MPEG4 Irish DTT: BCI & Launch issues

Mossy Monk

Mayo Exile wrote: »

The trial was a handy way of getting decent RTE pictures if you didn't have access to an external analogue aerial.

That is true but everyone knew it wasn't to last forever.

syboit

reslfj wrote: »

DVB-T2 from November 2009 in the UK (first on 1 out of the 6 UK-multiplexes).

But you may ask, why all viewers in Ireland should be forced to purchase STB to an aging standard - when the hugely better DVB-T2 standard will be available in 12-15 month from now.

Lars

Isint the official rollout going to be dvb-t?, or might we see dual tuners with dvb-t2 aswell ?

byrnefm

John Dough wrote: »

So where are all these new trial boxes then for 1st August 2008 Mpeg 4???

The official research company have not heard of any new boxes .

Does it not seem strange that they test a box with mpeg 2 for 2 years and then decide on mpeg 4 or is it just PR exercise from DCMR.;)

Doesn't Norway use MPEG-4 for DTT? Won't their boxes work here as a result?

marclt

byrnefm wrote: »

Doesn't Norway use MPEG-4 for DTT? Won't their boxes work here as a result?

France use Mpeg 2 for psb services and Mpeg4 for TNTs pay per view service.

Still the cost is going to be an issue and what a waste of hardware! In times where the emphasis is on going green... this isn't very eco-friendly!!

If boxes are expensive, then this isn't going to work - expensive boxes and a subscription if they choose a non freeview service could turn out to be a flop!

reslfj

byrnefm wrote: »

reslfj wrote: »

....replaced by DVB-T2 from November 2009 in the UK (first on 1 out of the 6 UK-multiplexes).

But you may ask, why all viewers in Ireland should be forced to purchase STB to an aging standard - when the hugely better DVB-T2 standard will be available in 12-15 month from now.

Lars

Doesn't Norway use MPEG-4 for DTT? Won't their boxes work here as a result?

DVB-T2 receivers will receive both DVB-T and DVB-T2 signals.

MPEG-4 decompressors will decompress beth MPEG-2 and MPEG-2.
MPEG-4 may or may NOT support HDTV.
DVB-T2 can transport MPEG-2 (but will likely not often do so) and DVB-T can transport MPEG-4 (as they do in Norway,France)

DVB-T cannot receive DVB-T2 nor do a MPEG-2 decompressor understand MPEG-4.
In short .. Newer boxes can replace older, but not the other way around.
(No firmware upgrade can change DVB-T to DVB-T2)

Lars

Terrestrial pay-TV will be difficult in Ireland, as Freesat is everwhere, the programs are in English and they are - Free.

Aerial --> DVB-T/T2 >

---

> MPEG-2/4 >----HDMI/SCART

---

> Flat-screen

gchamp

Hey all. I am starting to get a bit confused reading through all i can find on the DVB system. So I was hoping that someone could clarify a couple of things for me.

I bought the LCD TV with the built in Free View from Aldi a couple of months ago & I am still unable to get a picture using the DVB. I called Tevion & they said that they cold only guarantee this service in Dublin (I live in Enfield, Co Meath) & I should check if it is available where I live.

I can't seem to find out if it is available here or not. The DVB is showing 8 channels with a Signal Strength of 90% & a Quality of 64% but no channel name, Picture or sound & now I am seeing this MPEG4 & MPEG2 which is used in Ireland & Which is used in UK & how do I know which my TV uses

Any HELP would be appreciated

channelsurfer

if its a trial then it will end when its meant to end i.e. july 31st. Budgets are tight and I cant see any more money being made available especially if the winning consortium is announced prior to july 31.

dgently

I'll be very surprised if the four unencrypted domestic channels don't continue to transmit beyond the end of the official trial, switching to MPEG4 at or after that point.

Instead I would expect to see them become available from more masts.

byrnefm

Hi,

I noticed that some of the newer Samsung TVs have MPEG-4 decoders built in, such as this one:

http://www.expansys.ie/d.aspx?i=168038

Would this TV also require an additional decoder for Irish DTT when launched for non-pay TV services, since it decodes MPEG-4? (It has a PCMCIA slot for pay-TV)?

watty

gchamp wrote: »

I bought the LCD TV with the built in FreeView from Aldi a couple of months ago & I am still unable to get a picture using the DVB. I called Tevion & they said that they cold only guarantee this service in Dublin (I live in Enfield, Co Meath) & I should check if it is available where I live.

Any HELP would be appreciated

Freeview is a UK system.

They can't even G'tee this in Dublin as that was/is a closed trial ending end July 2008.

It's likely you will need an external set box.

Aldi & Lidl are great value for groceries. Variable at best for electronics, with some overpriced or poor spec and others really cheap and very good spec.

byrnefm

byrnefm wrote: »

Hi,

I noticed that some of the newer Samsung TVs have MPEG-4 decoders built in, such as this one:

http://www.expansys.ie/d.aspx?i=168038

Would this TV also require an additional decoder for Irish DTT when launched for non-pay TV services, since it decodes MPEG-4? (It has a PCMCIA slot for pay-TV)?

