Motorway Redesignation sparks huge complaints

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

You'd be at all odds with all road planners then.

The increase in traffic through the urban area will be miniscule. The increase in safety on the bypass as a result will be huge; and the risk of
the bypass becoming congested will be significantly reduced.

This is complete contradiction and farce. Farce would be the word exactly:rolleyes:

You say the removal of certain traffic would be HUGE and such a positive effect, surprised you didn't overtly elaborate. I want my blue motorway stomp stomp, no matter what.:pac:

On the other hand since the beniefetery effect is HUGE the transferred traffic through the town would be MINISCULE

Get off the contractidictory waffle, and please get off this saferty issue, it's getting petty. There was never a safety issue with agricultural vehicles using the existing bypass as a shannon crossing in all the 19 years. There is alot of farmers and agri vehicles that use the bypass to get from one county to the other and from one part of lands to the other. There is many roads feeding the bypass, and to just shut them all off and put them through the town.

Is not acceptable. the existing bridge cannot manage at present. So please lay of your agenda please it's cleary blatant at this stage

Is huge for your argument but for the other argument its minscule.

This nonsense I just don't tolderate or put up with. I can see straight through that bullogy. This bypass was built for all purpose and to provide for all traffic to get around Athlone. it is not just an inter urban bypass between Dublin and Galway. It is as straight forward as that. This is the reality it is not going to change and it is not going to be a motoway. It has a lower speed and design spec than a motorway. Therefore it does not need to be a motorway. It's alternative route is not adequate. The existing towns network cannot handle the traffic at present.

If you want to really get into the gritty details of this inter urban network. The right job would of been to build a inter urban motorway inlign with the N6 south of Athlone away from the town. This bypass is not to be taken away from the town and be used as a motorway only for N6 importance.

Get off this balony all of you. I'm fine for reclassification as getting on off developments and cyclists off the road. But that is as far as it should be and go end of story.

Get off this I want my blue motorway, the simple fact none of you have a constructive argument to give. You keep all safety. I'm ready to pea at this stage it's so pathetic. Safety is not an issue, it was never an issue. it's not going to be an issue. You all here want it to be an issue so you can all get a motorway out of this road.

It is not going to be a motorway, it is not the design speed for a motorway. It was not built as a motorway. It's not capable of been a motorway. The existing alternative route is not adequate for the alternative local traffic. The existing alternative and local traffic carries up to 3/4 of the total of the bypass traffic. The N6 traffic is not that exstensive or significant.

So none of you really have an argument, but i want my motorway.

SeanW

mysterious wrote: »

Get off the contractidictory waffle, and please get off this saferty issue, it's getting petty.

Motorways are widely regardeds as the safest roads in the State.

There was never a safety issue with agricultural vehicles using the existing bypass as a shannon crossing in all the 19 years.

You do realise that most new tractors exceed the 50kph capability requirement of Motorways? Do you really expect us to believe that a couple of 20 year old Massey Fergusons every month are going to bring Athlone Town Centre to it's knees?

There is many roads feeding the bypass, and to just shut them all off and put them through the town.

Right, so if I want to drive (full B license, with car) from the N55, N62 or N80 to Roscommon, I'll have to go through the town because the bypass will be "cut off?" I'm not out to put words in your mouth - I don't want to do that - but I need some help understanding precisely what the hell you're babbling about?

It's alternative route is not adequate. The existing towns network cannot handle the traffic at present.

How many 20 year old Massey Fergusons are going to form a traffic wall that brings Athlone Town Centre to its knees? How many law breaking L Drivers with no accompanying driver (who could take the wheel) are going to think "Hmm, I'm already breaking two laws, better not break a third." You clearly don't know what a Motorway requires in this State (an alternative only needs to exist - in this case the old N6) which we already knew given your ... contributions ... about Expressways (U.S.A. only) and Special roads (Britain?), and your ... complaint ... about the multiplexing roads that actually don't.

Get off this balony all of you. I'm fine for reclassification as getting on off developments and cyclists off the road. But that is as far as it should be and go end of story.

Reclassificaton to motorway is the only way to do those things. We don't have Expressways in this country nor do we have the option of designating it a "special road"

It is not going to be a motorway

Unless the developers in Roscommon nix the plan, it will.

it is not the design speed for a motorway. It was not built as a motorway ... The existing alternative route is not adequate for the alternative local traffic.

