Prostitution

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote:

True, but I doubt someone would be telling people they are with an escort.

I have. Also my friends, if they have partaken in it, have said it. This isn't sitting around boasting about it, but rather an acknowledgement that there's noting wrong with being with an escort. Its not a big deal, despite what some people seem to think.

example: My parents don't exactly advertise that they have dentures. They may talk about it as a subject but they won't shout from a soapbox about it. Its not as if its a big deal afterall.

The reason one hires an escort is to pretend you didn't need to. You are hiring them to make it look like you didn't need to hire an escort.

No. That would be your reason if you hired an escort. My own reasons are listed above. :rolleyes:

[Wicknight, Have you ever been with an escort? No? Then how do you know the one reason? And if you have, then that reason would be your own not everyones......]

I think that is what Dublin means when he says paying someone to be your friend, to make it look like you have friends. If you actually did you wouldn't need to pay someone to be your friend. Which is kinda sad, but i suppose everyone needs to pretend now and again

Depends what you include as escorts. If you're talking about a high class escort and taking her for a dinner, a graduation, an award ceremony etc, then sure, there is a degree of pretending involved. However if you're paying for a 1 hour shag, the only pretending involved is to make the experience more enjoyable. The pretending doesn't last longer than when you're once again outside her door.

Only the very rich could afford to have escorts (being paid) to act as their friends. Look at the prices involved and you'll understand.

metrovelvet

metrovelvet wrote:

Its also a way for them to avoid fore-fore play and post coital expectations.

Wrong. Why skip foreplay? Your time, your choice what to do during it.

As for post coital expectations, what are they? [Lol. dont understand the phrase]

Also when you say escort - your talking a different status of whore than lets say a streetwalker right?

Yup. I've tried streetwalkers twice, and had awful experiences both times. turned me off that venue. So I'm talking about women that work from a house, brothel, or somewhere established. Costs more, but you get women with better personalities, and better skills. [Also safer from a safety standpoint]

So, if you found out that your wife once upon a time was an "escort" you'd be ok with that? since :

Escorts, are no different than us for the most part. The only difference is that they're willing to have sex for money. After all, we're willing to sell our limited [life] time in many cases for lower money than escorts can get. Maybe its us thats lying to ourselves, that suggests that sex has to be a wonderfully intimate, pure, and loving act.......?

I've never been married. However if I found that my Gf was doing so, I'd know that I wasn't keeping her happy. Why would she go to an escort? Because I'm not providing her with what she needs.........

Probably most people won't agree with me here, but in a relationship if that happens the problem is with both of us. With me, for not providing her needs, and her for not telling me she needs more.

But as I've said, I've never cheated, so finding my wife/gf doing so wouldn't be tolerated... But it would still be in part my own fault. :rolleyes: I don't think I've advocated married people or people in any relationship, cheating in any form escort or otherwise, anywhere in this thread.....

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote:

If you're talking about a high class escort and taking her for a dinner, a graduation, an award ceremony etc, then sure, there is a degree of pretending involved. However if you're paying for a 1 hour shag, the only pretending involved is to make the experience more enjoyable.

Thats not an escort, thats a prostitute. She isn't an escort unless she escorts you somewhere. And I seriously doubt if she is escorting you somewhere you will announce that she is an escort you are paying to be with you.

The reasons for seeing a prostitute are obviously going to be different than hiring an escort, but as Dublin pointed out they are both buying something that would normally come naturally (buying a date, buying friendship, buying sex). It is about the illusion of these things, rather than the reality.

I've no moral objections to that, as I said everyone needs to pretend now and again, but at the same time I think it is a little unhealthy for the person.

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote:

Wrong. Why skip foreplay? Your time, your choice what to do during it.

You seem to not understand what foreplay is. If its your choice then that isn't foreplay.

The idea of foreplay is for the other person, if you don't care about the other persons enjoyment, or couldn't tell if the other person is enjoying it or not (since they are paid to look like they are) then the idea of foreplay is nonsensical, it is a fantasy just like the rest of the sex

metrovelvet

I said fore-fore play. I also said it was an additional reason not the only reason to go to a whore.

Zombrex

metrovelvet wrote:

I said fore-fore play.

You mean dinner and a movie

Well Klaz already said one of the reasons he uses prostitutes is that he couldn't be arsed trying to "pick up" girls (sorting the ugly from the good looking ... wtf?)

To be honest his entire attitute towards women seems a little unhealthy, but I don't know him personally, his posts on here might be saber-rattling (Sezer on BB7 springs to mind). He certainly seems to be going out of his way to be provokative and demeaning to women.

metrovelvet

Wicknight wrote:

You mean dinner and a movie .

Yep. And the chat,the flirting, the making nice etc etc.

Wicknight wrote:

Well Klaz already said one of the reasons he uses prostitutes is that he couldn't be arsed trying to "pick up" girls (sorting the ugly from the good looking ... wtf?).

