Motorway Redesignation sparks huge complaints

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

How is the Athlone bypass motorway spec.

Explain, link to spec by link to spec, how it isn't?

mysterious wrote: »

Why wasn't it built as a motorway in the first place if it's a motorway.

Quite likely local gombeen politics. Rather like your agri vehicle argument.

By the way, I pass an agri vehicle on the M4 recently. It was doing significantly above the motorway minimum speed limit. Reclassification only affects those driving old and slow argi vehicles in the first place.

?Cee?view

I've not had a look at this thread in a while, and on returning to it, find it disappointing that it's been hijacked by someone who clearly combines a lack of intelligence with an appalling standard of grammatical and writing skills. The only mystery about "Mysterious" is why someone who is unwilling to debate and can't write enters into a debate which requires writing skills and the ability to debate.

Well said spacetweek. Your summary makes absolute sense.

All others, can I suggest that you ignore the "arguments" of Mysterious? He is a waste of your collective energy.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

Explain, link to spec by link to spec, how it isn't?



Quite likely local gombeen politics. Rather like your agri vehicle argument.

By the way, I pass an agri vehicle on the M4 recently. It was doing significantly above the motorway minimum speed limit. Reclassification only affects those driving old and slow argi vehicles in the first place.

Right then, so the Athlone bypass is ok as it is then?

mysterious

churchview wrote: »

I've not had a look at this thread in a while, and on returning to it, find it disappointing that it's been hijacked by someone who clearly combines a lack of intelligence with an appalling standard of grammatical and writing skills. The only mystery about "Mysterious" is why someone who is unwilling to debate and can't write enters into a debate which requires writing skills and the ability to debate.

Well said spacetweek. Your summary makes absolute sense.

All others, can I suggest that you ignore the "arguments" of Mysterious? He is a waste of your collective energy.

Calling someone who lacks in intellegence. is very insulting. and nothing but an insult. I'm going to ignore the rest of that post.

That was uncalled for. If you claim to call this a test of knowledge, then why don't you test your intellegence on this thread, rather than attacking me personally.

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

Right then, so the Athlone bypass is ok as it is then?

When dangerous or dangerously slow traffic is removed from it and it is resurfaced and re-signed planed; yes.

I notice you've failed to say whats actually wrong with it.

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

Calling someone who lacks in intellegence. is very insulting. and nothing but an insult. I'm going to ignore the rest of that post.

That was uncalled for. If you claim to call this a test of knowledge, then why don't you test your intellegence on this thread, rather than attacking me personally.

Care to cast your eyes to the personal attacks you've made yourself on this thread, and others, in the past few days?

Mr Kettle, I'd like to introduce Mr Pot.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

Care to cast your eyes to the personal attacks you've made yourself on this thread, and others, in the past few days?

Mr Kettle, I'd like to introduce Mr Pot.

Point them out.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

When dangerous or dangerously slow traffic is removed from it and it is resurfaced and re-signed planed; yes.

I notice you've failed to say whats actually wrong with it.

So I see. Just for the sake of it been blue? It's funny how you use selective reasoning here. You say we can't have tractors on it. Then you say sure if tractors can go fast it's ok, like the M4. Or sure it's ok been a motorway very few tractors would use it.

Then you say it's very very dangerous to have tractors on it.


All points are suggesting to me, that regardless of the point or the topic on hand, people just want blue signs.

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

Point them out.

I refer you to posts 133 and 151 for a starter.

mysterious wrote: »

So I see. Just for the sake of it been blue? It's funny how you use selective reasoning here. You say we can't have tractors on it. Then you say sure if tractors can go fast it's ok, like the M4. Or sure it's ok been a motorway very few tractors would use it.

Then you say it's very very dangerous to have tractors on it.


All points are suggesting to me, that regardless of the point or the topic on hand, people just want blue signs.

I haven't used selective reasoning at all. Its dangerous to have traffic travelling at less than the motorway minimum speed limit on a clear motorway - the majority of vehicles incapable of doing this limit which are not otherwise specifically banned are agricultural vehicles.