It doesn't matter. Don't you get it? Irish law (as opposed to American or UK law) only requires that an alternative route be present, doesn't say anything about whether it's great or not, furthermore it deosn't have to have had a Motorway Regulation Order from opening day to become a Motorway. It also does not have to have perfect specifications to be a Motorway as the Cashel Bypass and M50 proves.

The existing alternative and local traffic carries up to 3/4 of the total of the bypass traffic. The N6 traffic is not that exstensive or significant.

The only traffic that's going to be taken off the National Primary Road Bypass will be horses and riders, animal herders, cyclists and moped riders (L drivers don't count because they will either have a qualified driver to take the wheel or will already be breaking other road laws anyway).

So none of you really have an argument, but i want my motorway.

And you clearly have no argument except "I WANT MY GREEN DUAL CARRIAGEWAY! MEANIES "

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

This is complete contradiction and farce. Farce would be the word exactly:rolleyes:

You say the removal of certain traffic would be HUGE and such a positive effect, surprised you didn't overtly elaborate. I want my blue motorway stomp stomp, no matter what.:pac:

On the other hand since the beniefetery effect is HUGE the transferred traffic through the town would be MINISCULE

It contradicts in no way. Each slow or dangerous vehicle on the bypass has a huge impact on its safety and capacity. But there are very few of these so the impact on the town would be minimal

Now please stop falling back on your utterly pathetic blue roads line.

L1011

2 stroke wrote: »

Law enforcment, propper planning and sensible driving are the answers to safety and congestion on the bypass.

What law enforcement is going to stop 35km/h or slower vehicles from using it, without a motorway order? What law enforcement is going to stop developers getting permission for private accesses, without either utterly removing local politics in the country; or a motorway order?

The first of these issues is both safety and congestion related and the second is congested related. You can't answer either of them.

OK a quick questionaire for those of you involved in the argument about the Athlone Bypass/relief road.

• Are you a local (living/working in the Athlone area)
• Do you commute via the Athlone bypass
• Do you reguraly drive through the town.
• Are you worried about future developments (additional junctions) on the bypass.
• Would the ban of non-motorway traffic affect you? (are you a learner)
• Should it be a motorway.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

OK a quick questionaire for those of you involved in the argument about the Athlone Bypass/relief road.

• Are you a local (living/working in the Athlone area) Yes
• Do you commute via the Athlone bypass Yes
• Do you reguraly drive through the town. Yes but not often
• Are you worried about future developments (additional junctions) on the bypass. Yes
• Would the ban of non-motorway traffic affect you? (are you a learner) No
• Should it be a motorway. No

To answer my own survey

Zoney

mysterious: repeating that others "just want their blue line" and are behaving emotively (stomp stomp) is rather disingenious when you have managed to keep the thread going for 17 pages - most of which you have replied on multiple times! I've avoided replying on a number of occasions now, but frankly I'm sick of seeing this thread pop up, and yes I'm stupid enough to click each time in case there is some actual real news or debate.

I'll say it again - I can understand the particular people affected making a fuss (e.g. farmers who won't be able to drive tractors on a road they've always used - however ridiculous it was) but I cannot understand someone such as yourself taking up the cause on their behalf.

None of the arguments you have presented stand up - any of the factors against it becoming motorway that even slightly apply are entirely eliminated by the use of a 100 km/h limit. The *only* disadvantage is the disaccommodation of the farmers, and that is balanced out by the safety of others - even at 100 km/h, agricultural vehicles on a trunk dual carriageway national route is not sensible. Learner drivers do not enter into it - they are supposed to be on the roads accompanied by a qualified driver to *learn* not to regularly get from A to B (even if that is only now starting to be enforced).

Now - if you persist in saying the same old tired lines over and over again, I will respectively suggest that you just want your *green* line - stomp stomp stomp.

roosterman71

Deleted User wrote: »

OK a quick questionaire for those of you involved in the argument about the Athlone Bypass/relief road.

• Are you a local (living/working in the Athlone area)
• Do you commute via the Athlone bypass
• Do you reguraly drive through the town.
• Are you worried about future developments (additional junctions) on the bypass.
• Would the ban of non-motorway traffic affect you? (are you a learner)
• Should it be a motorway.

Yes
Yes
Yes
No
No
Yes - but with speed restrictions

murphaph

Deleted User wrote: »

OK a quick questionaire for those of you involved in the argument about the Athlone Bypass/relief road.

