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Motorway Redesignation sparks huge complaints

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    #122
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,785 ✭✭✭SeanW


    and anyway this is going to be fully free flow this time next year.
    Well that's good news :cool:
    But it's not a motorway. It's still has green signs and it's has always been a blunder, this example does not make the Athlone bypass now a motorway either.
    I am merely pointing out examples of very low quality roads that have Motorway Regulation Orders applied to them. Roundabouts, single carriageways and so on - it doesn't make sense to have this carry on while someone else proposed to leave a bit of GSDC plonked in between two motorways, a gap in an unbroken divided highway left without motorway status for what I consider to be no good reason.
    What about the curves? closly spaced interchanges and a design speed of 100kmh.
    F*** them. Noone cares. By this logic, the M50 should now be stripped of it's MRO because it now has a design speed of 100kph and lane widths that put it out of expected motorway standards. In addition to its continuing around a roundabout.
    Why does it have to be motorway, when it's not.
    Why can't it be a motorway when it (as much as anything else) meets the requirements of same? Why does the M6 have to have 'Cumberland Gap' when strictly speaking it is not necessary?
    Athlone bypass has never had this problem in 19 years, mahon points won't be built, as there is not much land adjacent to the Atlone bypass.
    (Re)Read the title post - one of the complaints is from a Westside developer (and his local authority buddy,) for whom a motorway designation on the bypass would mess up his plans.
    This prove your not familar with the standards that need to be met for motorways.
    I know precisely what a 3 level stack is and I specifically mentioned that it provides grade separation for the mainlines of the motorways. What I don't like is the interchange.


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    #123
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    If the Athlone Bypass remains D2AP there is all the chance in the world some selfish people will decide they want to stick a direct access onto it or inappropiately over-develop the roadside. They will have no problem getting planning permission from corrupt local councillors. The NRA are powerless in this situation. They can object but they cannot stop a decision going through (that's why I'm so worried for the Waterford Bypass as well.)


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    #124
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    SeanW wrote: »
    F*** them. Noone cares. By this logic, the M50 should now be stripped of it's MRO because it now has a design speed of 100kph and lane widths that put it out of expected motorway standards. In addition to its continuing around a roundabout.

    I know you just want to stomp and scream for blue roads. Yeah some logic. eh. To prove more that you really don't much about motorway requirements.

    The lane widths on the M50 is sufficient enough for a motorway. 3.5metre is the metric standard. It is accepted widely throughout Europe. It used to be 3.75 on the M50 as it followed the old english imperial road widths.

    The curves is only one problem just south of Firhouse. That has a design speed of 100kmh anyway. The entire M50 is up to the spec of a motorway.

    So sean you really need to study this, before you make silly claims. Every inter urban is following the width of 3.5m standard.
    Why can't it be a motorway when it (as much as anything else) meets the requirements of same? Why does the M6 have to have 'Cumberland Gap' when strictly speaking it is not necessary?
    Because you say so? It's clearly not up to the standard, even the NRA left this out of the reclassification. So it's either logic, me and the NRA are wrong. Or your right. But's that highly unlikely that your right anyhoo.:D

    Cumberland gap is not a fair comparison. It was upgraded to motorway standard that's why it was made motorway. Nothing else and nothing more. This gap is far longer than the Athlone bypass and has far higher traffic levels than that of the Athlone bypass.

    If you want to compare go ahead. Just be prepared that most English wouldnt even pep over the Athlone bypass whatsoever. They are many examples where a motorway becomes DC and back to motorway.

    They are not obsessed like some people here. If the Athlone bypass was in England it just would not get the motorway chop on it.

    I know precisely what a 3 level stack is and I specifically mentioned that it provides grade separation for the mainlines of the motorways. What I don't like is the interchange.
    But this is not the topic or relevant to the Athlone bypass.

