****UFC 100 all Spoilers go here****

Kazooie

chopperbyrne wrote: »

So talking a bit of trash makes you a cúnt, but punching a clearly unconscious man full force and then bragging about it is fine?

How did he know he was clearly unconscious? The time between both shots was split seconds, Is he supposed to decide on whether or not to hit him again in that space of time?

I don't hate Lesnar because he came from WWE like most do, I just think he's very, very disrespectul. Last night just proved it. Reminded me of Colemans roid rage after he lost to Fedor.

rovert

Kazooie wrote: »

How did he know he was clearly unconscious? The time between both shots was split seconds, Is he supposed to decide on whether or not to hit him again in that space of time?

This gif shows pretty well that it was not a calculated decision.

Kazooie wrote: »

I don't hate Lesnar because he came from WWE like most do, I just think he's very, very disrespectul.

Well the crowd he was in front were just as disrespectul.

Mikeyt086

Kazooie wrote: »

How did he know he was clearly unconscious?

He said he knew he was unconcious. He admitted it.

As far as i saw aswell, Lesnar celebrated, turned around and saw Mir get up and gesture or say something to him, thats why he got in his face.

Raze_them_all

Yeah hendo clearly admitted he hit him the second time to "shut his mouth"

Kent Brockman

I think Hendo was fighting on instinct and being ruthless in the finish (like most fighters in fairness when they think the finish is there). Sure he knew he had downed his opponent and following up to make sure of the finish. It was one extra punch FFS, just after his opponent had hit the canvas. We have seen many times where a guy has pounded the sh1t out of an obviously unconsious opponent (Rashad, rampage to name the 1st 2 that come to mind)

I think in hind-sight that Hendo was definitely making sure of the KO but is saying what he thinks the fans want to hear ie that he gave him one for extra measure to shut him up, no harm done IMO no harm done to his rep.

Fozzy

Even if Henderson didn't knowingly hit an unconscious opponent, saying that he did is a lot worse than Brock saying that he pulled a horseshoe out of Mir's ass. Yet the more I've been reading people's opinions in different places, the more people are dwelling on Brock's disrespect

Brock even apologised! Henderson didn't at all

dunkamania

Given that Hendo kept his mouth shut through all the build up to the Bisping fight, and then said one line about wanting to shut him up while the adrenaline is still pumping, is not a major issue for me. The last hit looks like he was making sure, cant criticise it.

I have alot more trouble with Brock's actions, completely different league. Getting in Mir's face, flipping off the crowd etc.

rovert

dunkamania wrote: »

I have alot more trouble with Brock's actions, completely different league. Getting in Mir's face, flipping off the crowd etc.

A different league from Ken Shamrock, Tito Ortiz, Rampage Jackson, the Diaz brothers etc etc?

Fromvert

Im just delighted Coleman got the win, what a man. Cant wait to see the fight.

Hendo went until the ref stepped in, which he should do.
Lesnar got booed gave the finger to the crowd and got in Mir's face after Mir had said something when the fight was over.
GSP total domination, never makes a mistake. I think he would do the same if he does fight Silva.
Dont think Akiyama should of won.
Fitch as usual gets the decision.

Fozzy

Brock had just beaten a guy who'd been talking down about him for a long time and the crowd were booing him. I don't blame him for giving them the finger. There's never this level of outrage after the dozens of times that Nick Diaz, for example, has given both fighters and fans the finger. Lest we forget the near all-out brawl that he and Nate once instigated in Hawaii after a fight. I just see it like Brock is being singled out a lot more than others for getting excited after a huge win

padi89

Kazooie wrote: »

How did he know he was clearly unconscious? The time between both shots was split seconds, Is he supposed to decide on whether or not to hit him again in that space of time?

"I believe I [shut him up] for a little while, I don’t know if he’ll ever shut his mouth completely, though. Normally, I’m not that way in fights. I know if a guy is out. I tend to stop. I knew I hit him out. I think that last one was just to shut him up a little bit"

In fairness i think Joe Rogan was wrong to question him on it, it was just for the crowd.
Anyhoo, i don't see a problem with what he did to finish the fight, the only issue is he just answered a dumb question with a dumb answer

Kazooie

rovert wrote: »

This gif shows pretty well that it was not a calculated decision.




Well the crowd he was in front were just as disrespectul.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Work to get the crowd on your side, by being humble in victory. Not flipping them off. Why are you defending him?

swaaaa

brock was a total di*k, in fairness he apologised in the press conference afterward, to mir and bud light

Fozzy

Kazooie wrote: »

Two wrongs don't make a right. Work to get the crowd on your side, by being humble in victory. Not flipping them off. Why are you defending him?