• Are you a local (living/working in the Athlone area) No
• Do you commute via the Athlone bypass No
• Do you reguraly drive through the town. No
• Are you worried about future developments (additional junctions) on the bypass. Yes
• Would the ban of non-motorway traffic affect you? (are you a learner) No
• Should it be a motorway. Yes

My answers. To be honest, asking if someone is local to a piece of national infrastructure is irrelevant. Just because that national infrastructure passes near someone doesn't mean their opinion on it is any less important.

Of course the N6 Athlone Bypass should be declared motorway. A handul of slow vehicles (as mentioned above, modern tractors are easily able to do 50km/h, I would raise the minimum speed on all motorways to 60 or 70km/h myself but that's another days argument), pedestrians, cyclists and people in control of animals will be forced to use the old route. Are we to believe pedestrians, cyclists, herds of animals and clapped out tractors are going to bring Athlone to its knees?

veryangryman

murphaph wrote: »

Of course the N6 Athlone Bypass should be declared motorway.Are we to believe pedestrians, cyclists, herds of animals and clapped out tractors are going to bring Athlone to its knees?

Yes. Yes we are. Do you not understand that people AVOID the town because it is so frickin frustrating getting through it as it is. At least you can overtake a "slow moving vehicle" on the bypass - not the case in town.

And fukc the written rules about L-drivers (im not one before you ask). The point is that they drive on this road and will continue to do so until the Gardai do their job/public transport improves. Since this is not going to happen anytime soon, we need to work with what we have. Give these people a break, let the farmers do their work (for all their sins, i do like my pork chops on my dinner) and learn the concept of SHARING this nice old road that we have.

I pride myself in knowing that Athlone had a DC bypass before even Dublin. It is fine the way it is. Vast majority of people within 20 miles of the town will tell you this. As for the long haul traffic, they will live. Should use this section of the journey to grab a sandwich anyway. :pac:

veryangryman

Are you a local (living/working in the Athlone area) Yes
Do you commute via the Athlone bypass Yes
Do you reguraly drive through the town. Not really when i can help it. I pour scorn on anyone who drives through the town when the bypass can take them to their part of the place so much quicker
Are you worried about future developments (additional junctions) on the bypass. Yes
Would the ban of non-motorway traffic affect you? (are you a learner) No but i used to be, and i realise what a pain in the hole it would be if i had been forced off this quality road
Should it be a motorway. No no and double no

spacetweek

Can we lock this thread now please?

Bards

murphaph wrote: »

My answers. To be honest, asking if someone is local to a piece of national infrastructure is irrelevant. Just because that national infrastructure passes near someone doesn't mean their opinion on it is any less important.

Of course the N6 Athlone Bypass should be declared motorway. A handul of slow vehicles (as mentioned above, modern tractors are easily able to do 50km/h, I would raise the minimum speed on all motorways to 60 or 70km/h myself but that's another days argument), pedestrians, cyclists and people in control of animals will be forced to use the old route. Are we to believe pedestrians, cyclists, herds of animals and clapped out tractors are going to bring Athlone to its knees?

Agree with Everything Murphaph says


.. can I just add that the second last question is a red-herring due to the Fact that Learner Drivers are not allowed to drive on ANY road unaccompanied. Therfore the point is mute as to whether the Athlone Bypass becomes a Motorway or not.

veryangryman

spacetweek wrote: »

Can we lock this thread now please?

Why? People seem to have more opinions to post. If the thread becomes cumbersome it will die a death. I find the debate interesting

I wonder if the government are watching this thread before deciding on the N/M6 Athlone section, it could explain the delay! :pac:


Makes a change to see a lively debate in infrastructure.

murphaph

veryangryman wrote: »

Yes. Yes we are [supposed to believe that a handful of pedestrians, cyclists, herds of animals and clapped out tractors are going to bring Athlone to its knees].

Please elaborate....answer each in turn if you can. Will each of these cause added congestion in Athlone?
a) extra pedestrians
b) extra cyclists
c) extra animals
d) extra tractors (only ones incapable of 50km/h, remembering most modern tractors can easily achieve this)

veryangryman wrote: »

Do you not understand that people AVOID the town because it is so frickin frustrating getting through it as it is.

