired Israeli colnel :rolleyes:)

and then the visa Irregularities coverup for the deportation.



feel free to mention Stormfront and Irving if you can show that they were Actually Wrong about any of this.

and what relevance is the Navii Palestinian Reference, I will admit to nt having seen the film yet, but arent they an oppressed people havin their land stolen by evil Colonists Supported by a Hi-tech Military?

studiorat

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Different Light???

it pretty much confirms what was said in the first Translated article
Gun, Bomb, suspected Grenade, Caught by Refinery workers vigilance, one Israeli and one Mexican (who Happens to be a retired Israeli colnel :rolleyes:)

No Bomb. No Grenade. Nothing about the Mexican being in the army. Not captured by workers. The gun was legally held. And no ZIONIST headline. Geddit?

Mahatma coat

Are we readin the same articles??????

"Saer Ben-Zvi or Saar Noam Ben Zvi" is being held at a jail in Mexico Citywhile his legal status is examined, the chief prosecutor's office said in a statement. The man was detained near the Chamber of Deputies, carrying a briefcase of "tubes and cables" which potentially could be used to put together an explosive device.

Cabrera said that Luis Alarcon, a security officer of the Chamber, had detained the two men. Luis Alarcon mentioned that the detainees were carrying an automatic 9-mm pistol with three clips and what was thought to be a grenade, which turned out to be a lighter, as well as tubes and
cables.

Luis Alarcon later said that one of the detainees does not speak English but that, through his partner, he said he is a colonel in the Israeli Special Forces. However, this could not be confirmed.

Former sugar refinery workers, who are conducting a sit-in inside San Lazaro, said that one of the individuals was posing as a photographer and taking pictures of everything around them. The sugar refinery workers said that both individuals were behaving in an odd manner, and upon taking a
more thorough look at one of them, they could tell he was armed.

See thats the bits I noticed,

but shur theres nothin unusual about takin a mate - who happens to be from the Middle East - to see the Sights,
Its only natural that you visit the Congress buildings as you tour the city,
Having a Handgun might even be a good idea in Mexico from what I've heard,
Theres even the possibility that the Grenade shaped lighter was purchased earlier that afternoon in a moment of jest at a novelty souviner stand or somesuch,
Tis even normal to take lots of pictures when sightseeing,
But Why in all fairness carry around a briefcase with "Tubes & Cables"???????

Brown Bomber

This is from Replicante a mainstream Mexican cultural and literary magazine. It has been well translated through Google.

Replicant bio on Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicante




Mexican journalist Gonzalo Soltero attempts to piece together the conflicting news reports.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.revistareplicante.com%2F17%2Findex.php%3Fsk%3Dart%26nm%3D211&sl=es&tl=en

The Chronicle - OCT 11 & 12

Glock 9 mm pistols, explosive bars, nine grenades, detonators, three magazines and 58 cartridges

El Diario de Mexico - OCT 11

carrying a suitcase with explosives and grenades

El Universal

9mm pistol, 3 magazines and a-box with unknown contents.

The Chronicle

Beatriz Paredes, president of the Chamber of Deputies, said: "As was said in the first bars were nine grenades and explosive addition of 58 bullets and three magazines were not explosives or gravity." However, he said that the Glock pistol was specially made of plastic to evade detection systems.

Two huge points IMO

"El Universal confirmed that Ben Zvi Sauar name is not on any of the records to local or federal level of private security companies. Another detail recorded by El Diario de Mexico, which then seemed to evaporate was that they found fake Pakistani passports when they were arrested.

Guersson Smeck was released two days after it was found that he had permission to carry weapons.Ben-Zvi was transferred briefly to the Prison North, not national security reasons but because they lacked the visa indicated, and left on October 13 after paying bail of 42 thousand 500 pesos.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.revistareplicante.com%2F17%2Findex.php%3Fsk%3Dart%26nm%3D211&sl=es&tl=en

Brown Bomber

By Mario Andrade

[SIZE=+1]The suspects were found by ex-sugarcane workers waiting for a congressional hearing in the legislative palace, whom Gersson Smike photographed numerous times until the protesting unionists noticed that he was armed with a sophisticated Glock 9 mm pistol, made with plastic material and very easy to smuggle.[/SIZE][SIZE=+1][/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]The unionists apprehended the suspects and later turned them in to the security staff in the House of Representatives. They were later transferred to the basement of the building where they waited for the "Ministerio Publico Federal (Federal Attorney General) to assume jurisdiction of the case.[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1][/SIZE] ...

