The Six Nations General Banter Thread. *Read Mod Warning. Post no.5*

Bugnug

sickpuppy wrote: »

Sergio Parisse the worlds best no 8 is laid up not laid back.

He was but not anymore.

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

Hasn't got a cool head? I don't think I've ever seen him lose his cool on a rugby pitch. I'd be shocked if he's not well up there when it comes time to replace Cullen and I'd be surprised if he doesn't captain Ireland at some point (whether as permanent captain or as stand-in). He has an excellent rugby brain.

He will be a good captain one day, I agree with you 100% there. But he certanly can be very hot headed. Not in a violent way, mind, but I wouldn't want to be on his bad side.

Don't see how people can think O'Driscoll's a bad captain. All the players have the utmost respect for him as a leader. At the same time, O'Connell is an excellent captain, and so is Rory Best. Best has a good while left in the game so I think we're sorted for our captaincy for the next while.

2040

Bugnug wrote: »

He was but not anymore.

You remind me of another poster on here. Are you him?

thehighground

Bugnug wrote: »

Yea your probably right. That whole thing of captaining Ireland to their first grand slam in 61 years looked pretty "onerous" on him, while almost singlehandly beating England.

I think you will find that a few others had very good 6ns (Irish tight five for instance - 75% of Ireland's scores came off the lineout). It could be said that ROG won the game in Thomond against USAP on his own - but rugby is a team sport and you won't hear anyone who knows anything about the game buying into that sort of comment.

DOC and ROG captained the lions in nothing games, so dont give me that. Did you call the best number 8 in world rugby "laid back" emmm.

emmm ... so Heaslip wasn't deemed to be a stand out leader to captain a 'nothing game' (btw, if DOC & ROG were captaining 'nothing games' - so was BOD & Shaw).

And I did say Heaslip is a very good player (as Mal was/is) - but they do seem to be very laid back.

smurphy29

To put the frankly bizarre Donnacha Ryan drum-banging in perspective: he has played precisely 36 minutes of Heineken Cup rugby this season. In his career he has come on as replacement 11 times in the competition, and has never started a match. That Leo Cullen being a frequent, but not automatic starter at Leicester is being propped up as an argument supporting Ryan's cause is a bit baffling to be honest.

irishbucsfan

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Looks great in a dominant front row, with power scrumagers like Wright/VDL/Jackman but not so hot in an average one.

Great. He'll be right at home playing alongside a fit Flannery and Hayes. And anyone who has watched the AIs back will admit Healy did very well given the circumstances and the lack of fitness of those around him. If Flannery has had no match practice by the first game we should look to Fogarty or Cronin.

Healy is at least on par with Horan as a scrummager, and his contribution around the pitch is far greater, so I don't think the 1. jersey is even a tight contest.

PhatPiggins

2040 wrote: »

You remind me of another poster on here. Are you him?

Rugby Fanatic or the guy with penis envy

which one is banned this week?

thomond2006

Ryan will only get near the senior 30 is if he makes the Munster HEC side, which is unlikely given that he is a 6 and Quinlan will hardly be moved. Although, he made an excellent impact in Perpignan, summed up by the tackle he made on Durand after a scrum that lead to JdV's key try.

No way should he be ahead of Cullen, that is crazy.

If Ronan goes to 7 and Wallace to 8 (due to DL's injury), it could be two huge games for Niall Ronan to put his hand up. In my opinion, he needs to bulk up a bit and improve his strength before he is up to international level.

Ryan will get gametime with the A side, they are playing England Saxons during the Championship.

Kidney will name a large extended squad first remember, so Ryan will likely be included in that.

PhatPiggins

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ryan will get gametime with the A side, they are playing England Saxons during the Championship.

quote]

Only if Danny Cipriani decides that he's not in danger of breaking a nail this season.

2040

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Rugby Fanatic or the guy with penis envy

which one is banned this week?

I was thinking penis envy, except this particular persona has an obsession with Heaslip rather than Sexton.