    But you made this an example of not up to motorway standard, So sean you didn't know. Your just back tracking cus I corrected you, so that it would appear you knew what your talking about. You don't, and it's to late to try state so:D


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    #125
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    If the Athlone Bypass remains D2AP there is all the chance in the world some selfish people will decide they want to stick a direct access onto it or inappropiately over-develop the roadside. They will have no problem getting planning permission from corrupt local councillors. The NRA are powerless in this situation. They can object but they cannot stop a decision going through (that's why I'm so worried for the Waterford Bypass as well.)

    ROFL...

    People are actually going to cry over it. lol...


    This is really proving, just for desires and not direct reasonings.

    So if's not looking ugly on a map. if it's not tractors, if its not learners. Bluntguy will find some other exucse for wanting it to be motorway:D It's pricless and very obvious at this stage.

    I swear if they took HS off the Athlone bypass, he would still squirm and want it motorway. It will look so beautiful on a map. Kinda odd really.


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    #126
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    Mysterious, with all your patronising and criticising of others, I find it remarkable that you have demonstrated - somewhat embarassingly - that you clearly don't even know what a motorway is.

    Until you actually learn what constitutes a motorway, you're in no position to be debating this topic.


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    #127
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,785 ✭✭✭SeanW


    I know you just want to stomp and scream for blue roads. Yeah some logic. eh. To prove more that you really don't much about motorway requirements.
    To a point yes. But not to the extent you suggest.
    The lane widths on the M50 is sufficient enough for a motorway. 3.5metre is the metric standard. It is accepted widely throughout Europe. It used to be 3.75 on the M50 as it followed the old english imperial road widths.

    The curves is only one problem just south of Firhouse. That has a design speed of 100kmh anyway. The entire M50 is up to the spec of a motorway
    Then please tell me why the entire M50 from its ... junction ... with the M1 to the Southern end of the 3 lane works has a permanent speed limit of 100kph? Surely they're not just putting up 100 speed signs for the craic? Something has put that section of the M50 out of normally expected motorway standards and by your logic it should now be stripped of its MRO.
    So it's either logic, me and the NRA are wrong. Or your right. But's that highly unlikely that your right anyhoo.
    (Re)read the first page. The bypass is up for reclassification - much to the annoyance of some devloper p***k who wants to use it as a main street for his new development - and his buddy on the local council who will be more than happy to approve it all.
    ROFL...

    People are actually going to cry over it. lol...
    Well, not the developer, he'll be laughing all the way (back) to the bank.
    So if's not looking ugly on a map. if it's not tractors, if its not learners.
    Tractors, cyclists horses etc should not be on that road. L Platers will either be able to change places with their accompanying driver, or if they don't have an accompanying driver and are not displaying L Plates, are already breaking the law and will in practice be free to use the M-way anyway.
    So sean you didn't know. Your just back tracking cus I corrected you, so that it would appear you knew what your talking about. You don't, and it's to late to try state so
    You misread my post and now you're putting words in my mouth. I did not backtrack on anything.


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    #128
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    Mysterious, your reasoning of the Athlone Bypass being under-spec for a motorway is invalid, and if you truly knew what you were talking about, you'd know why. So what is your TRUE reason for not wanting the Athlone Bypass to be redesignated? Developer friends is it?

    Methinks it's just because you dislike the colour blue. :-)


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    #129
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,119 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Anyone find mysterious's campaign against the Athlone Bypass getting redesignated on the grounds of "its just putting down blue lines" rather at odds with his oft stated desire to get the N7 Naas Road changed to motorway for much the same reason?


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    #130
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    MYOB wrote: »
    Anyone find mysterious's campaign against the Athlone Bypass getting redesignated on the grounds of "its just putting down blue lines" rather at odds with his oft stated desire to get the N7 Naas Road changed to motorway for much the same reason?

    Ah yes complaining about that little patch of green on the M7 on a thread started by the man himself. And of course he actually said before hes lives near the N7.

    Im in support of all the redesignations with the Athlone bypass on 100km/hr limits. But until the actual redesignations come out I dont really see the point continuing on complaining about it tbh..


