National Postcodes to be introduced

recedite

An Post is one legal entity.
The postcode provider is a different one.
One has the authority to tell you what your legal address is, and the other one does not.
Obviously there is going to be a lot of overlap in data, because at the moment both happen to be using geodirectory.

antoinolachtnai

An Post does not determine 'legal' addresses. They determine postal addresses and you are required to use the assigned postal address for postal purposes even if it does not represent accurately where your property is located. That was the whole point of the ComReg / An Post action.

ukoda

recedite wrote: »

An Post is one legal entity.
The postcode provider is a different one.
One has the authority to tell you what your legal address is, and the other one does not.

eircode aren't telling anyone what address to use? They are simply saying here's the postcode for that listed An Post address, use it if you want, but it's not mandatory.

And I wondering, surely eircodes will be added to the geo directory, so then does it become An Posts official address for that property?

Also bear in mind that one eircode could be associated with a number of alias addresses for the same location/address

Bayberry

recedite wrote: »

The TD's could easily have sorted that out by inserting into an amendment something simple such as "the unique address as listed in the postcode provider's database shall be considered the legal address of the property".
That would then override the previous High Court ruling involving Comreg and An Post.

My understanding of the court case in question isn't that it was decided that An Post could define/assign legal addresses, but that it was entirely up to An Post to decide what address they would recognize for delivery purposes. If An Post decides that certain addresses on the Roscommon side of the Shannon will be serviced as part of their Westmeath routes, and should use Westmeath addresses for delivery purposes, then nobody can force An Post to deliver mail that has a Co Roscommon address for those locations, but the houses in question are still legally in Co Roscommon. If you try to send mail to those houses using a Co Roscommon address, it will probably be delivered, but it will be delayed, and it won't affect An Posts on-time statistics, because it is mis-addressed.

irishgeo

are we there yet?

SPDUB

Bayberry wrote: »

My understanding of the court case in question isn't that it was decided that An Post could define/assign legal addresses, but that it was entirely up to An Post to decide what address they would recognize for delivery purposes. If An Post decides that certain addresses on the Roscommon side of the Shannon will be serviced as part of their Westmeath routes, and should use Westmeath addresses for delivery purposes, then nobody can force An Post to deliver mail that has a Co Roscommon address for those locations, but the houses in question are still legally in Co Roscommon. If you try to send mail to those houses using a Co Roscommon address, it will probably be delivered, but it will be delayed, and it won't affect An Posts on-time statistics, because it is mis-addressed.

Precisely Comreg even tried to say that if it even took a second postman to bring mail to that address from the other delivery office then An Post had to do that to keep within on time statistics

dr.fuzzenstein

irishgeo wrote: »

are we there yet?

Just a few more times over the horizon.

Trouwe Ier

The proposed amendments were raised, responded to by the Minister and then withdrawn.

My understanding from reading below is that we seem to be on track for Monday. Senator Mulcahy is a Fine Gael Senator on the Labour Panel.


Reproduced from http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/seanad2015070100002?opendocument#CC00200

Bill reported without amendment and received for final consideration.

Question, "That the Bill do now pass", put and declared carried.

Communications Regulation (Postal Services) (Amendment) Bill 2015: Motion for Earlier Signature

Senator Tony Mulcahy: Information on Tony Mulcahy Zoom on Tony Mulcahy I move:

That pursuant to subsection 2° of section 2 of Article 25 of the Constitution, Seanad Éireann concurs with the Government in a request to the President to sign the Communications Regulation (Postal Services) (Amendment) Bill 2015 on a date which is earlier than the fifth day after the date on which the Bill shall have been presented to him.

Question put and agreed to.

Sitting suspended at 3.25 p.m. and resumed at 5 p.m

ukoda

Trouwe Ier wrote: »

The proposed amendments were raised, responded to by the Minister and then withdrawn.

My understanding from reading below is that we seem to be on track for Monday. Senator Mulcahy is a Fine Gael Senator on the Labour Panel.


