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The Six Nations General Banter Thread. *Read Mod Warning. Post no.5*

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12357…40

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    #122
    PhatPiggins
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    Bugnug wrote: »
    Yes it did when he was being played in his natural position on the wing. O'Sullivan kept trying to play him at centre when Darcy was injured, a bit like what munster are doing with Earls, and thats working out well!

    Seeing as he played centre(his original position) for Ulster that was hardly unreasonable.

    He was terrible on the wing for Ireland against any of the top 5 teams.


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    #123
    Bugnug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 602 ✭✭✭Bugnug


    PhatPiggins wrote: »
    Seeing as he played centre(his original position) for Ulster that was hardly unreasonable.

    He was terrible on the wing for Ireland against any of the top 5 teams.

    8 tries in 22 internationals. Kind of speaks for itself, posted a little further back.


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    #124
    Hype710
    Registered Users Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭Hype710


    Stev_o wrote: »
    Trimbles defence is not up to international level, nor is his kicking or passing.


    Hold on, Earls' defence is very suspect, misses too many tackles imo. His defensive kicking isnt great and I see no difference in their passing. Trimble's tackling has been very aggressive this year from what I've seen, an area he's obviously worked on. Also, Earls tends to get shunted into touch very often when he gets the ball, and doesnt come into midfield as much á la Bowe. I personally would go for Trimble, but Earls to get gametime too.


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    #125
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Bugnug wrote: »
    8 tries in 22 internationals. Kind of speaks for itself, posted a little further back.

    Including against France, New Zealand and South Africa. Not bad.


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    #126
    Ciaran-Irl
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Ciaran-Irl


    Paul Smeenus wrote: »
    I understand your reasoning.

    But you are honestly asking me to give more weight to Earl's form a full six months ago? Really? And Horgan's form when? Last spring? A good performance against a wretchedly bad Tonga is not international standard, true, but then it's more than Horgan managed in the same game.

    Trimble is playing the best rugby out of the three, I think. He's proven that, when on form, he can cut it against teams such as South Africa. When on form. Which he is now.

    I see you would bring ROG in for the tougher teams in the Six Nations. I would argue he has been in horrible form for a significant period, with a recent upturn in performances. Why is his selection not problematic? He was poor at the start of this season. Does he not have to display good form for "far, far longer" than a handful of games? Interesting. (Just to be clear, I'm trying to understand your criteria. And why they seem to be so flexible.)

    I'm not basing anything on Earls or Horgan's form 6 months ago. I'm saying they have had sustained good form since last season. They have played well this year, and they have been playing well since at least late last year. Horgan kept Rob Kearney out of the Leinster team until Luke Fitzgerald got injured. Earls has pushed JdV out of the Munster team and played fantastic rugby in the autumn for Ireland.

    Your comment about ROG is based on this quote from me I assume?, "I reckon that I would start this team against Italy. Hayes, Wallace & maybe ROG to come in against France."?

    "Maybe ROG"?

    Yeah, I didn't elaborate beyond that, but my thinking is that we don't currently know how Sexton will play now that he is back from injury. If he gets back his pre injury form, then the Ireland jersey is his. If he is slow to get back to his best, ROG looks like he is playing well again and "MAYBE" would pip Sexton for the away France game. It is unknown, but Kidney has made it very clear that he intends to rotate between the two. So long as both are in good form, I respect that judgement.

    Ross needs game time, but as he has been a penalty magnet so far this year for us in Leinster, I don't think he should start against France. I would play Ross against Italy as he is a superior scrummager to Hayes.

    Wallace is playing outstanding rugby this year, but we do need to see alternatives for the 7 position given Wallace's age leading up to the World cup. I would start Jennings against Italy and then bring Wallace back in afterwards.


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    #127
    Risteard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭Risteard


    Bugnug wrote: »
    8 tries in 22 internationals. Kind of speaks for itself, posted a little further back.

    It's a little easy to quote statistics but they don't tell the full story. He didn't have the best positioning though that has improved tbf to him.