The lazy man's one night stand? How does it work with escorts, picking out the ugly from the good looking? Do they send you a catalogue to browse? Do you book and reserve with your visa?

Wicknight wrote:

To be honest his entire attitute towards women seems a little unhealthy, but I don't know him personally, his posts on here might be saber-rattling (Sezer on BB7 springs to mind). He certainly seems to be going out of his way to be provokative and demeaning to women.

Agreed.

And my question to you Klaz, was not about your girlfriend cheating, but about finding out your wife was once a whore and ****ed men for money. I guess you'd be ok with that?

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote:

Thats not an escort, thats a prostitute. She isn't an escort unless she escorts you somewhere. And I seriously doubt if she is escorting you somewhere you will announce that she is an escort you are paying to be with you.

No. The difference is in the service. Sure, if you want to look at the older meanings, and escort is someone you go somewhere with. Nowadays, an escort denotes a higher level of service. They're ALL prostitutes, but an escort suggests a better experience. Also Prostitute is considered a dirty word, mostly due to the negative emphasis church, state and society place upon it. Its like calling a gay person a "Fag".

And no you don't tell everyone. Just as women don't tell men they've got fake tan on.

The reasons for seeing a prostitute are obviously going to be different than hiring an escort, but as Dublin pointed out they are both buying something that would normally come naturally (buying a date, buying friendship, buying sex). It is about the illusion of these things, rather than the reality.

Not really. The escort is just more expensive than say a street walker. A street walker is less expensive than a massage & blowjob. They're all prostitues to some degree. Its the level of service provided that denotes the classification in modern terms.

I was in the Windmill in London. Hostess Bar. No sex involved. Just very beautiful women, very intelligent, speaking to you. You're getting off flirting with them. I wasn't pretending I was in love with any of them, nor were they. It was a desire fullfilled, to touch and be touched. But you're right some people would fool themselves into believing the experience was real. But they'd get an awful shock when their wallet was empty, and realise their mistake.

Prostitution is a wide area of experiences. Some people do indeed pretend, or even lie to themselves about what they're doing. Some people acknowledge what they're doing and enjoy themselves. Some people try it, hate it, and never do that experience again.

There is not one single classification for the people using these services or for the people providing the service.

If you haven't had an escort, or any other such experience, why are you so sure that users of these services are pretending this is real?

I've no moral objections to that, as I said everyone needs to pretend now and again, but at the same time I think it is a little unhealthy for the person.

Perhaps it is. Perhaps not. Depends on the individual, don't u think?

Personally I find very little to separate a one night stand from a club, from an escort experience....

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote:

You seem to not understand what foreplay is. If its your choice then that isn't foreplay.

The idea of foreplay is for the other person, if you don't care about the other persons enjoyment, or couldn't tell if the other person is enjoying it or not (since they are paid to look like they are) then the idea of foreplay is nonsensical, it is a fantasy just like the rest of the sex

Actually I do know what foreplay is. Just because she's selling her body, doesn't mean you can't try to give her pleasure. And foreplay is for both people. I actually enjoy it myself.

But then again, I have had experiences where I didn't care whether she enjoyed it or not. It was for my pleasure in those instances, and I went to an escort for that very reason.

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote:

You mean dinner and a movie

Well Klaz already said one of the reasons he uses prostitutes is that he couldn't be arsed trying to "pick up" girls (sorting the ugly from the good looking ... wtf?)

To be honest his entire attitute towards women seems a little unhealthy, but I don't know him personally, his posts on here might be saber-rattling (Sezer on BB7 springs to mind). He certainly seems to be going out of his way to be provokative and demeaning to women.

I said that at times I can't be bothered with the dating scene. Do you Never get tired of going out picking up women? Are there never times when you'd prefer to have sex, and have an early night? Guess not.

jesus. Just because I say I use escorts, I demean women? Where the fcuk did I demean women in this post? Nothing I've said has even hinted towards disrespecting women.

Wicknight. Have you EVER paid for sex?

(Sezer on BB7 springs to mind)

explain.

metrovelvet

metrovelvet wrote:

Yep. And the chat,the flirting, the making nice etc etc.

yup. Sometimes you can get sick of it.

The lazy man's one night stand? How does it work with escorts, picking out the ugly from the good looking? Do they send you a catalogue to browse? Do you book and reserve with your visa?

There's this wonderful thing called the Internet. Most times I'll arrange to have accurate photos for the escort. If they don't match the photo's when they arrive, I walk.

And my question to you Klaz, was not about your girlfriend cheating, but about finding out your wife was once a whore and ****ed men for money. I guess you'd be ok with that?

I don't have much of a problem with it, as long as its over. During my relationship we're only with each other. What went before doesn't really matter too much. You see, I don't have a problem with women having sex. Do you check the sexual histories of every woman you date? I know women that haven't sold themselves for money, and yet have shagged hundreds of men. Are they better or worse?

metrovelvet

Deleted User wrote:

I know women that haven't sold themselves for money, and yet have shagged hundreds of men. Are they better or worse?

