Local & European Elections 2009 - Part Two ** New Poll **

Stan Nangle

Sully wrote: »

Bare in mind its unlikely the Greens will be in government much longer which isn't something worth considering when voting Green (in terms of the advantages).

The issue on June 5th is about who you want making the decisions on the Councils until 2014.

Two years ago 46% of people in Waterford voted Fianna Fáil. Things change, people vote different ways.

But the Councillors we elect on June 5th will be there until 2014, just like the TDs elected in 2007 will be there until 2012.

The old saying "Marry in haste, repent at leisure" applies.

God knows, they probably wont get in with FG/Labour anyway. We went over some of this already in the County debate and John referred onto other departments which gave money out for roads etc. who were not the green party.

Why wouldn't the Greens get in with FG/Lab? When I see the rate at which they are adopting Green policies why would they be opposed to having the Greens in Government - even if it is only so that there is at least one experienced Minister in the new administration.

Also, Greens credibility and promises are near worthless as they have backtracked on a lot of their "promises".

The Greens did not "backtrack" on any promises. Some of the policies needed major amounts of money, but the collapse of the economy has meant that there is no money available at the moment.

Lots of other policies are being implemented though - including €100m in grants to insulate homes. This is a critical issue because of the major price rises in oil and gas that are coming in the next few years. If we don't get this done, and fast, people will freeze to death.

Hence, opinion polls are showing a drop in support with the Greens rushing to push in their policies and hold the current government to ransom. I thought candidates wanted these elections to be about local issues and not what there party does/can do?

The drop in that poll was more related to Bill Cullen's idiotic rant on the Late Late Show than to anything else.

Greens are a weak minority under FFs thumb. It seems even local governments are, I guess sadly, ignoring what John has said in regards to land zoning.

Rubbish!

Greens have 6 seats out of 166. They have more influence over how the Country is run than Labour or Fine Gael. Not only that, but we see FG and Labour adopting Green Policies as their own every week.

We must be doing something right.


The issue of the rezonings is a big one, but the Laws are there and if the FF/FG/Lab Councillors prefer to look after their friends and donors, then the Minister will put them back in their box.

It is that carry on that has the Country in the state it's in.

We need a change.

Sully

Stan Nangle wrote: »

The issue on June 5th is about who you want making the decisions on the Councils until 2014.

Indeed but it was suggested by another candidate that a vote for a green party candidate is a good thing since the Greens are in government and she can contact John Gormley. So if thats the mindset a candidate has, ill happily discuss that mindset also.

Two years ago 46% of people in Waterford voted Fianna Fáil. Things change, people vote different ways.

But the Councillors we elect on June 5th will be there until 2014, just like the TDs elected in 2007 will be there until 2012.

The old saying "Marry in haste, repent at leisure" applies.

The current government is very unstable. The Greens are clearly re-thinking, neither party are agreeing with each other lately, FF are doing U-Turns on ANOTHER budget (this time the Christmas bonuses), backbenchers are sending out clear signals, etc. 2012? If things stabilise, but if they continue as they are - we will likely to see an election before that date.

You have Cowen saying that he was "about" to fix the property bubble issue but the economy went down and that things are not that bad afterall! Madness.

Why wouldn't the Greens get in with FG/Lab? When I see the rate at which they are adopting Green policies why would they be opposed to having the Greens in Government - even if it is only so that there is at least one experienced Minister in the new administration.

FG have ruled it out, god knows what Labour will do. Obviously its possible FG may turn to Greens for support eventually, and I personally would welcome them, but with your poll ratings as they are and the general unhappy feeling towards both the Greens and FF - it may not be an advisable thing.

The Greens did not "backtrack" on any promises. Some of the policies needed major amounts of money, but the collapse of the economy has meant that there is no money available at the moment.

The economy excuse is great!

Lots of other policies are being implemented though - including €100m in grants to insulate homes. This is a critical issue because of the major price rises in oil and gas that are coming in the next few years. If we don't get this done, and fast, people will freeze to death.

I'm not saying the Greens are doing nothing, but I don't think they are doing as much as planned (regardless of economy) and were supporting the government in everything until recently. Overall, as many Green supporters and members would agree, they are not doing the best. Dan Boyle has pretty much admitted that things need re-thinking. Great to see it took a drop in the opinion poll for them to realise what people have been saying for a long time.

The drop in that poll was more related to Bill Cullen's idiotic rant on the Late Late Show than to anything else.

Honestly Stan, do you really think that Bill Cullens comment on the Late Late made the difference?!

Rubbish!

Greens have 6 seats out of 166. They have more influence over how the Country is run than Labour or Fine Gael. Not only that, but we see FG and Labour adopting Green Policies as their own every week.