Ciaran-Irl

smurphy29 wrote: »

To put the frankly bizarre Donnacha Ryan drum-banging in perspective: he has played precisely 36 minutes of Heineken Cup rugby this season. In his career he has come on as replacement 11 times in the competition, and has never started a match. That Leo Cullen being a frequent, but not automatic starter at Leicester is being propped up as an argument supporting Ryan's cause is a bit baffling to be honest.

I, for one, realised that it was such a lunatic idea to put Ryan over Cullen that it is no longer worth engaging with. I hate how ****ing provincial these debates get. How anyone thinks POC is a bad captain is beyond me. Likewise, this Ryan over Cullen thing.

Bias aside, it is a straight shoot out between number 1s and 10 s in the two HEC games. Those will indicate who will start. Rightly so. All things being equal (they never are), I'd go with the younger player.

Nothing made me happier in the autumn than proof that Kidney isn't biased to Munster. Well... OK, maybe beating the Saffers.

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

Leo Cullen does play for Ireland (didn't he start against Figi?). Doesnt the fact that BOD resigned as club captain to concentrate on his game say something to you? (like he finds it onerous/it doesn't come easy to him).

Heaslip could well be the future ... but Simon Show, POC, DOC & ROG all got to captain a Lions team before him, not to mention that last year there seems to be about 4 named vice captains in Leinster and he isn't one of them (Whits, Jennings were last year).

Personally think that Heaslip is a very good player, but seems to me to be far too laid back. Probably comes from sharing a dressing room with Mal.

I think one reason for Cullen over BOD as Leinster captain was that O'Driscoll can't/doesn't play as many games in a season as Cullen is likely to for Leinster.

And personally I'd rather have the Liarish captain or the Leinster captain ahead of Donncha Ryan. Or Dan Tuohy. Or Caldwell. Or one of the Connacht boys. Or Mal. Or me ffs. He's got plenty of talent, but hasn't done much lately. He'll play for Ireland in the future (at least I think so) but shouldn't this season.

twinytwo

thehighground wrote: »

Leo Cullen does play for Ireland (didn't he start against Figi?). Doesnt the fact that BOD resigned as club captain to concentrate on his game say something to you? (like he finds it onerous/it doesn't come easy to him).

Heaslip could well be the future ... but Simon Show, POC, DOC & ROG all got to captain a Lions team before him, not to mention that last year there seems to be about 4 named vice captains in Leinster and he isn't one of them (Whits, Jennings were last year).

Personally think that Heaslip is a very good player, but seems to me to be far too laid back. Probably comes from sharing a dressing room with Mal.

i would have thought that being captain of both teams as well as being the go to man for both club and country for the best part of a decade had finally begun to take its toll?... he gave up the leinster captaincy and there is quality from 9 to 15 for leinster and ireland and alot of natural leaders in the team meaning he can concentrate on himself thus he was able to do what he did in 09.... personally id have him as captain till the day he hangs his boots up as there is no better man for the job. to captain ur country is an honour you earn and drico has long earned the right to stay as captain

danthefan

thehighground wrote: »

Leo Cullen does play for Ireland (didn't he start against Figi?). Doesnt the fact that BOD resigned as club captain to concentrate on his game say something to you? (like he finds it onerous/it doesn't come easy to him).

Heaslip could well be the future ... but Simon Show, POC, DOC & ROG all got to captain a Lions team before him, not to mention that last year there seems to be about 4 named vice captains in Leinster and he isn't one of them (Whits, Jennings were last year).

Personally think that Heaslip is a very good player, but seems to me to be far too laid back. Probably comes from sharing a dressing room with Mal.

Just to be 100% clear, are you saying BOD should be removed as captain?

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He will be a good captain one day, I agree with you 100% there. But he certanly can be very hot headed. Not in a violent way, mind, but I wouldn't want to be on his bad side.

Based on what? I genuinely have no idea what you're basing this on. He always struck me as absurdly laid back in all situations.

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ryan will only get near the senior 30 is if he makes the Munster HEC side, which is unlikely given that he is a 6 and Quinlan will hardly be moved.