You won't need a stb for those-they will be fine when mpeg4 starts.

I was in the phillips store on the corner of Georges st and Dame st recently and they already had the brochures for the new philips model's out in october november with mpeg 4.
They did not have the pricing yet though.

The Cush

A range of Sony TVs with MPEG-4 are already available - see my previous post

christo82

Mayo Exile wrote: »

The trial was a handy way of getting decent RTE pictures if you didn't have access to an external analogue aerial. Will miss the free premiership footie too.:( Hopefully Scath's scenario proves to be true.

What free Premiership football?

Fingleberries

christo82 wrote: »

What free Premiership football?

If you were part of the Official trial, Sky Sports 1 was on the service.

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

A range of Sony TVs with MPEG-4 are already available - see my previous post

Those have MPEG2 AND MPEG4 ??

Now that is handy for those of us in the southeast who can receive Freeview from Wales and also Mount Leinster.

The philips sets only have MPEG 4

reslfj

Deleted User wrote: »

Those have MPEG2 AND MPEG4 ??

Now that is handy for those of us in the southeast who can receive Freeview from Wales and also Mount Leinster.

The philips sets only have MPEG 4

All MPEG-4 decompressors will decompress MPEG-2, too, but only MPEG-4 HP @ L4 vil decompress HDTV - HD-Ready or not.

If you receive Freeview from the UK there is no need for MPEG-4 without a DVB-T2 receiver.

From DSO - in late 2009 very early 2010 - Wales will transmit 3 HD channels on PSB-3 using DVB-T2 and MPEG-4 HP @ L4

Lars

UK-PSB-3 = current UK-MUX-B (BBC4...)

watty

Only thing I know that does MPEG4 and NOT MPEG2, is artifical. The Archos 605WiFi plays MPEG4 files but wants a €20 licence key to playback MPEG2 content (say straight from sat or PCI card via PC, solution is re-encode as MPEG4).

All MPEG4 tuners will work with MPEG2 also as Lars says.

The Cush

Deleted User wrote: »

Now that is handy for those of us in the southeast who can receive Freeview from Wales and also Mount Leinster.

This Sony range of TVs are also compatible with freeview which uses the MHEG-5 UK Profile, version 1.06 standard for interactive services.
This interactive standard is also a recommended feature of our Minimum Receiver Requirements for DTT in Ireland v1.0 and so should make the reception of interactive services seamless between the two services.

4. Recommended Features
The features in Section 4 are recommended for enhanced receivers.

4.1 Middleware
Support for Data Broadcast Services is a highly recommended feature of the Receiver. If the Receiver supports middleware, the ability to receive and output Data Broadcast Services presented in accordance with the "MHEG-5 UK Profile, version 1.06[17]" is a minimum requirement.

christo82

Fingleberries wrote: »

If you were part of the Official trial, Sky Sports 1 was on the service.

lucky feckers

Big Wex fan

I did a scan for new channels on freeview box & picked up the 4 TV channels & all RTE radio channels on freeview box. Also picked up 2 encrypted channels oireachtas channel & HD test channel(not sure if this is UK or Ireland channel.) Any idea when this is coming in for good and any end of life forecast for analogue?

scath

Big Wex...good idea to read previous posts before q's. Analogue shutdown expected September 30th 2012 in broadcasting bill 2008. Oireachtas TV trial is via Oireachtas team in charge of webcasting. And due to end at end of week unless RTÉ temporarily buy the equipment to broadcast continuously until Oireachtas TV funding structure is enacted in broadcasting bill. I expect that channels will all go MPEG4 on July 22nd, that Sky News, Setanta Ireland will stay and 4 Irish channels and maybe Channel 6 goes til they apply for DTT license and radio stations will stay and BBC goes cos it wants royalty payments despite freesat. These would be subscription based and only paid for til August 31st. So part will probably go but I understand from the guy at the laptop shop that the fta ones will continue. BBC who knows? I wonder have they sorted out programme rights yet. That'll help matters.

I've suggested to the broadcasters European channel genres of existing member state broadcasters programming genre x1 for psb's x2 for commercial broadcasters with non-english translated like Euronews ie multi-lingual. Genres 1&2, EuroDrama, EuroPolitics & Documentary, EuroFilm. Broadcaster gets advert revenue during its programme. Content already exists, just need to translate over and pool & arrange EU wide carriage. Euronews and Eurosports exist covering news, sport and culture. These could be interesting to viewers.

