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Garda Recruitment - Applying to join An Garda Siochana

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    #3902
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    Fegten wrote: »

    Candidates must be between 18 and 35 years of age and must pass an exacting medical exam. Candidates must be of good mental and bodily health and free from any defect or abnormality likely to interfere with the efficient performance of their duties. The requirement to be of a specific height has been removed and replaced with a physical competency test.


    Are they allowed to discriminate against someone with a mental health problem ?


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    #3903
    mycro89
    Registered Users Posts: 560 ✭✭✭mycro89


    If anyone has a link to an application form for the previous campaigns can they please pm.

    Regards,
    Mycro


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    #3904
    SonnyB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭SonnyB


    Jumboman wrote: »
    Are they allowed to discriminate against someone with a mental health problem ?

    In this day and age "mental health" issues are such a broad sensitive field - In my honest opinion, and I am sure this is under the guidance of "The Employment Equality Act, 1998" and the Equal Status Act, 2000, anyone suffering from mild depression, anxiety etc etc shouldn't be discriminated against for the upcoming competition, there again that's just my opinion and I feel they would be just as good a Guard as any..


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    #3905
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    Fegten wrote: »
    In this day and age "mental health" issues are such a broad sensitive field - In my honest opinion, and I am sure this is under the guidance of "The Employment Equality Act, 1998" and the Equal Status Act, 2000, anyone suffering from mild depression, anxiety etc etc shouldn't be discriminated against for the upcoming competition, there again that's just my opinion and I feel they would be just as good a Guard as any..

    What if the person in question is a paranoid schizophrenic ? Can they be discriminated against ?


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    #3906
    SonnyB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭SonnyB


    Jumboman wrote: »
    What if the person in question is a paranoid schizophrenic ? Can they be discriminated against ?

    I'd imagine no they cant, but would more than likey be deemed unfit during the medical. Then the question arises, is a person with such an illness suited to the role as a Garda and I say that with the utmost respect for those who suffer from paranoid schizophrnia.


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    #3907
    Section_4
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Section_4


    Jumboman wrote: »
    Are they allowed to discriminate against someone with a mental health problem ?

    Eliminating a potential candidate from a competition on the advice of an independent medical expert is not discrimination.

    If the medical expert deems an existing mental health issue is likely to negatively impact on a candidates capability to satisfactorily perform the requisite tasks and duties required of a member of AGS the candidate will be deemed medically unfit for duty and bared from advancing in the competition.

    Similarly if the medical practitioner believes that a candidates mental health issue is likely to be exacerbated due to the nature of work in AGS then they will recommend that the candidate does not proceed any further in the competition.

    This is not discrimination, it is a medical assessment of candidates suitability for employment in AGS and is presented with achieving the best overall outcome for the organisation and it's members collectively, not those of the candidate.

    The same medical assesment for determining suitibility applies to and rules out candidates with physical inparments such as those missing an eye, being in a wheel chair, missing fingers and so forth.

    I am not looking to debate the morality of such rules, just clarifying the answers given to you this far.


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    #3908
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    Jumboman wrote: »
    Are they allowed to discriminate against someone with a mental health problem ?

    I wouldn't classify it as discrimination to be honest. But just to use that word for handiness, they also discriminate as follows:
    1. You won't get in with one leg
    2. You won't get in with one arm
    3. You won't get in if your eyesight is below a certain level
    4. same for hearing
    5. same for a myriad of physical conditions

    If a pre-existing condition that you have may impact on the type of service and the quality of service you can provide then you are not going to be deemed fit to be a member. This applies to mental or physical issues and is legitimate and only right


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    #3909
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    Section_4 wrote: »

    This is not discrimination,


    It is by definition discrimination

    http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/discrimination?showCookiePolicy=true

    1. unfair treatment of a person, racial group, minority, etc; action based on prejudice
    2. subtle appreciation in matters of taste
    3. the ability to see fine distinctions and differences
    4. (electronics) the selection of a signal having a particular frequency, amplitude, phase, etc, effected by the elimination of other signals by means of a discriminator


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    #3910
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    Jumboman wrote: »
    It is by definition discrimination

    http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/discrimination?showCookiePolicy=true

    1. unfair treatment of a person, racial group, minority, etc; action based on prejudice
    2. subtle appreciation in matters of taste
    3. the ability to see fine distinctions and differences
    4. (electronics) the selection of a signal having a particular frequency, amplitude, phase, etc, effected by the elimination of other signals by means of a discriminator

    junior cert results day - conversation between two adults:
    Person 1: "God, I remember back in my day doing the junior cert, seems so long ago now, do you ever miss school?"