My desire to have it reclassified has nothing to do with blue signs - about the only attack vector you appear to have left after having had your claims about specifications and it being a relief road debunked. It has to do with safety. A D2 directly linking two sections of motorway is no place for a learner to wobble off a slip road and in to the outside lane, nor is somewhere for someone to come around a bend and find a tractor and trailer doing 35km/h half in, half out of the hard shoulder.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

I refer you to posts 133 and 151 for a starter.




I haven't used selective reasoning at all. Its dangerous to have traffic travelling at less than the motorway minimum speed limit on a clear motorway - the majority of vehicles incapable of doing this limit which are not otherwise specifically banned are agricultural vehicles.

My desire to have it reclassified has nothing to do with blue signs - about the only attack vector you appear to have left after having had your claims about specifications and it being a relief road debunked. It has to do with safety. A D2 directly linking two sections of motorway is no place for a learner to wobble off a slip road and in to the outside lane, nor is somewhere for someone to come around a bend and find a tractor and trailer doing 35km/h half in, half out of the hard shoulder.

Well finally I see logic, that we can actually think beyond the idea of a blue road desire. I commend you on that. Reclassification purely for design and safety purposes, is a fair point.

But reclassification for a blue road looking beautiful for road fanatics, really didn't go down well with me at all. There is no leniancy in just saying I want my blue road, and **** everyone else that drives it.

That attitude was protrayed here, and it really ticked me off to be quite honest. So MYOB at least you have balance to the points given on this thread.

133 was not out of line.
151 is on this page, and I was attacked by Spacetweek.

So no starters.:) So you have to point out where I was insulting and personally attacking people on this thread. I'm the first to admit I attack the post and the first to speak up on anything. But your very wrong now with that accusation.

But thats ok. You keep going with this, I won't, cus I don't need to.

veryangryman

Sorry guys but i agree with Mysterious on this one. Making this road a Motorway is a joke and thankfully, the powers that be will ensure that the joke doesn't become a reality.

Its under spec at the Roscommon Exit and has exits too close to one another.

Dont even bother mentioning the M50 saying "Oh their exits are close together etc with windy turns etc". Its a fricking URBAN OUTER RING MOTORWAY. Different planet. By your logic, why dont they reclassify the N4 from Leixlip to M50 junction?

The only reason the M50 is defined as a Motorway is because it is so congested that it cannot fit the extra volumes that L-drivers, Tractors etc would add. Its all about practicality.

Athlone Bypass has plenty of room for all and sundry to use - if you see a slow moving tractor, you can overtake him with gusto by moving to the right hand lane. Very rare to have a dangerous situation on this road if you keep to the speed limits

L1011

veryangryman wrote: »

Sorry guys but i agree with Mysterious on this one. Making this road a Motorway is a joke and thankfully, the powers that be will ensure that the joke doesn't become a reality.

I have a feeling you're going to be rather disappointed when the SIs come out.

veryangryman wrote: »

By your logic, why dont they reclassify the N4 from Leixlip to M50 junction?

Because it has bus stops, a bus lane, HOUSES, a petrol station and all other sorts of loveliness on it.

veryangryman wrote: »

The only reason the M50 is defined as a Motorway is because it is so congested that it cannot fit the extra volumes that L-drivers, Tractors etc would add. Its all about practicality.

It was defined as a motorway from day one when it was practically empty.

veryangryman wrote: »

Athlone Bypass has plenty of room for all and sundry to use - if you see a slow moving tractor, you can overtake him with gusto by moving to the right hand lane. Very rare to have a dangerous situation on this road if you keep to the speed limits

Except when you can't get out of Lane 1 due to the woeful standard of Irish driving on D2 roads. AADT is about 30,000 on the Athlone bypass anyway, this is not "plenty of room" when compared to the design capacity of a D2AP; and this figure will only grow due to the induced traffic effect that higher quality roads (e.g. the M6 each end of it) bring.

The Word Is Bor

veryangryman wrote: »

The only reason the M50 is defined as a Motorway is because it is so congested that it cannot fit the extra volumes that L-drivers, Tractors etc would add. Its all about practicality.

In the quite words of the Virgin Mary. "come again"?

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

.




It was defined as a motorway from day one when it was practically empty.

It is up to motorway spec. It is designed to 120kmh. Bar on curve at Scholarstown, that has a 100kmh in place. it was built as an urban motorway.

