Prostitution

g5fd6ow0hseima

Deleted User wrote: »

And that's your choice, and your perception on life. Other people feel different. I don't see a problem with prostitution, seeing it as just another service... like getting a massage, or going to a spa for relaxation.

As for degradation, that's completely up to the women involved and how they deal with the choice they made in turning to prostitution as a way to make money. If they are unhappy doing it, its still an option to get out and do something else. If they're ok with doing it, then they're unlikely to feel degraded by doing it.

Personally, i think the degradation aspect only comes in from people judging those who work in this industry.

Its an industry riddled with exploitation / traffiking. In a perfect world, I would say yeah. But its a greedy indulgent world we live in, and the reality is that plenty of the prostitutes operating on our shores arent doing so out of ambition. Look at the recent case of the disappearance of a 18yr old romanian girl in Dublin - most likely reason for disappance was that she refused to become a prostitute in Dublin.

As Kevin Myers recently penned in the indo, there are many men in this country who would do anything for sex. I agree, only those who are desperate go down the road of prostitution, as ive previously mentioned, its cheating life. Much the same as the likes of me going onto lonelyfatbastard.com and hooking up with some sexually starved 38 yr old woman and having this brief, sexual fling would be. Fine, im not assaulting your opinion, but then again, those in desperate situations will always stoop to desperate measures. Thats life I suppose.

If I was starving, id eat rat's ****

AARRRGH

Tori Prickly Landlady wrote: »

if being a prostitute isnt being degraded to the point where a woman is merely a hole, well then I dont know if degradation exists in this world.

What is degrading for one person is acceptable for another.

For example, I don't think prostitution is degrading, but I think working in a poorly paid job is.

We are all entitled to our opinion, but we shouldn't try to make laws based on our own personal moral code. That's why I strongly disagree with criminalising prostitution.

Tori Prickly Landlady wrote: »

Its an industry riddled with exploitation / traffiking. In a perfect world, I would say yeah. But its a greedy indulgent world we live in, and the reality is that plenty of the prostitutes operating on our shores arent doing so out of ambition.

You are actually wrong on this. The prostitutes I know are working as prostitutes because they are ambitious. They don't want to work in crap jobs earning a crap wage giving them a crap lifestyle. They want to be wealthy. Prostitution enables this.

A few of them are going to college during the day, and others run their own business. They are not all desperate junkies.

Tori Prickly Landlady wrote: »

Look at the recent case of the disappearance of a 18yr old romanian girl in Dublin - most likely reason for disappance was that she refused to become a prostitute in Dublin.

That is total speculation. There is no proof whatsoever to back that up.

Tori Prickly Landlady wrote: »

As Kevin Myers recently penned in the indo, there are many men in this country who would do anything for sex. I agree, only those who are desperate go down the road of prostitution, as ive previously mentioned, its cheating life. Much the same as the likes of me going onto lonelyfatbastard.com and hooking up with some sexually starved 38 yr old woman and having this brief, sexual fling would be. Fine, im not assaulting your opinion, but then again, those in desperate situations will always stoop to desperate measures. Thats life I suppose.

A lot of prostitutes are not desperate. I accept you would have to be desperate to do something like that, but not everyone thinks like you. For some people it is an easy way of making money.

g5fd6ow0hseima

AARRRGH wrote: »

What is degrading for one person is acceptable for another.

For example, I don't think prostitution is degrading, but I think working in a poorly paid job is.

We are all entitled to our opinion, but we shouldn't try to make laws based on our own personal moral code. That's why I strongly disagree with criminalising prostitution.




You are actually wrong on this. The prostitutes I know are working as prostitutes because they are ambitious. They don't want to work in crap jobs earning a crap wage giving them a crap lifestyle. They want to be wealthy. Prostitution enables this.

A few of them are going to college during the day, and others run their own business. They are not all desperate junkies.




That is total speculation. There is no proof whatsoever to back that up.




A lot of prostitutes are not desperate. I accept you would have to be desperate to do something like that, but not everyone thinks like you. For some people it is an easy way of making money.

Well, you live in Ireland, not exactly a mini-Thailand of the western world is it. Yes, ive never argued against there being free-willing whores on the streets here, just than many of the worlds prostitutes are in it out of necessity.

I agree with what you say regarding it being an easy way of making money, Greed. You say some own their own business by day and they're out selling their vaginas on the street by night, god thats just so nice to hear isnt it.

I suppose I dont really like the idea of prostitution at all. After taking a stroll down the RLD in amsterdam and watching a fat old 'geeza' walking into a brothel of which the girl standing in the window was what id call more than goodlooking, I sort of pondered, is this right? Nah, humanity ****ed up. When a person starts to sell a bodypart for money in exchange for some old bastards relief of his sexual tendencies, well I have to stop and say where the **** do humans stop and draw the line in their quest for money?

It seems I have too much respect for girls, ie, a girl would have to mean something to me. Clearly, most dont give a ****, 'sex is sex' / 'were all animals' etc. Why dont men just go out, try their luck in a sleezy joint of a nightclub, if it doesnt work, stoop lower to the desperation sites on the net, where they will definetly find likeminded people.

