Local & European Elections 2009 - Part Two ** New Poll **

dlofnep

I probably should have done that too, didn't think of it at all.

Sully

The SF candidate who refuses to condemn Jerry McCabes killers.. Wonder will that effect her in anyway. *ponders*

AdMMM

but Sully, she's hot! My pencil couldn't help but be magnetised towards her! In saying that, her suggestive smile was only good enough for my number 5 vote!

nkay1985

AdMMM wrote: »

but Sully, she's hot! My pencil couldn't help but be magnetised towards her! In saying that, her suggestive smile was only good enough for my number 5 vote!

Yeah I reckon her looks are worth an extra couple of percent!

Gulamugas

AdMMM wrote: »

but Sully, she's hot! My pencil couldn't help but be magnetised towards her! In saying that, her suggestive smile was only good enough for my number 5 vote!

I'd certainly agree shed put lead in any mans pencil.

nkay1985

Gulamugas wrote: »

I'd certainly agree shed put lead in any mans pencil.

I don't get it, is she an office supplies salesperson or something?

:P

dlofnep

Sully wrote: »

The SF candidate who refuses to condemn Jerry McCabes killers.. Wonder will that effect her in anyway. *ponders*

No, it won't affect her. She didn't refuse to condemn it - she felt that it was before her time, and she was only a child when it happened so there is hardly an onus on her to condemn it. The girl was only 15 or 16 when it happened.. It's typical gutter-media trying to bring up old-news in an attempt to attack the character of what is otherwise, a very good candidate.

I was 13 when Jerry McCabe was shot. Should I have to condemn his killing when it happened at a time when my interests included Nintendo, Sega and girls?

There are alot more important things than someone being called out to condemn a killing that happened way before the said person's time. Should Toireasa have to condemn attacks made by the PIRA in the 60's also?

Should Labour have to condemn the attacks by the Stickies?

Should Fine Gael have to condemn the actions of the Blue Shirts?

It has no bearing on her role in Europe, whatsoever.

nkay1985

dlofnep wrote: »

No, it won't affect her. She didn't refuse to condemn it - she felt that it was before her time, and she was only a child when it happened so there is hardly an onus on her to condemn it. The girl was only 15 or 16 when it happened.. It's typical gutter-media trying to bring up old-news in an attempt to attack the character of what is otherwise, a very good candidate.

I was 13 when Jerry McCabe was shot. Should I have to condemn his killing when it happened at a time when my interests included Nintendo, Sega and girls?

There are alot more important things than someone being called out to condemn a killing that happened way before the said person's time. Should Toireasa have to condemn attacks made by the PIRA in the 60's also?

Should Labour have to condemn the attacks by the Stickies?

Should Fine Gael have to condemn the actions of the Blue Shirts?

It has no bearing on her role in Europe, whatsoever.

It's just the same line that has been thrown around by the other parties for the whole duration of the campaign and I would think people are tired of hearing it at this stage to be honest.

Gael23

nkay1985 wrote: »

II don't see any reason why you can't give his name. This is an incident that factually happened and there were other witnesses so there's no legal issue.

Al i will say until sully approves is that it was one of the 2 independant candidates you mentioned in your previous post.

dlofnep

ryanf1 wrote: »

Definately much less. I have been canvassing with an FG candidate and someone said to us that they dont often knock, instead just post leaflets.
As regards Gary Wyse, I understood that only leaflet dropping could be done today, it was quite loud in my estate.

FF did knock on my door when canvassing, but the guy who knocked seemed very nervous. FF candidates are certainly quieter - Some of them don't even have the FF logo on their posters. Drive out towards ardkeen, and there's one that has the FF logo embedded into the green background - you couldn't see it unless you stared at it up close.

They are ashamed to be apart of FF, that is the gist of it. Every other party has their logo in large.

I can only assume that FF is trying to get people elected locally on the work that they do locally, opposed to party politics.

Sully

dlofnep wrote: »

No, it won't affect her. She didn't refuse to condemn it - she felt that it was before her time, and she was only a child when it happened so there is hardly an onus on her to condemn it. The girl was only 15 or 16 when it happened.. It's typical gutter-media trying to bring up old-news in an attempt to attack the character of what is otherwise, a very good candidate.