    I like Trimble and think he's a good player but I don't think he's better than Earls who is a more natural footballer IMO.


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    #128
    Bugnug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 602 ✭✭✭Bugnug


    Stev_o wrote: »
    Trimbles defence is not up to international level, nor is his kicking or passing. Earls is miles ahead of him on national selection. The only other winger that is in direct competetion to Earls for the 6N is Horgan and it's a very close race (one which i would like see to youth and a big prospect prevail over a great a servant).

    What this big prospect business and hype about Earls. Can everbody take a step back here and look at the hard facts. Earls is a fine provincial rugby player but he has failed by a country mile to live up to international standards (and lets not mention the lions tour), his positional play is weak at best, his defence is suspect and he has two left feet. Earls will not be part of the Ireland set up come the world cup.


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    #129
    Bugnug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 602 ✭✭✭Bugnug


    Risteard wrote: »
    It's a little easy to quote statistics but they don't tell the full story. He didn't have the best positioning though that has improved tbf to him.

    I like Trimble and think he's a good player but I don't think he's better than Earls who is a more natural footballer IMO.

    I dont think so but it wont really matter when Fitzgerald is fit, well at least not for first team selection.


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    #130
    PhatPiggins
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    Paul Smeenus wrote: »
    Including against France, New Zealand and South Africa. Not bad.

    In 2006, that was four years ago. Its actually 8 in 25 games and 6 of those tries were in friendlies.

    Statistics tell one side of the story but those who actually watched those games will remember him being horribly exposed on numerous occassions as a clumsy centre playing on the wing.


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    #131
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Bugnug wrote: »
    8 tries in 22 internationals. Kind of speaks for itself, posted a little further back.


    same record as BOD or shaggy??

    I think he is a good player but in fairness

    6 tries in 8 "friendlies" (6 starts)

    1 try in 13 6N appearances (9 starts)

    1 try in 2 world cup games

    BOD - 21 of 38 tries in 6N

    Shaggy - 13 of 21 tries in 6N....and he has been played in centre and wing too


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    #132
    Risteard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭Risteard


    Bugnug wrote: »
    What this big prospect business and hype about Earls. Can everbody take a step back here and look at the hard facts. Earls is a fine provincial rugby player but he has failed by a country mile to live up to international standards (and lets not mention the lions tour), his positional play is weak at best, his defence is suspect and he has two left feet. Earls will not be part of the Ireland set up come the world cup.

    He had one poor game on the Lions tour which was his first game which is understandable.

    He's played five times for Ireland, twice against weakened teams which you can't really judge him on and twice off the bench at late stages in the game. He's had one start against South Africa where he didn't do too badly. So I don't know why you're saying he's failed to live up to international standards when in reality he's really only had one chance to do so.

    Trimble's positioning was pretty bad when he started playing on the wing for Ireland and bear in mind Earls was being shunted from position to position so that wouldn't have helped him.

    I find it laughable to suggest one of our most talented young players won't be part of the world cup squad after two more years of experience.


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    #133
    smurphy29
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭smurphy29


    DOC was coming under a bit of pressure from Cullen after the 30-0 thrashing alright, but nobody should forget his superb performance against South Africa. In short, he's a starter against Italy.


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    #134
    Ciaran-Irl
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Ciaran-Irl


    Risteard wrote: »
    He had one poor game on the Lions tour which was his first game which is understandable.

    He's played five times for Ireland, twice against weakened teams which you can't really judge him on and twice off the bench at late stages in the game. He's had one start against South Africa where he didn't do too badly. So I don't know why you're saying he's failed to live up to international standards when in reality he's really only had one chance to do so.

    Trimble's positioning was pretty bad when he started playing on the wing for Ireland and bear in mind Earls was being shunted from position to position so that wouldn't have helped him.

    I find it laughable to suggest one of our most talented young players won't be part of the world cup squad after two more years of experience.

    Also, I seem to remember Earls scoring a brace of tries against Fiji.