We must be doing something right.

Its not rubbish. Your own party admits it. The "influence" you speak off is very little, to be fair. You have been under FFs thumb since going in and were given small room to work in and have produced some green policies. Sadly, perhaps, the press couldn't careless. Either that or your PR machine is broken.

You keep harping on about how others are doing Green policies - most people admit that they are needed, but its how they are implemented. Thats got little do with your party or how its in government.

The issue of the rezonings is a big one, but the Laws are there and if the FF/FG/Lab Councillors prefer to look after their friends and donors, then the Minister will put them back in their box.

It is that carry on that has the Country in the state it's in.

We need a change.

Not doing a great job so far. Its only been since the last election FG and Labour had a lot of power in local government - they cant be the major blame for whats gone wrong in our planning system. There are some questionable decisions but im not sure this corruption you imply is the cause - that's been a major FF issue for a very long time.

I agree we need a change though. Which is why people should vote out FF and vote in others. Your party seems to agree - by not suggesting people vote for FF in the locals

AdMMM

Stan Nangle wrote: »

if we don't get this done, and fast, people will freeze to death.

Sorry, what?! Are you fresh out of some propaganda course in some Russian college?

M.RaftisKennedy

Sully wrote: »

Indeed but it was suggested by another candidate that a vote for a green party candidate is a good thing since the Greens are in government and she can contact John Gormley. So if thats the mindset a candidate has, ill happily discuss that mindset also.



Please do not misquote me Sully I said and I Quote"Our leader John Gormley is head of Local Government, he allocates the funds to City and Co.Councils around the country, it would be in Waterford City's best interest to vote to have a green councillor ,because, on election, Waterford City Council would then have direct contact with that department and Waterford City would have a voice. I have heard we are being ignored by Dublin, our voice is not heard, well now is the perfect opportunity for our voice to be heard we will have direct contact with that department on election".

I did not at any time say I WOULD CONTACT JOHN GORMLEY, please re read the above quote and show me where you see in it that I would contact John Gormley Sully?

Anyway shall go and prepare dinner and leave you guys to argue among yourselves!!!!


Maria

Sully

M.RaftisKennedy wrote: »

If elected as a councillor I know my job will be more than just being on the council changing speeding limits, I know I will become a counsellor as well and act as an advocate for people who find themselves in vunerable situations who haven't the strength at that given time to help themselves, I will be a stepping stone for them and I will get things done. I would also like to point out to people that while our leader John Gormley is head of Local Government, he allocates the funds to City and Co.Councils around the country, it would be in Waterford City's best interest to vote to have a green councillor ,because, on election, Waterford City Council would then have direct contact with that department and Waterford City would have a voice. I have heard we are being ignored by Dublin, our voice is not heard, well now is the perfect opportunity for our voice to be heard we will have direct contact with that department on election.

Your the only green councillor running for Waterford City, are you not? I thought the second candidate dropped out. You implied that if a green councillor (ie yourself) was elected to the city council, they would have direct contact with John Gormley and Waterford would then have a voice. Therefore, if nobody voted Green, they would not have a voice in Dublin and have no contact with John. Perhaps thats not what you meant, but it looked that way to me.

Gael23

AdMMM wrote: »

Suppose that's a bit more civilised compared to the candidate being chased out of Grantstown Village with a hurley!

I have just spoken to someone who is hardcore Fianna Fail and assures that these are "isolated incidents". Also heard of one being quite viciously verbally abused.

Stan Nangle

Sully wrote: »

Your the only green councillor running for Waterford City, are you not? I thought the second candidate dropped out. You implied that if a green councillor (ie yourself) was elected to the city council, they would have direct contact with John Gormley and Waterford would then have a voice. Therefore, if nobody voted Green, they would not have a voice in Dublin and have no contact with John. Perhaps thats not what you meant, but it looked that way to me.

Go easy on the spinning there Sully, you'll get dizzy. :eek:

Stan Nangle

AdMMM wrote: »

Sorry, what?! Are you fresh out of some propaganda course in some Russian college?

Eh, No!

I am referring to the International Energy Agency report in November which stated that Oil Production is about to start declining at a rate of between 6% and 9% per annum.

And a report on comments made by a Russian Economic Minister who said three yers ago that they do not expect to be exporting gas much after 2010 because internal demand will be equal to the available supply.

Combine those two facts with the following and make your own mind up.

Fuel poverty in Ireland 'shocking', says WHO

Earlier this week, Fine Gael called on the Taoiseach to introduce measures in the forthcoming budget to alleviate fuel poverty.

The Society of St Vincent de Paul has also expressed concern over rising prices, while the Institute of Public Health has warned that failure to tackle growing rates of fuel poverty could lead to an increase in the number of excess winter deaths in Ireland.