I recently read that with hookers in Amsterdam - one cannot kiss them, or go down on them. Now - if thats not a women being turned into a mere object. I dunno what it is.

I acknowledge that your more than liberal, but I am to a certain extent, only that I favour like minded people when it comes to sexual relations. ****ing some **** who just wants the 200 notes off ya is a thought which sickens me. Dont those who utilise prostitutes not realise deep down there only a ****ing source of money. Thats no way to treat one of the few things (sexual intercourse) that are best about the human lifecycle.

AARRRGH

I don't particularly like it either, but I don't get feelings of disgust like you do.

Why do you think the actions of two consenting adults disgusts you so much?

g5fd6ow0hseima

AARRRGH wrote: »

I don't particularly like it either, but I don't get feelings of disgust like you do.

Why do you think the actions of two consenting adults disgusts you so much?

The lame aspect of it,

no passion / lust / affinity etc.....

AARRRGH

Tori Prickly Landlady wrote: »

The lame aspect of it,

no passion / lust / affinity etc.....

But even if they are ok with that, and are choosing to do it, and are doing it in private where it bothers no one , that still disgusts you?

Tori Prickly Landlady

Tori Prickly Landlady wrote: »

Its an industry riddled with exploitation / traffiking.

Riddled? And you get this from where? There does exist exploitation / traffiking in Ireland, but i've seen nothing to suggest that its anything but minor in comparison to the number of women working in this industry of their own free will and intention.

In a perfect world, I would say yeah. But its a greedy indulgent world we live in, and the reality is that plenty of the prostitutes operating on our shores arent doing so out of ambition.

No, they're working in this industry because they can earn between 150 to 300 euro's per hour, and have a way of life that is different to the mainstream.

Look at the recent case of the disappearance of a 18yr old romanian girl in Dublin - most likely reason for disappance was that she refused to become a prostitute in Dublin.

One case. Not a suggestion that it is so commonplace.

As Kevin Myers recently penned in the indo, there are many men in this country who would do anything for sex.

Anything? Define anything.

I agree, only those who are desperate go down the road of prostitution, as ive previously mentioned, its cheating life. Much the same as the likes of me going onto lonelyfatbastard.com and hooking up with some sexually starved 38 yr old woman and having this brief, sexual fling would be. Fine, im not assaulting your opinion, but then again, those in desperate situations will always stoop to desperate measures. Thats life I suppose.

If I was starving, id eat rat's ****

I'm not insulting your opinion... but...
Why bother write it all?

So its not just prostitution that is wrong but also online dating? Ok. Right.

Tori Prickly Landlady

Tori Prickly Landlady wrote: »

Well, you live in Ireland, not exactly a mini-Thailand of the western world is it. Yes, ive never argued against there being free-willing whores on the streets here, just than many of the worlds prostitutes are in it out of necessity.

Well, your choice of wording does kinda proclaim your attitude towards them... whores? Escorts, prostitutes, hookers, even streetwalkers i can accept but the use of whore just shows a certain... disposition.

I agree with what you say regarding it being an easy way of making money, Greed. You say some own their own business by day and they're out selling their vaginas on the street by night, god thats just so nice to hear isnt it.

Why greed? Its more acceptable that i work 45 hours, and another 15 hours in overtime at the office.. its work. It puts money in the bank.

For women who sell their bodies, they can earn money in large sums, and retire from the industry within a certain period. I've known girls who were using prostitution to fund their time in University while studying Law.

I suppose I dont really like the idea of prostitution at all. After taking a stroll down the RLD in amsterdam and watching a fat old 'geeza' walking into a brothel of which the girl standing in the window was what id call more than goodlooking, I sort of pondered, is this right? Nah, humanity ****ed up. When a person starts to sell a bodypart for money in exchange for some old bastards relief of his sexual tendencies, well I have to stop and say where the **** do humans stop and draw the line in their quest for money?

Sell? Hire more like. Its not selling body parts. i too have been to Amsterdam and i've seen good looking guys go into those places.. is that more acceptable?

It seems I have too much respect for girls, ie, a girl would have to mean something to me. Clearly, most dont give a ****, 'sex is sex' / 'were all animals' etc. Why dont men just go out, try their luck in a sleezy joint of a nightclub, if it doesnt work, stoop lower to the desperation sites on the net, where they will definetly find likeminded people.

Have you ever had a conversation with a prostitute? Seriously.

I recently read that with hookers in Amsterdam - one cannot kiss them, or go down on them. Now - if thats not a women being turned into a mere object. I dunno what it is.

Multiple reasons for this.
1) its unhygienic since saliva carries many germs and viruses which can be transferred to other people.
2) Some prostitutes keep kissing solely for the bf or husbands, which shows a clear distinction between working and a personal life. Most women agree that kissing is actually more intimate and personal than the act of sex.