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    #135
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Risteard wrote: »
    He had one poor game on the Lions tour which was his first game which is understandable.

    a poor first 20 minutes really which some people cant seem to get over

    I find it laughable to suggest one of our most talented young players won't be part of the world cup squad after two more years of experience.

    a quite astonishing claim really


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    #136
    Bugnug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 602 ✭✭✭Bugnug


    Risteard wrote: »
    He had one poor game on the Lions tour which was his first game which is understandable.

    He's played five times for Ireland, twice against weakened teams which you can't really judge him on and twice off the bench at late stages in the game. He's had one start against South Africa where he didn't do too badly. So I don't know why you're saying he's failed to live up to international standards when in reality he's really only had one chance to do so.

    Trimble's positioning was pretty bad when he started playing on the wing for Ireland and bear in mind Earls was being shunted from position to position so that wouldn't have helped him.

    I find it laughable to suggest one of our most talented young players won't be part of the world cup squad after two more years of experience.

    I just think the guy has been completely over hyped when in reality there are several wingers in Ireland who are as good if not better. I dont buy this coming of age stuff your either made for it or not. Look at Kearney, Healy, O Driscoll, O'Connell, Wallace all showed thier worth from day one.


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    #137
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Bugnug wrote: »
    Earls will not be part of the Ireland set up come the world cup.

    Sorry Marcus, but you just don't cut it in the backline. :pac:


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    #138
    Risteard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭Risteard


    Ciaran-Irl wrote: »
    Also, I seem to remember Earls scoring a brace of tries against Fiji.

    I know and one against Canada which if you were to just look at he'd have 3 from 5. A 60% strike rate which is better than Trimble's. But I think he should be judged against top class opposition, no offence to Fiji intended. And he hasn't really been given the chance.

    I remember at one stage in the South African match he put in a tackle on JdV which pushed him into touch. Bearing in mind JdV is quite a big guy, his defence isn't as weak as some would have you think though it is probably one of the weaker aspects of his game.


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    #139
    PhatPiggins
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    Bugnug wrote: »
    I just think the guy has been completely over hyped when in reality there are several wingers in Ireland who are as good if not better. I dont buy this coming of age stuff your either made for it or not. Look at Kearney, Healy, O Driscoll, O'Connell, Wallace all showed thier worth from day one.

    Yet you pump up Healy every day oblivious of his short comings.

    How would you score him on internatioanl performances to date?

    6 maybe 6.5 at best


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    #140
    Bugnug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 602 ✭✭✭Bugnug


    PhatPiggins wrote: »
    Yet you pump up Healy every day oblivious of his short comings.

    How would you score him on internatioanl performances to date?

    6 maybe 6.5 at best

    Of course I give Healy his credit. He proved in the AIs against two of the top three sides in the world that he is world class. Believe me when Cian Healy is a living legend and one of the finest players in world rugby Keith Earls will be long forgotten about at international level.


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    #141
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,197 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Bugnug wrote: »
    What this big prospect business and hype about Earls. Can everbody take a step back here and look at the hard facts. Earls is a fine provincial rugby player but he has failed by a country mile to live up to international standards (and lets not mention the lions tour), his positional play is weak at best, his defence is suspect and he has two left feet. Earls will not be part of the Ireland set up come the world cup.

    so many things wrong with that post ....

    1) As regarding the lions tour he went out there with no real international experience and how many seasoned experienced players with numerous international caps on the lions tour played badly?

    2) He only has 5 caps for ireland with 3 tries.. he came on for fitz in the aus game and played very well against SA considering how little ball he got.. he defence and rucking was also excellent

    3) he has only just turned 22

    take off ur blue tinted glasses much?


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    #142
    Bugnug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 602 ✭✭✭Bugnug


    twinytwo wrote: »
    so many things wrong with that post ....

    1) As regarding the lions tour he went out there with no real international experience and how many seasoned experienced players with numerous international caps on the lions tour played badly?