He was humble after the Couture fight and that did no good in getting people on his side. Some people are just determined to hate him no matter what he does

Zero-Cool

Just watched the fight, sorry if what i'm bout to say was already said!!

I was actually a Brock fan (even though wanted Mir to win) but was just pissed off with that fight. Waited too long just to see that big ape lying on Mir til the ref stopped it.

As much as it put me off liking brock though, it was funny when he said he was gonna go home and drink some coors light and get on top of the wife.

what was up with Mir's knee??

Davei141

rovert wrote: »

Tell that to the "mark" fans booing

What has fans booing got to do with him getting in Mirs face and being completely classless in victory? Because they booed he can do what he likes?

rovert wrote: »

Nah he just plays one on TV

Yeah anything he does wrong is just him "selling PPV's".

Fozzy wrote: »

Brock had just beaten a guy who'd been talking down about him for a long time and the crowd were booing him. I don't blame him for giving them the finger. There's never this level of outrage after the dozens of times that Nick Diaz, for example, has given both fighters and fans the finger. Lest we forget the near all-out brawl that he and Nate once instigated in Hawaii after a fight. I just see it like Brock is being singled out a lot more than others for getting excited after a huge win

Lots of fighters smack talk but after the fight you shake hands you don't go getting in their face while they are receiving treatment. The Diaz brothers have and always will be dirtbags, nobody tries to pretend otherwise, nobody tries to say they are "playing heel" "selling PPV's" "playing up to the TV" when they do **** that is out of order, so i dont know why you lot won't admit that fact.

rovert

Kazooie wrote: »

Two wrongs don't make a right. Work to get the crowd on your side, by being humble in victory. Not flipping them off. Why are you defending him?

As you and others are holding him to ridiclous and inconsistant standards. It is ok for internet darlings to do it but not Brock it seems.

Davei141 wrote: »

Yeah anything he does wrong is just him "selling PPV's".

Either that or people who say it was so wrong don’t know what is most effective in selling fights.

Davei141 wrote: »

Lots of fighters smack talk but after the fight you shake hands you don't go getting in their face while they are receiving treatment. The Diaz brothers have and always will be dirtbags, nobody tries to pretend otherwise, nobody tries to say they are "playing heel" "selling PPV's" "playing up to the TV" when they do **** that is out of order, so i dont know why you lot won't admit that fact.

You don’t hear the type of outcry about the Diaz brothers from Hardcore fans as you do with Brock. The Diaz brothers DO play up to the TV they deliberately find the camera and flip it off or whatever more often than not.

PirateShampoo

Don't really have a problem with Henderson hitting Bisping the second time, i had more of a issue with that after knocking him out pretty brutally he didn't once check to see if he was ok. That just bad sportsmanship.

Has for Lesnar, i think the guy was brilliant. He was pumped full of adrenalin and said some stupid stuff, but this was how he was encouraged to act in the WWE, like he said hes there to sell ppv.

At least he apologized.

Kazooie

Mod edit- Read rule 8, no more warnings

Davei141

rovert wrote: »

As you and others are holding him to ridiclous and inconsistant standards. It is ok for internet darlings to do it but not Brock it seems.

Ridiculous standards? You see nothing wrong with his post fight antics at all?

rovert

Davei141 wrote: »

Ridiculous standards?

Yes they arent a "different league" many, many fighters have done the exact
same thing. He isnt the first person to say and do those things despite people acting like it is.

Davei141 wrote: »

You see nothing wrong with his post fight antics at all?

Never said I did, dissing sponsers was ****ing stupid otherwise I thought the rest was extremely effective (perhaps too much so) and deserved.

Davei141

rovert wrote: »

Either that or people who say it was so wrong don’t know what is most effective in selling fights.

Listen you can justify him acting like a total gimp with the money excuse but it doesn't wash or it shouldn't.

You don’t hear the type of outcry about the Diaz brothers from Hardcore fans as you do with Brock. The Diaz brothers DO play up to the TV they deliberately find the camera and flip it off or whatever more often than not.

The diaz brothers are assholes. Trying to justify everything that went on with a "diaz brothers done it" doesn't cut it. I dont like the diaz brothers so your point is mute with regards to me anyway.

rovert wrote: »

Yes they arent a "different league" many, many fighters have done the exact
same thing. He isnt the first person to say and do those things despite people acting like it is.

