The Six Nations General Banter Thread. *Read Mod Warning. Post no.5*

Bugnug

Hey there the 6 nations is looming and I thought Id get a bit of a debate going over a couple of things.

1. Who should pull on the No10 jersey and why?
2. Should the captaincy reside with BOD this year?
3. Anybody fancy picking the 15 they think will start the championship and the 15 they'd like to see?

Amazotheamazing

Sexton is injured so you have to go with O'Gara unless Sexton does well when he gets back.

No reason to change captaincy.

Horan
Flannery
Hayes
POC
DOC
Ferris
Wallace
Heaslip
O'Leary
O'Gara
Earls
D'Arcy
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

Subs
Court
Cronin
Ryan
N. Best/SOB
Reddan
Sexton
Trimble

Probably harsh on Healy, but a fit horan is still a better player. Healy still has a lot of work to do on his scrummaging.

Ciaran-Irl

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Sexton is injured so you have to go with O'Gara unless Sexton does well when he gets back.

No reason to change captaincy.

Horan
Flannery
Hayes
POC
DOC
Ferris
Wallace
Heaslip
O'Leary
O'Gara
Earls
D'Arcy
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

Subs
Court
Cronin
Ryan
N. Best/SOB
Reddan
Sexton
Trimble

Probably harsh on Healy, but a fit horan is still a better player. Healy still has a lot of work to do on his scrummaging.

With all the obvious controversial choices here, the one that stands out the most is having Ryan instead of Cullen on the bench.

I am admittedly a leinster man, and I accept that all the other choices are debatable - Sexton / ROG, Reddan / TOL, Horan / Healy, Wallace / Jennings, Earls / Horgan, Hayes / Anyone else available under the age of 35.

I will even accept that the partnership of DOC & POC should not be broken up without good reason.

I do think it is rubbish to not give Leo the bench lock position.

Bugnug

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Sexton is injured so you have to go with O'Gara unless Sexton does well when he gets back.

No reason to change captaincy.

Horan
Flannery
Hayes
POC
DOC
Ferris
Wallace
Heaslip
O'Leary
O'Gara
Earls
D'Arcy
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

Subs
Court
Cronin
Ryan
N. Best/SOB
Reddan
Sexton
Trimble

Probably harsh on Healy, but a fit horan is still a better player. Healy still has a lot of work to do on his scrummaging.

If Sexton is fit and i think he will as he is back for the next two Heineken cup matches he should start.

I think Heaslip should be given the captaincy.

Marcus Horan is a better scrummager than Cian Healy, you obviuosly haven't been watching the same Cian "the beast" Healy that I have been watching. He took Hayes apart last October, he put it up to both the Australian and BOKS front row in the autums and he was toe to toe with BJ Botha one of the best scrummagers in the world against Ulster in the recent game. Marcus Horan is one of the weakest scrummagers in world rugby. When Marcus Horan watched Cian Healy last year against the Wallabies he knew his day had come and gone.

The team I think will start;

1. Healy
2. Fogarty (Flannry injured)
3. Hayes
4. POC
5. DOC
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. O Leary
10. O Gara
11. Earls
12. Wallace
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

My team;

1. Healy
2. Fogarty
3. Ross (Hayes wont be around in 2011)
4. Cullen
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan(if form really counts way ahead of O Leary this year)
10. Sexton
11. Earls (Fitzgerald injured)
12. Darcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

We did the slam last year and it would be great to retain but now its about building for 2011.

toomevara

All the usual gentle reminders apply re: discussion of the 10 berth. Got no problems with folk debating it, it's a key issue, but any provincial nonsense, incivility, personal abuse of players etc... and bannings are guaranteed.