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    #131
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Rather an apt thread title after the last 9 pages :D


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    #132
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    MYOB wrote: »
    Anyone find mysterious's campaign against the Athlone Bypass getting redesignated on the grounds of "its just putting down blue lines" rather at odds with his oft stated desire to get the N7 Naas Road changed to motorway for much the same reason?

    MYOB don't go take my words out of context and put words into my mouth.

    I said I wanted the Naas road upgraded eventually, with auxillary lanes provided between Rathcoole and Kingswood interchange, to provide the many weaving movements, on such a busy road. Also the Rathcoole to Kingswood local road would be another thing I would want sorted for local traffic, if that is built then it could be motorway. I never suggest it should be motorway for the craic, nor do I suggest the Athlone bypass be motorway for the craic either.

    I don't really care if it's not a motorway, if it's up to the spec of a motorway then I'm up for it been reclassfied.


    Again I'm not here to sing a sweet story, or here to bull****, but there is certainly alot of the been shoveled on this thread. MYOB I had to pull you up on your sniding inaccurate comments.

    Lay it off.


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    #133
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    SeanW wrote: »
    To a point yes. But not to the extent you suggest.
    No it's the whoooole point... :rolleyes: and nothing but that point. If there was volume on this thread, there would be screaming I WANT MY BLUE ROAD, I WANT MY BLUE ROAD.
    Then please tell me why the entire M50 from its ... junction ... with the M1 to the Southern end of the 3 lane works has a permanent speed limit of 100kph? Surely they're not just putting up 100 speed signs for the craic?
    Probably because it's now basically an urban motorway and carries very heavy traffic not to mention that it will be at capactiy soon. I don't think you can go very fast on this stretch only at am times.
    Tractors, cyclists horses etc should not be on that road. L Platers will either be able to change places with their accompanying driver, or if they don't have an accompanying driver and are not displaying L Plates, are already breaking the law and will in practice be free to use the M-way anyway.

    Why not, for 19 years it was never a problem, why can't L users this road, since the speed limit is kept at 100kmh, What is the issue?

    OTher than "I want my blue road"

    You misread my post and now you're putting words in my mouth. I did not backtrack on anything.
    Oh no I didn't, You spinned all the stories, I just answered the question. I wouldn't need to put words in your mouth, you well able to dish it out all by yourself.:D

    According to previous posts.


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    #134
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    Mysterious, with all your patronising and criticising of others, I find it remarkable that you have demonstrated - somewhat embarassingly - that you clearly don't even know what a motorway is.

    Until you actually learn what constitutes a motorway, you're in no position to be debating this topic.

    How so? If you don't think so, please back up your statements, or practise what you preach sir.

    I've read the design specification of what a motorway is and needs in order to be a motorway. Athlone was built as an all purpose DC.


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    #135
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,119 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    mysterious wrote: »

    Why not, for 19 years it was never a problem, why can't L users this road, since the speed limit is kept at 100kmh, What is the issue?

    Safety. Its a high speed road with heavy weaving as is, once the Ballinasloe-Athlone scheme opens this will only get worse. It is lethally dangerous to let learners, pedestrians, cyclists, horses and slow vehicles on this road as is; and will only become more so.


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    #136
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,119 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    mysterious wrote: »
    How so? If you don't think so, please back up your statements, or practise what you preach sir.

    I've read the design specification of what a motorway is and needs in order to be a motorway. Athlone was built as an all purpose DC.

    Please link to these design specifications. Irish ones. Thanks.

    Seeing as you go on about backing up statements, clearly you have these to hand.


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    #137
    AugustusMaximus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭AugustusMaximus


    There is no reason why the Athlone bypass cannot be redesignated.

    Slapping a 120kph speed limit on it would be a different matter though.

    Mysterious, why are you so against redesignation ?


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    #138
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    mysterious wrote: »
    I've read the design specification of what a motorway is and needs in order to be a motorway. Athlone was built as an all purpose DC.

