will we ever see a 32 county republic

jimmmy

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

junder was saying he still holds grudges.

I did not get than impression from him . He wrote he " has no problem with the majorty of the people of the Republic of Ireland, nor do i feel threatned by your irish culture and i certinly do not hate it, its just not my culture" unquote. Where did he write "he still holds grudges", as you claim ? He or she does not strike me as someone who holds grudges.

Dannyboy83

jimmmy wrote: »

Dannyboy83 only a few post ago wrote to him ( our unionist friend )" Sorry to say mate, but I honestly think you are in a very small minority." and told him to think about changing etc.

:mad::mad:
You've totally taken me out of context here!

I said he was in the small minority is that he still bears a grudge!
Nothing else was implied!

Dannyboy83

jimmmy wrote: »

I did not get than impression from him . He wrote he " has no problem with the majorty of the people of the Republic of Ireland, nor do i feel threatned by your irish culture and i certinly do not hate it, its just not my culture" unquote. Where did he write "he still holds grudges" ?

SEE THE PART ABOUT BILLY THE TRAITOR ETC!!

Dannyboy83

Go back and read my post please.
The whole thing was about reconciliation.
I didn't tell him to change, I said change is inexorable and then gave my opinion about all the change I see going on around the place.
Some other poster wrote that NI will change over 100 years.

I can't see the gap in your comprehension.

jimmmy

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

SEE THE PART ABOUT BILLY THE TRAITOR ETC!!

I read the part. In answer to someone who made the point " In regards to Sinn Fein, it isn't a catholic party. There are political members from a Protestant background. Billy Leonard MLA, was a former RUC reserve constable." junder merely wrote " billy leornard merely an exception (and traitor in my eyes) ". What part of that do you not understand ? Do you think billy leornard was an exception or not ? Do you think Billy Leonard leaving the police force and joining a party which condoned ( and which on occassion had members involved in ) murdering his ex-colleagues , the police force of a democratically elected government, was a traitor to his ex-colleagues or not ? If you were a member of the security forces during the troubles, would you have been happy with someone who presumably knew the names , addresses and details of many security force personel joining the Republican movement ? The same party he joined, even after all these years since he joined, still has IRA t-shirts for sale on its website.

Anyway , Dannyboy83, as you are shouting now, with no need to do so, I am not answering your posts on this thread again, thank you.

Can'tseeme

jimmmy wrote: »

I read the part. In answer to someone who made the point " In regards to Sinn Fein, it isn't a catholic party. There are political members from a Protestant background. Billy Leonard MLA, was a former RUC reserve constable." junder merely wrote " billy leornard merely an exception (and traitor in my eyes) ". What part of that do you not understand ? Do you think billy leornard was an exception or not ? Do you think Billy Leonard leaving the police force and joining a party which condoned ( and which on occassion had members involved in ) murdering his ex-colleagues , the police force of a democratically elected government, was a traitor to his ex-colleagues or not ? If you were a member of the security forces during the troubles, would you have been happy with someone who presumably knew the names , addresses and details of many security force personel joining the Republican movement ? The same party he joined, even after all these years since he joined, still has IRA t-shirts for sale on its website.

Just to add, Billy Leonard didn't just walk out of the RUC and sign up to the republican movement. The PIRA ceasefire was in 1994, Billy Leonard was a member of the SDLP for many years till he came disillusioned with the party. He became a Sinn Fein councillor around 2004.

Rather than just call him a traitor, why not listen to his journey which took him to join Sinn fein. Me and a friend of mine, who is a from a unionist background went to a talk he did which was part of the West Belfast festival. He talked about collusion which he witnessed first hand and how widespread it was. He talked about his feelings on the republican military campaign and on his reasons for leaving the SDLP. Very interesting

Dannyboy83

Anyway , Dannyboy83, as you are shouting now, with no need to do so, I am not answering your posts on this thread again, thank you.