Reproduced from http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/seanad2015070100002?opendocument#CC00200

Bill reported without amendment and received for final consideration.

Question, "That the Bill do now pass", put and declared carried.

Communications Regulation (Postal Services) (Amendment) Bill 2015: Motion for Earlier Signature

Senator Tony Mulcahy: Information on Tony Mulcahy Zoom on Tony Mulcahy I move:

That pursuant to subsection 2° of section 2 of Article 25 of the Constitution, Seanad Éireann concurs with the Government in a request to the President to sign the Communications Regulation (Postal Services) (Amendment) Bill 2015 on a date which is earlier than the fifth day after the date on which the Bill shall have been presented to him.

Question put and agreed to.

Sitting suspended at 3.25 p.m. and resumed at 5 p.m

Wow Monday so?! Finally

clewbays

Worth posting again!

That pursuant to subsection 2 of section 2 of Article 25 of the Constitution, Seanad Éireann concurs with the Government in a request to the President to sign the Communications Regulation (Postal Services) (Amendment) Bill 2015 on a date which is earlier than the fifth day after the date on which the Bill shall have been presented to him.

Question put and agreed to.

So I suppose by mid-July we will have the end of the beginning!

Trouwe Ier

clewbays wrote: »

Worth posting again!

That pursuant to subsection 2 of section 2 of Article 25 of the Constitution, Seanad Éireann concurs with the Government in a request to the President to sign the Communications Regulation (Postal Services) (Amendment) Bill 2015 on a date which is earlier than the fifth day after the date on which the Bill shall have been presented to him.

Question put and agreed to.

So I suppose by mid-July we will have the end of the beginning!

I think earlier because why else would they suggest such a motion. I assume that the question was "planted" on him and he dutifully asked it. There may be some sort of penalty clause in the contract relating to delays.

It might also be the case that advertising space has been paid for in the media for this weekend. Perhaps all is lined up for Monday.

If the President signed the vellum copy, on say, Friday, then the Act would be law. However, there is a case to be argued about whether or not this type of motion pressurises the Head of State. I wonder how often it is used.

As with all of my utterances, the usual health warnings apply!

recedite

Technically the govt. are allowed to make a special request to rush the President.
From Article 25;

1° Save as otherwise provided by this Constitution, every Bill so presented to the President for his signature and for promulgation by him as a law shall be signed by the President not earlier than the fifth and not later than the seventh day after the date on which the Bill shall have been presented to him.
2° At the request of the Government, with the prior concurrence of Seanad Éireann, the President may sign any Bill the subject of such request on a date which is earlier than the fifth day after such date as aforesaid.

I presume this is a face saving exercise by Alex White. He has already rubbished the proposed amendments and "induced" senators to withdraw them, so as not to delay matters.
So it would appear there is a lot of political "scuttling around" going on in the background to make sure this law is passed before the last announced launch date of July 6th.

TheBustedFlush

I think we can expect more than one code announcement from the start of next week.....

One code for postal addresses, a geo-code for everything else.

a65b2cd

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

I think we can expect more than one code announcement from the start of next week.....

One code for postal addresses, a geo-code for everything else.

Interesting, will everything else be classified so that those for bridges, lakes, pylons, bus stops, train stations, public car parks, etc. can be grouped?

ukoda

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

I think we can expect more than one code announcement from the start of next week.....

One code for postal addresses, a geo-code for everything else.

There was an announcement 5 years ago about a geo code, was even in the news, very few used it, I doubt anyone will start now.

SpaceTime

I note Parcel Motel had a space for eircode when I was redirecting a package this morning !

ukoda

So pathetic, constant constant constant tweeting

TheChizler

You weren't kidding!

SpaceTime

That's really not how you do PR.

ukoda

TheChizler wrote: »

You weren't kidding!