I often wonder, if men have more respect for whores than they do for sluts.

New_Departure06

Adult prostitution (male and female prostitutes/escorts) should be legalised and taxed. It would bring in huge dividends for the health-service etc. I also feel that if there are 2 (or more ) consenting adults involved then what is the problem, provided there isn't a pimp taking their money or beating them up and forcing them into prostitution. A register of brothels/escort-agencies would help ensure the latter doesn't happen. They could go on the game without these bullies persecuting them.

metrovelvet

metrovelvet wrote:

I often wonder, if men have more respect for whores than they do for sluts.

I've never felt any lack of respect for whores, sluts, or any woman for that matter when it comes to sex. What does it really matter how many people a person has sex with? Does a woman who stays a virgin till 40, or a woman who has sex with only one man in her whole life have a better standing in peoples eyes?

metrovelvet

I meant because whores make money. At least the more upscale ones do.

Procrastinator

"Strange, since I can ignore them having to bleed. "


Klaz: What a strange thing to say. Like saying you can ignore someone having to pass faeces or cough or blow their nose.

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote:

No. The difference is in the service.

As I said, an escort is someone who escorts a gentleman to some where. The sex bit at the end happens in some cases, not in others. It is perfectly possible to buy an escort where no sex takes place. I knew a girl in the States who did this, men would hire her to go to dinners with them because it looked bad to turn up on thier own. There was never any sex involved, this was made clear from the very start, and my friend had her own minder (who normally waited in the car) to make sure nothing happened to her. Of course other escort services it is understand that you will get sex at the end of the night.

An escort who has sex with you at the end of the night is a prostitute, but an "escort" who doesn't escort you somewhere is just a prostitute.

Deleted User wrote:

Personally I find very little to separate a one night stand from a club, from an escort experience....

Well really there is. A young man learns a lot more about how to relate to women, where as with a prostitute a man learns nothing, everything is fake.

Not that I think a lot of one night stands are particularly healthy either, if the person is incapable of moving beyond one night stands.

Deleted User wrote:

Its like calling a gay person a "Fag".

It is nothing like calling a gay person a "Fag". That would be calling a prostitute a "whore"

Deleted User wrote:

And no you don't tell everyone. Just as women don't tell men they've got fake tan on.

Exactly, women are pretending to have a tan. Men with an escort are pretending to have a date for the night.

Deleted User wrote:

Actually I do know what foreplay is. Just because she's selling her body, doesn't mean you can't try to give her pleasure.

But as you said, you are in control, and she is selling something fake to you, be it foreplay or the sex itself.

You will never know if you actually are pleasing her or not, even if you did care if she was enjoying herself. Therefore foreplay is irrelivent. You can do it, but it is as fake as the sex itself.

Deleted User wrote:

I said that at times I can't be bothered with the dating scene. Do you Never get tired of going out picking up women? Are there never times when you'd prefer to have sex, and have an early night? Guess not.

I don't date women just for sex. I date women for the whole package, their personality, their companionship, for the mutual attraction.

You might find this strange to be believe, but purely ejaculating isn't the main reason I like women. If I have the "itch" as you describe it I have a **** while watching some porn, normally about once a day. A lot quicker, cheaper and safer than going out to find a prostitute.

Deleted User wrote:

Just because I say I use escorts, I demean women?

No, you are demean women by the way you refer to them in your posts.

Deleted User wrote:

Wicknight. Have you EVER paid for sex?

Well that is debateable, but i've never used a prostitute or escort if that is what you mean. As I said, if I'm feeling purely horny I have a ****. If I want female companionship I go out and find a girlfriend. Prostitution provides no service I would imagine I need.

Deleted User wrote:

explain.

<Places peudo-pyschoanalysis hat on>
I would imagine you are dismissive and demeaning to women because you don't understand them very well, and are quite frustrated by this. I would imagine this stems from your early adulthood where you say you were very shy and arkward around them. This probably lead to some confusion, frustration and resentment, along with a large amount of embrassement. You now hide this behind a air of dismission, you dismiss women rather than attempting to understand them.

You say you are simply tired of women, and dating women, which is an attempt to turn frustration on the part of lack of "success" with women in the traditional sense (as judged by society) into a act of control. So you are convincing yourself that you aren't being unsuccessful, you are simply tiring of playing their game, you are opting out, rather than faililng. This is an emotional defense mechanism, an attempt to regain control, which could possibily also explain the gravitation towards prostitutes, which is relationships with women where you are in complete control, and do not run the risk of rejection or embrassement while still reaffirming, sub-consciously at least, that you are sexual active, that you are attractive to others etc.

I notice you constantly referer to prostitutes in the highest praise, while you referer to women in general in a more derogatory fashion, which would indicate that you are, at some level, still using sex to reaffirm self-worth (as everyone does), and it is necessary to make the prostitutes out as being great people otherwise it would undermine your self-worth by being with them.