I don't know about you but every time i see a fighter act like a dick after a fight i lose a lot of respect for them, regardless of who they are. I think its amazing that 2 guys can beat the crap out of each other and shake hands after it. I don't want to see that go from the sport under the guise of making more money.

Never said I did, dissing sponsers was ****ing stupid otherwise I thought the rest was extremely effective (perhaps too much so) and deserved.

I should be more clear. Flipping off the crowd? That doesn't bother me. Getting in Franks face just after the fight finished, THAT bothered me. **** the crowd, show your opponent some respect.

rovert

Davei141 wrote: »

Listen you can justify him acting like a total gimp with the money excuse but it doesn't wash or it shouldn't.

"Money excuse" last time I checked the UFC was a business and the Fighters in it work to maxmise earning via winning fights, bonuses and being a part of fights people want to see.

Davei141 wrote: »

The diaz brothers are assholes. Trying to justify everything that went on with a "diaz brothers done it" doesn't cut it. I dont like the diaz brothers so your point is mute with regards to me anyway.

The Diaz brothers were just one of a list of fights. I’m not trying to justify anything merely outlining some peoples ridiculous and inconsistent standards in regards to Brock by pointing out other fighters have done the exact same thing who didn’t get the treatment Brock has got.

Davei141 wrote: »

I don't know about you but every time i see a fighter act like a dick after a fight i lose a lot of respect for them, regardless of who they are. I think its amazing that 2 guys can beat the crap out of each other and shake hands after it. I don't want to see that go from the sport under the guise of making more money.

Yeah as this stuff is a disgrace to the legacy of Tank Abbot, right? MMA has always been about money and was never a pure sport.

Davei141 wrote: »

I should be more clear. Flipping off the crowd? That doesn't bother me. Getting in Franks face just after the fight finished, THAT bothered me. **** the crowd, show your opponent some respect.

Thats fine and I prefer that to happen more often than not. But this was a grudge fight in a way I think that type of thing is more honest in a way. Respect should be a genuine display not tokenage, insincere fakery.

Fozzy

I'd like to know what Frank was getting up to say to Brock after the fight

Brock's a very "treat others as they treat you" kind of guy. He was very respectful after his loss to Mir. Same when he beat Couture, as Randy had never said a bad word about him. He acted up after beating Herring because of Heath and his team saying how insulted they were to be fighting a fake wrestler before and during the fight. And he acted up last night because he obviously didn't feel like Frank had respected him, and maybe the fans too for that matter

I don't think that Brock's a disrespectful guy by nature, I've never heard any bad stories about him from any of his former co-workers, and he did apologise later

I've heard what he did compared to Mike Tyson biting off Holyfield's ear. This is the sort of stuff that is annoying me. Personally I had no problem with what Brock did and I can understand if others did, but only up to a certain level

T-K-O

Lesnar comes across like a right wanker. I dont mind what he said after the fight, that happens - guys always say dumb things after fights they are pumped up.

Before the fight he was saying he had no respect for Couture or any fighter, he seems to come out with a load of crap.

rovert

Lesnar a perfect villain for UFC
By Arash Markazi

LAS VEGAS -- If UFC president Dana White were in the business of creating characters instead of fighters, storylines instead of matches and superheroes instead of champions, he still couldn't have dreamt up a villain as perfect as Brock Lesnar.

Even when Lesnar was in the fanciful world of the WWE and it was his job to play the role of an evil wrecking ball, he never played the part as beautifully, as masterfully, as deliciously wicked as he is now in the real world of the UFC.

The main event of Saturday night's UFC 100 card will likely be remembered more for what happened after Lesnar beat Frank Mir with a second round TKO to become the undisputed UFC heavyweight champion than what happened during the fight. The battle was nothing more than a brief ground-and-pound exhibition where Lesnar reminded the capacity crowd at the Mandalay Bay Events Center why he was a former NCAA heavyweight wrestling champion.

After referee Herb Dean stopped the fight 1:48 into the second round as Lesnar whaled away at Mir's bloodied face in the corner of the Octagon, Lesnar got up, pointed at the crowd and raised both his middle fingers in victory as he was showered with boos. He then got in Mir's face as his defeated challenger came to and brushed off security guards as they tried to control him.

It was scene reminiscent of "Stone Cold" Steve Austin at the height of his career as his rebel persona lifted the WWE to new heights of popularity. The only thing missing was a Coors Light victory shower although Lesnar promised that would come later.

"I'm going to go home tonight and drink a Coors Light because Bud Light won't pay me," said Lesnar, pointing at the logo of the presenting sponsor of the event. "I'm going to sit down with my friends and family and hell, I might even get on top of my wife tonight."