I acknowledge that your more than liberal, but I am to a certain extent, only that I favour like minded people when it comes to sexual relations. ****ing some **** who just wants the 200 notes off ya is a thought which sickens me. Dont those who utilise prostitutes not realise deep down there only a ****ing source of money. Thats no way to treat one of the few things (sexual intercourse) that are best about the human lifecycle.

sigh... i wouldn't consider you all that liberal if you place strict conditions on everything...

Tori Prickly Landlady

Tori Prickly Landlady wrote: »

The lame aspect of it,

no passion / lust / affinity etc.....

Think of it as a drunken one night stand...

AARRRGH

Deleted User wrote: »

Think of it as a drunken one night stand...

That's the thing I find odd about people's hate of prostitution.

If I go to a bar, get plastered drunk, find a random girl who is also plastered drunk, bring her home and have sex with her (with or without a condom), and then wake up in the morning full of regret... that's socially acceptable.

Or the woman who marrys the rich man so it'll give her a good life... that's socially acceptable too.

But hand over cash for sex? Oh no, you are funding sex trafficking and will get AIDS.

Seems a bit uneven.

AARRRGH

AARRRGH wrote: »

That's the thing I find odd about people's hate of prostitution.

If I go to a bar, get plastered drunk, find a random girl who is also plastered drunk, bring her home and have sex with her (with or without a condom), and then wake up in the morning full of regret... that's socially acceptable.

Or the woman who marrys the rich man so it'll give her a good life... that's socially acceptable too.

But hand over cash for sex? Oh no, you are funding sex trafficking and will get AIDS.

Seems a bit uneven.

that's because most peoples understanding about prostitution comes not from experiencing the industry or ever talking to a prostitute, but rather movies or the newspapers. They take their disapproval from other people without ever considering forming their own based on personal knowledge.

Its funny, because I've known guys (myself included) who meet a girl, go for dinner, buy drinks, and pay for a taxi home with her, have sex, and then pay for another taxi home... spending far more than they would have had with a escort, and having a similar sexual experience. And oddly never calling that girl again, and doing it all over again with another stranger.. But thats much more acceptable...

philologos

Deleted User wrote: »

Its funny, because I've known guys (myself included) who meet a girl, go for dinner, buy drinks, and pay for a taxi home with her, have sex, and then pay for another taxi home... spending far more than they would have had with a escort, and having a similar sexual experience. And oddly never calling that girl again, and doing it all over again with another stranger.. But thats much more acceptable...

Who claims that is acceptable? Surely that is the same, treating a woman as a mere object, and likewise she towards you. I don't see any ethical difference except for the possibility that the prostitute is being coerced or is trafficked.

Armin_Tamzarian

As previously stated, I've never went with a prostitute but I've met quite a few.
From my encounters with them they all seem happy and quite content with what they were doing.
However it would be extremely naive to believe that there aren't plenty of women in Ireland working as prostitutes, be it because they are drug addicts or because they are from poor countries and have been tricked and trapped into prostitution.

Also, some poster made the stereotype of prostituts clients being losers who couldn't pull a girl.
This is definitely not true.
Most of the fellas I know that go to prostitutes pull really nice girls and most have decent girlfriends.
Most of the time they're going off with prostitutes that are much worse looking than their girfriends.

Personally I find the whole idea of going with a prostitute far too seedy and a little sick.
I don't understand my friends doing it so much when they can have no problem getting sex normally.
I think the whole seedy aspect of it appeals to them.
Like Wayne Rooney and that auld slapper he went off with.

Jakkass

Jakkass wrote: »

Who claims that is acceptable?

Well society does. Its called being single and "dating" in many places...

Surely that is the same, treating a woman as a mere object, and likewise she towards you. I don't see any ethical difference except for the possibility that the prostitute is being coerced or is trafficked.

huh? You lost me at the ethical difference part. I figured you'd state an ethical difference before adding the exception, or perhaps i'm reading it wrong.

Armin_Tamzarian

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

Personally I find the whole idea of going with a prostitute far too seedy and a little sick.
I don't understand my friends doing it so much when they can have no problem getting sex normally.
I think the whole seedy aspect of it appeals to them.
Like Wayne Rooney and that auld slapper he went off with.

If you want seedy, you can get seedy. i.e. seedy = very cheap.
If you want quality, you can get quality. i.e. Various escort levels = getting more expensive.
If you want educated & beautiful, you can get it, but it'll be expensive.

In this you get what you pay for, and if you don't, then you haven't done enough research.

In Amsterdam it used to be €50 for a suck and ****. Everything else was charged for. And i mean everything, like taking their clothes off, playing with their breasts etc. Basically this kind of sex is horrible (from my point of view), but its cheap.

In Asia there is something very common. You meet normal girls, pick them up at a nightclub, sleep with them, and then give them a "present" of some money for that dress or coat they want to buy. Its prostitution but at the same time its not. And these being normal women, who will only do this because they're attracted to you. Asia has a very different viewpoint on sex compared to Ireland and the UK.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Deleted User wrote: »

Why greed? Its more acceptable that i work 45 hours, and another 15 hours in overtime at the office.. its work. It puts money in the bank.

Money - well lets remove all the morals I talk about. Whats wrong with a conman? A Hooker prays upon sexual frustration. A conman preys upon gullability etc.....