Same should happen for parliament channels. Also European parliament/commission channel is priority given no vote. Think a EU lisbon voter census is way for government to go to get Lisbon 2 right in terms of opt-outs.Eu tube not enough given broadband coverage

Of course the above apart from EU TV and radio only good for cable and satellite as not capacity on DTT even with T2. I think Oireachtas Radio on LW and DAB would be as good sense as TV.

mburke

What areas can currently pick up the trial, is it just Dublin ?
After July 31st if the 4 main channels stay on shall the area of coverage for availability of the channels increase or is it a case of wait and see ?

e17

Probably Mt leinster if you are in the South East other than that DTT is only on from 3 Rock in Dublin or Clermont in Co louth

Big Wex fan wrote: »

I did a scan for new channels on freeview box & picked up the 4 TV channels & all RTE radio channels on freeview box. Also picked up 2 encrypted channels oireachtas channel & HD test channel(not sure if this is UK or Ireland channel.) Any idea when this is coming in for good and any end of life forecast for analogue?

zanardi

From RTE yesterday:

"Mary Finan also said she hoped that when the new digital television system is introduced, more Northern viewers will get greater access to RTÉ signals."

Has nobody told the authority chairman about the mpeg4 decision yet?

givecredit

zanardi wrote: »

From RTE yesterday:

"Mary Finan also said she hoped that when the new digital television system is introduced, more Northern viewers will get greater access to RTÉ signals."

Has nobody told the authority chairman about the mpeg4 decision yet?

Whats to stop someone in Northern Ireland from buying a mpeg4 receiver??

watty

No more and maybe less than stopping us buying FreeSat boxes

It's fairly meaningless. Unless analogue in N.I. is turned off and more Digital Mux added and Irish channels carried in NI, more NI people won't get Irish TV.

who is this

givecredit wrote: »

Whats to stop someone in Northern Ireland from buying a mpeg4 receiver??

Exactly. Who pays for RTÉ's construction costs for this? Licence payers. Are viewers in NI paying it. Nope. So, I'm not suggesting we block them out intentionally, but I see no reason we should hold back until Freeview switches to MPEG4, just for their sake.

But anyway, if I'm not mistaken, our terrestrial services aren't supposed to overspill to provide RTÉ. I heard somewhere that after analogue shutdown in NI, RTÉ will be carried on Freeview. Hopefully with NI-targeted ads (that way at least we won't just be paying for it entirely)

Making our whole DTT service available there could be costly to private channels who would then have to buy rights for all of Ireland while getting ad-revenue for only RoI (since the ads would be targeted at RoI).

tdlynch

zanardi wrote: »

From RTE yesterday:

"Mary Finan also said she hoped that when the new digital television system is introduced, more Northern viewers will get greater access to RTÉ signals."

Has nobody told the authority chairman about the mpeg4 decision yet?

This quote puzzles me. The Irish broadcasters do not have the right to transmit to the North: UTV can't be happy with RTE broadcasting the Champions League when they've paid for the rights.

I wonder if this is the motivation behind the MPEG-4 over MPEG-2 decision (or indeed the VHF over UHF decision many moons ago)...

And the authority chairman should know better!

Zaphod

zanardi wrote: »

From RTE yesterday:

"Mary Finan also said she hoped that when the new digital television system is introduced, more Northern viewers will get greater access to RTÉ signals."

Has nobody told the authority chairman about the mpeg4 decision yet?

It's hard to tell if she was misquoted or mistaken, but viewers in NI will have access to additional channels when mpeg4 is rolled out there - OFCOM have already stated that TG4 will be available on Freeview.

tdlynch wrote: »

This quote puzzles me. The Irish broadcasters do not have the right to transmit to the North: UTV can't be happy with RTE broadcasting the Champions League when they've paid for the rights.

I wonder if this is the motivation behind the MPEG-4 over MPEG-2 decision

No.

STB

Lots of disinformation in this thread! I especially love these posts attributed to the guy from the laptop shop!

RTE have posted the info quite clearly on the NL website.

The trial as we know it (or as those on the trial know it) will come to an end at the end of this month. That means no more SKY Sports 1, Channel 6 etc as was provided in encrypted format as part of the trial epg.

Future broadcasting on DTT will be MPEG4 using MHEG5 middleware for the interactive elements. People who had the trial boxes will be able to use them still as they are MPEG4 receivers. Obviously, PSB channels will not be encrypted.

It is therefore important that when you go walk into a retail store to buy a new TV that you remember that

• LCD's/TV's that have MPEG2 tuners will not be able to pick up free to air digital signals after 31/7/07, so please dont buy one. Otherwise you will have to buy a seperate STB for the free to air services.

• Freeview boxes are of no use in Southern Ireland for Irish DTT services as Freeview boxes are MPEG2 which is not compatible.

From what I hear, RTE will recommence broadcasting on DTT within a few days of the official shutdown of the trial. That recommencement will be in MPEG4 and will be the PSB channels, but will be subject to interuption as RTE upgrade and put in place DTT transmission facilities throughout the country. Keep an eye on http://digitaltelevision.ie as I would imagine that announcements must be due here soon given the trial end.

Overspill is nothing new, due to it being a small island, infact 71% of people in N ireland can receive RTE at present on analogue. http://www.ofcom.org.uk/research/cm/cmrnr08/nireland/

UTV is also free to air on the other side of the border as watty has pointed out.

Freesat signals are also generally receivable in Ireland.