Sezer on Big Brother (don't know if you have been following) was a wealth of similar defensive mechanisms towards women, who it was clear he really didn't understand at all.
<Takes off hat>
Of couse I don't know you at all, all I am basing this on is your posts, and your apparent attitude towards women. It could be completely wrong, as I imagine you will say it is.

Snickers Man

DadaKopf wrote:

In terms of her writings sounding crazy, they might, except that her analytical approach was inspired by modern psychoanalysis and discourse analysis, particuarly Edward Said's Orientalism. So you just gotta get into it.

Anyway, for more on Dworkin's views, here is a 1995 speech on prostitution.

I remember her on appearing with Gaybo on the Late Late way back in the 1980s. She was extremely intelligent and articulate on the topic of pornography but much of what appears in 'Intercourse' can be summarised as man-hating paranoia. The very act of Intercourse is seen as male violation of women, regardless of the circumstances. Posession of a penis and a heterosexual sex drive automatically brands one as a rapist, exploiter, dominator and fiend.

A mirror image, in other words, of the Catholic conundrum that promotes the ideal woman as both a virgin and mother. To be a female virgin is to be free of 'original sin' and therefore any departure from that state is deemed to be sinful and degrading. (OK I know the Church has a more subtle take on this but translated into common parlance, this is the brutal summary with which many generations were familiar).

Similarly, Dworkin may have defended herself against the charge that she was a man-hating loon by pointing to the male partners she voluntarily took in her maturity, but the violence of her condemnation of male sexuality in 'Intercourse' and her appearance as a caricature 'Fat feminist in dungarees' (which she was) hardly made her ideas conducive to acceptance by ordinary decent males.

Zombrex

Snickers Man wrote:

She was extremely intelligent and articulate on the topic of pornography but much of what appears in 'Intercourse' can be summarised as man-hating paranoia.

I would agree with that.

She points out a lot of interesting things. For example male sexuality is really the only sexuality presented in modern media up until very recently (feminism is largely to blame for that in my view) and there is of course a strong link between voilence and the act of sex (though modern view is that rape is not sexual in nature, it is not about sex, it is about violence and control)

But at the same time I think her problem was that she really just didn't get men. She doesn't understand us, at all, and instead of attempting to draw more down to earth reality she concludes that all men are, at some level, the raping oppressing monsters she sees out on the extreme.

metrovelvet

Amd just for fun and a different voice, Camille Paglia's perspective.

http://desires.com/1.2/sex/docs/paglia2.html

Excerpt:
Feminists like to quote these absolutely specious statistics, a typical trick of the feminist movement of the last twenty years. For example, they'll say the majority of prostitutes have been sexually abused as children. But there's no evidence for this! The most successful prostitutes are invisible, because the sign of a prostitute's success is her absolute blending with the environment. She's so shrewd, she never becomes visible. She never gets in trouble. She has command of her life, and her clients. The ones who get into the surveys have drug problems or psychological problems. They're the ones who were sexually abused. Feminists are using amateurs to condemn a whole profession. This is appalling!

It exists because men's sexuality is not fully absorbed in marriage. In fact, the problems of being married produce other sexual needs -- not for all men certainly, but most. Prostitution exists for sexuality to be free from the duties and obligations of home, for the man to be free as a sexual agent. A lot of the sex which an ordinary gay man has is very close to what a prostitute has with a straight man. It has to do with keeping the sex impulse free

Procrastinator

Procrastinator wrote:

"Strange, since I can ignore them having to bleed. "


Klaz: What a strange thing to say. Like saying you can ignore someone having to pass faeces or cough or blow their nose.

What I meant was that I have no choice in my shaking, like most women have no choice in their time of the month.. It was a foolish comment, not really all that applicable to this conversation.

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote:

As I said, an escort is someone who escorts a gentleman to some where. The sex bit at the end happens in some cases, not in others. It is perfectly possible to buy an escort where no sex takes place. I knew a girl in the States who did this, men would hire her to go to dinners with them because it looked bad to turn up on thier own. There was never any sex involved, this was made clear from the very start, and my friend had her own minder (who normally waited in the car) to make sure nothing happened to her. Of course other escort services it is understand that you will get sex at the end of the night.

I understand that sex is not a requisite to having an escort. Many services provided by escorts from Lapdancing to body massages don't involve sex as such. Its just that the common perception about getting an escort revolves around sex, as this discussion was progressing.

And I didn't agree with you that an escort is someone that escorts you somewhere. You see what you want to see.

An escort who has sex with you at the end of the night is a prostitute, but an "escort" who doesn't escort you somewhere is just a prostitute.

Again I'll ask. have you had either an escort or a "hooker"? When you have, then you can tell me the difference in the service provided, because you'll know firsthand.