With controlled prostitution, it is in my view exploiting those who cannot gain sexual happenstance on merit if anything.

Does your mate who sold herself to fund her studies plan on telling her kids in the future / inform partners etc? Informed parents etc?

g5fd6ow0hseima

Deleted User wrote: »

In Asia there is something very common. You meet normal girls, pick them up at a nightclub, sleep with them, and then give them a "present" of some money for that dress or coat they want to buy. Its prostitution but at the same time its not. And these being normal women, who will only do this because they're attracted to you. Asia has a very different viewpoint on sex compared to Ireland and the UK.

Haha - Asia. Your making it sound somewhat respecting. Honesty like - its the pits of humanity (sex tourism). Really, how can you glorify it in such a lighthearted manner.

Tori Prickly Landlady

Tori Prickly Landlady wrote: »

Money - well lets remove all the morals I talk about.

Morals are fine, but they're a personal thing we decide to apply to our own lives. They're not something you throw at other people.

Aye, Money... that thing we all need to survive, and we all want to save so that we can retire one day. We all sell ourselves in certain ways. Previously I would work 8am to 5.30 pm five days a week, with 16 holidays allowed in a year. A escort might work two hours a day, earn three times my weekly pay, and take off half the year as a holiday.

Whats wrong with a conman? A Hooker prays upon sexual frustration.

Rubbish. A hooker offers a service to a market that is always there. i.e. men and women seeking sex. They don't monitor your calls, have surveillance on your home, checking to see when you are the most sexually frustrated, or lonely. Instead it is the customer that finds their number online, in newspapers, or from friends and initiates the request.

With controlled prostitution, it is in my view exploiting those who cannot gain sexual happenstance on merit if anything.

You have a rather strange understanding of this industry, the people who work in it, and the people who pay for these services.

Does your mate who sold herself to fund her studies plan on telling her kids in the future / inform partners etc? Informed parents etc?

I don't know. I doubt it. But then that would be her choice. Just as I don't think i'd tell my children about my sexual experiences before or after i met their mother... Why would i?

Hell, I doubt i would tell my children that i've worked in: a petrol station, a newsagent, a pet food warehouse, Dunnes stores, various office jobs in Ireland, england, and australia and I was also an English teacher in China. Hmm.... its likely I would only tell them about being the english teacher, and the current job.. but the other jobs... why would i feel that its necessary to tell them?

Has your mother told you about her partners before she met your dad? Cause my mum never has to me....

Tori Prickly Landlady

Tori Prickly Landlady wrote: »

Haha - Asia. Your making it sound somewhat respecting. Honesty like - its the pits of humanity (sex tourism). Really, how can you glorify it in such a lighthearted manner.

btw, i was referring to China and Japan. Where in Asia have you been? Seriously I would like to know....

g5fd6ow0hseima

Deleted User wrote: »

btw, i was referring to China and Japan. Where in Asia have you been? Seriously I would like to know....

Oh - well prostitution and Asia = Thailand in most peoples minds. Ive never been, but always pick the brains of those who have been. A cousin has, told me plenty about it, and an old friend's brother. Both were more or less disgusted, and ended getting the quickest flight on to Oz.

Poor rural families with a few sons and no daughters being forced, through poverty, so sending a son to make a living in the sex tourist hotspots. Its not gender confusion in fairness.

Tori Prickly Landlady

Tori Prickly Landlady wrote: »

Oh - well prostitution and Asia = Thailand in most peoples minds. Ive never been, but always pick the brains of those who have been. A cousin has, told me plenty about it, and an old friend's brother. Both were more or less disgusted, and ended getting the quickest flight on to Oz.

so when you said this:

Honesty like - its the pits of humanity (sex tourism). Really, how can you glorify it in such a lighthearted manner.

You had no actual experience of Asia, the culture of the countries nor their traditions? You have no first hand experience of how Chinese, Japanese etc feel about their own sex industries and how they operate?

Do you ever get tired of making judgments on things you have no personal experience of?

Poor rural families with a few sons and no daughters being forced, through poverty, so sending a son to make a living in the sex tourist hotspots. Its not gender confusion in fairness.

And you're right, there are these kind of places. Common sex, and poor people going to the cities to sell themselves to send money home to their parents.... But not from what i said. Let me refresh you as to what i spoke about...

In Asia there is something very common. You meet normal girls, pick them up at a nightclub, sleep with them, and then give them a "present" of some money for that dress or coat they want to buy. Its prostitution but at the same time its not. And these being normal women, who will only do this because they're attracted to you. Asia has a very different viewpoint on sex compared to Ireland and the UK.

Get my drift? Probably not.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Deleted User wrote: »

so when you said this:

Honesty like - its the pits of humanity (sex tourism). Really, how can you glorify it in such a lighthearted manner.

You had no actual experience of Asia, the culture of the countries nor their traditions? You have no first hand experience of how Chinese, Japanese etc feel about their own sex industries and how they operate?

Do you ever get tired of making judgments on things you have no personal experience of?