I didn't even post the one where they call auto address "auto gimp"

It's the carry on of a 12 year old who just discovered Twitter


EDIT: Sure I may as well post it.... "Autogimp yer lying"

TheBustedFlush

ukoda wrote: »

There was an announcement 5 years ago about a geo code, was even in the news, very few used it, I doubt anyone will start now.

Which geo-code are you talking about though?

ukoda

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

Which geo-code are you talking about though?

Loc8 launched 5 years ago, had its moment on the 6 o'clock news, 5 years later, Hardly anyone in the general public even knows about it. I question the demand for it or any type of geo code now.

If loc8 or any other geo code is so wonderful, why does no one use them (apart from a tiny minority)

TheBustedFlush

ukoda wrote: »

Loc8 launched 5 years ago, had its moment on the 6 o'clock news, 5 years later, Hardly anyone in the general public even knows about it. I question the demand for it or any type of geo code now.

If loc8 or any other geo code is so wonderful, why does no one use them (apart from a tiny minority)

Fair point however I think the introduction of a national postcode that is confined to postal addresses once launched publicly may well highlight the apparent void in not having a code for other places/things. Thus it's more likely that Eircode could possibly bring in a geocode for other places, events, assets, etc. and that is likely to gain more support and awareness due to its role as the national postcode provider.

spuddy

Oh oh
"...the FTAI has formally lodged an unlawful state aid complaint with the European Commission, arguing that Eircode’s structure gives an unfair advantage to An Post."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/eircode-is-useless-says-transport-and-courier-trade-body-340245.html

spuddy

spuddy wrote: »

Oh oh
"...the FTAI has formally lodged an unlawful state aid complaint with the European Commission, arguing that Eircode’s structure gives an unfair advantage to An Post."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/eircode-is-useless-says-transport-and-courier-trade-body-340245.html

Bit late for anything to happen now surely!
Could this delay the rollout?

ukoda

spuddy wrote: »

Oh oh
"...the FTAI has formally lodged an unlawful state aid complaint with the European Commission, arguing that Eircode’s structure gives an unfair advantage to An Post."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/eircode-is-useless-says-transport-and-courier-trade-body-340245.html

Funny how they think they can claim it's useless to competitors when Nightline say its of benefit to them.

_Puma_

Considering the government have already been reprimanded for the Eircode tendering process, you would have to think they European Comission will take this complaint pretty seriously. A pretty damning indictment of Eircode regardless.

ukoda

_Puma_ wrote: »

Considering the government have already been reprimanded for the Eircode tendering process, you would have to think they European Comission will take this complaint pretty seriously. A pretty damning indictment of Eircode regardless.

They won't entertain it, "illegal state aid" by having our national POSTcode conform to our national POST office operations, with a private sector company operating the postcode from a contract our national postal service provider lost out on. With the ability to demonstrate that another private operator competitor (Nightline) can benefit from the code.

The government have nothing to worry about with this.

_Puma_

Couldnt care less if the govenrment are worried or not, I think its pretty obvious the whole thing has been fudged from the get go it has deviated so much from the guidelines.

However if the FTAI believe that Eircode amounts to state aid for an Post do you really think that all the Courier companies under them are going to leverage Eircode in their delivery process, bearing in mind it will cost a lot of money for these companies to adapt to include Eircode. If they believe Eircode amounts to state aid I'm pretty sure they are not going to lose sleep if Eircode dies a death and will go on using the system in use now. All Eircode will be good for is filling out a form for revenue and we end up with another white elephant.

I think Nightlines position is very curious. If Eircode is not adopted by all the courier companies then there supposed support of it will become irrelevant. Eircode either gets adopted by the general public to such an extent that it is commercially viable or it does not. You wont see people all deciding to switch to Nightline because they use Eircode.

What would have made sense is if Eircode was trialled for period before the rollout. Still haven't read a reason why it wasn't.

plodder

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

I think we can expect more than one code announcement from the start of next week.....

One code for postal addresses, a geo-code for everything else.

Announced by who though? I doubt the state would be endorsing any code that would compete with Eircode..