Riskymove

Bugnug wrote: »

1. Who should pull on the No10 jersey and why?

ROG given Sexton's injury has a clear run.....his recent improved form is a boon

If Sexton gets back into form I am sure he'll get some time, perhaps start against some

2. Should the captaincy reside with BOD this year?

if he wants to continue, yes

reading the Grand slam book etc, it appears he was of a mind to give it one last year and ended upo winning a Grand slam

its really up to him, but regardless he'll still be the de facto on pitch captain presence

3. Anybody fancy picking the 15 they think will start the championship and the 15 they'd like to see?

The team I think will start;

1. Healy
2. Fogarty (Flannery and Best injured, fingers crossed one gets back)
3. Hayes
4. POC
5. DOC
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. O Leary
10. O Gara
11. Earls (in Fitzgeralds absence)
12. D'Arcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

My team;

1. Healy
2. Fogarty
3. Hayes (he will be around in 2011)
4. DOC
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. Stringer (get that fast ball moving to the backs)
10. ROG (Sexton injured/maybe back)
11. Earls (Fitzgerald injured)
12. Darcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

I have to say I'd push for Shaggy on the wing but I think we need to give Earls more time. The other option is Earls at centre and Shaggy on wing

I do think it is rubbish to not give Leo the bench lock position.

Cullen would start ahead of Ryan no doubt but Ryan gives Back Row options off the bench that cullen doesn't

irishbucsfan

The team that will start in my opinion:

1. Healy
2. Fogarty (Should be Cronin but I somehow think he'll be overlooked)
3. Hayes
4. DOC
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. TOL
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Wallace
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Court
18. Cullen
19. SOB
20. Reddan
21. O'Gara
22. D'Arcy

A few notes, firstly I think Wallace's place is more under threat now than it has been due to Sexton's emergence as an option at 10, Sexton's more threatening ability with the ball in hand means that Wallace's skillset at 12 is a little less neccesary than it was with ROG at 10, due to ROG's poor ability releasing the backline. IF Sexton starts (and that should really depend on his form this month) then I think D'Arcy could well be in with a great shout to start at 12, even if he is a bit of a 13 in a 12's shirt. If O'Gara starts then Wallace HAS to keep his place.

It would be pointless taking the captaincy of BOD. He's been a tremendous captain and just captained the team to the greatest season in Irish rugby's history. He has the respect of the players and to remove him now when he is showing no signs at all of wanting to give it up would be ridiculous. Not only that, but to give it to Jamie, who has never captained a serious rugby team is a laughable idea. Heaslip hasn't captained a serious rugby team in his career, and shouldn't yet be even considered for the national captaincy. He's surely behind POC in the order of merit for the captaincy and then behind Rory Best when he returns to fitness. Also you have to remember that captainship in rugby isn't necessarilly based on leadership in terms of motivation, but rather on the player's ablity to communicate with the referee (the most important factor) and keep the gameplan in the players heads etc. You can motivate from anywhere on the pitch, as Jamie does.

And Healy is a vastly superior player to Horan, case closed. Far better at everything despite being far younger, no way he'll lose his place.

19. Shirt might not go to SOB considering Jennings is back now, but I feel he offers far more depth in terms of positions covered (all three across the back row) so he should be our option at 19

smurphy29

Saying Horan should start ahead of Healy, and that ROG should start ahead of Sexton because Sexton is injured makes no sense at all, as Horan still hasn't come back from his very lengthy lay-off. In any case, Sexton will have no shortage of matches, starting on friday against Glasgow and including two Heineken Cup matches, to get back into the swing of things. If he can take up where he left off, I fully expect him to start against Italy in Croker. But Rog has found some form, and Jonno will need to be bang at it in order to keep his nose in front.

Equally, Horan has a good chance to prove himself, but Healy was impressive in the autumnn and is a significantly more dynamic player in the loose. Horan's scrummaging is no better than good-to-fair, and it would be a surprise if he forced his way past the incumbent.

Anyone thinking Donnacha Ryan will be picked ahead of Cullen needs to reconsider. Cullen is playing well these days, he's the Leinster captain, Ryan is not going to usurp him on the basis of 20 good minutes against Perpignan.

wixfjord

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Sexton is injured so you have to go with O'Gara unless Sexton does well when he gets back.

No reason to change captaincy.