And you're right, there are these kind of places. Common sex, and poor people going to the cities to sell themselves to send money home to their parents.... But not from what i said. Let me refresh you as to what i spoke about...

In Asia there is something very common. You meet normal girls, pick them up at a nightclub, sleep with them, and then give them a "present" of some money for that dress or coat they want to buy. Its prostitution but at the same time its not. And these being normal women, who will only do this because they're attracted to you. Asia has a very different viewpoint on sex compared to Ireland and the UK.

Get my drift? Probably not.

Just to look at the whole attitudes of sex going by the world's regions, ill quote an example from a Phil Rees book I read a few years back:

Afghan warlords (intertribal conflict, not imvolving the west) have also been payed off with 15yr old virgin boys in the not so distant past (circa 1993). Therefore certain types of homosexuality which are not of acceptance here in the western world exist as a tradition in places like Afghanistan.

So is that right? They feel it is as its entrenched in their culture? So am I an annoyance for voicing opposite opinions?

Tori Prickly Landlady

Tori Prickly Landlady wrote: »

Just to look at the whole attitudes of sex going by the world's regions, ill quote an example from a Phil Rees book I read a few years back:

Afghan warlords (intertribal conflict, not imvolving the west) have also been payed off with 15yr old virgin boys in the not so distant past (circa 1993). Therefore certain types of homosexuality which are not of acceptance here in the western world exist as a tradition in places like Afghanistan.

Relevance? How the hell does the trading of boys as sexual objects relate to prostitution in the west or even Asia?

Rather than throwing in stuff like the above, why not respond to what i actually commented about your post?

So is that right? They feel it is as its entrenched in their culture? So am I an annoyance for voicing opposite opinions?

An annoyance? no, but its the manner that you voice those opinions that raises a few neck hairs. You're negativity about prostitution shows throw with every post, and yet you really know nothing about it.

And personally, i get a wee bit annoyed the way you ignore my own responses to your posts, and throw in something else entirely.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Deleted User wrote: »

Relevance? How the hell does the trading of boys as sexual objects relate to prostitution in the west or even Asia?

Rather than throwing in stuff like the above, why not respond to what i actually commented about your post?



An annoyance? no, but its the manner that you voice those opinions that raises a few neck hairs. You're negativity about prostitution shows throw with every post, and yet you really know nothing about it.

And personally, i get a wee bit annoyed the way you ignore my own responses to your posts, and throw in something else entirely.

It is of little reference, only that sexual views and attitudes differ so much in other regions throughout the world. You were the one who brought asia into our arguement. As its boards.ie, like most others, was discussing prostitution from an Irish point of view. I just mentioned the trading to say that cultures differ beyond belief when crossing regions. You agree with me regarding poverty being a factor, but then you just go and re-quote the more polished side of asian prostitution at the same time. Im not saying all prostitutes are forced into it, but the reality is that most of them are.

What negativity? I see prostitution as the last refuge of humanity. Both those who carry out the service and those who avail of it. You see it as perfectably acceptable. And I did address you on what you said about prostitution in Asia, I said you were glorifing it, mentioning the nicer parts of it. I feel that for the larger part, prostitution in this world is criminal. You know - its immoral in my mind. Although then again, as you lack morals, im sure you respect heroin dealers / loan sharks are they are providing a service to wiling customers.

And just because you know a few whores does that make my arguement irrelevant? Does it take a chat with one for my to have any sort of valid opinion? Is there a such a thing as opinion in your mind? Or is it all about just relating to one's personal experience in the past?

Phototoxin

So, whats my problem i hear you say. Well, my problem is that i think Guys and most people now like to sugar coat the whole thing. Saying that the girls make good money and are saving up for houses, cars, blah blah blah. I think people put the real truth to the very back of their minds. Some of these women are in very desperate situations, some of thes women are sex slaves, kidnapped women kept in brothels

Some are. The 1 prostitute I know personally (not as a client I might add) is doing for they money. She's not poor just want's to make money and have sex.

Since when does exploitation = liberation?

Maybe they are liberated enough so that they can choose to let you exploit them?

How? That doesn't make sense. If sex is not degrading, how is selling it degrading?

Its supposed to be something shared by a couple in love, bypassing it all and just doing it with some random prostitute makes no sense to me and is bypassing love with material wealth. Hence the degrading of love.

If you want educated & beautiful, you can get it, but it'll be expensive.

I can get eduecated and beautiful and its not expensive. My GF loves me regardless of my wealth.

You have no first hand experience of how Chinese, Japanese etc feel about their own swex industries and how they operate?

Japan has an interesting slant on prostitution.. there are bars you can go to where you will be 'rubbed up the right way' and its legal.. but actual prostitution afaik is illegal.

Tori Prickly Landlady

Tori Prickly Landlady wrote: »

It is of little reference, only that sexual views and attitudes differ so much in other regions throughout the world.

But what you introduced was not about different sexual views. It was about passing about human sex slaves.

If you talked about teenagers in Japan, who have sex with guys so that they can buy top model mobile phones, or in Thailand where women will become mistresses of men (both domestic & foreigners) for extra money to supplement their lives, i might agree with the above statement, but you didn't.

you introduced something entirely different, and something incredibly extreme in comparison to normal prostitution.