I suggest then that either the bypass is innefective as a bypass or the town itself has poor traffic management or both. I suggest the real problem may be that Westmeath/Roscommon CC have inadequate signage to get traffic across the river and through the town smoothly and that the town itself would benefit from a thorough review of its signage and traffic management.

veryangryman wrote: »

At least you can overtake a "slow moving vehicle" on the bypass - not the case in town.

If the town is as congested as you make out, how would you overtake ANY vehicle? Surely you'd just be stuck behind the next vehicle in the queue??

veryangryman wrote: »

And fukc the written rules about L-drivers (im not one before you ask). The point is that they drive on this road and will continue to do so until the Gardai do their job/public transport improves. Since this is not going to happen anytime soon, we need to work with what we have. Give these people a break, let the farmers do their work (for all their sins, i do like my pork chops on my dinner) and learn the concept of SHARING this nice old road that we have.

Sure why bother with laws at all? We have been a joke of a country when it comes to law enforcement on our highways. We should strive to improve, not say "shur'n feck it anyway lads".

veryangryman wrote: »

I pride myself in knowing that Athlone had a DC bypass before even Dublin. It is fine the way it is. Vast majority of people within 20 miles of the town will tell you this. As for the long haul traffic, they will live. Should use this section of the journey to grab a sandwich anyway. :pac:

Have you ever stopped to consider that long haul traffic (especially foreigners) see no blue line on the map and assume the bypass is of low standard like the approach roads and think "sure the other way through the town looks shorter" (remember the bypass really makes quite a northerly detour around the town. It is certainly not direct even though it's faster. But a foreigner looking at a map thinks "blue roads are fast roads, green roads are like the rest of the rubbish green roads I've been driving on". A blue line on a map would HELP Athlone if anything by ensuring long distance traffic, especially foreign tucks take the bypass!!!

roosterman71

murphaph wrote: »

Please elaborate....answer each in turn if you can. Will each of these cause added congestion in Athlone?
a) extra pedestrians
b) extra cyclists
c) extra animals
d) extra tractors (only ones incapable of 50km/h, remembering most modern tractors can easily achieve this)


I suggest then that either the bypass is innefective as a bypass or the town itself has poor traffic management or both. I suggest the real problem may be that Westmeath/Roscommon CC have inadequate signage to get traffic across the river and through the town smoothly and that the town itself would benefit from a thorough review of its signage and traffic management.


If the town is as congested as you make out, how would you overtake ANY vehicle? Surely you'd just be stuck behind the next vehicle in the queue??


Sure why bother with laws at all? We have been a joke of a country when it comes to law enforcement on our highways. We should strive to improve, not say "shur'n feck it anyway lads".


Have you ever stopped to consider that long haul traffic (especially foreigners) see no blue line on the map and assume the bypass is of low standard like the approach roads and think "sure the other way through the town looks shorter" (remember the bypass really makes quite a northerly detour around the town. It is certainly not direct even though it's faster. But a foreigner looking at a map thinks "blue roads are fast roads, green roads are like the rest of the rubbish green roads I've been driving on". A blue line on a map would HELP Athlone if anything by ensuring long distance traffic, especially foreign tucks take the bypass!!!

Extra pedestrians has a zero affect. There isn't a large volume walking the bypass. Same goes for cyclists. And no herds of animals walk along it either from a-b. As for tractors, granted, some (definately not most) can do 50 hm/h. But they are new and unless all farmers that use the bypass buy new tractors, they'll be forced through some part of the town which will slow traffic. Again though, not by much as there isn't huge queues of tractors on the bypass.

The bypass itself is very effective. It links many regional roads, crosses the river, and removes large volumes of traffic from the narrow streets of Athlone.

Point about overtaking in town is spot on. You are stuck behind a slow mover unless there is ample opportunity and visibility to overtake safely.

As for foreign drivers going through town, then they have problems if they look at a map, see a green road around a town, and decide to go through the town instead because it looks shorter. Especially if there's a blue line either end of the green one around the town!!

Steviemak

If more developments are given access to the by-pass it will result in it becoming more crowded and thus encouraging people to go through the town. I really really don't understand why a local would want the by-pass to become unusuable due to over development. The more free flowing a by-pass the less people will use the town centre as a route through.

The M50 experience being a case in point.

Carawaystick

SeanW wrote: »

Reclassificaton to motorway is the only way to do those things. We don't have Expressways in this country nor do we have the option of designating it a "special road"

Eh, the N25 has a ban on pedestrians and cyclists where it goes under the Lee.