Athlone bypass isn't the M50, stop making silly inane off topic comparisons There is no comparison.

Athlone bypass has 4 interchanges all within a few Km.

Except when you can't get out of Lane 1 due to the woeful standard of Irish driving on D2 roads. AADT is about 30,000 on the Athlone bypass anyway, this is not "plenty of room" when compared to the design capacity of a D2AP; and this figure will only grow due to the induced traffic effect that higher quality roads (e.g. the M6 each end of it) bring.

Don't exaggerate, the traffic figures are well below 30,000. It's about 25,000 max. Most of this is local traffic using the Shannon bridge.

Get over the tractor argument.

The Athlone bypass is not a safety issue.

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

Don't exaggerate, the traffic figures are well below 30,000. It's about 25,000 max. Most of this is local traffic using the Shannon bridge.

Care to tell the NRAs computerised traffic counts they're exaggerating?

http://www.nra.ie/NetworkManagement/TrafficCounts/TrafficCounterData/html/N06-16.htm

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

Care to tell the NRAs computerised traffic counts they're exaggerating?

http://www.nra.ie/NetworkManagement/TrafficCounts/TrafficCounterData/html/N06-16.htm

Well its just under 30.000 and has grown considerably since the The new N6 openings.

What is your point though. It can't pass out a tractor.

GIVE ME A BREAK. I really am suspicious, that the only reason people want this reclassified because they want it BLUE.

It's just out of this world. They can't pass out a tractor. This is like saying I can't go into the kitchen the chair is in my way.

Oh god.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

L1011

I get the feeling you don't drive often in Ireland...

The standard way Irish people drive on a D2 or D3 road is to get in to lane 2 as quickly as possible, and sit there. You merge on behind a vehicle doing 35km/h in lane 1 when its busy and you are, quite literally, trapped. You will never get up to speed to merge in to lane 2.

Anyway, you accept the traffic has grown since the Kilbeggan scheme opened, its going to grow further once the Ballinasloe scheme opens. We could easily have 35,000 in a short while.

mysterious

Still doesn't mean it should be blue....

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

Still doesn't mean it should be blue....

It means it damn well needs restrictions on slow moving vehicles from entering it. This isn't the UK, we don't have non-motorway "special roads", but even if we did - what would be the point of introducing restrictions on slow moving vehicles without complete redesignation?

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

It means it damn well needs restrictions on slow moving vehicles from entering it. This isn't the UK, we don't have non-motorway "special roads", but even if we did - what would be the point of introducing restrictions on slow moving vehicles without complete redesignation?

Oh I see, So whats the lowest speed limit for vehicles on motorway and Dc.

So it's not learners now? It's tractors now a problem:D

God I think if you all look back over this entire thread, it would appear obvious, that almost anything is used as an excuse to make this section motorway.

Bear in mind the speed limit is 100KMH. so should we ban vehicles going over 110kmh? Tractors now a problem, when it was never an issue on this road. Even with the reclassification I fail to see what difference it's going to make.

This is simply the problem.

"if we can get this reclassified, maybe we might get it to be a motorway lots of sniggering followed"

:rolleyes:

G_R

veryangryman wrote: »

The only reason the M50 is defined as a Motorway is because it is so congested that it cannot fit the extra volumes that L-drivers, Tractors etc would add. Its all about practicality.

where the hell did u get that idea from. the M50 is classified 'M' because it was built as Dublins outer ring motorway. I was classified a motorway from the begining when theyre was plenty of room for extra cars. And it was also (im guessing, im not sure) prob classified motoway so as to stop in appropriate developments being built off the side of it, not 2 stop tractors using it. Maybe u havent niticed but Dublin city is hardly full of farms now is it?

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

Oh I see, So whats the lowest speed limit for vehicles on motorway and Dc.

On motorways its 50km/h. Too low in my opinion, but thats what it is. On DCs there isn't any.

mysterious wrote: »

So it's not learners now? It's tractors now a problem:D

Learners are still an issue.

mysterious wrote: »

God I think if you all look back over this entire thread, it would appear obvious, that almost anything is used as an excuse to make this section motorway.