    Indeed it was. It opened as D2AP and it will soon become D2M.

    Can you please explain exactly why the Athlone Bypass can't become a motorway? Care to show me these design specifications?


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    #139
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,785 ✭✭✭SeanW


    AugustusMaximus wrote: »
    Mysterious, why are you so against redesignation ?
    No one's really sure - he just keeps rabbitting on about 100kph speed limits and L Drivers. When people here have tried to explain the safety advantages for fast(ish) and long distance traffic (it is a bypass remember) the advantages of a Motorway Regulation Order preventing bad developments turning the DC into a local road, etc, he either doesn't listen, puts words into peoples' mouths, makes some snide comment, uses "I just want my blue road" (all the while looking for his own little blue road on an way crappier dual carriageway) as a stick to beat the people who try to explain it with, or just goes back to rabbitting on about 100kph speed limits and L Drivers. (None of which seems to bother the people who use the new M50)

    It's getting a little boring.


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    #140
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    MYOB wrote: »
    Anyone find mysterious's campaign against the Athlone Bypass getting redesignated on the grounds of "its just putting down blue lines" rather at odds with his oft stated desire to get the N7 Naas Road changed to motorway for much the same reason?
    Best point made so far. Athlone bypass is far more like a "motorway" than the Naas Road yet our friend is against the former and for the latter being redesignated. Nonsense!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::cool:


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    #141
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    murphaph wrote: »
    Best point made so far. Athlone bypass is far more like a "motorway" than the Naas Road yet our friend is against the former and for the latter being redesignated. Nonsense!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::cool:

    Ironic though, you missed that point, and my point.

    I never claimed the Naas road is up for being a motorway nor do do I think it should be resdesignated.

    Oh yeah:rolleyes::D


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    #142
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,119 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Found those specifications yet?


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    #143
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    MYOB wrote: »
    Safety. Its a high speed road with heavy weaving as is, once the Ballinasloe-Athlone scheme opens this will only get worse. It is lethally dangerous to let learners, pedestrians, cyclists, horses and slow vehicles on this road as is; and will only become more so.

    How many Learners, cyclists, pedestrians and horses have been killed on the Athlone bypass since it opened?

    How many occupants of motorway capable traffic have been killed by any of the above's presence on the Athlone bypass since it opened?


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    #144
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,119 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    How many Learners, cyclists, pedestrians and horses have been killed on the Athlone bypass since it opened?

    How many occupants of motorway capable traffic have been killed by any of the above's presence on the Athlone bypass since it opened?

    The Athlone bypass has not yet been bookended by motorways.

    Also, using the "ah sure it hasn't happened yet" excuse is pathetic - its not a safe road for that kind of traffic and will get less so. Sure why don't we let cyclists on the M4 while we're at it - the few that go down anyway have never been killed...


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    #145
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    MYOB wrote: »
    The Athlone bypass has not yet been bookended by motorways.

    Also, using the "ah sure it hasn't happened yet" excuse is pathetic - its not a safe road for that kind of traffic and will get less so. Sure why don't we let cyclists on the M4 while we're at it - the few that go down anyway have never been killed...

    In all my travels on it, i've never seen a cyclist on it, and I wouldn't see the point in cyclist's using it. You'd hardly think a cyclist would cylce and take a left off to the N55 up and downs those ramps.


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    #146
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,119 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    mysterious wrote: »
    In all my travels on it, i've never seen a cyclist on it, and I wouldn't see the point in cyclist's using it. You'd hardly think a cyclist would cylce and take a left off to the N55 up and downs those ramps.

    In my travels on it, I have seen cyclists on it.

    And anyway, if apparently cyclists don't use it; its no loss to them being banned then is it?


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    #147
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,985 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Mysterious, I think we've all heard quite enough of your ranting and childish whingeing on here. No one agrees with you. Get over it. You're incapable of accepting that you might be wrong on this. You really need to learn how to debate with people. You made a point, we don't agree with you - end of story. Drop it already.