Horan
Flannery
Hayes
POC
DOC
Ferris
Wallace
Heaslip
O'Leary
O'Gara
Earls
D'Arcy
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

Subs
Court
Cronin
Ryan
N. Best/SOB
Reddan
Sexton
Trimble

Probably harsh on Healy, but a fit horan is still a better player. Healy still has a lot of work to do on his scrummaging.

Double standards? How can you say Sexton has been injured so he shouldnt start when the above two have been injured aswell and have capable replacements!

Presuming Flannery is back, I would like to see Fogarty getting the bench hooker spot. Hes been playing great stuff for Leinster, and his throwing to the back for Heaslip has been very effective.

At this moment, considering that Flannery will be back hopefully and Sexton hasnt played since S.A. Id go with

Healy
Flannery
Hayes
POC
DOC
Ferris
Wallace
Heaslip
O'Leary
O'Gara
Earls
D'Arcy
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

with a bench of
Court
Foragty Snr.
Cullen
SOB
Reddan
Sexton
Horgan

I dunno how anyone could say Ryan and N Best should be ahead of Cullen and O Brien considering their performances on the AIs and in Leinster blue. Cullen is a Hcup winning captain, Ryan cant get into the Munster forst 15!:pac: The same with Reddan and Stringer, Reddan's been one of Leinsters best in the past few games, while Stringer was poor enough against Ulster and again isnt first 15!
Horgan/Trimble/Wallace is a tough call, the first two have been playing very well.

thomond2006

Six Nations Fixtures:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Six_Nations_Championship

Ireland v Italy
England v Wales
Scotland v France

Wales v Scotland
France v Ireland
Italy v England

Wales v France
Italy v Scotland
England v Ireland

Ireland v Wales
Scotland v England
France v Italy

Wales v Italy
Ireland v Scotland
France v Scotland

---

33 man squad (Kidney picks about 40 to start with anyway):

Healy
Hayes
Court
Horan
Ross

Flannery
Cronin
J Fogarty

POC
DOC
Cullen
Casey

Ferris
Best
SOB
Wallace
Heaslip
Henry

TOL
Stringer
Reddan

Sexton
ROG
Humphreys

D'Arcy
Wallace
BOD

Earls
Bowe
Trimble
Horgan

Kearney
Murphy (if fit)

---

This would be my "first" team:

Healy
Flannery
Hayes
DOC
POC
Ferris
Wallace
Heaslip
TOL
Sexton
Earls
D'Arcy
BOD (c)
Bowe
Kearney

Cronin
Court
Cullen
SOB
Stringer
ROG
Trimble

BOD is captain of course. Proven success.

Healy starts, his scrummaging has been under question but this has been the case with the Irish scrum for years, so why drop him for that? :pac: Court on the bench because he covers both sides.

DOC has been excellent and justifies his selection alongside POC. Cullen on the bench.

Backrow stays the same.

Sexton starts over ROG. Sexton is back this weekend, so he'll have 3 games to prove his fitness, so he should OK to start. Both ROG and Humphreys have been excellent but ROG is there for his experience just in case Sexton gets in trouble.

If TOL reproduces his Perpignan form, he must start. Stringer brings better impact than Reddan. If we need a try at the death, Stringer's ability to allow players to run onto the ball at pace is crucial.

D'Arcy ahead of Wallace. Proven partnership that scores tries.

Back 3 stays the same. Trimble has been in excellent form for Ulster and will make an impact from the bench in centre/wing.

---

However I'd like to see this team get a run against Italy, they are missing Parisse who is their one man army, therefore they should be a pushover imo. The subs should all get 15-20 minutes. Perfect chance for Declan Kidney to develop a "squad".

Horan
Cronin
Hayes
Cullen
POC
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Earls
Wallace
BOD (c)
Trimble
Murphy (if fit, otherwise Kearney)

J Fogarty
Ross
Casey
Henry
Stringer
Humphreys
Horgan

ROG is left out of the 22 because everyone knows what he can do in an Irish shirt. Sexton gets another cap under his belt and the in form Humphreys gets his first cap off the bench.