He's not though. He's a lock, he's just constantly being shoe-horned into 6 at Munster for some reason. He's be an obvious bench lock at this point if he was only played there with any regularity at Munster imo.

thomond2006

Podge_irl wrote: »

He's not though. He's a lock, he's just constantly being shoe-horned into 6 at Munster for some reason. He's be an obvious bench lock at this point if he was only played there with any regularity at Munster imo.

I agree, I was only referring to his chances of breaking into the Munster side after Denis Leamy's injury created a free backrow slot.

Given he only "covers" blindside, the chances of him making the XV are unlikely.

On another note, leave off on the "Heaslip can't be captain" posts. Sure English fans wanted Danny Cipriani to be England captain after England vs Ireland 2008. :pac:

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

Based on what? I genuinely have no idea what you're basing this on. He always struck me as absurdly laid back in all situations.

Based on watching him play for years and years at different levels. He can lose the head at times, but not in a violent way. More like the way BOD does from time to time (maybe I'm the only one, but it seems like when BOD loses the head I'm far less likely to be disappointed in him). He throws his fair share of sly digs though. Also, if you watch him, he seems to get very animated when he's motivating his team mates, wouldn't think of describing him as laid back.

He's a legend at our rugby club though, and everyone seems to expect him to aspire to a captaincy role. Myself I can understand people being skeptical about that considering his lack of experience as a captain, and considering the players that are probably ahead of him in the pecking order.

Trojan

I wouldn't have Heaslip at captain - he's too much of a Lad at the moment (though might be maturing). Don't think he'd get the respect quite yet, especially given the other options.

POC is a great captain and leader but I'd have him on the bench as I think DOC and Cullen are our top 2 locks.

One serious weakness in POC's game is his very poor impact when taking on ball off the ruck. Look at his carries in almost any recent game. He generally takes it on way too slow and makes very little ground, often getting pushed back behind the gain line. On the upside, he rarely, if ever, loses it in contact. But this is a glaring weakness in his game in the last year or 2.

Looking forward to WC2011 at 10, if Sexton is fit for the 6N, pick Sexton - if not, pick ROG. In the same vein, Healy at 1.

I think we're back to TOL then Stringer then Reddan at 9.

chupacabra

The one day I'm not around and you lot go and have a big sixnations discussion :pac:

anyway my team for Italy would be:

1. Court
2. Cronin
3. Hayes
4. Cullen
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. SOB
8. Wallace

9. TOL
10. Rodge
11. Trimble
12. BOD
13. Earls
14. Horgan
15. Kearney

16. Fogarty
17. Healy
18. DOC
19. Heaslip
20. Boss
21. Sexton
22. D'Arcy

In before "BOD is NOT a 12".... :rolleyes:

Cuchulain

Wow, no Bowe or Stringer in the 22 and Heaslip not starting?

Anyway my team

1. Healy
2. Flannery/Fogarty
3. Hayes
4. Cullen
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. TOL
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Darcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Fogarty/Cronin
17. Court
18. DOC
19. D.Wallace
20. Stringer
21. ROG
22. Trimble

Bugnug

chupacabra wrote: »

The one day I'm not around and you lot go and have a big sixnations discussion :pac:

anyway my team for Italy would be:

1. Court
2. Cronin
3. Hayes
4. Cullen
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. SOB
8. Wallace

9. TOL
10. Rodge
11. Trimble
12. BOD
13. Earls
14. Horgan
15. Kearney

16. Fogarty
17. Healy
18. DOC
19. Heaslip
20. Boss
21. Sexton
22. D'Arcy

In before "BOD is NOT a 12".... :rolleyes:

Are you picking this as a development side for 2011 or would you start the same side against France/Wales?

Size=everything

Trojan wrote: »

I wouldn't have Heaslip at captain - he's too much of a Lad at the moment (though might be maturing). Don't think he'd get the respect quite yet, especially given the other options.

POC is a great captain and leader but I'd have him on the bench as I think DOC and Cullen are our top 2 locks.

One serious weakness in POC's game is his very poor impact when taking on ball off the ruck. Look at his carries in almost any recent game. He generally takes it on way too slow and makes very little ground, often getting pushed back behind the gain line. On the upside, he rarely, if ever, loses it in contact. But this is a glaring weakness in his game in the last year or 2.