    2) He only has 5 caps for ireland with 3 tries.. he came on for fitz in the aus game and played very well against SA considering how little ball he got.. he defence and rucking was also excellent

    3) he has only just turned 22

    Why don't we wait and see what the six nations brings if I am wrong come the end of next March and Keith Earls has exceeded all expectations I will hold my hands up.


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    #143
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Bugnug wrote: »
    He proved in the AIs against two of the top three sides in the world that he is world class. Believe me when Cian Healy is a living legend and one of the finest players in world rugby Keith Earls will be long forgotten about at international level.

    been on Boards long Cian?

    will you be playing on Friday?


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    #144
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    I think you mean
    Bugnug wrote: »
    exceeded my expectations

    he only has to meet mine!


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    #145
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Bugnug wrote: »
    I just think the guy has been completely over hyped when in reality there are several wingers in Ireland who are as good if not better. I dont buy this coming of age stuff your either made for it or not. Look at Kearney, Healy, O Driscoll, O'Connell, Wallace all showed thier worth from day one.

    Healy got destroyed in the scrums last November. He's a massive prospect, but apply your own standards.


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    #146
    Bugnug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 602 ✭✭✭Bugnug


    Risteard wrote: »
    I know and one against Canada which if you were to just look at he'd have 3 from 5. A 60% strike rate which is better than Trimble's. But I think he should be judged against top class opposition, no offence to Fiji intended. And he hasn't really been given the chance.

    I remember at one stage in the South African match he put in a tackle on JdV which pushed him into touch. Bearing in mind JdV is quite a big guy, his defence isn't as weak as some would have you think though it is probably one of the weaker aspects of his game.

    Risteard its always a really bad sign when you can pick out individual tackles made by a player to prove his defence ability it just means he is not making enough of them.


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    #147
    Risteard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭Risteard


    Bugnug wrote: »
    I just think the guy has been completely over hyped when in reality there are several wingers in Ireland who are as good if not better. I dont buy this coming of age stuff your either made for it or not. Look at Kearney, Healy, O Driscoll, O'Connell, Wallace all showed thier worth from day one.

    The same Kearney that ****ed up against Toulouse for Leinster by gifting them a try? Kearney didn't step up to the plate straight away. He was playing for Leinster since the 05-06 season, maybe not in the high profile matches but playing nonetheless. He made his 6 Nations debut after two years of professional rugby compared with not even a few months for Earls (who has yet to play in the 6N ) when he was played against the All Blacks. So it's not like Kearney just walked into the Irish team straight after his Leinster debut, he had two years experience to call upon.

    Likewise Healy. And you could argue that he didn't step up to the plate because he didn't complete a prop's primary function of scrummaging, but that's nonsense.


    O'Driscoll is a special player IMO. It'll be a long time before we see someone as gifted as him, if we're lucky enough to produce someone else. Plus you have to bear in mind when BOD broke on to the scene, defences were a lot less tight and organised than they are now and BOD has adapted his game as such.


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    #148
    PhatPiggins
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    Bugnug wrote: »
    Of course I give Healy his credit. He proved in the AIs against two of the top three sides in the world that he is world class. Believe me when Cian Healy is a living legend and one of the finest players in world rugby Keith Earls will be long forgotten about at international level.

    Sorry I thought I read that you were planning on becoming a rugby coach.

    He was demolished in the AI's.

    You must have an awful pain in your neck from that gigantic chip on your shoulder


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    #149
    RuggieBear
    Registered Users Posts: 17,958 ✭✭✭✭RuggieBear


    discuss rugby folks. no more pot shots.

    any more provincial stuff will be dealt with harshly


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    #150
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Bugnug wrote: »
    Why don't we wait and see what the six nations brings if I am wrong come the end of next March and Keith Earls has exceeded all expectations I will hold my hands up.

    What are your expectations?


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    #151
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Bugnug wrote: »
    Risteard its always a really bad sign when you can pick out individual tackles made by a player to prove his defence ability it just means he is not making enough of them.

    I suppose picking out scrums where Healy was beaten are simply exceptions which prove the rule:pac:


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