Well really there is. A young man learns a lot more about how to relate to women, where as with a prostitute a man learns nothing, everything is fake.

I go out on a regular basis, both to have fun and to meet women in clubs/bars. I learnt about how to relate to women through that and through my female friends. Whereas I learnt many different things from escorts. What I learnt from both areas, has had use in my life.

Not that I think a lot of one night stands are particularly healthy either, if the person is incapable of moving beyond one night stands.

Who said they weren't? Just as who implied that users of escorts weren't capable of moving on and having healthy relationships.....

It is nothing like calling a gay person a "Fag". That would be calling a prostitute a "whore"

Spot on. better example.

Exactly, women are pretending to have a tan. Men with an escort are pretending to have a date for the night.

maybe so. Maybe they're enjoying having a stunning woman with them. Either way its going to be personal to them, and stereotyping eveyone that has an escort as pretending or living in an illusion doesn't ring right.

But as you said, you are in control, and she is selling something fake to you, be it foreplay or the sex itself.

Fake? How is it fake? I'm seeking a service, and she's providing that service. Nothing fake about that.

You will never know if you actually are pleasing her or not, even if you did care if she was enjoying herself. Therefore foreplay is irrelivent. You can do it, but it is as fake as the sex itself.

You're dead set on the idea that escorts don't get pleasure from sex, and any interaction with their customers is fake. Lovely. I'm amazed by your depth of knowledge into the subject, and seem ignorant of any of the signs that a woman is enjoying sex. But you're right. She could indeed fake it, just as someones girlfriend could fake it.

I don't date women just for sex. I date women for the whole package, their personality, their companionship, for the mutual attraction.

So do I. But we were talking about sex, not the flirting or having a meaningful relationship. If you want me to discuss that, we can.

You might find this strange to be believe, but purely ejaculating isn't the main reason I like women. If I have the "itch" as you describe it I have a **** while watching some porn, normally about once a day. A lot quicker, cheaper and safer than going out to find a prostitute.

You might find it hard to believe that I enjoy womens company for themselves, and I also date for their company. That I'm not a raving sex maniac. You seem to have missed my saying that I get an escort only a few times a year.....

No, you are demean women by the way you refer to them in your posts.

Examples......... [Apart from the period one, which I know abt and fully agree]

Well that is debateable, but i've never used a prostitute or escort if that is what you mean. As I said, if I'm feeling purely horny I have a ****. If I want female companionship I go out and find a girlfriend. Prostitution provides no service I would imagine I need.

I underlined it because I'm wondering where your insightful knowledge about what people going to escorts think or feel. Wicknight, you make such definite judgements, and I wonder if perhaps you need a little bit of experience first before you do.

If you don't want to use prostitution thats your choice. I don't think less of you because of it. Why do you feel the need to lower the people that do enjoy the service?

<Places peudo-pyschoanalysis hat on>
I would imagine you are dismissive and demeaning to women because you don't understand them very well, and are quite frustrated by this. I would imagine this stems from your early adulthood where you say you were very shy and arkward around them. This probably lead to some confusion, frustration and resentment, along with a large amount of embrassement. You now hide this behind a air of dismission, you dismiss women rather than attempting to understand them.

Thats alot of assumptions. Confusion, frustration, resentment, and embarrassment? Yup, I got the frustration and embarrassment parts at stages in my life. But I've never felt resentment about it. I learnt and adapted. And I now have success where before I had failure. For the most part. Sometimes not.

You say you are simply tired of women, and dating women, which is an attempt to turn frustration on the part of lack of "success" with women in the traditional sense (as judged by society) into a act of control.

Wow. You can't even read what I say, before making up new stuff.

I notice you constantly referer to prostitutes in the highest praise, while you referer to women in general in a more derogatory fashion, which would indicate that you are, at some level, still using sex to reaffirm self-worth (as everyone does), and it is necessary to make the prostitutes out as being great people otherwise it would undermine your self-worth by being with them.

Again. More assumptions. I've asked for examples of where I demeaned women. Provide some before you go haring off making judgements about me based on what? I have indeed "praised" escorts a bit, but I'm at a loss where I've placed them higher than "normal" women.......

Sezer on Big Brother (don't know if you have been following) was a wealth of similar defensive mechanisms towards women, who it was clear he really didn't understand at all.
<Takes off hat>
Of couse I don't know you at all, all I am basing this on is your posts, and your apparent attitude towards women. It could be completely wrong, as I imagine you will say it is.

Spot on. I am saying its wrong.

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote:

I go out on a regular basis, both to have fun and to meet women in clubs/bars. I learnt about how to relate to women through that and through my female friends. Whereas I learnt many different things from escorts. What I learnt from both areas, has had use in my life.

What do you learn about women from prostitutes?

Deleted User wrote:

Who said they weren't?

Who is "they"? I said if a person isn't able to, speaking in a general statement sense. Are you talking about someone specific?