However, according to the official reports of security personnel, both suspects were seen inside the legislative facility on Tuesday (THE DAY BEFORE THE ARREST), when then, they claimed to be photographers. ___

http://www.rense.com/general17/verb.htm

Brown Bomber

Translation by Mario Andrade

[SIZE=+1]It was on the Wednesday, October the 10th, 2001. It was shortly after 4 o'clock and the sugarcane workers were gathering around in the central patio. They usually gather themselves around the gardens and the great fountain. Suddenly, the calm was interrupted with someone yelling, "He's packing a gun! Get him!"[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1][/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]The man, wearing a suit, was walking among the sugarcane workers, just like the day before. He was aiming a shiny camera. One of the "sombrerudos" (men wearing sombreros), skinny, with dark skin - undoubtedly caused by the sunny Veracruz outdoors climate - approached the suit and angrily asked him, "Why are you taking pictures of us, ****er?"[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1][/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]The suit began getting nervous and evasive. He pointed his camera once again, and suddenly, another sugar worker yelled at him, "I see you're packing a gun, cabron!" His jacket accidentally opened and exposed his concealed handgun before the eyes of two or three more unionists. The suit ignored them and acted like nothing was happening; however, two other workers were already alerting the security guards. Without hesitation, the guards immediately ran towards the armed man. They immediately discovered that a second suspect was accompanying him.[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1][/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]The halls exploded with commotion and confusion. The crowd focused their attention on one of the men, probably in his mid-twenties, with light-complexion skin, light-colored eyes, and a bald spot, who previously, was taking pictures here and there. They later saw the other one, also light-skinned and athletically-built.[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1][/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]"Take the gun away from him!" said one of the "sombrerudo" workers. Then, a dozen or more security guards from San Lazaro came in and took them inside the security office in the basement. As they were rapidly walking towards the office, they found the man's camera. Then another sombrerudo yelled, "Get the gun, the one with the briefcase has it."[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1][/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]They later walked towards the corner of the patio and took them downstairs. They went around the building where the restaurant is located and finally reached the head of security office. Two more unionists cried "he's hiding a gun, don,t let him bull**** you!"[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1][/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]As they were going in, the last security guard literally removed the gun from the man's underwear in his lower back. He immediately emptied the gun in the middle of the legislative chamber of San Lazaro.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Salvador Ansalgo Trapaga, the agent that disarmed one of the suspects stated that the handgun was a 9 mm Glock (plastic) pistol, very hard to detect by the metal detectors at the entrance. Later, they said that the grenade turned out to be a cigarette lighter shaped like a grenade. However, the guards did mention that inside the briefcase was bomb making material, pipes and detonating cables.[/SIZE][SIZE=+1][/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]Shortly afterwards, a man claiming to be their supervisor at a security company stated to a reporter that they were "vacationing" and that was the reason they were taking pictures. A journalist lost his cool and shouted "That's bull****! Vacationing with a handgun?"[/SIZE]

http://www.rense.com/general17/mexbomb.htm

Di0genes

Brown Bomber wrote:

I assume we can both agree that Al-Qaeda was a CIA creation, and where we differ is that you think they went rogue and suddenly started hating infidel Americans.

That assumption is utterly false. Mujahideen were primarily funded by wealthy Saudis. Bin Laden for example started as simply a wealthy donor who travelled in Afghanistan in the 80s, as did thousands of Muslims around the world.

The CIA's involvment was for the most part channelled through the Pakistan ISI, to give them deniality. Plus it cheaper to outsource.

Let me ask you a question if the CIA was funding and controlling Al Qaeda, why in the immediate aftermath how come they had so few resources, knowledge or assets in the area? How come they lacked even translators? Do you think someone becomes an intelligence expert in a weekend? Do you not suppose that the rest of agencies would wonder were all those experts in the region people they've trained with, had disappeared to?

Nowhere in Al Qaeda's history did the CIA have direct involvment in it's founding or funding. I think you should read any reputable work on the organisation (by reputable I mean someone who's lived and worked as a journalist in the region for years, and not some nutcase in Texas who's actual experience of the region consists of once eating a Tandorri).

Start with Jason Burke's book. Al Qaeda.

Mahatma coat

Utterley False????

So it has nothing to do wit the Database which the Americans created of Assets in the Area during the Soviet occupation.