According to a report from Sustainable Energy Ireland, which was published in June, more than 145,000 households here are experiencing fuel poverty, in which more than 10 per cent of their disposable income is spent on energy, the report finds.

The lowest earners spend an average 13 per cent on energy, compared with 1.7 per cent for high earners.

This is a huge problem, and needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency.

wfman

ryanf1 wrote: »

I have just spoken to someone who is hardcore Fianna Fail and assures that these are "isolated incidents". Also heard of one being quite viciously verbally abused.

"isolated incidents"and you believe him!

Gael23

wfman wrote: »

"isolated incidents"and you believe him!

Of course I dont, all it takes is to read through the posts here and find thats not true. Typical of FF to deny whats happening though.

nkay1985

Stan Nangle wrote: »

Go easy on the spinning there Sully, you'll get dizzy. :eek:

I'm sorry Stan but a comment like that is of no benefit to anyone. Sully has made a very reasonable analysis of Maria's post and I fail to see where it's been pointed out that he was wrong. Then you come in with a comment like that to try to deflect attention from the matter at hand, covering it up as some sort of cheeky dig by using a smiley. Not good.

Stan Nangle

nkay1985 wrote: »

I'm sorry Stan but a comment like that is of no benefit to anyone. Sully has made a very reasonable analysis of Maria's post and I fail to see where it's been pointed out that he was wrong. Then you come in with a comment like that to try to deflect attention from the matter at hand, covering it up as some sort of cheeky dig by using a smiley. Not good.

It wasn't a reasonable analysis, it sought to misrepresent the point she was making.

Therefore, if nobody voted Green, they would not have a voice in Dublin and have no contact with John. Perhaps thats not what you meant, but it looked that way to me.

I'm not ascribing malice, but he could have phrased the point better.


There is no doubt that having a direct line of communication to any decision maker is more effective/efficient than having to use formal channels, no matter what organisation you are in, political or otherwise.

nkay1985

Stan Nangle wrote: »

It wasn't a reasonable analysis, it sought to misrepresent the point she was making.


I'm not ascribing malice, but he could have phrased the point better.

I don't think so. I think that Sully genuinely took up her comment in that way (that's how I took it too) and never sought to misrepresent her point. And if that's what you thought, I think the post I'm replying to would have been a better way to put it that the original post.

Stan Nangle wrote: »

There is no doubt that having a direct line of communication to any decision maker is more effective/efficient than having to use formal channels, no matter what organisation you are in, political or otherwise.

I must be missing something here.

Are you saying that formal channels are not a direct line of communication? Or advocating that informal channels should and would be used by Green party members if elected?

Sully

Stan Nangle wrote: »

It wasn't a reasonable analysis, it sought to misrepresent the point she was making.

Nope. For the most part, I fully respect the Greens and nearly all candidates running in an election. If I see something that's wrong or I disagree with, ill point it out. I felt that Maria's post was clear that a vote for the greens in Waterford is the only way (or at least the best) you will get communication with John Gormley and get the Waterford voice heard which she claimed is being ignored (Martin Cullen, FF, is known to have actually worked for Waterford as a minister. Somewhat anyway).

I'm not ascribing malice, but he could have phrased the point better.

I fail to see how that can be picked up in any other way - because she is the only Green party candidate for Waterford. Hence, a vote for her (GP) would be a direct line of communication with John. She clearly pointed this out and further went onto say, in a way to backup what she said, that Waterford is being ignored (and hence, vote Green to fix this).

I do wonder does she realise what she said, because she quoted herself and put it in bold saying I misread it - even though I didn't (and clearly, another user didn't either).

There is no doubt that having a direct line of communication to any decision maker is more effective/efficient than having to use formal channels, no matter what organisation you are in, political or otherwise.

You do realise that pretty much confirms what Maria said, and what I pointed out? The very same thing both of you are now trying to deny?

merlante

Sully wrote: »

I fail to see how that can be picked up in any other way - because she is the only Green party candidate for Waterford. Hence, a vote for her (GP) would be a direct line of communication with John. She clearly pointed this out and further went onto say, in a way to backup what she said, that Waterford is being ignored (and hence, vote Green to fix this).

I think politicians like to hint that certain things will happen or will not happen if they get elected, nod nod wink wink. Say no more, you know yourself, keep it under your hat, etc.

However, with an online forum full of young people who despise that way of doing things, and who want clear and direct statements that can be fully backed up and explained, politicians are going to find a hostile environment to pedal their wares.

old gregg

forgive the slightly off-topic question here but I was out and around over the weekend and thinking about the elections and suddenly remembered the last election and one of the candidates had suggested that if he was elected that he'd bring Ryanair back to Waterford. Anyone remember who that was/is?

no big deal and not relevant to the current election but it's been bugging me ever since ... sort of like a political earworm if ya know what I mean.