Zoney

Carawaystick: I have seen the signs there for that - but, accepting that it may indeed be properly restricted, I would nevertheless point out that just because there are signs saying it is, does not actually mean that there is any sort of legally enforceable restriction.

veryangryman

roosterman71 wrote: »

As for foreign drivers going through town, then they have problems if they look at a map, see a green road around a town, and decide to go through the town instead because it looks shorter. Especially if there's a blue line either end of the green one around the town!!

Regional Roads (the old N6 or current R446/R362) are YELLOW. Not green

So Joe Foreigner must be some plank to decide to avoid the current bypass based on any map post 1992

TBH id rather we do what Portlaoise/Maynooth do and ban trucks and heavy vehicles from town. Has worked wonders for them. The more traffic (all types) that uses the bypass the better.

And yes we "should" strive to have the law enforced. But please get real - we are irish and any attempt to reinforce rules will be forgotten about within a month of "crackdowns". You know it, i know it.

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

OK a quick questionaire for those of you involved in the argument about the Athlone Bypass/relief road.

• Are you a local (living/working in the Athlone area)
• Do you commute via the Athlone bypass
• Do you reguraly drive through the town.
• Are you worried about future developments (additional junctions) on the bypass.
• Would the ban of non-motorway traffic affect you? (are you a learner)
• Should it be a motorway.

No
Yes
Define regularly... (probably no)
Yes
No
Yes

There were pedestrians on it today on my way to Galway, btw... so much for them not existing so not needing to be banned.

murphaph

Carawaystick wrote: »

Eh, the N25 has a ban on pedestrians and cyclists where it goes under the Lee.

I tried to find the SI that created that ban and I couldn't. I suspect they just put signs up and they are unenforcable tbh. I don't believe a council can make a bye-law banning specific classes of vehicle. The minister for transport could make an order under the 1993 roads act AFAIK but I've never seen one.

BluntGuy

Carawaystick wrote: »

Eh, the N25 has a ban on pedestrians and cyclists where it goes under the Lee.

And straight after the Jack Lynch tunnel, where do you find yourself? That's right... Mahon Point!

mysterious

Athlone bypass is not a safety issue with Tractors and L


GET OFF IT FFS. it's getting really petty. There was never an issue.

The only changes made to the bypass are

No pedstrians, No cyclists, No animals and No off road devlopments.

This bypass is not just for N6 traffic. It has a lower speed limit than a motorway. Therefore tractors DO not need to be forced into the town. This bypass is 3/4 of local traffic. This is a high percentage. There would be atleast a 1000 tractors if not more a day using the existing bypass bridge to get from one side of the Shannon to the other. This cannot be put into Athlone town. End of story.

Steviemak

mysterious wrote: »

There would be atleast a 1000 tractors if not more a day using the existing bypass bridge

Alright thats it! Somebody please lock this thread. Its not April 1st anymore.

BluntGuy

mysterious wrote: »

This bypass is not just for N6 traffic. It has a lower speed limit than a motorway. Therefore tractors DO not need to be forced into the town. This bypass is 3/4 of local traffic. This is a high percentage. There would be atleast a 1000 tractors if not more a day using the existing bypass bridge to get from one side of the Shannon to the other.

Ahh... so you finally produced some figures.

Too bad you made them up.

And yes, this thread is becoming tiresome. It's the same points being repeated over and over.

mysterious

mysterious wrote: »

There would be atleast a 1000 tractors if not more a day .

Please! it can't be that many! unless all the farmers are on an outing
20-50 a day would be more realistic, but forcing these through the town would be detrimental.

BTW, many of these tractors journeys are not farmers going to work their own land as few have land both sides the Shannon, it's delivering turf etc

I was talking today to a friend who remembered the town before the bypass was built and he was saying it would typically take about one hour to get through during busy times, a bit like Moate last year or Mountmellick today.

G_R

mysterious wrote: »

There would be atleast a 1000 tractors if not more a day using the existing bypass

ye right, come on ive never been on the bloody road and i can tell thats a load of crap. will u please either come up with some new points as to why this road shouldnt b M or just drop it for god sake,

the thread is (so far) 18 pages of the the same thing over and over again. gettin a bit borin at this stage and with quotes like that is becomeing ridiculous. any chance of a lock please mods??

BluntGuy

This thread really should've had a vote attached to see what the general opinion on this was.