Mike Ross ahead of Buckley, because Buckley is a lost cause. Hayes stays in the starting XV, very important for lineout which Italy are strong at.

Cronin gets a run at hooker.

Trimble gets a run on the wing, a selection on form. If he's fit Murphy gets a run at 15. We need a out and out FB with gametime to come in if Kearney gets hurt imo.

Wallace gets another opportunity to partner BOD in the centre.

---

My Six Nations Prediction:

Ireland (Grand Slam, 5/5)
France (4/5)
Scotland (2/5)
Wales (2/5)
England (MJ gets the sack, 2/5)
Italy (0/5)

For England, Scotland, Wales and France, the Week 1 games are massive as they could go either way.

Italy are screwed without Parisse, wooden spoon guaranteed. It's a shame as Parisse always lights up the tournament with his displays, Six Nations won't be the same without him in my opinion.

If Martin Johnson's crazy selection policy continues, England will be a shambles and Johnson could get the boot. I can only see them beating Wales at home and Italy away. England should count themselves lucky that Wales aren't firing and Italy are without Parisse.

Andy Robinson will make the Scots a tough side to break down. However, the draw is not kind to them. The have Ireland, Wales and Italy away. I expect them to beat England at home and beat Italy away.

Who knows with Wales? The Warren Gatland aura has long since disappeared, however if they can beat England at Twickenham again on the first weekend, they could all change. I can only see them struggling though. They will beat Scotland and Italy , both at home.

France are as always an unknown package. Sometimes brilliant, sometimes terrible. This will cost them a chance at the championship. They lack a 10 that can control the game and release a devestating backline. They will lose to Ireland in Paris and beat everybody else, but don't be surprised if they implode and lose a few more games.

Ireland will win the Grand Slam again, best squad in the tournament and most of the other teams are in rebuilding mode or are just poor.
G'WAN IRELAND!

Risteard

1. Depends how Sexton gets on after injury. If he performs as well as he was doing before the injury then I'd start him, if not then RoG, who has come into some good form lately.

2. Don't see any reason to change. As I've said before, in this team 'Captain' is just a title, there's leaders throughout the team and I doubt BoD would make an important decision without consulting POC or vice versa.

3. Think we'll see:

1. Horan
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. DOC
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. TOL
10. RoG
11. Earls
12. D'arcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Court
17. Cronin
18. Cullen
19. SOB
20. Reddan
21. Sexton
22. Horgan

Want to see:

1. Healy/Court
2. Cronin
3. Hayes
4. DOC
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. TOL
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. D'arcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Court/Healy
17. Flannery
18. Cullen
19. SOB
20. Reddan
21. Sexton
22. Trimble

PhatPiggins

Marcus Horan is a better scrummager than Cian Healy, you obviuosly haven't been watching the same Cian "the beast" Healy that I have been watching. He took Hayes apart last October, he put it up to both the Australian and BOKS front row in the autums and he was toe to toe with BJ Botha one of the best scrummagers in the world against Ulster in the recent game. Marcus Horan is one of the weakest scrummagers in world rugby.

Complete urban myth. Healy got demolished in both the AI's, along with the rest of the Irish front row, and was handed his ass again when Botha and the Ulster seconds came to Dublin.

Looks great in a dominant front row, with power scrumagers like Wright/VDL/Jackman but not so hot in an average one.

Risteard

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Marcus Horan is a better scrummager than Cian Healy, you obviuosly haven't been watching the same Cian "the beast" Healy that I have been watching. He took Hayes apart last October, he put it up to both the Australian and BOKS front row in the autums and he was toe to toe with BJ Botha one of the best scrummagers in the world against Ulster in the recent game. Marcus Horan is one of the weakest scrummagers in world rugby.

Complete urban myth. Healy got demolished in both the AI's, along with the rest of the Irish front row, and was handed his ass again when Botha and the Ulster seconds came to Dublin.