The reason why it was brought up was because of the "links" SF have/had with the IRA. Any candidate, regardless of age, should agree what was done was wrong and regardless of it happened before or after their time should condem it. This nonsense that "It was before her time, she is perfectly correct not to condem the murder of a guard" is wrong.

I was 13 when Jerry McCabe was shot. Should I have to condemn his killing when it happened at a time when my interests included Nintendo, Sega and girls?

There are alot more important things than someone being called out to condemn a killing that happened way before the said person's time. Should Toireasa have to condemn attacks made by the PIRA in the 60's also?

Should Labour have to condemn the attacks by the Stickies?

Should Fine Gael have to condemn the actions of the Blue Shirts?

It has no bearing on her role in Europe, whatsoever.

I personally believe that by refusing to comment shows a lack of interest or care in the matter. Perhaps even the view that she wont condem the IRA. There was plenty of ways she could have condemed the matter without harping on about how it was before time.

Lots of people will happily comment on what the IRA did, good or bad, before or after their time tbh.

Sully

ryanf1 wrote: »

Al i will say until sully approves is that it was one of the 2 independant candidates you mentioned in your previous post.

Id prefer you didn't, thanks.

dlofnep

Sully wrote: »

The reason why it was brought up was because of the "links" SF have/had with the IRA. Any candidate, regardless of age, should agree what was done was wrong and regardless of it happened before or after their time should condem it. This nonsense that "It was before her time, she is perfectly correct not to condem the murder of a guard" is wrong.

What relevance has it got to do with the current EU elections?

As already stated - it was before her time, and isn't relevant to current SF politics. The IRA is no more, they have disarmed and no longer exist. It is bringing up old news in an attempt to attack the character of Toiréasa.

Should I start questioning FG candidates at my door about the actions of the blue shirts? No. Why? Absolutely no relevance to the current elections, the same way Jerry McCabe's killing has absolutely no relevance to the politics of Toiréasa who was 15 at the time of the killing.

There is no onus on her to condemn it. She did not commit the act. SF as a party did not commit the act. Even the IRA as a unit did not commit the act, it was individual members of the IRA who had no authority or go-ahead from IRA leadership.

Sully wrote: »

I personally believe that by refusing to comment shows a lack of interest or care in the matter. Perhaps even the view that she wont condem the IRA. There was plenty of ways she could have condemed the matter without harping on about how it was before time.

No, she is perfectly right by not engaging in the discussion of something that happened outside the scope of her political career. It's just an attempt to veer real debate off course.

Sully wrote: »

Lots of people will happily comment on what the IRA did, good or bad, before or after their time tbh.

I don't doubt that - but when you bring up a 13 year old case, that has no relevance to current SF politics, or even Toiréasa's career - it does spark a question about the intentions of the media-outlet.

Was Jerry McCabe's death wrong? Absolutely! But does it have any relevance to T.F's career? Absolutely not. They could have asked her a vast wealth of questions regarding her economic views, or social views - but instead wasted time beating a dead horse.

AdMMM

I'm stuck in Dublin for the weekend, how are the exit polls looking?

irish fighter

sorry sully but you should give up going on about the past and leave SF move forward you keep pointing out all the negative points about SF
i can tell you dont like the party but why put our candidates down

fricatus

irish fighter wrote: »

sorry sully but you should give up going on about the past and leave SF move forward you keep pointing out all the negative points about SF
i can tell you dont like the party but why put our candidates down

Oh grow up and stop being such a big baby! I'm sure there are people on this board who weren't even born when the IRA blew up Enniskillen, but I had just turned 14 and I never felt such a sense of disgust at my country for allowing such scum to thrive within our midst.

Fast forward 22 years on and yes, Sinn Féin has come a long way and I believe they will continue to do so. However there are still people in the party who are there from the bad old days, and we'd rather not think about the things they were involved in. And we don't have to go to North Kerry, West Belfast or Derry to find them, since we have Bill Hayes (who was one of a gang who carried out a bank raid in Tramore in which a man was shot dead) right here on our doorstep.