    Person 2: "By school, do you mean 'an institution or building at which children and young people usually under 19 receive education' or do you mean 'a group of porpoises or similar aquatic animals that swim together'?"


    Hmm context is everything as it appears is misplaced Pedantry and smart assery


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    #3911
    Canyon86
    Registered Users Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭Canyon86


    With the amount of applicants AGS will be looking at any reason for excluding candidates unfortunately,

    Something I am worried about myself lol

    Nobody knows anything being honest


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    #3912
    thekopend
    Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭thekopend


    Jumboman wrote: »
    It is by definition discrimination

    http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/discrimination?showCookiePolicy=true

    1. unfair treatment of a person, racial group, minority, etc; action based on prejudice
    2. subtle appreciation in matters of taste
    3. the ability to see fine distinctions and differences
    4. (electronics) the selection of a signal having a particular frequency, amplitude, phase, etc, effected by the elimination of other signals by means of a discriminator

    Call it what you want but the AGS are allowed to, and will exclude people from recruitment for numerous reasons and rightly so! It's due to the nature of the job and the demands the gardai are put to. If the candidates health or whatever prevents them from doing that job to the highest standard (which is what they will want from now on) they will be cut. If you don't like that fact don't apply.


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    #3913
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    thekopend wrote: »
    Call it what you want but the AGS are allowed to, and will exclude people from recruitment for numerous reasons and rightly so! It's due to the nature of the job and the demands the gardai are put to. If the candidates health or whatever prevents them from doing that job to the highest standard (which is what they will want from now on) they will be cut. If you don't like that fact don't apply

    .

    If they want the job done to the highest standard they would not have dropped the height restriction. 5ft4 (or less) gardas are a joke. The security guys on the luas are bigger than the average garda.


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    #3914
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    Jumboman wrote: »
    If they want the job done to the highest standard they would not have dropped the height restriction. 5ft4 (or less) gardas are a joke. The security guys on the luas are bigger than the average garda.

    height does not equal ability and strength.


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    #3915
    thekopend
    Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭thekopend


    Jumboman wrote: »
    If they want the job done to the highest standard they would not have dropped the height restriction. 5ft4 (or less) gardas are a joke. The security guys on the luas are bigger than the average garda.

    Well it's not all about your height, it's about what your made of. The job isn't all physically either you know, maybe only 5% depending where you are based.


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    #3916
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    Uriel. wrote: »
    height does not equal ability and strength.

    I didnt say it does. But all things been equal a tall garda will do the job better.
    If you have a 6ft garda or 5ft4 garda walking the streets which one do you think the average scumbag will respect more ?

    Like on the luas the big security guys give an air of authority.


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    #3917
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    Jumboman wrote: »
    I didnt say it does. But all things been equal a tall garda will do the job better.
    If you have a 6ft garda or 5ft4 garda walking the streets which one do you think the average scumbag will respect more ?

    That's fine, if the recruitment process was lining people up against the wall and picking on the basis of height but it's not. There are multitudes of skills and ability that various people bring to the table. There is a need for modern police forces to move towards intelligent policing and not brute force.

    I'd wager most scum won't respect the Garda either way to be honest. Physical training, self defence and arrest/subdue skills are provided in TM


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    #3918
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    Jumboman wrote: »
    What if the person in question is a paranoid schizophrenic ? Can they be discriminated against ?

    It's not discrimination to be deemed unfit for a particular occupation. I'm sure that Health and Safety would not allow a person who is paranoid and schizophrenic to be put in a position where they would have access to firearm.


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    #3919
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    Jumboman wrote: »
    I didnt say it does. But all things been equal a tall garda will do the job better.
    If you have a 6ft garda or 5ft4 garda walking the streets which one do you think the average scumbag will respect more ?

    Like on the luas the big security guys give an air of authority.

    In the US small police are always accompanied by their friends, Smith and Wesson. That's what the small Irish guards are lacking


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    #3920
    therealdeal23
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 11 ✭therealdeal23


    Jumboman wrote: »
    There is a lot of Nepotism in the garda if you have a family member already in the force your a shoe in.

    not really unless your family member is rank from Commissioner down to Chief Supt then they can pull strings..I believe nepotism will be rampant in this campaign and many more till economy is strong,if ever strong again.senior gardai,civil servants,govt ministers will be inundated with queries for 'help' getting in.there's a house in my area ive dubbed 'templemore' dad is a senior garda all his offsrping are all gardai..another one is recruitment age and surprisingly hes optimitistic of been successful in next campaign :rolleyes:


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    #3921
    adrian2
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭adrian2


    Yeah this is the reality that faces anyone who
    does not have pull going into this campaign. The fact is though while I agree that it's wrong
    the majority if not all of us would do the same of we were to have senior gardai as parents uncles
    etc. It's a problem that is systemic within ags and Ireland alike,possibly globally too if we are being realistic. I am not holding any great hopes of entrance in this campaign,even though I attempt to remain optimistic