You were the one who brought asia into our arguement.

And someone else introduced Amsterdam as an example. Was it you?

As its boards.ie, like most others, was discussing prostitution from an Irish point of view. I just mentioned the trading to say that cultures differ beyond belief when crossing regions.[/.quote]

Thats nice, but i and others have spoken about prostitution in other countries because it highlights the somewhat unique perception of this country (and the UK) towards prostitution.

You agree with me regarding poverty being a factor, but then you just go and re-quote the more polished side of asian prostitution at the same time. Im not saying all prostitutes are forced into it, but the reality is that most of them are.

There you go again. You say that not all prostitutes are forced into it, and then discount what you've just said, by throwing in a But they are.... What do you base that opinion on?

What negativity? I see prostitution as the last refuge of humanity. Both those who carry out the service and those who avail of it. You see it as perfectably acceptable. And I did address you on what you said about prostitution in Asia, I said you were glorifing it, mentioning the nicer parts of it. I feel that for the larger part, prostitution in this world is criminal. You know - its immoral in my mind.

Glorifying? I picked one example of my own personal knowledge of how prostitution does occur in Asia. Where have you shown any personal knowledge of this subject? Where have you shown any understanding of the people who become prostitutes or the people who avail of their services? In fact, you've made very little reference where you have formed these opinions, beyond a reference to two friends who went to Thailand.

I agreed with you that poorer people do go to the cities to sell themselves, but have you ever considered the reasons behind that, and the cultural perception of their ways of life? I doubt it.

Although then again, as you lack morals, im sure you respect heroin dealers / loan sharks are they are providing a service to wiling customers.

As I said earlier, I have my own morals and they are a personal thing. Morals are not to be assigned to other people. You seem to believe that if i don't agree with you, then i dont have morals. I just don't believe that my morality should be the same for everyone.

And just because you know a few whores does that make my arguement irrelevant? Does it take a chat with one for my to have any sort of valid opinion? Is there a such a thing as opinion in your mind? Or is it all about just relating to one's personal experience in the past?

Opinion is all very well and good. I hear opinions all the time, and have few problems with them. Because opinions tend to be open-ended, and not basing themselves as fact. You talk about the majority of prostitutes being forced into prostitution. A number of posters have refuted such statements
but you haven't shown anything to suggest that your statement is true.

I don't mind opinions. But i value the opinions of people who have personal experience of a subject over people who have none.

Phototoxin

Dude, please put in who you are quoting from. It helps.

Phototoxin wrote: »

Its supposed to be something shared by a couple in love, bypassing it all and just doing it with some random prostitute makes no sense to me and is bypassing love with material wealth. Hence the degrading of love.

Who says that sex is only supposed to be something shared by a couple in love? The Church? The reason for the dislike is that prostitution doesn't beget children, and in the view of the church the pursuit of children is the only reason a couple should be having sex. we live in a society that still contains remnants of the time when the Church had major control over our lives.

If you are not in love with someone, is it degrading love to have sex with someone? Is it any different to have sex with someone for money compared to having sex with a stranger after a nightclub or bar? Because by your reasoning only love is the reason ever to have sex.

I can get educated and beautiful and its not expensive. My GF loves me regardless of my wealth.

Thats nice. But for many men & women out there they haven't met someone to have a relationship with. Many reasons have already been put forward in this thread...

Out of curiosity, how long did you and your gf wait before having sex with each other? Until you both were sure of your love for each other....?

Japan has an interesting slant on prostitution.. there are bars you can go to where you will be 'rubbed up the right way' and its legal.. but actual prostitution afaik is illegal.

Hostess bars. Yes, sit & talk with women, and there is no sex involved. The Windmill in London has a similar feature, although it includes lapdancing as well. Prostitution is indeed illegal, but its mostly ignored. Its the asian way of dealing with it. They see it as necessary but wont acknowledge it. Hence it being illegal but the major trade that exists in Japan.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Deleted User wrote: »

Dude, please put in who you are quoting from. It helps.



Who says that sex is only supposed to be something shared by a couple in love? The Church? The reason for the dislike is that prostitution doesn't beget children, and in the view of the church the pursuit of children is the only reason a couple should be having sex. we live in a society that still contains remnants of the time when the Church had major control over our lives.

If you are not in love with someone, is it degrading love to have sex with someone? Is it any different to have sex with someone for money compared to having sex with a stranger after a nightclub or bar? Because by your reasoning only love is the reason ever to have sex.



Thats nice. But for many men & women out there they haven't met someone to have a relationship with. Many reasons have already been put forward in this thread...

Out of curiosity, how long did you and your gf wait before having sex with each other? Until you both were sure of your love for each other....?



Hostess bars. Yes, sit & talk with women, and there is no sex involved. The Windmill in London has a similar feature, although it includes lapdancing as well. Prostitution is indeed illegal, but its mostly ignored. Its the asian way of dealing with it. They see it as necessary but wont acknowledge it. Hence it being illegal but the major trade that exists in Japan.