Looks great in a dominant front row, with power scrumagers like Wright/VDL/Jackman but not so hot in an average one.

True, he's not the scrummaging machine that he's made out to be but I think he certainly has the potential, I mean how old is he 21/22? That's very young for a prop he'll have years to get his scrummaging to be brilliant.

nerophis

1. Healy
2. Fogarty or Cronin
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Wallace
13. O'Driscoll
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

Kidney obviously has a more open approach to selection than the previous O'Sullivan reign. Given that the first game off the bat is against Italy I would say that some of the Grand Slammers can expect to watch the game from the bench or maybe even from the stands with a wild card bench of Churchill Cup players. A young team with a low cap rate for Irish teams generally. I think that Kidney would target that game for the world cup squad. It's beyond the realm of possibility that Italy would beat us at home- at least in my mind!

1. Horan
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. DOC
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. O'Leary
10. O'Gara
11. Earls
12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

Back to a strongest selection (IMO) for France & England with a strong lean towards tried and trusted and see how we go for there. If we get wiped out in those games it becomes an excercise in building towards 2011. He's on the record as saying he needs to build a squad in any case even if we're beaten by Scotland or Wales his job is safe as houses. The outhalf position is almost too close to call but depends on how Sexton comes back from injury.

PhatPiggins

Risteard wrote: »

True, he's not the scrummaging machine that he's made out to be but I think he certainly has the potential, I mean how old is he 21/22? That's very young for a prop he'll have years to get his scrummaging to be brilliant.

No doubt about it he's wonderful around the park and I have no doubt that he will be an Ireland legend.

I just get sick of people running down Marcus Horan, who is a far better scrumager then he's given credit for. Hopefully he regains full fittness because it'll be intetresting to see how the Irish front fares with him in it.

Risteard

PhatPiggins wrote: »

No doubt about it he's wonderful around the park and I have no doubt that he will be an Ireland legend.

I just get sick of people running down Marcus Horan, who is a far better scrumager then he's given credit for. Hopefully he regains full fittness because it'll be intetresting to see how the Irish front fares with him in it.

Exactly, his work around the park is immense, the run against Australia as an example.

But Horan has far more years experience at this level than Healy and that does count for something.

Podge_irl

I highly, highly doubt that we'll see anything but the strongest team out against Italy. Id it was in the middle of the 6N maybe, but its the first game up and Kidney will want to get all his first choice players out and playing.

What that first choice will be is a different matter. I don't follow Amazo's logic regarding Sexton and Horan. One doesn't play because he's out injured for a month, the other does despite being out injured nearly all season. I have no major problem with a fit Horan starting ahead of Healy, but even if he comes back now he'll only have three games at most before the 6N and unfortunately he's not a bench option (unless Court starts). I still think Sexton will start assuming he comes back in anything approaching the form he was in, but ROG has come back into some form so if they alternate a bit I wouldn't be that bothered.

3. Hayes (he will be around in 2011)

If he is we're boned. He's already starting to struggle a bit more, which is no surprise given his age and how often he plays. I can't see how he'll make 2011 without with a massive weakness in the pack. There are no obvious replacements, and it may not happen this 6N, but he needs to be replaced sooner rather than later unfortunately. It certainly doesn't help that he's playing 80 minutes every game as well, even a viable bench option would help.

danthefan

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Complete urban myth. Healy got demolished in both the AI's, along with the rest of the Irish front row, and was handed his ass again when Botha and the Ulster seconds came to Dublin.

Looks great in a dominant front row, with power scrumagers like Wright/VDL/Jackman but not so hot in an average one.

As soon as Ross came on for Wright the Leinster scrum stabilised, Wright was the problem there not Healy. Horan has been demolished once or twice this season by the way, Glasgow away springs to mind.

Risteard

danthefan wrote: »

As soon as Ross came on for Wright the Leinster scrum stabilised, Wright was the problem there not Healy. Horan has been demolished once or twice this season by the way, Glasgow away springs to mind.