Does a leopard change its spots? Maybe, maybe not, but a party with that sort of pedigree is not a party I'll be voting for any time soon. In politics you will attract criticism. For crying out loud deal with it.

dlofnep

fricatus wrote: »

And we don't have to go to North Kerry, West Belfast or Derry to find them, since we have Bill Hayes (who was one of a gang who carried out a bank raid in Tramore in which a man was shot dead) right here on our doorstep.

Bill had absolutely nothing to do with that shooting. You should probably clarify that before you make such a statement.

I've no problem with people discussing SF's past - but that's exactly what it is, the past. It has been through bad and good. Some warranted, some not. It's time to move on. People were moaning about SF engaged in an armed struggle, now that they have pushed for the PIRA to disarm and disengage - and engaged 100% with the peace process, even supporting policing in the north (which lost it many nationalist votes in the north) - but yet still, people still find something to moan about.

You can't have your cake and eat it. If you want to discuss past, go for it - but don't contradict yourself by telling SF to stay modern.

Woodgate

nkay1985 wrote: »

Interesting predictions there.

You reckon Tom Murphy is going to be the one to lose out in city south, that Dick Roche will unseat Davy Walsh and that the Green will take the new seat?

Thats what he put down anyway;)

Sully

nkay1985 wrote: »

It's just the same line that has been thrown around by the other parties for the whole duration of the campaign and I would think people are tired of hearing it at this stage to be honest.

The only bashing SF got was Mary Lou McDonalds record in the EU. Some media (im not sure if any national media even played a part) put pressure on the girl to condemn the killings because they are more recent, the SF party has had to many close links (might still have) with the IRA, the IRA are only recently dropping arms etc. SF itself offer very little as a party, which is a shame. Its going to be a long time before anybody forgets SF and their connections with the IRA. Pehaps sadly, because it doesnt give room for the party to shine but the more you refuse to move on yourselves the harder it will be. If she just accepted it we could all move on.

Im sure its annoying for her, but jesus, why cant she agree that it was wrong and publicly state it!

dlofnep wrote: »

What relevance has it got to do with the current EU elections?

Its the character thats running people want to get to know, then the party they are running for. So, on that theory, it has a lot to do with it. It applies across all partys, reading the politics forum many candidates wont get much of a vote because of their character and their party.

Besides, isnt she running for a local election also as a backup?

As already stated - it was before her time, and isn't relevant to current SF politics. The IRA is no more, they have disarmed and no longer exist. It is bringing up old news in an attempt to attack the character of Toiréasa.

I think I covered my thoughts on it in this post and in my earlier post.

Should I start questioning FG candidates at my door about the actions of the blue shirts? No. Why? Absolutely no relevance to the current elections, the same way Jerry McCabe's killing has absolutely no relevance to the politics of Toiréasa who was 15 at the time of the killing.

Whole different ball game to be fair.

There is no onus on her to condemn it. She did not commit the act. SF as a party did not commit the act. Even the IRA as a unit did not commit the act, it was individual members of the IRA who had no authority or go-ahead from IRA leadership.

It doesnt matter if its before or after her time. Any election candidate regardless of party should condem such an act. Its history, people know about it and you will find a lot of people even young folk are appaled at what happened. Not codeming it does more damage for SF and makes it harder for people to move on and accept SF as a party of possible change.

SF is a long way off from offering the country change, based on policys alone, the last thing you need holding you back is your links because your all to stubborn to put your hands up and say "Disgraceful, thank god we have moved on from this".

No, she is perfectly right by not engaging in the discussion of something that happened outside the scope of her political career. It's just an attempt to veer real debate off course.

I don't doubt that - but when you bring up a 13 year old case, that has no relevance to current SF politics, or even Toiréasa's career - it does spark a question about the intentions of the media-outlet.

Think I covered this..

Was Jerry McCabe's death wrong? Absolutely! But does it have any relevance to T.F's career? Absolutely not. They could have asked her a vast wealth of questions regarding her economic views, or social views - but instead wasted time beating a dead horse.