Ok Klaz, I dont know any personally so my view doesnt count in your eyes. You remind me of old men in a pub saying 'what does george hook know about rugby, he never played **** all' etc.... I basically have to see it with my own two eyes for me to have any sort of a meaningful say then. Why so? It fails to make sense. Its common knowledge that Thailand and the likes are filthy places.

Prostitution, like drug dealing, is simply capitalising on those who are in weaker / vulnerable positions. Prostitution is as much exploitation of whores as it is the pathetic folk who avail of the service.

So, we'll stick to morality for the minute. Heroin dealers / loan sharks as ive previously said. Arent they providing a service to customers, in line with the whole supply and demand idea? Surely if a women going out and whoring herself for financial gain is okay then a young college student buying a few grams of coke and selling it on at house partys is okay too. Wouldnt it fund his / her studies?

And too side with phototoxin, sex is something to be shared between two loving people in my opinion. To you, as it seems from what im reading, sex is just a commodity, which has no significance rather than the fact that it can be viewed as something as pathetic as a soruce of money. You must be just another idoliser of money I guess.....

Tori Prickly Landlady

Tori Prickly Landlady wrote: »

Ok Klaz, I dont know any personally so my view doesnt count in your eyes. You remind me of old men in a pub saying 'what does george hook know about rugby, he never played **** all' etc.... I basically have to see it with my own two eyes for me to have any sort of a meaningful say then. ]/quote]

Yup. But this isn't like rugby which is something completely exposed to society on a daily basis. This is something which is mostly hidden from public exposure beyond the occasional advertising in newspapers, or on the internet.

Why so? It fails to make sense. Its common knowledge that Thailand and the likes are filthy places.

Common knowledge that certain areas are filthy places. That certain areas promote the lower end of prostitution. Just as there are areas in Thailand where the prostitution is more refined and of a much different kind. But you wouldn't be interested in that. All prostitution is seedy and dodgy in your eyes... yes?

Prostitution, like drug dealing, is simply capitalising on those who are in weaker / vulnerable positions.

Firstly I assume you're talking about addictive drugs like Hereoin and such, since the purchase of non-addictive drugs like cannabis are completely at the whims of the person who buys the drug. The sale of Addictive drugs is wrong in my eyes, but i'm quite happy to have a joint every few months or so to relax.

It is only if you are selling something that is addictive that you are capitalising on those who are in weaker / vulnerable positions. People go to prostitutes of their own free will, and there is nothing to force them to go back again. Cigarettes are more addictive and capitalising...

Prostitution is as much exploitation of whores as it is the pathetic folk who avail of the service.

Again, very few prostitutes in Ireland are forced into the industry... but outside of these few, its hardly exploitation when they have other options of work, they earn far more than the average person, and work fewer hours...

As for the pathetic folk who go there? You really are a nasty piece of work aren't you? You continue to show a complete lack of understanding and sympathy for anybody outside your sphere of approval.

So, we'll stick to morality for the minute. Heroin dealers / loan sharks as ive previously said. Arent they providing a service to customers, in line with the whole supply and demand idea?

Why do you match up Heroin dealers & loan sharks? I'm a credit controller... Do you know what that is? I collect money for companies from other companies and people. Sometimes when people dont pay i instigate legal proceedings against them either for the products involved or the monies due on the services they received. So i understand what it is to offer loans to people, who just dont pay. So I'm not really finding all that sympathy in me for your loan shark aspect. The Dealer I find reprehensible, since i find heroin to be a particularly horrible drug after seeing addicts in the past.

Surely if a women going out and whoring herself for financial gain is okay then a young college student buying a few grams of coke and selling it on at house partys is okay too. Wouldnt it fund his / her studies?

No, because the sale of drugs can often result in death, damage to health, and permanent addiction to the drugs involved.

Whereas very few people have died from having sex, the only damage to health i can see would be std's and most prostitutes wont do it without condoms, and lastly there's nothing addictive about having sex with a prostitute....

And too side with phototoxin, sex is something to be shared between two loving people in my opinion.

Foe me, there are two sides to sex.

1) There is SEX which is the pure act of having sex, just for the sake of it. Which you have on a one night stand, or with a prostitute. It means nothing, and you're unlikely to ever have sex with that person ever again.

2) There is making LOVE. Which is the sex that two people who care for each other have. There is a level of intimacy and trust, and this is something that few partners other than those in a relationship or marriage can attain.

To you, as it seems from what im reading, sex is just a commodity, which has no significance rather than the fact that it can be viewed as something as pathetic as a soruce of money. You must be just another idoliser of money I guess.....

Thats because you see what you want to see. I've spoken about prostitution, because that is what this topic is about. But there is very little in prostitution that remotely relates to love. That is the difference that you seem to find so hard to grasp. You seem to believe that people should have sex for only one possible reason. And any other aspect is dirty and seedy.