Well applying the same logic, that must have been Buckley's fault, surely?

Podge_irl

Risteard wrote: »

Well applying the same logic, that must have been Buckley's fault, surely?

Was Buckley replaced and did the scrum then stabilise? It's an honest question, I didn't see the game. In that case the same logic would apply. Though I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to scrum properly with Buckley being the other prop so I'd be inclined to let Horan away with that one.

Risteard

Podge_irl wrote: »

Was Buckley replaced and did the scrum then stabilise? It's an honest question, I didn't see the game. In that case the same logic would apply. Though I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to scrum properly with Buckley being the other prop so I'd be inclined to let Horan away with that one.

I can't remember tbh, though Brugnaut was the replacement so even if Buckley was replaced he was replaced by a guy who's normally a loosehead which wouldn't have improved things a lot.

I'm not saying Horan's a destructive scrummager but I think he's well capable of holding his own against most props. He has had to 'suffer', for lack of a better word, at having Hayes who is not a great scrummager on the other side nearly every time he plays.

accensi0n

Can't see Ireland doing the GS again with an away game to France.

Riskymove

accensi0n wrote: »

Can't see Ireland doing the GS again with an away game to France.

That's the spirit

PhatPiggins

danthefan wrote: »

As soon as Ross came on for Wright the Leinster scrum stabilised, Wright was the problem there not Healy. Horan has been demolished once or twice this season by the way, Glasgow away springs to mind.

Yes Healy having his arse forced out at an almost 90 degree angle because of the pressure Botha was putting him under was Wrights fault!

Botha went off injured 10 minutes and 2 scrums after Ross came on some I'm not sure what your basing your "it was Wrights fault" on.

accensi0n

Riskymove wrote: »

That's the spirit

That's the spirit.

Hype710

15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. O' Driscoll (C)
12. D'arcy
11. Trimble
10. Sexton
9. O' Leary
8. Heaslip
7. Wallace
6. Ferris
5. O' Connell
4. O' Callaghan
3. Hayes
2. J. Fogarty
1. Healy

16. Cronin
17. Court
18. Ryan
19. O' Brien
20. Reddan
21. O' Gara
22. Earls

Healy over Horan because I don't think Horan will have had enough game time under his belt and doesnt have the early season form of say, Sexton. Trimble over Earls is a tight one. But basically Trimble's been in great form on the wing for Ulster, looks physically very strong and has an added aggression to his game. Earls still looks like he doesnt know his best position. Ryan over Cullen again is marginal and I wont be dissappointed if Cullen gets it. There is rarely a need to take off either O' Callaghan or O' Connell. Ryan has made a great impact off the bench for Munster this year and would be covering Ferris at 6, who is fairly injury prone, as much as anything, leaving O' Brien covering 7 and 8.

Amazotheamazing

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

With all the obvious controversial choices here, the one that stands out the most is having Ryan instead of Cullen on the bench.

I am admittedly a leinster man, and I accept that all the other choices are debatable - Sexton / ROG, Reddan / TOL, Horan / Healy, Wallace / Jennings, Earls / Horgan, Hayes / Anyone else available under the age of 35.

I will even accept that the partnership of DOC & POC should not be broken up without good reason.

I do think it is rubbish to not give Leo the bench lock position.

Ryan is far more versatile than Cullen. Can cover 6 and 8 if needs be. Cullen and MOD are decent players but neither is international class, imo.

Amazotheamazing

smurphy29 wrote: »

Saying Horan should start ahead of Healy, and that ROG should start ahead of Sexton because Sexton is injured makes no sense at all, as Horan still hasn't come back from his very lengthy lay-off. In any case, Sexton will have no shortage of matches, starting on friday against Glasgow and including two Heineken Cup matches, to get back into the swing of things. If he can take up where he left off, I fully expect him to start against Italy in Croker. But Rog has found some form, and Jonno will need to be bang at it in order to keep his nose in front.