Looking forward to WC2011 at 10, if Sexton is fit for the 6N, pick Sexton - if not, pick ROG. In the same vein, Healy at 1.

I think we're back to TOL then Stringer then Reddan at 9.

I'd have to agree. One of my main gripes with O'Connell on the Lions tour was when the ball came to O'Connell he never offloaded he ALWAYS took the ball into contact, making little or no ground and slowing everything down. It was extremely frustrating.

Size=everything

chupacabra wrote: »

The one day I'm not around and you lot go and have a big sixnations discussion :pac:

anyway my team for Italy would be:

1. Court
2. Cronin
3. Hayes
4. Cullen
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. SOB
8. Wallace

9. TOL
10. Rodge
11. Trimble
12. BOD
13. Earls
14. Horgan
15. Kearney

16. Fogarty
17. Healy
18. DOC
19. Heaslip
20. Boss
21. Sexton
22. D'Arcy

In before "BOD is NOT a 12".... :rolleyes:

I really don't know where to start. Putting the best 13 in the world out of position to accomadate a player whose inclusion at centre excludes D'arcy who, if you haven't noticed, is in incredible form. Leaving out the best 8 in the world currently wheres the logic in that? One of the world's best wingers doesn't even make the 22???
I doubt he picked that team with development in mind as Hayes, O'Gara, Wallace and Horgan are in it

Good god.

Riskymove

Risteard wrote: »

And yes those are truly the words of a wise man.;)

yep all should listen to Rala more often

Size=everything

My team

1.Healy
2.Fogarty
3.Hayes
4.Cullen
5.O'Connell
6.Ferris
7.O'Brien
8.Heaslip
9.Reddan
10.Sexton
11.Trimble
12.D'arcy
13.O'Driscoll
14.Bowe
15.Kearney

16.Cronin
17.Court
18.O'Callaghan
19.Wallace
20.O'Leary
21.O'Gara
22.Earls


Healy starts because frankly he is the best loosehead in Ireland. Court is rewarded for form and given a spot on the bench to see what he can do. We know what Horan can offer. Fogarty starts as he has experience starting with the lineout players and has been solid all season. Cronin is much more of an unknown quantity. Cullen gets the nod over O'Callaghan as I believe he offers more. He is a proven leader and imo does a lot more ground work than O'Callaghan and is a far better ball carrier but it will be interesting to see if he gets his chance. O'Brien starts at 7 over Wallace. Reasons being hes young so he should have experience. Wallace is a better player but I have my suspicions if hes a better 7. O'Brien does more work on the ground which is what I want my 7 to do. Add to that he can cover the whole backrow as well. I have Reddan over O'Leary because I haven't been happy with O'Leary so far this season and Reddan is used to playing with Sexton leading me to my next point...Sexton over O'Gara as Sexton is simply better than O'Gara currently though it will be interesting to see if he can bounce back from his injury smoothy. In the backline I have Trimble at 11 as he has been in tremendous form and is young and should should be awarded. D'arcy starts at 12 as he is in excellent form. Rest of backline is as one would expect.

So a bit harsh on the likes of Paddy Wallace and Horgan but this is what I feel is the best team with the view of both winning and developing.

Ciaran-Irl

I reckon that I would start this team against Italy. Hayes, Wallace & maybe ROG to come in against France.

1. Healy
2. Flannery/Fogarty
3. Ross
4. DOC
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip
9. TOL
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Darcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Fogarty/Cronin
17. Court
18. Cullen
19. Wallace
20. Reddan
21. ROG
22. Horgan

On a side note, people have been raving about Trimble based on what exactly? His one superb performance against Munster in the worst game of Rugby that I have seen in a long time? He hasn't even been able to get his game for most of this season, with Nagusa & Danielli the regular wings. He was dropped from the Ulster match day twenty two on a few occasions.

He needs to be selected and then perform, consistently for Ulster before he can make the Ireland the cut.

toomevara

PhatPiggins, 2040 : No more speculation or comments on thread regarding the identity of certain posters. It's not on.