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    #3922
    Canyon86
    Registered Users Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭Canyon86


    adrian2 wrote: »
    Yeah this is the reality that faces anyone who
    does not have pull going into this campaign. The fact is though while I agree that it's wrong
    the majority if not all of us would do the same of we were to have senior gardai as parents uncles
    etc. It's a problem that is systemic within ags and Ireland alike,possibly globally too if we are being realistic. I am not holding any great hopes of entrance in this campaign,even though I attempt to remain optimistic


    Agreed


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    #3923
    Canyon86
    Registered Users Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭Canyon86


    opinions?

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-recruits-to-be-put-on-beat-after-32-weeks-training-29611588.html


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    #3924
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,729 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Canyon86 wrote: »
    opinions?

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-recruits-to-be-put-on-beat-after-32-weeks-training-29611588.html

    Policy Academy springs to mind! Y'know the bit at the end where the new recruits are brought out to "help" with the rioting
    Have to agree with the above comments too re nepotism. It's not supposed to be a jobs for the son/daughter/nephew/niece etc club but that's what it is!

    No wonder the "quality" of the force is so low and those that DO take the job and responsibility it carries seriously are all too often overshadowed by the "other types".

    Our police force needs a top to bottom clean-out and reform, not "more of the same"


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    #3925
    senordingdong
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    Canyon86 wrote: »
    opinions?

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-recruits-to-be-put-on-beat-after-32-weeks-training-29611588.html

    Standard practice in most jobs. Get the moneys worth of cheap labour out of the newbies.


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    #3926
    therealdeal23
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 11 ✭therealdeal23


    adrian2 wrote: »
    Yeah this is the reality that faces anyone who
    does not have pull going into this campaign. The fact is though while I agree that it's wrong
    the majority if not all of us would do the same of we were to have senior gardai as parents uncles
    etc. It's a problem that is systemic within ags and Ireland alike,possibly globally too if we are being realistic. I am not holding any great hopes of entrance in this campaign,even though I attempt to remain optimistic

    nepotism is wrong but its human nature your always going to help a family member/friend out over a stranger..I know of one place that will be gone if he passes aptitude test and I hope he doesnt eventhough he's a friend..how many other examples are there out there of places already gone??
    There is six years of people with strong connections waiting to apply for next campaign,I believe it will be the most unfair campaign there ever was.
    People who spend their time sitting on their hands getting in ahead of people who upskilled..


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mcguinnesss-son-claimed-22-weeks-of-overtime-in-a-year-29474508.html


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    #3927
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    What does anyone think of this course?
    http://www.citycolleges.ie/wp/diploma-in-policing-studies/
    It's only 1 evening a week for 10 weeks .
    It calls itself a diploma - but it seems failrly basic stuff
    Would it be a waste of money ?


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    #3928
    carzony
    Registered Users Posts: 2,780 ✭✭✭carzony


    Ogham wrote: »
    What does anyone think of this course?
    http://www.citycolleges.ie/wp/diploma-in-policing-studies/
    It's only 1 evening a week for 10 weeks .
    It calls itself a diploma - but it seems failrly basic stuff
    Would it be a waste of money ?
    I think that's similar to what you'd get in Templemore isn't it? no point if that's the case


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    #3929
    danish pasterys
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭danish pasterys


    Ogham wrote: »
    What does anyone think of this course?
    http://www.citycolleges.ie/wp/diploma-in-policing-studies/
    It's only 1 evening a week for 10 weeks .
    It calls itself a diploma - but it seems failrly basic stuff
    Would it be a waste of money ?


    Of course its a waste of money omg 800 euro, what are you gonna learn in ten classes? and most of all is this course gonna get ya a job dont think so, I wouldnt mind if it gauranteed you a recruitment interveiw but it dosent even do that just another money scam believe me. I did a one year plc course in security studies which was aimed for garda recruitment and has got me nowhere, pls dont waste your money

    Dosent cost anything to join the reserves that would look better on your application


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    #3930
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    carzony wrote: »
    I think that's similar to what you'd get in Templemore isn't it? no point if that's the case

    How can a 30 hour course be the same as a 2 year course ??
    http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=181&Lang=1


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    #3931
    thekopend
    Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭thekopend


    Ogham wrote: »
    How can a 30 hour course be the same as a 2 year course ??
    http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=181&Lang=1

    That's just it. It can't be the same. There only trying to spin money out of next campaign. It won't have any relevance. At the end of the day any fool can do that course and come out the end of it still a fool. A day course that prepares for the real thing is the only thing worth spending money on IMO


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