Deleted User wrote:

Either way its going to be personal to them, and stereotyping eveyone that has an escort as pretending or living in an illusion doesn't ring right.

They are pretending. That is not a stereotype, it is simply the reality of hiring an escort, just like pretending you have a tan is the reality of putting on fake tan.

Deleted User wrote:

Fake? How is it fake?

It is fake because the woman is having sex with you not because she wants to but because you are paying her to. Her entire "performance" is fake. Most likely she doesn't enjoy it. You might think she is, but then that goes back to her faking it.

Deleted User wrote:

You're dead set on the idea that escorts don't get pleasure from sex, and any interaction with their customers is fake.

I find it highly unlikely. What I find more intersting is that you are convinced they do. Would you be prepared to have sex with a prostitute if you knew she hated having sex with you?

Deleted User wrote:

seem ignorant of any of the signs that a woman is enjoying sex.

Klaz, you are paying her to look like she is enjoying it :rolleyes:

You say it isn't fake, but you don't know that. How many prostitutes would still be in business if they acted like they didn't like having sex with you?

Deleted User wrote:

But you're right. She could indeed fake it, just as someones girlfriend could fake it.

True, but you would imagine if your girlfriend didn't like being with you she wouldn't be your girlfriend. Prostitutes can despise you and still have sex with you because you pay them.

As I said before, any idea that you have that the prostitute you are with likes you, likes having sex with you etc is probably fake because you are paying her to fake it. Of course you probably won't know either way, so the question is does it really matter to you if it is or not? I though it wouldn't matter to you, since you seemed before quite cool and matter of face (it is a business arrangement so you can ejaculate) but you now seem quite hung up on the idea of the prostitute enjoying herself, so maybe it does.

Deleted User wrote:

So do I. But we were talking about sex, not the flirting or having a meaningful relationship. If you want me to discuss that, we can.

I don't seperate the two. As I said if I want sex I want the woman there too, flirty, playing, enjoying herself, mutual attraction and all that. I don't want to be just rambing a hole with a woman pretending to be enjoying it. If I'm feeling horny I have a ****.

Deleted User wrote:

You seem to have missed my saying that I get an escort only a few times a year.....

Why then do you bother? Why not just have a ****?

Deleted User wrote:

I underlined it because I'm wondering where your insightful knowledge about what people going to escorts think or feel.

From the sexual needs and urges we all have. Or do you think that the people needing to go to prostitutes have some special sexual need or desire others don't possess?

Deleted User wrote:

Wicknight, you make such definite judgements, and I wonder if perhaps you need a little bit of experience first before you do.

What do you believe me going to a prostitute would enlighten me about?

Deleted User wrote:

Why do you feel the need to lower the people that do enjoy the service?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "lower the people"?

Deleted User wrote:

Thats alot of assumptions. Confusion, frustration, resentment, and embarrassment? Yup, I got the frustration and embarrassment parts at stages in my life. But I've never felt resentment about it. I learnt and adapted. And I now have success where before I had failure. For the most part. Sometimes not.

How do you define "success?" Do you mean happiness, or do you mean notches on the bed posts. Your "success" with women seems quite important to you, judging by this and earlier posts, which is exactly what I said in my previous post. Do you disagree?

Deleted User wrote:

Wow. You can't even read what I say, before making up new stuff.

I can read what you post quite well thanks ...

Deleted User wrote:

Again. More assumptions. I've asked for examples of where I demeaned women. Provide some before you go haring off making judgements about me based on what? I have indeed "praised" escorts a bit, but I'm at a loss where I've placed them higher than "normal" women.......

You constantly referere to women in derogotory terms

"sometimes you get tired of having to go out (most of the night), mingle, sort out the bitches and ugly girls, and finally having to decide."

You decide who you pick? It sounds like you are picking a chocolate bar.

From After Hours -

"I've never been someone that sleeps with women that I believe are below my standard"

"Most of Irish women look like lesbians already."

"Its just that Irish women know that we (irish men) eill continue to accept them regardless of how they behave or look"

"I don't think I've met enough good looking irish women to gain a lack of confidence about them"

And all that was from one thread. Klaz your entire attitude towards women expressed in your posts seems derogotory and objectifing. You speak of women as commodities, there for you, with no apparent respect for them on any level except they should be happy to get you (Sezer syndrome, as I said)

I can only assume (hope?) that this is just a defense mechanism, based on your earlier life dealing with some (your "failures" as you put it before), and that your real attitudes towards women are better in the real world. But my original post still stands, in fact I'm even more convinced of it now than before.

simu

Eh, it's extremely easy to convince a man you're having the best sex of your life tbh. Anyway, this thread isn't supposed to be psychological analysis of klaz, is it?!

Zombrex

simu wrote:

Eh, it's extremely easy to convince a man you're having the best sex of your life tbh. Anyway, this thread isn't supposed to be psychological analysis of klaz, is it?!