As if that wasn't enough Lesnar continued with an entertaining post-fight rant that was better than any promo he ever cut while he was in professional wrestling.

"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass and I told him that a year ago," said Lesnar, who refused to touch gloves or shake hands with Mir before or after the fight. "I pulled that [expletive] down and I beat him up. Whooo!"

Only five fights into his MMA career and Lesnar already looks and sounds more comfortable than he ever did in in the WWE. He also seems equally at ease as when he compiled a 106-5 record as an amateur wrestler.

Lesnar was made for this "heel" role in the UFC. He relishes it and feeds off it unlike anyone else the sport has ever seen. As he hugged his wife Rena (wrestling fans will remember her by her stage name, "Sable"), he smiled and turned to the camera and pointed at a nonexistent dimple as exited the Octagon and encouraged the crowd to continue to boo him. "I love it," he said. "Keep going."

While Lesnar may have looked like an uncontrollable loose cannon after the fight, he was a changed man when he walked into the press room soon after. Wearing a wide smile and holding a Bud Light, he took a big swig as he looked at White and said, "I love Bud Light! I must have caught a hard knee to the head."

After the fight White had pulled Lesnar out of the locker room and chewed him out before Lesnar nodded his head and said that he was embarrassed and sorry. For as entertaining as Lesnar's act might have been to some, White has worked hard to attract mainstream advertisers like Bud Light and Burger King as wasn't about to let Lesnar ruin those relationships in an effort to momentarily incite the crowd.

"I was blown away. I don't think in the history of the UFC we've ever had someone do something like that," said White. "It's not who we are and it's not who he is. I've spent time with the guy. He gets in there and the adrenaline starts kicking and the mouth starts moving, but the brain isn't sending anything to his mouth. If he was a [bad guy], I would tell you, but he's not. He's a smart guy. He's been in the WWE so long that he thinks he has to jump in there and be the heel."

As much as White and Lesnar were able to save face with their mainstream sponsors, the fact is White and the UFC have created their growing niche by having a certain renegade persona that goes in the opposite direction of the mainstream. The next time White has an interview or press conference not laced with a dozen expletives while calling out rival promoters or fighters will be the first.

Lesnar might be a "good guy" out of the Octagon but the fact is, the guy is a perfect "bad guy" in the cage and no different than Dennis Rodman and Mike Tyson, who attracted attention and put on a show when the spotlight shone. Lesnar might apologize now, but I would be shocked if we don't see a repeat performance after his next act. And as much as White might act agitated, he should be comforted by the growing pay-per-view numbers and ticket sales.

"I was in the entertainment business for a while and I guess there's still a little bit of that in me," said Lesnar. "I get asked if there's anything I could drag over from the WWE and I guess you saw a little bit tonight. I'm used to selling pay-per-views and tickets."

Like him or not, that is certainly what Lesnar did Saturday night as he established himself as not only the undisputed UFC heavyweight champion, but also the best heel in MMA history. The next step is getting him in the Octagon with the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world, Fedor Emelianenko, who remains the sole MMA headliner that has yet to fight for the UFC.

"Eventually Fedor is going to be here," said White. "I want Fedor. I want Fedor to come to the UFC. We'll get the deal done and we'll get Brock vs. Fedor and it will be a huge fight."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...nar.wins.title/

This is a pretty good article and I liked this paragraph in particular:

Only five fights into his MMA career and Lesnar already looks and sounds more comfortable than he ever did in in the WWE. He also seems equally at ease as when he compiled a 106-5 record as an amateur wrestler.

shenanigans1982

Fozzy wrote: »

I'd like to know what Frank was getting up to say to Brock after the fight

I don't think he was getting up to say anything. I think he was knocked out by Lesnar then came to and still thought he was in the middle of a fight and scrambled to his feet.

Fozzy wrote: »

Brock's a very "treat others as they treat you" kind of guy. He was very respectful after his loss to Mir. Same when he beat Couture

After his fight with Couture he went around saluting the crowd the way Couture does....not a big thing but still disrespectful.