Fair enough mate.

I just can't understand why you persist in saying I implied 1 thing when I clarified twice that I didn't intend to say that.

Go back and read all of your posts.
You're taking some unnecessary stance in defence of Junder when nobody is attacking him, they are trying to say we've all moved on.

I don't get it mate.

jimmmy

Can'tseeme wrote: »

He talked about collusion which he witnessed first hand and how widespread it was.

And you believed him ? Rather than the tens of thousands of his ex-colleagues ?

Can'tseeme wrote: »

He talked about his feelings on the republican military campaign ....

lol

Dannyboy83

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Agreed, some people from the other side of the border also need to realise that we're not up here battering each other. My brother in law would be classed as a unionist but we all get on fine. I've friends from different backgrounds and get on fine.

How much more reconciliatory can you get that that?
Not much in my opinion.

Perhaps I've missed something.
Junder will explain

jimmmy

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Fair enough mate.

I just can't understand why you persist in saying I implied 1 thing when I clarified twice that I didn't intend to say that.

Go back and read all of your posts.

I will explain one more time Dannyboy ; you did say something which I had a good point on . This was your post no. 65, timed at 03.47. However, you have since edited this post at 16.19 today to say something else.

My posts are as I wrote them : I do not go back and edit them 12 hours later.

I have no wish to argue or fight with anyone. We all have friends from different backgrounds and get on fine.

jimmmy

NB Dannyboy, thanks for editing / changing another post, and now using lower case instead of CAPITAL letters for it all. Its nice to be reconciliatory and I wish to be too.

Dannyboy83

jimmmy wrote: »

NB Dannyboy, thanks for editing / changing another post, and now using lower case instead of CAPITAL letters for it all. Its nice to be reconciliatory and I wish to be too.

Yea, thats fair enough mate.
The reason i edited the thread was because you said you wouldn't respond to me as I was shouting.
The reason I was shouting was because you persisted in putting words in my mouth, thats why I originally wrote in capitals to emphasise the 2nd time.

I didn't change whatever post you quoted to change the content or the sentiment, only to clarify my point, as the rest of the people reading through the thread would think I was some kind of arsehole if they misunderstood me as you did.

To be specific - this is what I added to the post I edited : (IN THAT YOU STILL BEAR GRUDGES************* NO OTHER MINORITY IS IMPLIED)

The reason for this is because the last time there was a NI thread about the police man murdered in NI, I wrote about a potential civil war between the RIRA and the PIRA, and everyone afterward seemed to think I was suggesting a civil war in Northern Ireland so I had to go back and clarify that too.
To be fair, I suppose I should start giving reasoning for my edits.

Your persistence in attributing something false to me was out of order but so was my shouting/emphasis to be fair so I think it'll be better off if I just step out of the thread now mate and let you gents get on with it.

Apologies and no harm intended,
Cheers,
Dan

jimmmy

No harm done. I have said everything I wanted to on this thread so will not post on this thread anymore either. Cheers.

junder

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

How much more reconciliatory can you get that that?
Not much in my opinion.

Perhaps I've missed something.
Junder will explain

i guess your right i must be the only one is has not got over the past, thats why all the peace walls are coming down and we are all living in intergrated communitys in northern ireland

Can'tseeme

jimmmy wrote: »

And you believed him ? Rather than the tens of thousands of his ex-colleagues ?




lol

lol.

Mate the evidence is there about collusion. There's plenty of books on it. Have a check on line, it's pretty frightening what was going on and what has been covered up. Plenty of loyalists have admitted being in the control of special branch, recieving information on Catholic sollictors, businessmen, etc. So I think it's a bit much to say that he's probably lying. Even the British government and Hugh Orde has admitted it was going on. Here's just a couple of reports.

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/northernireland/Hain-admits-murders-report-is.3339981.jp

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article436242.ece

Let's all hope these days are behind us and we can look forward to a new era of accountable policing for all communities.