I give up. You show no desire to understand anybody or anything beyond your narrow little word of Black. Not even black and white, just black. Even when you talk about people being exploited its like they have some strange disease....

g5fd6ow0hseima

Deleted User wrote: »

Tori Prickly Landlady wrote: »

Ok Klaz, I dont know any personally so my view doesnt count in your eyes. You remind me of old men in a pub saying 'what does george hook know about rugby, he never played **** all' etc.... I basically have to see it with my own two eyes for me to have any sort of a meaningful say then. ]/quote]

Yup. But this isn't like rugby which is something completely exposed to society on a daily basis. This is something which is mostly hidden from public exposure beyond the occasional advertising in newspapers, or on the internet.



Common knowledge that certain areas are filthy places. That certain areas promote the lower end of prostitution. Just as there are areas in Thailand where the prostitution is more refined and of a much different kind. But you wouldn't be interested in that. All prostitution is seedy and dodgy in your eyes... yes?



Firstly I assume you're talking about addictive drugs like Hereoin and such, since the purchase of non-addictive drugs like cannabis are completely at the whims of the person who buys the drug. The sale of Addictive drugs is wrong in my eyes, but i'm quite happy to have a joint every few months or so to relax.

It is only if you are selling something that is addictive that you are capitalising on those who are in weaker / vulnerable positions. People go to prostitutes of their own free will, and there is nothing to force them to go back again. Cigarettes are more addictive and capitalising...



Again, very few prostitutes in Ireland are forced into the industry... but outside of these few, its hardly exploitation when they have other options of work, they earn far more than the average person, and work fewer hours...

As for the pathetic folk who go there? You really are a nasty piece of work aren't you? You continue to show a complete lack of understanding and sympathy for anybody outside your sphere of approval.



Why do you match up Heroin dealers & loan sharks? I'm a credit controller... Do you know what that is? I collect money for companies from other companies and people. Sometimes when people dont pay i instigate legal proceedings against them either for the products involved or the monies due on the services they received. So i understand what it is to offer loans to people, who just dont pay. So I'm not really finding all that sympathy in me for your loan shark aspect. The Dealer I find reprehensible, since i find heroin to be a particularly horrible drug after seeing addicts in the past.



No, because the sale of drugs can often result in death, damage to health, and permanent addiction to the drugs involved.

Whereas very few people have died from having sex, the only damage to health i can see would be std's and most prostitutes wont do it without condoms, and lastly there's nothing addictive about having sex with a prostitute....



Foe me, there are two sides to sex.

1) There is SEX which is the pure act of having sex, just for the sake of it. Which you have on a one night stand, or with a prostitute. It means nothing, and you're unlikely to ever have sex with that person ever again.

2) There is making LOVE. Which is the sex that two people who care for each other have. There is a level of intimacy and trust, and this is something that few partners other than those in a relationship or marriage can attain.



Thats because you see what you want to see. I've spoken about prostitution, because that is what this topic is about. But there is very little in prostitution that remotely relates to love. That is the difference that you seem to find so hard to grasp. You seem to believe that people should have sex for only one possible reason. And any other aspect is dirty and seedy.

I give up. You show no desire to understand anybody or anything beyond your narrow little word of Black. Not even black and white, just black. Even when you talk about people being exploited its like they have some strange disease....

On the drug dealing / loan sharking, I just relate it to this in the sense that it is people taking advantage of people in weak positions.

You speak of hookers making far more money / less hours. Again Greed. Greed - the very same reason people are getting shot in Dublin these days. What the **** is with this country? It seems the prostitution business has moved along with the times quite well - going from resorting throught financial need to simply doing so in order to top up on their already secure job etc. Its just typical Irish really. It shows we would stop at nothing in our quest for money. Wait a year or two, hopefully things will get bad, then half the country might end up on the clock. Wouldnt that be such a wonderful spectacle.


When you speak of drugs being addictive / dangerous, I still maintain dealing dealing is in the same bracket as prostitution in that its a certain target audience involved. You say its non-addictive etc. But in reality, those who avail of prostitutes regularly obviously develop an over relience. We've all being introduced to the rather new phenomenon thrown about lately (one I tend to pass off) of a sex addict . Those who feel the need to get off with hookers on a periodic basis differ little from those who feel the need to do drugs in order to socialise better. It can be such things as escapism etc. At first, prostitution is an outlet for the release of frustration on behalf of the patron, and then (only in the cases of those worse off, like eventual drug addicts) the relience develops, and then it gets dirty.

your views on sexual relations - I understand you 100%, just like most the lads I know. I would tend to be laughed at for holding such a romantic view of the whole thing in a society where its 'every lad's aim'....

You say drugs can result in death - well now driving cars result in death etc etc....

What would any of the prostitutes you happen to know think of the happenstance of the same married man coming to them week after week without fail. I know it sounds stereotypical what im saying, but this carry-on does happen, and id guess its not uncommon here in Ireland. Would she begin to feel a sense of pity for this chap? Or just keep ridin away whilst the money's flying in the door (akin to a dealer and the junky). You might now see where im getting at. Dirty business all across the board. Its ismply feeding off the less well off in a personal sense.

And what about my harsh view on the 'punters'. Why should I pretend otherwise in my feelings. Last resorts are only for certain people.