Probably covered this also.

irish fighter wrote: »

sorry sully but you should give up going on about the past and leave SF move forward you keep pointing out all the negative points about SF
i can tell you dont like the party but why put our candidates down

Your party is your candidates. I dont mind some of them tbh. I wouldnt like your policies or views on Europe so I wouldnt exactly give you a high mark on a ballot paper for Europe and I dont know the candidate running in Tramore. If I was in Cullianes area, id give him a vote.

dlofnep wrote: »

Bill had absolutely nothing to do with that shooting. You should probably clarify that before you make such a statement.

I'm not 100% sure on this so ill remove that statement.

EDIT: After consultation with the legal admin, the post will be restored.

dlofnep

Sully I'll PM you clarification on the other issue.

wfman

some parts of waterford had a 70% turn out.

nkay1985

Sully wrote: »

Whole different ball game to be fair.

Just to pick up on this one point. Everyone seems to be able to use this exact same statement and it's deemed acceptable. But I'd like to know why it's a whole different ball game? Is it because of the amount of time that has passed? If so, what's that magic number? If not, then why is it acceptable?

wfman wrote: »

some parts of waterford had a 70% turn out.

Is this official?

RTE news had Waterford at around 50% at 9 o'clock. We averaged about 59% last time out so I'd like to see it up at that again.

nkay1985

fricatus wrote: »

And we don't have to go to North Kerry, West Belfast or Derry to find them, since we have Bill Hayes (who was one of a gang who carried out a bank raid in Tramore in which a man was shot dead) right here on our doorstep.

Sorry but I need to ensure you've your facts straight here.

Bill Hayes was the second getaway driver for the bank robbery in Tramore where unfortunately a man was shot dead. He was about five miles away from the incident so I don't think you can say that he "was one of a gang who carried out a bank raid in Tramore in which a man was shot dead". This is misleading.

Sully

RTE were only using Ballybeg for their turnout.

"Limerick and Waterford cities are both reporting turnout at around 50%," - 4hrs ago, RTEs Election Twitter.

longshanks

nkay1985 wrote: »

Sorry but I need to ensure you've your facts straight here.

Bill Hayes was the second getaway driver for the bank robbery in Tramore where unfortunately a man was shot dead. He was about five miles away from the incident so I don't think you can say that he "was one of a gang who carried out a bank raid in Tramore in which a man was shot dead". This is misleading.

are you for real? read back over it and then cop yourself on. you say he was second getaway driver, so he was part of the crew who planned and carried out this. how far he parked his getaway car away is irrelevant. you just lost any credibility you thought you had with that last wonderful statement

jimbojazz

I could never bring myself to vote sinn fein...never. Was listening to Mary Lou Mcdonald on the radio the other day and all I can say is what a nasty piece of work she is.

Gael23

I will never vote sinn fein but I was watching her on questions and answers a few weeks back and was impressed.

Sully

wfman wrote: »

hey the sheikh could be a dark horse!

With 27 votes on the first count, that was some dark horse! He is effectively eliminated alongside the FF candidate Elaine Walsh.

Guess Barrack Obama for Waterford never had the chance to shine..

dlofnep

longshanks wrote: »

are you for real? read back over it and then cop yourself on. you say he was second getaway driver, so he was part of the crew who planned and carried out this. how far he parked his getaway car away is irrelevant. you just lost any credibility you thought you had with that last wonderful statement

Incorrect. He was a secondary getaway driver. That's the extent of it. No involvement in the shooting. No involvement in the planning process. Watch some more movies and see the role of a getaway driver. They aren't far off the mark.

Nothing to do with credibility - More to do with a balanced view of the events of that tragic day. The usual spin doctors add their own bits & bobs to it. He expressed extreme regret, but he had nothing to do with the shooting. I think it's important that I highlight this fact.

fricatus

dlofnep wrote: »

Incorrect. He was a secondary getaway driver. That's the extent of it. No involvement in the shooting. No involvement in the planning process. Watch some more movies and see the role of a getaway driver. They aren't far off the mark.

Nothing to do with credibility - More to do with a balanced view of the events of that tragic day. The usual spin doctors add their own bits & bobs to it. He expressed extreme regret, but he had nothing to do with the shooting. I think it's important that I highlight this fact.

Just for clarity, I checked the following article before I wrote my post last night: http://archives.tcm.ie/waterfordnews/2008/10/03/story29419.asp