True, and I'm probably going to incure the wrath of the mods if I continue, so I think I'll go watch a movie instead ..

Wicknight, i was responding to your comments individually and then I realised "why bother"? You're here posting your opinions as fact about a subject you have no personal experience of. You're categorising the users of prostitution when you've never partaken of it.

I find it funny that you talk about me demeaning women, when you can't see that escorts can be women too while they're escorts at same time. You seem to believe that all men that don't follow the traditional ways of life are wrong, and you're right. Lovely.

Frankly I'm wondering why the hell you're bothering to post to this thread at all considering you've already made up your mind, based upon your instincts....

You constantly referere to women in derogotory terms

Constantly? really. So all my posts put women down.... right.

"sometimes you get tired of having to go out (most of the night), mingle, sort out the bitches and ugly girls, and finally having to decide."

So when you go out you never meet either bitches or ugly girls. You don't seek out the women with personality, a sense of humor, and that look good? Strange.

You decide who you pick? It sounds like you are picking a chocolate bar.

Yes, I decide who I pick. Don't you? Or do you stand at the railing watching women go by, wondering why OH why don't they approach you? Sure I pick. I pick women that I appraoch to speak to based upon their looks, how they interact with their friends etc. no more or less than most guys when they approach a stranger in a bar/club. Whether I succeed or not, dpends on whether I fullfill her desires at that time.

From After Hours -

"I've never been someone that sleeps with women that I believe are below my standard"[/quote

This is from the thread "Crazy standards of irish men" isn't it? A thread which takes the piss of conventional norms of women in Irish society? If I had posted these opinions on the politics or humanities board I'd have been deadly serious, but after hours? Thats a laugh.

I've never believed in sleeping with women i don't find attractive. i.e. below my standard. Some men don't have a problem with it, but I have to like a woman before I have sex with her. Nothing derogratory about that.

"Most of Irish women look like lesbians already."

And many do. Too much makeup. Too many burgers. Too much alcohol. Whatever. Many women do indeed look like the traditional ugly lesbians. But I was wrong, most Irish women don't look like this.

"Its just that Irish women know that we (irish men) eill continue to accept them regardless of how they behave or look"

Am I wrong? Thats not derogratory. Women will do what they want.

"I don't think I've met enough good looking irish women to gain a lack of confidence about them"

Personal preference. I don't find most irish women all that attractive. However I have such problems from the lack of confidence when faced with approaching an attractibe spanish or Italian woman.

And all that was from one thread. Klaz your entire attitude towards women expressed in your posts seems derogotory and objectifing. You speak of women as commodities, there for you, with no apparent respect for them on any level except they should be happy to get you (Sezer syndrome, as I said)

I can only assume (hope?) that this is just a defense mechanism, based on your earlier life dealing with some (your "failures" as you put it before), and that your real attitudes towards women are better in the real world. But my original post still stands, in fact I'm even more convinced of it now than before.

Wicknight, we've clashed on this before. You seem to place women on high pedestals, and any opinion that lowers them from that place of godhood, is a major insult to them.

Be convinced of what you want. You've already shown in this thread alone that you're prepared to make up your mind without any real knowledge.

metrovelvet

Wait - arent most prostitutes lesbians anyhow, due to being desensitised to men?

And fyi - not all lesbians look like bull dikes. Some of them look like, you guessed it-prostitutes!

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote:

Constantly? really. So all my posts put women down.... right.

Most of them, at some point in the post, refererr to women in general in derogotory terms.

It funny that when I quote you back something like "most Irish women look like lesbians" you response is "a lot do". You don't seem to understand what derogotory means.

Deleted User wrote:

I find it funny that you talk about me demeaning women, when you can't see that escorts can be women too while they're escorts at same time.

Klaz you seem to have this remarkable dilussion that you are in some way helping the prostitute by buying her, or giving her something she wants or needs, either enjoyment, power, money what ever. You seemed to have moved on from your earlier cooler, more matter of fact statements.

You never answered my question, would you have sex with a prostitute if you knew she didn't enjoy, or even hated, having sex with you ? Would you care? Or is it a requirement for your enjoyment that you believe she is also enjoying it?

I'm not really interested in the answer, only that you yourself consider the question.

Deleted User wrote:

You seem to believe that all men that don't follow the traditional ways of life are wrong, and you're right. Lovely.

I'm making no moral judgement on prostitution, or those who use prostitutes.

I'm simply attempting to cut through the rather silly statements that are posted here about the subject (see above quote) and get to the truth of the matter.

I would argue that instead of having real world indepth knowledge of the subject because you have slept with prostitutes, you are in fact far too close to the subject to be objective, because you seem to have come up with a number of ideas (the prostitute loves the sex, they enjoy sleeping with me, it empowers them, they have a good time, they are all nice women) that seem to be attempts to justify to yourself. I don't need to slept with a prostitute to know they couldn't possibly all be true all of the time.