Equally, Horan has a good chance to prove himself, but Healy was impressive in the autumnn and is a significantly more dynamic player in the loose. Horan's scrummaging is no better than good-to-fair, and it would be a surprise if he forced his way past the incumbent.

Anyone thinking Donnacha Ryan will be picked ahead of Cullen needs to reconsider. Cullen is playing well these days, he's the Leinster captain, Ryan is not going to usurp him on the basis of 20 good minutes against Perpignan.

Horan is back fit though, was due to play for Shannon last weekend, Flannery should be fit in time for the Treviso game.

Healy is massively impressive in the loose, but he's weak in the scrums, not so weak you'd think he's the new Buckley, but it's a big weakness in his game.

Bugnug

PhatPiggins wrote: »

No doubt about it he's wonderful around the park and I have no doubt that he will be an Ireland legend.

I just get sick of people running down Marcus Horan, who is a far better scrumager then he's given credit for. Hopefully he regains full fittness because it'll be intetresting to see how the Irish front fares with him in it.

Come on Horan is one of the weakest scrummagers in the game and Hayes is not far behind. Every single year the Italians lick thier lips at the prospect of Horan and they mince him every time. Not even in the same class as Healy who is just 22 years old, he is a legend in the making and in this particular case experience is not an issue. Cian Healy went head to head with two of the best scrummaging sides in the world in tha AI's and fared pretty well for his first full test matches.

Ciaran-Irl

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Ryan is far more versatile than Cullen. Can cover 6 and 8 if needs be. Cullen and MOD are decent players but neither is international class, imo.

Cullen is the Captain of the current European champions and bested POC & DOC in both their last meetings. He is not just international standard, but would walk into a starting place in any side bar Ireland & South Africa. He was Leicester's Captain before he left them.

Donncha Ryan is a bench player for Munster. 4th choice lock and 6th choice back row. Has done nothing to suggest he is International standard.

This kind of blinkard opinion wrecks these threads.

Bugnug

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The team that will start in my opinion:

1. Healy
2. Fogarty (Should be Cronin but I somehow think he'll be overlooked)
3. Hayes
4. DOC
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. TOL
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Wallace
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Court
18. Cullen
19. SOB
20. Reddan
21. O'Gara
22. D'Arcy

A few notes, firstly I think Wallace's place is more under threat now than it has been due to Sexton's emergence as an option at 10, Sexton's more threatening ability with the ball in hand means that Wallace's skillset at 12 is a little less neccesary than it was with ROG at 10, due to ROG's poor ability releasing the backline. IF Sexton starts (and that should really depend on his form this month) then I think D'Arcy could well be in with a great shout to start at 12, even if he is a bit of a 13 in a 12's shirt. If O'Gara starts then Wallace HAS to keep his place.

It would be pointless taking the captaincy of BOD. He's been a tremendous captain and just captained the team to the greatest season in Irish rugby's history. He has the respect of the players and to remove him now when he is showing no signs at all of wanting to give it up would be ridiculous. Not only that, but to give it to Jamie, who has never captained a serious rugby team is a laughable idea. Heaslip hasn't captained a serious rugby team in his career, and shouldn't yet be even considered for the national captaincy. He's surely behind POC in the order of merit for the captaincy and then behind Rory Best when he returns to fitness. Also you have to remember that captainship in rugby isn't necessarilly based on leadership in terms of motivation, but rather on the player's ablity to communicate with the referee (the most important factor) and keep the gameplan in the players heads etc. You can motivate from anywhere on the pitch, as Jamie does.

And Healy is a vastly superior player to Horan, case closed. Far better at everything despite being far younger, no way he'll lose his place.

19. Shirt might not go to SOB considering Jennings is back now, but I feel he offers far more depth in terms of positions covered (all three across the back row) so he should be our option at 19

If I am not mistaking a few people said the same thing about a certain BOD when he took over the Irish captaincy at the age of 23. Paul O Connel showed during the lions tour that he is not an international captain, it takes from his game. Heaslip has a brilliant rugby brain in the same mould as Anthony Foley.