And only one thing is used as an argument against any more, some pathetic line about "blue roads". Which, strangely, was never raised by any of those who are pro redesignation - only you.

mysterious wrote: »

Bear in mind the speed limit is 100KMH. so should we ban vehicles going over 110kmh? Tractors now a problem, when it was never an issue on this road. Even with the reclassification I fail to see what difference it's going to make.

The speed limit is 100km/h meaning that vehicles doing 110km/h or over are ALREADY banned. Albeit not enforced.

mysterious wrote: »

This is simply the problem.

"if we can get this reclassified, maybe we might get it to be a motorway lots of sniggering followed"

:rolleyes:

Sorry, I cannot for the life of me figure out what you mean by this. I only read English, Irish and a bit of Slovak...

G_R

i havent read over the whole tread jus a couple of pages so apologies if im repeatin anything.

I honestly don't see the point in having a HQDC if there is an alternative route. If there is no alternative route then leave it as an N road but even in saying this technically L drivers shouldnt be driving on their own anyway so they could just as easily switch seats with the fully licensed person who is in the passenger seat for the part of the journey that is a motorway. And also if an L driver feels they can drive on a HQDC (which for all intents and purposes is a motorway in everything but name and restrictions) then what is stopping them taking and passing a test? The waiting times arent that long.

Everyone accepts that Motorways are by far the safest class of road we have, and that is because slow vehichles, pedestrians, L drivers, animals and whatever else the sign says are banned from the road and access is controlled. So why would you want to keep a stretch of road un-restricted? And im afraid that as far as im concerned (not that what concerns me really matters), 'so L drivers and tractors can use them' doesnt quite cut it as a valid excuse for not classifiying them M.

And to be honest i think that the athlone bypass (i hold my hands up and say i havent driven it) should be classified M because as far as im concerned that will make the road safer. How can anyone possibly argue that allowing all the things that i mentioned above, which are banned on motorways, is better off. And as i said before 'so farmers can use it' is not a valid excuse. They survived perfectly well before the bypass was built and if they have to drive a km or 2 out the way to get to their other fields well then so be it, given all the benefits a M-Way has i think it a pretty small price to pay. And jus back to the Athlone Bypass for a sec, if people are comcerned about the sightlines not being suitable for 120km/h well then im sure the Co. Co. can impose a 100km/h jus like they have done on the M50 jus after the redcow going north.

(jesus that is the longest post io have ever written ha)

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

On motorways its 50km/h. Too low in my opinion, but thats what it is. On DCs there isn't any.

So whats the safety issue here with lets say a hundred tractors a day use the bypass going about 70kmh, They are not breaking the law here. So when is it a safety issue with this road, since you can't really do enormous speed anyhow.

Learners are still an issue.

How come it wasn't an issue before and only now.

And only one thing is used as an argument against any more, some pathetic line about "blue roads". Which, strangely, was never raised by any of those who are pro redesignation - only you.

The only thing I'm not doing is arguing. I'm interested to know why you are so strongly about having this a motorway;)

The speed limit is 100km/h meaning that vehicles doing 110km/h or over are ALREADY banned. Albeit not enforced.

Of course.

Sorry, I cannot for the life of me figure out what you mean by this. I only read English, Irish and a bit of Slovak...

Well In that case you might not fully understand english, but just to tell you in advanced I used english.

I speak a little french sometimes, but I'm currently speaking in English at the minute.:D

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

So whats the safety issue here with lets say a hundred tractors a day use the bypass going about 70kmh, They are not breaking the law here. So when is it a safety issue with this road, since you can't really do enormous speed anyhow.

Tractors doing 70km/h are not a problem. Tractors (and, well, any vehicles) doing 35km/h or so ARE a problem - and these do use the bypass at present. Tractors doing 70km/h will not be affected and are at best a strawman in the argument

mysterious wrote: »

How come it wasn't an issue before and only now.

Because the roads status has increased, as it will be a direct link between two motorways. Usage will invariable increase.

mysterious wrote: »

The only thing I'm not doing is arguing. I'm interested to know why you are so strongly about having this a motorway;)

Safety as the main priority - there WILL be unnecessary deaths and RTAs if the road is left unrestricted. Preventing the quality of the road degrading further by private accesses being added is another - as is preventing a Mahon Point situation when the economy picks up.

mysterious wrote: »

Well In that case you might not fully understand english, but just to tell you in advanced I used english.