    When challenged, you resort to infantile tactics like personal insults. Your sig says it all - smug and spoilt. You make mistakes, then backpedal.

    Now please drop it, so we can move on. It's so, so pathetic.

    Let me summarise this topic which has gone on waaaay too long...

    1. When you spent billions on infrastructure you take steps to protect its value from being eroded. When a road is motorway spec, it must be declared so. To not do so is a waste. In answer to your accusation that we all just want blue lines on a map, well, actually, yes this is exactly what we want. We want large-scale infrastructure built in Ireland. Why wouldn't we?
    2. The only people protesting against the redesignations all have either suspicious motives, or no case.
    Learner drivers: they will drive where they're bloody well told to. They aren't meant to be driving for any other reason than learning how to drive. They are NOT supposed to be going to work, or anywhere else. Learners are dangerous and need to be kept off roads with high traffic volumes.
    Property developers: They will use the existing junctions. They will use what is provided for them. They will not attempt to access the road any other way.
    Farmers: They have under and overpasses. In the case of the Athlone bypass, they can use the town road network. They are only complaining because they were given the privilege of using a dual carriageway to access property. Nowadays, these DCs are becoming part of a national motorway network, and are no longer suitable for farm vehicles.
    3. There are various grades of motorway. Some are higher spec than others. All are motorway. Some Irish motorways are low spec (not BELOW spec, there's a difference), such as the winding Cashel Bypass. Some are narrow, some wide like the new M50. There is a precedent in other countries for incorporating certain features into motorways which, while suboptimal, are still within tolerance. For example, it's common for bridges to not have stopping lanes. Bridges are very expensive to build, and stopping lanes are dead space. A vehicle that needs to pull over may do so at the end of the bridge. In America, motorways often have low speed limits, 55mph is common. This is usually done where there is a large amount of weaving traffic from junctions, such as on the Athlone Bypass.

    If you are still not convinced by the above 3 points, then you are remarkably fixated on this.

    P.S. Your grammar is crap too.


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    #148
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Indeed, the M50 has no hard shoulders along a ca. 4.5km section called the Dublin Port Tunnel. Should it have its motorway designation removed and let cyclists and tractors down it Mysterious? The only Mysterious things here are your true motives for ranting on about this road which should obviously be reclassified as M6 forthwith.


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    #149
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    murphaph wrote: »
    Indeed, the M50 has no hard shoulders along a ca. 4.5km section called the Dublin Port Tunnel. Should it have its motorway designation removed and let cyclists and tractors down it Mysterious? The only Mysterious things here are your true motives for ranting on about this road which should obviously be reclassified as M6 forthwith.

    Murphaph that is a tunnel. Cyclists wouldn't br allowed use the tunnel. Your comment is actually woefully silly. there is no lanes provided cyclists and cyclist would end up at a port via a toll. I dedicated your post to be the most strangest comparison I've ever heard on the Commuting transport forum EVER. That was a really point.:D And it's not the Athlone bypass.

    My motive is the Atlone bypass doesn't need to be a motorway. It's not a motorway and it's an all purpose DC that has a 100kmh speed limit slapped on it. It is fine as it is. If the road is upgraded and weaving lanes are provided between the tightly spaced junctions along it's lenght

    Then it should be upgraded to motorway. Motorways needs to have at leat 2km between interchanges if I'm correct. The existing alternative route is not adequate enough for this to be suddenly turned into a motoway.

    Stop cyclists from using it by al means, Cyclists wouldn't use this road, I don't know why any cyclists would use the Bypass, Cyclists wouldn't and why would a cyclists come from say Ballinsloe and want to go to Cavan via the Atlone bypass. There are no people who this, this is just another blantant pathetic excuse for people wanting this to be blue nothing more nothing less. It's getting sad on your part and for the people who keep making up silly excuses for it and otherwise. Cyclists wouldn't be able to access it as you have to go on slips it's actually more hassle for a cylist to use the bypass, why would a cyclist want to bypass Atlone where they going to go too. The only reason they want this a motorway because it will look cool on a map at present. It isn't cool and it's not built to a motorway design anyhow.