Just as i would view with suspection any poster that made completely damning statements about prostitutes ("They all us drugs!" "They are all sex slaves!" "They were all abused as children!"), I equally view with suspection posts that are falling over themselves to sing the praises prostitution. The first question I ask is why?

As I said before, everyone is hung up on this subject, on both sides.

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote:

Klaz you seem to have this remarkable dilussion that you are in some way helping the prostitute by buying her, or giving her something she wants or needs, either enjoyment, power, money what ever.

Where did I say or even suggest that? All I'm doing is buying the service/product that she provides. I'm not under any illusions, as to what that service entails or whether it actually means anything in the big scheme of things. So the only thing I'm providing her, is the only thing she's asking for. i.e. money.

You never answered my question, would you have sex with a prostitute if you knew she didn't enjoy it, or even hated it?
I'm not really interested in the answer, only that you yourself consider the question.

ok. Considered it. In fact I had a long reply, but figured in the end the following would be the best answer: No, I wouldn't.

I'm making no moral judgement on prostitution, or those who use prostitutes.

You're making judgments regardless of moral implications. You've looked into this thread and made judgements about both the users of prostitutes and the prostitutes themselves. If you want I can provide examples.... And this is pertinent to the topic, since its common here in Ireland about this subject.

I'm simply attempting to cut through the rather silly statements that are posted here about the subject (see above quote) and get to the truth of the matter

.

Really? Then why do you persist in twisting what I post to this thread. I highlight a few below.

I would argue that instead of having real world indepth knowledge of the subject because you have slept with prostitutes, you are in fact far too close to the subject to be objective, because you seem to have come up with a number of ideas (the prostitute loves the sex, they enjoy sleeping with me, it empowers them, they have a good time, they are all nice women) that seem to be attempts to justify to yourself. I don't need to slept with a prostitute to know they couldn't possibly all be true all of the time.

And I've never said that they're true all the time. I've said that they're still women regardless of being escorts. I've said that I wouldn't trust any escort that I've paid. I've said that they're only interested in making money. Sure, I've had friends who were escorts, and I may have trusted them, but only when I hadn't bought any of their services. I'm not trying to convince anyone that prostitutes are all wonderful people. I wouldn't, because I don't believe it myself. However, I have met some lovely prostitutes in the past.

And I'm not saying that you need to have slept with prostitues to know whether they're all true all the time. No Segment of society is true all the time. No, My reason for raising your lack of personal experience with prostitutes is about your absolute opinions about how both escorts & customers behave, and how they interact with each other.

because you seem to have come up with a number of ideas (the prostitute loves the sex, they enjoy sleeping with me, it empowers them, they have a good time, they are all nice women) that seem to be attempts to justify to yourself.

I haven't asked for approval from you for my going to any escorts in my life. I've never looked for approval from anyone for that. Simply because I see nothing wrong about it.

Your examples:
1). the prostitute loves the sex. -- I never said that all escorts love the sex. I've said that some of them do. That I have met escorts as friends who have said that they enjoy it. And why shouldn't they? Do you believe that there are no escorts out there that enjoy their profession? But am I naive enough to believe all escorts out there mean the exaggerated moans they make? Nope.
2). they enjoy sleeping with me - Again, never said it. I said I try to give her pleasure, or give her a good experience. In no place did I say that all escorts I've been with enjoyed either sleeping or having sex with me.
3). it empowers them - Where the hell did you get this from?
4). they have a good time - They? The escorts I've been with for the most part seem to have had a good time. They mightn't have received wonderful & meaningful sex, but they can enjoy themselves. (Making the best of their chosen profession) . But I'm not fooling myself about this. As I've said before they're there for the money. I've also said that anyone that believes there's something more than that business transaction, is going to realise their mistake after they leave the room. But they (escorts) may indeed have a good time.
5). they are all nice women - Again. Absolutes. We're talking about people here, which you seem to forget. They're not all anything. Some are nice women, some are freaks, some are sharks etc.

You seem to deal in black or white, and when something doesn't fall into that easy distinction you move it into one. Those 5 comments above are just a sample of how you've distorted what I've said. You've ignored previous comments (like my saying I only have escorts a few times a year) so that I may suit your own views.

Just as i would view with suspection any poster that made completely damning statements about prostitutes ("They all us drugs!" "They are all sex slaves!" "They were all abused as children!"), I equally view with suspection posts that are falling over themselves to sing the praises of prostitutes. The first question I ask is why?

Perhaps you should ask yourself why you need to modify or ignore what I've actually said, first.

As I said before, everyone is hung up on this subject, on both sides.

Really? I just can't stand seeing absolutes being applied to the subject. I've seen both sides of escorts, good and bad. I haven't hidden that and just taken the good. However, I'm not going to agree with someone that needs to place a nice handy label on all customers or all escorts. The world isn't made up of black and white. The world is a place of shadows. Probably prostitution more so than most other areas in life, simply because of the stigma associated with it.