Can'tseeme

junder wrote: »

i guess your right i must be the only one is has not got over the past, thats why all the peace walls are coming down and we are all living in intergrated communitys in northern ireland

You're not mate. There's alot of people who've suffered and it's going to take time to try and build bridges. But we'll get there, there's no way back to what happened. But you know yourself, things are getting better.

Svalbard

Isn't it a shame how all these posts descend into tit for tat bickering. I suppose that's just how things are at this point in our history and no-one is to blame.*












*Except Unionists, obviously.

Nodin

jimmmy wrote: »

I read the part. In answer to someone who made the point " In regards to Sinn Fein, it isn't a catholic party. There are political members from a Protestant background. Billy Leonard MLA, was a former RUC reserve constable." junder merely wrote " billy leornard merely an exception (and traitor in my eyes) ". What part of that do you not understand ? Do you think billy leornard was an exception or not ? Do you think Billy Leonard leaving the police force and joining a party which condoned ( and which on occassion had members involved in ) murdering his ex-colleagues , the police force of a democratically elected government, was a traitor to his ex-colleagues or not ? If you were a member of the security forces during the troubles, would you have been happy with someone who presumably knew the names , addresses and details of many security force personel joining the Republican movement ? The same party he joined, even after all these years since he joined, still has IRA t-shirts for sale on its website.

Anyway , Dannyboy83, as you are shouting now, with no need to do so, I am not answering your posts on this thread again, thank you.

Not exactly being even handed in your criticism there.

Can'tseeme

Svalbard wrote: »

Isn't it a shame how all these posts descend into tit for tat bickering. I suppose that's just how things are at this point in our history and no-one is to blame.*












*Except Unionists, obviously.

There is victims and blame on all sides. Republicans/nationalists, Unionists, British Army, Irish Government, RUC, Loyalists, British Government, were ALL involved. So therefore it was up to all of them to work out a way forward. All being well, they've been sucessful enough to have achieved it. It 's also impotant that they except their responsibility and that the truth of what happen over the conflict years is disclosed on all sides. So people can try and find some kind of closure, a better understanding of what happened, why it happened so it never ever happens again.

junder

Can'tseeme wrote: »

You're not mate. There's alot of people who've suffered and it's going to take time to try and build bridges. But we'll get there, there's no way back to what happened. But you know yourself, things are getting better.

Yes things are getting better but don't expect reconcillation over night, as i have already said, it is going to take along time before i trust sinn fein, however aslong as i accept thier mandate and thier right to be in government then my present dislike for sinn fein should not be a issue

junder

Can'tseeme wrote: »

lol.

Mate the evidence is there about collusion. There's plenty of books on it. Have a check on line, it's pretty frightening what was going on and what has been covered up. Plenty of loyalists have admitted being in the control of special branch, recieving information on Catholic sollictors, businessmen, etc. So I think it's a bit much to say that he's probably lying. Even the British government and Hugh Orde has admitted it was going on. Here's just a couple of reports.

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/northernireland/Hain-admits-murders-report-is.3339981.jp

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article436242.ece

Let's all hope these days are behind us and we can look forward to a new era of accountable policing for all communities.

i would not get to cocky there has been quite a few high ranking provies in the pay of special branch as well

Bottle_of_Smoke

junder wrote: »

you can argue all you like about practicalitys but it is of no interest to us, we do not want to be part of a united ireland because we do not see ourselves as irish, courtsey of sinn fein we see irishness, catholisim and republicanism interlinked with each other and excluding us, even on this site i see references to unionists being an alien presence on this island, and of course lets no forget the Loveulster parade in Dublin, a goldern propoganda oppurtunity to destroy the unionist myths about being unwelcome in the RoI ended up in us being chased out of dublin by a baying mob.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said on this thread. Most notably about the practicalities of a UI being irrelevent as unionts simply don't feel Irish and never will. I live in Coleraine and I counld never see this place as being non-British.