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    #150
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,119 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    mysterious wrote: »
    Murphaph that is a tunnel. Cyclists wouldn't allowed use the tunnel. there is no lanes provided. That was a stupid point.

    What section of the M50 ARE cyclists allowed use then? You bringing cyclists up as a response to that was the stupid point.
    mysterious wrote: »
    Motorways needs to have at leat 2km between interchanges if I'm correct

    You're not correct.


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    #151
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Mysterious, I think we've all heard quite enough of your ranting and childish whingeing on here. No one agrees with you. Get over it. You're incapable of accepting that you might be wrong on this. You really need to learn how to debate with people. You made a point, we don't agree with you - end of story. Drop it already.

    When challenged, you resort to infantile tactics like personal insults. Your sig says it all - smug and spoilt. You make mistakes, then backpedal.

    No, I just don't agree with you. Since I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I'm whineging or ranting.

    That is very incorrect.

    It is you who is taking this personal, such as above.

    Nor did i personally insult anyone on this thread, My stance and opinion is not directed at any individual on this thread, nor would I assume to do this. For you to say this is quite sly and ill will.

    Maybe you could lay off the personal peddal.
    Now please drop it, so we can move on. It's so, so pathetic.

    Classic childish remark, when someone has a dissagreement with someone.
    Move on as you wish, nobody stopping you.
    ...
    1. When you spent billions on infrastructure you take steps to protect its value from being eroded. When a road is motorway spec, it must be declared so. To not do so is a waste. In answer to your accusation that we all just want blue lines on a map, well, actually, yes this is exactly what we want. We want large-scale infrastructure built in Ireland. Why wouldn't we?
    How is the Athlone bypass motorway spec.

    Why wasn't it built as a motorway in the first place if it's a motorway.
    2. The only people protesting against the redesignations all have either suspicious motives, or no case.
    Oh yeah:rolleyes: rofl.... like what??????????
    Learner drivers: they will drive where they're bloody well told to. They aren't meant to be driving for any other reason than learning how to drive. They are NOT supposed to be going to work, or anywhere else. Learners are dangerous and need to be kept off roads with high traffic volumes.
    Property developers: They will use the existing junctions. They will use what is provided for them. They will not attempt to access the road any other way.

    So still doesn't mean the motorway should be motorway just because they get rid of learners.
    Farmers: They have under and overpasses. In the case of the Athlone bypass, they can use the town road network. They are only complaining because they were given the privilege of using a dual carriageway to access property. Nowadays, these DCs are becoming part of a national motorway network, and are no longer suitable for farm vehicles.
    Why can't local agricultural traffic not use the Athlone bypass to cross the Shannon in order to get to their lands?
    3. There are various grades of motorway. Some are higher spec than others. All are motorway. Some Irish motorways are low spec (not BELOW spec, there's a difference), such as the winding Cashel Bypass. Some are narrow, some wide like the new M50. There is a precedent in other countries for incorporating certain features into motorways which, while suboptimal, are still within tolerance. For example, it's common for bridges to not have stopping lanes. Bridges are very expensive to build, and stopping lanes are dead space. A vehicle that needs to pull over may do so at the end of the bridge. In America, motorways often have low speed limits, 55mph is common. This is usually done where there is a large amount of weaving traffic from junctions, such as on the Athlone Bypass.

    So if as you said, motorways have a low speed, why can't learners or Tractors use this then, if it's lower speed and has a shannon crossing.

    Why does it have to be blue then?
    If you are still not convinced by the above 3 points, then you are remarkably fixated on this.

    P.S. Your grammar is crap too.

    Oh it's personal now, You might want to look at your own post before you start pointing the fingers with the "judging and attacks"


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