Grazie.

merlante

old gregg wrote: »

forgive the slightly off-topic question here but I was out and around over the weekend and thinking about the elections and suddenly remembered the last election and one of the candidates had suggested that if he was elected that he'd bring Ryanair back to Waterford. Anyone remember who that was/is?

no big deal and not relevant to the current election but it's been bugging me ever since ... sort of like a political earworm if ya know what I mean.

Grazie.

This is a typical example of the sort of cretinous promises that small minded politicians wheel out to trick and seduce small minded voters.

It would be amusing to have a sticky thread with a ranking of the most ridiculous election promise.

nutri grain

old gregg wrote: »

forgive the slightly off-topic question here but I was out and around over the weekend and thinking about the elections and suddenly remembered the last election and one of the candidates had suggested that if he was elected that he'd bring Ryanair back to Waterford. Anyone remember who that was/is?

.

I have a vague recollection of this but wonder was it someone in the general election cos it doesn't seem like it was five years ago.

old gregg

not wishing to blame anyone in the wrong but my clouded guess is that it might have been the FG chap whose posters have him standing in front of a forest scene .. a setting so perfect that you'd vote for him just to join him and his merry men in that magical place

AdMMM

merlante wrote: »

This is a typical example of the sort of cretinous promises that small minded politicians wheel out to trick and seduce small minded voters.

It would be amusing to have a sticky thread with a ranking of the most ridiculous election promise.

Funny you should mention that, I just finished reading Joe Tobin's literature. He's aiming for a teacher:pupil ratio of 24:1. That's a lot of teachers, Joe!

(I know that he means 1:24, but the technically correct interpretation would be 24:1)

merlante

AdMMM wrote: »

Funny you should mention that, I just finished reading Joe Tobin's literature. He's aiming for a teacher:pupil ratio of 24:1. That's a lot of teachers, Joe!

(I know that he means 1:24, but the technically correct interpretation would be 24:1)

Does he realise he's running for the local council and not the minister for education?

Reminds me of class elections we had in 4th class in primary school where a candidate promised less homework if he was elected. (Not even an elected Joe Tobin could fulfill that promise.)

I can never figure out whether to blame the politicians or the electorate for the overblown promises and the lies.

Gulamugas

old gregg wrote: »

not wishing to blame anyone in the wrong but my clouded guess is that it might have been the FG chap whose posters have him standing in front of a forest scene .. a setting so perfect that you'd vote for him just to join him and his merry men in that magical place

I think you are right. It was that chap darcy. He said that the runway was large enough to take the big planes, even though those on the board of the airport disagreed if I remember correctly.

Sully

Gulamugas wrote: »

I think you are right. It was that chap darcy. He said that the runway was large enough to take the big planes, even though those on the board of the airport disagreed if I remember correctly.

Cant find anything on this. Probably wasn't picked up by the press. I thought his posters were clouds in the background? There the old FG election posters, he re-used them. (The green candidates must be delighted!)

nkay1985

Sully wrote: »

Cant find anything on this. Probably wasn't picked up by the press. I thought his posters were clouds in the background? There the old FG election posters, he re-used them. (The green candidates must be delighted!)

Yeah, D'arcy has clouds in the background. Davy Daniels has a picture of the park, maybe that's what the poster was confusing it with.

And speaking of Green candidates, not said much today...

AdMMM

There's a forest below the clouds though in Jim's posters.

old gregg

nkay1985 wrote: »

Yeah, D'arcy has clouds in the background. Davy Daniels has a picture of the park, maybe that's what the poster was confusing it with.

And speaking of Green candidates, not said much today...

I know D'arcy has clouds .... but if you look down you'll notice a magical forest in the distance ... I jest not.

Yea, I think it probably was Mr. D'arcy who was going to bring us cheap flights

old gregg

AdMMM wrote: »

There's a forest below the clouds though in Jim's posters.

exactly ... a place of refuge

deisemum

Has anyone seen the "poster" at the Tesco roundabout on the outer ring road?

It's a home-made job having a pop at McCant, about him bringing unemployment to Waterford, cannot remember the exact words but it gave his address, phone number and email address.

Sully

deisemum wrote: »

Has anyone seen the "poster" at the Tesco roundabout on the outer ring road?

It's a home-made job having a pop at McCant, about him bringing unemployment to Waterford, cannot remember the exact words but it gave his address, phone number and email address.

Was gone tonight anyway. Seen something similar around the time of the all ireland final.

Gulamugas

He must be some man for one man!