However, I think its unfair to use the loveulster parade as an example, the way it was organised was screaming out for every scumbag/ira wannabe chav to address his plastic republican issues by causing havoc. Willie Frazer's had a hard life, no doubt about that, but he's obviously more concerned about driving a wedge between the two main communties on this island than looking for a peaceful resolution.

Can'tseeme

junder wrote: »

i would not get to cocky there has been quite a few high ranking provies in the pay of special branch as well

Nothing cocky about it. The British security forces were up all sorts of stuff. I just wish they'd be a bit more honest about it.

Totally agree btw, the British security forces policy to defeat the PIRA was to infiltrate them. There were definitely british agents in the PIRA.

Can'tseeme

junder wrote: »

Yes things are getting better but don't expect reconcillation over night, as i have already said, it is going to take along time before i trust sinn fein, however aslong as i accept thier mandate and thier right to be in government then my present dislike for sinn fein should not be a issue

I'm the same mate. I'm still not convinced the DUP are working the agreement in the spirit of equality and tolerance for all communities. But the important thing is that they're is an agreement that all the main parties support.

Dannyboy83

We should have another LoveUlster Parade and poison the water supply with marijuana, and distribute copious amounts of marijuana to the public in the form of Happy Meals.:D

If you can't get rid of the family skeleton, you may aswell make it dance

I wouldn't get too bothered about the LoveUlster Parade.
My cousin is a guard in Dublin, and was telling me that on occasion in Finglas, they just have a riot because they have sod all else to do.

If it had been the LoveSteveStaunton parade instead of the LoveUlster parade, the reaction would have been the same.

Now could you imagine if they had the LoveFiannaFail parade................

Dannyboy83

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Nothing cocky about it. The British security forces were up all sorts of stuff. I just wish they'd be a bit more honest about it.

Totally agree btw, the British security forces policy to defeat the PIRA was to infiltrate them. There were definitely british agents in the PIRA.

junder wrote: »

i would not get to cocky there has been quite a few high ranking provies in the pay of special branch as well

And neither of ye ought to get too bothered about collusion.
Thats in the past. Proabably the one thing the RIRA have done is to unite SinnFein & the DUP in defence of the PSNI.

You have to accept that, thats just what the British government do, nothing personal in it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/22/torture-pakistan-human-rights

junder

As it happens i was at the loveulster parade, i did see alot of good dubliners, one lady inperticuler handed me a bunch of orange lilys to apologise for the behaviour of the others, unfortunlty perception is everything and the perception in northern ireland after that was we are not welcome. Moreover i have asked republicans from the RoI on several occasions if the Orange Order that is based in the RoI would be allowed to parade through what is thier captail city and the answer is generlly no

junder

Can'tseeme wrote: »

I'm the same mate. I'm still not convinced the DUP are working the agreement in the spirit of equality and tolerance for all communities. But the important thing is that they're is an agreement that all the main parties support.

It might surprize you to know that i don't like the DUP either, never did fall for the grand old duke of yorks retoric

Can'tseeme

junder wrote: »

As it happens i was at the loveulster parade, i did see alot of good dubliners, one lady inperticuler handed me a bunch of orange lilys to apologise for the behaviour of the others, unfortunlty perception is everything and the perception in northern ireland after that was we are not welcome. Moreover i have asked republicans from the RoI on several occasions if the Orange Order that is based in the RoI would be allowed to parade through what is thier captail city and the answer is generlly no

Junder, what was the loveulster parade for? I ask that as a serious question. I was asking a few boys in work, genuinely can't remember what it was for.

junder

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Junder, what was the loveulster parade for? I ask that as a serious question. I was asking a few boys in work, genuinely can't remember what it was for.

it was to raise the issues of victems in Northern Ireland, it was also to show that we protestants do not have two heads and that our culture was nothing to be a afraid of