Where do Wealthy Saudis get their money From to give to these guys??

if it is really run by Saudis then Why didnt the Americans invade their Country??

studiorat

The suspects were found by ex-sugarcane workers waiting for a congressional hearing in the legislative palace, whom Gersson Smike photographed numerous times until the protesting unionists noticed that he was armed with a sophisticated Glock 9 mm pistol, made with plastic material and very easy to smuggle.

The Glock is about 80% steel. Smuggling it through metal detectors etc is nothing but a Myth.

The huge points in your opinion were made by an author who is self admittedly "obsessed by conspiracy theories". And then you quote Rense who think Monica Lewenski is an Israeli Agent FFS. You may as well be quoting from from Jim Corr.

All speculation to entertain the conspiracy theorist mindset as usual.

robtri

No Glock ever produced is all plastic.... this is a myth from a Die hard Movie...

Quote "This rumor might have gotten started (or maybe fueled) by a line from Bruce Willis in the movie 'Die Hard 2: Die Harder': "That punk pulled a Glock 7 on me! You know what that is? It's a porcelain gun made in Germany. It doesn't show up on your airport X-ray machines, and it cost more than you make here in a month." This is, of course, complete nonsense. A word to the wise: Don't believe everything you hear in a movie!"



all glocks produced conform Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988 - Public Law 100-649; 18 U.S.C. 922

This 1988 legislation banned the production and sale of any guns that are undetectable by metal detectors and X-ray machines (ie: the mythical all plastic gun).

Brown Bomber

studiorat wrote: »

The Glock is about 80% steel. Smuggling it through metal detectors etc is nothing but a Myth.

The huge points in your opinion were made by an author who is self admittedly "obsessed by conspiracy theories". And then you quote Rense who think Monica Lewenski is an Israeli Agent FFS. You may as well be quoting from from Jim Corr.

All speculation to entertain the conspiracy theorist mindset as usual.

LOL. This is from the official website of solicitors Barker Gillette who represented perhaps a Mossad agent with ADD who "forgot" to unpack his gun before hre travelled from Israel to the UK, he was acquitted of course.

The Defendant successfully but unwittingly, carried a loaded 9mm Steyr Mannlicher Pistol through Israel's Ben Gurion Airport and onto a British Airways plane before disembarking at Heathrow Airport. The pistol was discovered by security staff at Heathrow Airport 3 days later when the Defendant attempted to board a plane on an onward trip to New York.

These criminal proceedings revealed a new problem of airport x-ray machines being unable to detect modern weapons made partly of plastic materials - a fact first publicly raised by Mr Lehman's legal team at Trial.

http://www.barkergillette.com/news.php?nID=170

bonkey

I think its important to note the distinction here.

Several of the articles quoted stated the weapon was a Glock. People have responded that there is no Glock which is sufficiently plastic / non-metal to be as undetectable as claimed.

There are non-Glock weapons which are so built.

Steyr <> Glock.

So if the guy had a plastic 9mm, it wasn't a Glock. If he had a Glock 9mm it wasn't plastic.

robtri

Brown Bomber wrote: »

LOL. This is from the official website of solicitors Barker Gillette who represented perhaps a Mossad agent with ADD who "forgot" to unpack his gun before hre travelled from Israel to the UK, he was acquitted of course.



http://www.barkergillette.com/news.php?nID=170

very strange then it was detected at Heathrow.... so the gun in question here is dectable...
despite what a lawyer proclaims to help get his client of the hook...


Also considering this gun is sold in the US... it cannot by law be undectable by x ray machines...... and thats a fact....

Brown Bomber

studiorat wrote: »

The huge points in your opinion were made by an author who is self admittedly "obsessed by conspiracy theories".

Eh, ye wha? That Mexican journalist where both points came from never said such a thing.

And they were both originally printed by Mexican newspapers El Diario Del Mexico and El Universal

Two huge points IMO
Quote:
1. "El Universal confirmed that Ben Zvi Sauar name is not on any of the records to local or federal level of private security companies."

2. "Another detail recorded by El Diario de Mexico, which then seemed to evaporate was that they found fake Pakistani passports when they were arrested.

If it could be confirmed "that they found Pakistani passports" as reported it is a false-flag no question. Not only that it would be a declaration of war. Unfortunately there was a media blackout after the 14th or 15th.

studiorat wrote: »

And then you quote Rense who think Monica Lewenski is an Israeli Agent FFS. You may as well be quoting from from Jim Corr.