Riskymove

Size=everything wrote: »

My team


Healy starts because frankly he is the best loosehead in Ireland. Court is rewarded for form and given a spot on the bench to see what he can do. We know what Horan can offer. Fogarty starts as he has experience starting with the lineout players and has been solid all season. Cronin is much more of an unknown quantity. Cullen gets the nod over O'Callaghan as I believe he offers more. He is a proven leader and imo does a lot more ground work than O'Callaghan and is a far better ball carrier but it will be interesting to see if he gets his chance. O'Brien starts at 7 over Wallace. Reasons being hes young so he should have experience. Wallace is a better player but I have my suspicions if hes a better 7. O'Brien does more work on the ground which is what I want my 7 to do. Add to that he can cover the whole backrow as well. I have Reddan over O'Leary because I haven't been happy with O'Leary so far this season and Reddan is used to playing with Sexton leading me to my next point...Sexton over O'Gara as Sexton is simply better than O'Gara currently though it will be interesting to see if he can bounce back from his injury smoothy. In the backline I have Trimble at 11 as he has been in tremendous form and is young and should should be awarded. D'arcy starts at 12 as he is in excellent form. Rest of backline is as one would expect.

So a bit harsh on the likes of Paddy Wallace and Horgan but this is what I feel is the best team with the view of both winning and developing.

after about 2 sentences I just knew it would be drop a smany Munster players a spossible!!....but playing Trimble instead of Earls?

Bugnug

Size=everything wrote: »

My team

1.Healy
2.Fogarty
3.Hayes
4.Cullen
5.O'Connell
6.Ferris
7.O'Brien
8.Heaslip
9.Reddan
10.Sexton
11.Trimble
12.D'arcy
13.O'Driscoll
14.Bowe
15.Kearney

16.Cronin
17.Court
18.O'Callaghan
19.Wallace
20.O'Leary
21.O'Gara
22.Earls


Healy starts because frankly he is the best loosehead in Ireland. Court is rewarded for form and given a spot on the bench to see what he can do. We know what Horan can offer. Fogarty starts as he has experience starting with the lineout players and has been solid all season. Cronin is much more of an unknown quantity. Cullen gets the nod over O'Callaghan as I believe he offers more. He is a proven leader and imo does a lot more ground work than O'Callaghan and is a far better ball carrier but it will be interesting to see if he gets his chance. O'Brien starts at 7 over Wallace. Reasons being hes young so he should have experience. Wallace is a better player but I have my suspicions if hes a better 7. O'Brien does more work on the ground which is what I want my 7 to do. Add to that he can cover the whole backrow as well. I have Reddan over O'Leary because I haven't been happy with O'Leary so far this season and Reddan is used to playing with Sexton leading me to my next point...Sexton over O'Gara as Sexton is simply better than O'Gara currently though it will be interesting to see if he can bounce back from his injury smoothy. In the backline I have Trimble at 11 as he has been in tremendous form and is young and should should be awarded. D'arcy starts at 12 as he is in excellent form. Rest of backline is as one would expect.

So a bit harsh on the likes of Paddy Wallace and Horgan but this is what I feel is the best team with the view of both winning and developing.

Completely agree with your selection. Pretty much the same as mine except for the inclusion of Trimble, but I think you might be right on that one. I had Earls in mine but he hasn't really proven himself at international level and I have never wittnessed a back that spills or knocks on so much ball. I think he needs to mature a little he always seems to be too many steps ahead of himself. Good call.

Bugnug

Riskymove wrote: »

after about 2 sentences I just knew it would be drop a smany Munster players a spossible!!....but playing Trimble instead of Earls?

This thread is nothing to do with Munster/Ulster/Connacht/Leinster bias it is about selecting what you think is the best team to represent Ireland and also with a view to developing the best squad that can go on and possibly win the world cup. We are currently ranked 4 in the world, thats an amazing achievement and a credit to the IRFU and the provinces. Remember its not about the provinces, its all about the green jersey at the end of the day.