Fozzy wrote: »

I don't think that Brock's a disrespectful guy by nature, I've never heard any bad stories about him from any of his former co-workers, and he did apologise later

I disagree, I think the guy is disrespectful and childish at times. What we seen in the Octagon last night post fight was the real attitude of Lesnar. I didn't see the press conference but I think that might have been Lesnar speaking someone elses words.

rovert

Sorry to post another one but this probably one of the best article's Ive read:

PENICK: Want fake feuds to sell fights? Watch pro wrestling; Lesnar's post fight reaction and the double standard

By: Jamie Penick, MMATorch Editor-in-Chief
Jul 12, 2009 - 2:31:58 PM

There's been a lot of outrage over the actions of Brock Lesnar on last night's UFC 100 event after pummeling out a TKO victory over Frank Mir in their Undisputed Heavyweight Title bout. He got into Mir's face after Mir stumbled back up to his feet, relished in the boos from the crowd and amplified them by flipping the crowd off before launching into a post fight tirade for which he's subsequently apologized.

But the venom being spewed towards Brock is coming at an extreme, and unfair level, from some considering a number of factors leading into the fight and the unrealistic desire for full on "sportsmanship" and respect when it comes to the fight game.

How many times have we seen fighters go into fights with supposed "bad blood" only to squash everything that led up to the fight once it's over in completely disingenuous fashion? When they overly hype a feud and openly admit that it was all to build that fight, like B.J. Penn was quick to do after defeating Sean Sherk last year, do you know what that is? It's pro wrestling. It's building in a falsified feud and bad feelings between guys to sell a fight. Matt Hughes and Matt Serra built up a bad blood feud for two years and people didn't like when they just let it all slide after the bout.

Frank Mir spent the last six months doing nothing but cutting down Lesnar and everything from his training to his skill level to his coaches. Lesnar has yet to be accepted by a large group of fans despite his amateur background and freakish ability to adapt to the MMA game, and it's because of the time spent in WWE. Shane Carwin doesn't get derided by fans with ten or so dominant fights under his belt; Cain Velasquez doesn't get an outcry from people and is talked about as a challenger with five fights under his belt, but Lesnar is somehow undeserving of his spot even though he's beaten three higher level fighters than the ones defeated by the aforementioned challengers?

It's a ridiculous double standard that people want to hold him to because he comes across as an asshole to many and he's a former WWE guy. I have zero problems with him confronting Mir after the fight or making the comment about taking the horseshoe out of Mir's ass and beat him over the head with it, because it would have been an entirely false reaction to just take it in stride with everything that had been said coming into the fight. Frank Mir unleashed an angry beast in Brock Lesnar with all of the trash talking he did coming into this fight, and he paid for it. To expect a fighter to be completely respectful and sportsmanlike after every fight is not realistic, because not every fight in this sport is between two guys with a mutual respect. Bad blood is part of the game, and if fighters can't express themselves once the fight's over like they did what they set out to do than that's not right.

Dan Henderson did something very similar in a low key way earlier in the night. If anything, what Henderson did was even worse because he knew he knocked Michael Bisping out with the first shot and delivered an insanely brutal finishing punch before the ref could get there. Yes, fighters are supposed to fight until the ref stops them, but the bad blood of that feud led Henderson to knowingly add an extra shot, and he admitted as much last night.

People can deride it as being bad for the sport, but it's not. Did Bisping show sportsmanship after getting beat by Henderson? I didn't see any handshake. I didn't see Frank Mir congratulate Brock for getting the best of him, so why is the onus on the winners to show that same vein of sportsmanship and respect? If anything, the way Brock reveled in the boos and turned some people off will lead to even bigger business down the line as people pay to see the next challenger try to shut him up.

The one thing he stepped over the line on from a business sense was in directly calling out a sponsor, and he apologized for that afterward. At the same time, it was one of the funnier lines that's been said in a post fight interview and he gained probably as many fans as he lost with those antics.

The point is, Brock Lesnar is not a cancer for the sport, he's the best thing that's happened to it in years. He didn't need to show how much he's worked on other areas of the game because he fought a smart fight that neutralized a BJJ black belt for seven minutes en route to that victory. He's only five fights in and he's just going to get better because all he does is train for this sport. He's a legitimate mixed martial artist and the sooner people accept him as such the smoother things will be with this pre and post fight stuff. He's getting poked and prodded verbally from all sides and he can do nothing but react when he's got a chance. Regardless, he's here to stay.

http://www.mmatorch.com/artman2/publish/penickstake/article_2776.shtml

Fozzy

Good point about fighters just saying that the trash talking was all in good fun after a fight. I remember being a little annoyed when BJ said that after he beat Sherk. He was admitting that he'd been conning the fans for the previous few months, but I didn't mind that much because I already knew that it probably wasn't all 100% real. Still, I don't see the point in admitting it after a fight

ginoginelli

2 good articles there with some good points.