Ah-hem. Double-standards?

studiorat wrote: »

With all the talk of criticizing the post not the poster lately. Something has occured to me...

The conspiracy theorist mindset. It's a classic case of ignoring the message because of the messanger. It is my view that the conspiracy theorist in fact feels disenfranchised from the society as a whole. Hence they will have issue with all the facts presented by members of that society.

The "government" tells us something, and because the person disagrees with that "government" as a system or it's members, they automatically try to disprove any facts presented by that government. Despite the evidence being there, they will create arguments simply for the sake of disagreeing with that pov. To the extent that they will make the most irrational claims simply to oppose the "mans" point of view.

Feel free to question the translation of the originial Mexican source, or to offer an alternative translation. Otherwise, the attack on Rense is just a straw man argument and has no place in this discussion.

Brown Bomber

bonkey wrote: »

I think its important to note the distinction here.

Several of the articles quoted stated the weapon was a Glock. People have responded that there is no Glock which is sufficiently plastic / non-metal to be as undetectable as claimed.

There are non-Glock weapons which are so built.

Steyr <> Glock.

So if the guy had a plastic 9mm, it wasn't a Glock. If he had a Glock 9mm it wasn't plastic.

All I know about guns is that they kill people. The Steyr example proves in theory that guns can pass through scanners undetected. With this is mind I have no doubt that the Mossad version of Q could modify a similar handgun to likewise pass undetected. Begs the question why though? Perhaps a modified plastic glock is less detectable than an unmodified steyr.

EDIT: I looked up the Glock 9mm and they are "partly made of plastic materials"

from case above:

"These criminal proceedings revealed a new problem of airport x-ray machines being unable to detect modern weapons made partly of plastic materials "

Di0genes

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Utterley False????

So it has nothing to do wit the Database which the Americans created of Assets in the Area during the Soviet occupation.

An occupation that ended well over a decade before Sept 11th. How large was this database by the way?

Where do Wealthy Saudis get their money From to give to these guys??

Well for example Bin Laden's family was in construction. But most it's from that black liquid that comes out of the ground in large amounts in their country. Heard of the stuff?

if it is really run by Saudis then Why didnt the Americans invade their Country??

Several reasons.

1. While several Saudis are involved in Al Qaeda, theres no evidence of organisation between the Saudi Government and Al Qaeda. So to answer this point the reason they don't invade Saudi because of Al Qaeda, is the same reason why the UK government didn't Dublin during the troubles.

2. Technically they already have invaded, some of the largest US military bases in the world are already in Saudi Arabia. This incidentally is a major bone of contention in the Arab world. If the US tried military intervention for whatever reason in Saudi, the sight of US tanks in Mecca would be one of the most provocative things they could do, and would unify the entire Muslim world.

Brown Bomber

robtri wrote: »

very strange then it was detected at Heathrow.... so the gun in question here is dectable...
despite what a lawyer proclaims to help get his client of the hook...


Also considering this gun is sold in the US... it cannot by law be undectable by x ray machines...... and thats a fact....

Yes it was eventually detected, on the way back. But what you must accept is that it passed through all security checks at Ben Gurion Airport and Heathrow Airport undetected also.

fontanalis

Di0genes wrote: »

That assumption is utterly false. Mujahideen were primarily funded by wealthy Saudis. Bin Laden for example started as simply a wealthy donor who travelled in Afghanistan in the 80s, as did thousands of Muslims around the world.

The CIA's involvment was for the most part channelled through the Pakistan ISI, to give them deniality. Plus it cheaper to outsource.

Let me ask you a question if the CIA was funding and controlling Al Qaeda, why in the immediate aftermath how come they had so few resources, knowledge or assets in the area? How come they lacked even translators? Do you think someone becomes an intelligence expert in a weekend? Do you not suppose that the rest of agencies would wonder were all those experts in the region people they've trained with, had disappeared to?

Nowhere in Al Qaeda's history did the CIA have direct involvment in it's founding or funding. I think you should read any reputable work on the organisation (by reputable I mean someone who's lived and worked as a journalist in the region for years, and not some nutcase in Texas who's actual experience of the region consists of once eating a Tandorri).

Start with Jason Burke's book. Al Qaeda.

Exactly, Burkes book should be required reading for anyone who wants to spout of about the network of networks that is Al Qaeda.
At worse US money ended idirectly funding people with a similar ideology with Al Qaeda.