It didn't parse in the slightest, though.

L1011

dannym08 wrote: »

(i hold my hands up and say i havent driven it)

I can say I drive it far too often for my own good...

mysterious

dannym08 wrote: »

And to be honest i think that the athlone bypass (i hold my hands up and say i havent driven it) should be classified M because as far as im concerned that will make the road safer. How can anyone possibly argue that allowing all the things that i mentioned above, which are banned on motorways, is better off. And as i said before 'so farmers can use it' is not a valid excuse. They survived perfectly well before the bypass was built and if they have to drive a km or 2 out the way to get to their other fields well then so be it, given all the benefits a M-Way has i think it a pretty small price to pay.

What a load of crap.

Surviving perfectly before the bypass? what on earth are you on about, everyone survived before the bypass, it's was never an issue about surviving pre bypass, oh for god sake I think people are taking this topic to whole new level. This is getting beyond ignorant, as to people using pointers for a motorway for the sake of wanting it motorway and **** everything else.

You have never even travelled on it. This is why I don't accept this nonsense.

And jus back to the Athlone Bypass for a sec, if people are comcerned about the sightlines not being suitable for 120km/h well then im sure the Co. Co. can impose a 100km/h jus like they have done on the M50 jus after the redcow going north.

It's nothing to do with sightlines, It's to do with the Athlone bypass goes over many interchanges, a bridge and curves that are not designed for fast speeds.

Stop comparing it to the M50. You don't know what your yakking about here.

(jesus that is the longest post io have ever written ha)

Well since you never travelled on the Athlone bypass, I'm kinda wondering how you wrote so much about it aswell :pac:

God this is funny. "I want my blue road" no matter what. it's for safety give me a break.

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

God this is funny. "I want my blue road" no matter what. it's for safety give me a break.

Where has anyone expressed a view even close to "I want my blue road" on this thread - other than yourself?

Nobody has. There have been a few accurate arguments about the way roads appear on maps (the former A6144M in Britain is a good example of this, a single carriageway motorway which was so designated just so drivers would take the "blue road" rather than the A road network - http://pathetic.org.uk/former/a6144m/ ) but this is as far as it has got. Nobody has pushed for redesignation solely for the sake of saying its a motorway. Also take note that your beloved British standards don't actually require a motorway to have a dividing median... they don't require much, really.


Explain to me how it is safe to let cyclists, pedestrians, slow vehicles and learner drivers use a high speed, high traffic road? And if, as you've claimed before, theres no cyclists/pedestrians and few slow vehicles on the road, who is going to be inconvenienced by restrictions?

G_R

mysterious wrote: »

What a load of crap.

Surviving perfectly before the bypass? what on earth are you on about, everyone survived before the bypass

exactly so if they cant use it then big deal

mysterious wrote: »

It's nothing to do with sightlines, It's to do with the Athlone bypass goes over many interchanges, a bridge and curves that are not designed for fast speeds.

ok thats fine i accept that, as i said i have never been on it and i havent read the entire tread. but even so at the moment the speed limit is 100km/h so if they reclassify it and reduce the speed limit (which i suggested) then whats the problem, speed wont be increasing.

mysterious wrote: »

Well since you never travelled on the Athlone bypass, I'm kinda wondering how you wrote so much about it aswell :pac:

well in case you havent noticed the tread isnt actually tittled "athlone bypass redesignation sparks huge complaints" its jus called "motorway designation sparks huge complaints" so jus cos i havent travelled on the athlone bypass doesnt mean i should exclude myself from this converstion.

mysterious wrote: »

God this is funny. "I want my blue road" no matter what. it's for safety give me a break.

i dont kno what knida pleasure you think people get from seeing loads of blue lines on a map but i can assure you i dont get any...

YAWN!

The Athlone bypass/relief road is OK as it is, it prevents the town from completely jamming up! But, it just needs protection from developers trying to add additional junctions to it for their pet developments.

Even if it was designated a motorway, you'll still see tractors & unaccompanied learners on it! :rolleyes: